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Crafting and Resources: Historical Wood, National Products and Shipbuilding

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Captains,
I had grand plans of completing this before full release of the game, but I simply do not have the time. What I do have is about 75% complete overall and is enough to give the developers some ideas and inspiration of how to flesh the game out, add some color and flavor without having to rework mechanics.
 
The entire approach here is to:

  1. Add many more things to harvest and more things to craft, if you want to
  2. Nothing that would force a player with limited time to have to do in order to play the game.

 
However those who do choose to put the time and effort into the deeper crafting can get some unique rewards and like this epic open world map deserves, some deeper age of sail immersion.
 
 
Historical Resources:
The concept here is one I proposed last year, but this one is further refined. 
 
There are two types of resources, the first type are:

  1. Resources that naturally exist and can be harvested in the Caribbean, North America and South America.
  2. Resources that are imported from Europe, India, Africa and elsewhere.

These can only be purchased in ports of the nation that either produces it in their homeland or dominates the trade of that product by opening a building called Trade Office. This gives each nations some unique and valuable products that they can trade or use; no one will have a resources that gives it an advantage in battle however.
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T384qrwqg0CWYGlZDJ0z1jP_n9bcTI6PWaSS6rnqfsQ/edit?usp=sharing
 
A more detailed (but unfinished) proposal below here, this one has 2 tabs and in tab 1 you can see the depth of crafting that would be available. The major change here is the ability to craft items that are not related to shipbuilding. Huge profits would be made taking the time to create 'Estate Goods' for example and hauling them to a capital or regional port of your ally. Or one could make spars and sell them on contract across the Caribbean. One could specialize in the fur trade, etc. It's all about choices and immersion.
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XomSxvgZ6e2GAg0ZvOjfM3TqZR94-1iGbMJbVODoU-I/edit?usp=sharing
 
 
 
Wood:
 
I have proposed adding 4 new types of wood, splitting Teak into 2 historical  types and Oak into 5 historical types. Click the link and it will make sense. I spent a lot of time over the last year researching and read primarily papers from the 19th and early 20th century on shipbuilding woods from the 18th to early 19th century. I love researching and working with wood in real life. 

(Note: Compass wood is not a wood, this may surprise some of you, but others already know this. Compass is a cut from a natural curve in a tree. Not every tree can produce compass timber. Frames and knees and other crucial parts were made from naturally grown curves. All the oaks produce the most compass timber due to the way they grow. Pines and Firs not as much. The British suffered a compass crisis so bad that several 74s sat unfinished in the shipyards for want of it in the late 18th century. You simply cannot grow a forest of compass wood.
 
This proposal has your forest 'buildings' producing compass cuts based on quality of forest you have (Prime, Good or Sparse), the level (1, 2 or 3) and the tree type. Low percent productions would be 5% (Sparse level 1 Fir), top percent would be 25% (Prime, Level 3 Oaks). This makes compass cut frames more valuable as they should be!
 
No panic if you have no compass cuts, thanks to a British shipbuilder who helped the Royal Navy out in it's crisis, there is a way to make Laminated Frames. These are not as strong as naturally curved timbers, but will do in a pinch, but you should take penalties to your HP and Planking if using Laminated Frames)
 
 
 
Main reasons for this wood proposal:
More historical choices and customization to match your style, sailing and combat needs while staying within the limits of the attribute range that is currently set between Fir and Live Oak.
 
More types of wood to make shipbuilding more detailed and immersive. We will be building decks, keels, spars etc. The labor hours can be adjusted with this proposal so that crafting a frigate takes just as many as it does now, or it can be adjusted to where it takes longer, the devs can adopt this without overhauling that part, or they can choose to overhaul that part, making ships more valuable, it is flexible.
 
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HRg4q7yxLlViQ6Ua5TP7wtz-xEHd6EK6en-ILdb_OVQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

A unfinished write up on the wood types:

 

 

 

A  Full  and  Thorough

Proposal  of  Wood

Crafting and Shipbuilding in

Naval Action

Bibliography

The Shipbuilders' Complete Guide; Comprehending the Theory and Practice of Naval Architecture, Charles Frederick Partington, 1825

Ship-building in Iron and Wood, Andrew Murray, 1863

Descriptions of various plans for the improvement of naval architecture, J.W. Norie, 1833

Ship of the Line: Design, Construction and Fittings, Brian Lavery, 1984

Russian Warships in the Age of Sail 1696-1860: Design, Construction, Careers and Fate, Eduard Sozaev, John Tredrea, 1987

Papers on naval architecture and other subjects connected with naval science, William Morgan, Augustin Francis Bullock Creuze, G.B. Whittaker, 1827

Wood: a manual of the natural history and industrial applications of the timbers of commerce, George Simmons Boulger, 1902

Naval Shipbuilding in the Age of Sail, Phillip MacDougal, 1902

 

Introduction

Currently Naval Action has but six wood types for shipbuilding: Fir, Teak, Oak, Live Oak, Red Wood and Compass Wood (Compass actually being a type of cut not a specie).

Coming from a background of roughly 30 years of general reading about the fighting age of sail and, over the last two years, in depth, targeted research (for prior proposals for NA), and through many conversations with other players such as DeReyuter, AKD, Alex Conner, Sir Cunningham, Maturin, Grizwald and KingEmu, I have identified and settled on fourteen new types of wood that were commonly used and/or prized during the 18th and 19th centuries, for their various qualities in different parts of the ship, for different nations, in different parts of the era, that would add depth and realism to Naval Action without upsetting game play and in fact adding more color to it.

 

 

One

The current Fir and Teak we know in the game now would become four: Rangoon Teak and Malabar Teak; Fir becomes Riga Fir and Pitch Pine; Oak becomes four types of Oak: Provence Oak, Sussex Oak, Kurland Oak and White Oak.

Live Oak remains unchanged and there are five other entirely new woods added: Cedar, Norway Spruce, Elm, Cuban Mahogany and Scots Larch.

These woods were not chosen at random and their use, names, qualities and prevalence were carefully researched in depth in books listed in the bibliography; the statements chiefly from the 19th century were given precedence if there were conflicting information.

Fifteen types of wood in all are considered the optimum for enhancing crafting and immersion while not affecting current game play.

Six is too few and while we should not have forty types either even though that is possible, one will find references to several types of Elm for the keel, many types of Pine, of Cedar, but each of these was selected for it’s best representation as one of the archetypal woods used.

 

 

 

Two

The major proposals are summed up as such:

·     The keel becomes a key element during crafting and requires Wyche Elm, Pitch Pine

·     The crafting of the planks would be made from historical wood types, not just Oak: Pitch Pine, Riga Fir, Cuban Mahogany, Rangoon Teak, Malabar Teak, Provence Oak, Sussex Oak, Kurland Oak, White Oak

·     The wood types of frames and planks would combine together to determine the speed and planking effects (detailed chart below)

·     The pros and cons of Live Oak, -2.5% speed and +10% planking bonus, is now the sum of Live Oak Frames and White Oak planks; at the other end of the scale, Pitch Pine frames and Pitch Pine planks are the only thing lighter than Riga Fir (equal the current Fir, 2.5%/-5%) and add 2.7% to speed and -6% to planking. The rest of the possible wood types in between Pine/Pine and Live/White for frames and planks only serve to allow for more customization, they all have bonuses and negatives and fall within the spectrum.

·     Planks must be made of equal or lighter wood than the frames, Kurland Oak or White Oak was not planked over Pitch Pine etc.

·     The construction of spars is now a major component of shipbuilding and requires one of the following: Norway Spruce, Scots Larch, Pitch Pine or Riga Fir, and have a very minor effect on top of the frame and plank choices.

·     The sum of new key elements of construction are as such: Keel, Decks, Spars, Rails and Bulwarks, Nails and Dowels

·     The player can choose to use ‘made masts’ instead of purchasing whole timber masts and can save considerable labor and costs, but will see hit points lowered.

·     The player can choose to select trees that compass cuts can be made from for the frames and the knees (a percentage of what he harvests) or he can use laminate construction techniques, again saving labor and cost and losing HP

·      Knees can be constructed from any type of wood that a frame can be made from, but must be equal to or one wood type lighter than the frame choice. It has no effect on speed or HP. This allows a player making a ship out of Provence Oak frames to use any wood type on hand that is at least Malabar Teak or stronger.

 

Wood Species

Pitch Pine

Pinus rigida, Pinus resinosa

A group of resinous softwood pines of North America which are abundant and produce long, straight timbers that are used for every imaginable purpose in shipbuilding: tar, spars, keels, keelsons, frames, planking and decking. In game this represents the group of similar pines that also grow in the Bahamas and Antilles.

Norway Spruce

Pinus Abies

A very common tree used for spars, lighter but not as strong as Riga Fir. “This tree grows in Scotland, Norway and other northern countries It is very generally used in the mercantile navy for yards and top masts and also in the royal navy for the smaller description of spars and boats masts. They are tough close-grained and elastic but are very full of large knots and care is therefore required in selecting them. The timber also is soft and far from durable it having very little appearance of resin. The Norwegian spruce grows frequently to a large size.”

 

Riga Fir

Pinus Silvestris

“The most valuable of all the varieties of fir timber is that which is called Riga Fir. It is the red wood pine of north of Europe, the Pinus Silvestris, which although spread over a very large portion of the globe appears to flourish in its greatest perfection in the forests of Lithuania and Poland where the cold is severe and the soil generous. Riga fir is not only extremely flexible and elastic but is by far the most durable of all the pine timbers and as long as it could be procured of sufficient size it was generally used in the royal navy not only for topmasts but also to build the lower or standard masts.”

 

Cuban Mahogany

Swietenia mahogani

Cuban Mahogany is the product of the West Indies, and the Santisima Trinidad was constructed primarily of it at Havana. The Finest comes from St, Domingo, the next Cuba where it is abundant and the least from Honduras. Also called Spanish Mahogany, it “may be stated to be a durable and valuable timber both for ship building and general purposes it varies so very much in texture and quality that the utmost care and judgment are necessary in its selection There are many well authenticated instances of the extraordinary strength and durability of ships built almost exclusively of mahogany the most famous being that of the Spanish 80 gun ship Gibraltar captured by the English in 1757 and broken up at the age of 100 years when all her timbers were found to be perfectly sound This however only proves the excellent quality of carefully selected Spanish mahogany the Gibraltar having been built at Havannah it being equally well known that light porous swamp mahogany or indeed any of inferior quality is highly treacherous and unsafe when employed for the timbering of a ship. It is an error to suppose that all Honduras mahogany is light and spongy, the best quality of this timber being as heavy as Malabar teak or English oak and only the inferior qualities of mahogany being so very light and buoyant.”

 

 

Bermuda Cedar

Juniperus bermudiana

A light wood that is impervious to most insects and much resistant to salt water. Though slightly tougher against puncture than Pitch Pine it has a lower threshold for breaking under a given weight. Much used in shipbuilding in the 17th century, by the late 18th it was less common, but still much sought after for decks, rails and even planking.

“Bermuda cedar, Juniperus bermudiana, which was formerly much used in ship building and many of the timbers of the Spanish ships taken in the last war were of this species of cedar. It has been remarked by a Mr. G.A. Lloyd that up to this time there are great quantities of the finest cedar growing in the British Island of Bermuda.”

 

Scots Larch

Larix decidua

A hardy wood whose best qualities come when planted on the harsh exposed hills and mountains of the Scottish Highlands. That it never became the replacement for the dwindled supplies of Oak for the Royal Navy was not to do with its qualities, but rather with members of the government who had invested heavily in the Teak forests of India.

The Duke of Atholl and his Larch society planted 2 million seedlings across Scotland and even had a ship made nearly entirely of it, the HMS Atholl, 28 guns, which lasted in service for over 40 years without refit! He worked tirelessly to get the RN to invest in Larch, and it always performed wonderfully well, being exceedingly strong and resilient for its weight, but politics and money hampered its total adoption.

Larch grows to immense heights, 135 ft is not uncommon and is rare wood during the Naval Action period and chiefly available in small quantities at British ports. It is the longest lasting and decay resistant wood available and like Teak does not cause iron bolts to corrode in it. It is the only other wood besides Elm used for keels.

“The great and important trial of the larch as a valuable tree for naval timber was made from 1816 to 1820 in building of his Majesty's frigate the Atholl Her keel, masts and yards were made wholly of larch. When launched her weight was 267 tons The Niemen frigate built of Prussian fir and of exactly the same dimensions as the Atholl and launched the day before her drew 9 feet water afore and 11 feet 6 inches abaft and weighed when launched 286 tons The Ranger frigate of similar dimensions but built of oak weighed at the time of her launching 350 tons”

“A communication from the Navy Office of date 13th December 1827 founded on a report of the condition of the Atholl and Niemen frigates states that the Atholl at that time would only require very small repairs whereas the Niemen built of Baltic fir was found so very defective as to be proposed either to be broken up or taken to pieces”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elm

 “The keel of a ship built in this country is generally composed of elm on account of its toughness and from its not being liable to split if the ship should take the ground though pierced in all directions by the numerous fastenings passing through it” While Pine and Teak can be used to make a keel, Elm is universally considered the best wood for this long thin perpetually submerged piece of timber.”

“The keel is usually composed of elm a wood that best endures being immersed in water The fibres of this wood are tough and well adapted to receive the numerous fastenings or bolts that pass through it such as the bolts through the lower timbers of the frames called floors The size of the keel in a first rate man of war is 20 inches by 20 inches technically styled 20 inches square”

“Elm a timber nod for but few purposes in ship building principally for the keel on account of its toughness as this property renders it more capable than other timber is of resisting injury when the ship takes the ground and it is also less likely to be split by the number of bolts that pass through it in the same range of fibre and lower strakes of the bottom.


(unfinished sections)  
Teak

Teak is a wood native to India and Burma. Many types of woods that are not Teak have been given the name of Teak however, for instance, Cumaru is sometimes referred to as ‘Brazilian Teak’, while the ‘African’ Teak or ‘Rhodesian Teak’ bears little botanical relation to real Teak—Tectona grandis.

                 

 

 

Oak

In Provence, the growing conditions of Oak there creates a competition between vigorous oak trees, as they search out the sunlight with their leaf canopy, results in them having enormously long straight trunks compared to those which grow in mixed deciduous woodland in the UK and Ireland. The British Isles Oak, while far fewer in number, produce more naturally curved timbers suitable for compass cuts than the continental Oaks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Compass Timber and Laminated substitutes

“Substitute for Compass Timber From knowing the difficulty that prevailed at this period 1803 for the want of Compass Timber which retarded the progress of ship building I proposed by model to the Navy Board a method to combine two pieces of straight timber as a substitute for Compass Timber as described by the sketch of a floor timber Jig 7 plate I and the scarph Jig 8 which was approved of” - Descriptions of various plans for the improvement of naval architecture

By Richard F. S. Blake 1833

 

 

 
 
Accurate Resource Locations:
 
This is largely unfinished, but you will see where I was going with it. 
 
It works with the concept adapted by the devs original vision of not needed to sail further than 3 ports away to find everything you need to build a ship. If they were to scrap that idea, then this system is ready to go too.
 
Here is how:
 
There are regional forest types and different levels/qualities of forests, mines, plantations, farms etc.
 
The resources can exist as they are now and every forest or mine that is there now would be considered 'basic' or 'sparse'. Productions levels would be adjusted the minimum to serve only in the building of ships for new players or players who don't have a lot of time to sail, but not enough there to stockpile or sell for profit elsewhere.
 
This system adds Prime Forests, Good Forests and Sparse Forest and each forest has three levels you can upgrade to. 
There would no longer be 'Live Oak Forests' or 'Oak Forests', but rather a region will have either Temperate Hardwood, Temperate Evergreen, Dry Tropical, Temperate Coastal or Tropical. It will make sense when you open the link.
 
Example: A level 2 Prime Temperate Hardwood Forest will produce 200 Oak, 50 Pine, 50 Fir, 0 Live Oak and 75 Craft Wood (which represents Birch, Cherry, Walnut etc); A level 2 Prime Temperate Coastal Forest will produce 50 Oak, 0 White Oak, 200 Live Oak, 50 Pine, 20 Fir and 20 Craft Wood, and so on.
 
Tropical Forests will produce a ton of Craft Wood, which when harvested there will represent exotic tropical woods of course (there are a lot of things they will be used for, not just furnishings in shipbuilding as you will see)
 
A region may have Sparse Temperate Coastal Forest and Prime Temperate Evergreen Forest available for you to build, some regions would only have Dry Tropical at varying qualities, or Tropical and so on, etc, etc. Forest Types represent what is accessible inland from that port, not just along the coast.
 
(Note: Teak does not grow in the region of the game and currently this proposal and it would render the historical resource aspect silly if it were to be available as it is now. So Rangoon Teak (the less valuable) would be available in many ports as an import from the 'European Traders' in enough quantities to build with. Malabar Teak would be available in British ports, again brought by 'European Traders' or by players who open a Trading Office to 'harvest' it. This overall makes Teak a more valuable item in the game.
 
In one of the images down below you will see a Mine tree I made, and then in the crafting list sheet you will see how these new resources are used. This is one of the part that I needed more time to complete, but again it adds a lot of depth for the crafters and some new (and historically accurate) ways to get rich.
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gi0S2lV-lTvZpCzDAP2G_6ZkQhDOyb-6xwWBlIi0qHs/edit?usp=sharing
 
Resource Map (this is one of the major unfinished parts) and some other vegetation maps I used to work from. The work is in the link above, these images are just superficial. 
 


OqVDTeK.jpg
 
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Deeper historical Shipbuilding with endless options for customizing
 
The new wood types and this system will allow you to build a ship out of many different types of timber, but no combination would be stronger than Live Oak is now and no combination of timber would be faster than Fir is now. This adds nuance and flavor to what we have.
 
With this system, the wood you choose for your frames and the wood you choose for your planking defines your speed, planking and HP. You may find you personally like using Cuban Mahogany frames and Pine for your planking for your Le Gros Ventre, or you may choose to build your Bellona with White Oak frames and Rangoon Teak planking. 
 
This sheet has 4 tabs, tab 1 shows the potential uses of each wood type, 2 shows the effect on planking, HP and speed of each wood type, 3 shows every combination of frames and planking and their effects and 4 is some charts showing the stats.
 
Here's the cool thing about it, you can choose not to care about this and you can still make all your planks from Oak and pick your frame wood type now and play the game, this adds options for customization.
 
Many of us get a lot of joy out of testing different types of wood and modules on ships and race them, experiment making mission specific setups etc, this system is a wet dream for many players. 
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15vzY6NwiNPK2DPKdESM5WgLXTzFvJ8sZX_3d39WXtT8/edit?usp=sharing
 
 
Other images that I used as information and other ideas for all of the above


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PNbBsbp.jpg
 
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38KPYed.jpg
 


 
 
Port Consumption Ideas
 
Lastly one of the ideas I had that I haven't had time to work on is for large ports to have basic needs that they can't supply themselves from the inland in theory.
Grain, Sugar, Whale Oil, Turpentine etc, would have a minimum amount that needs to be brought to the port and sold to the AI every month. Any player in port could open a tab that shows how much more grain the port needs to meet it's minimum for that period.
 
To work it would need AI trade fleets bringing a large portion of that every few days, thereby creating a meaningful incentive for players that prefer PVE to either attack or escort (work this into missions) .
 
The rest would need to be brought by players, thus creating another way to make money and creating an attack/escort incentive for PVPers.
 
Example: Charleston being a capital will buy any item you want to sell, national resources (like Dutch Laudanum or Russian Vodka) will always fetch top dollar, but it also has needs for the citizenry and labor force, like grain for example.
 
Let's say it requires 150,000 grain each week; the AI traders bring 100,000, every ship that is captured by enemy players come off that amount. 
 
Players that bring a needed item can get good money for it, missions can be issued to players to protect trade fleets of grain etc.
 
If the period ends and Charleston only has 110,000 grain delivered, it produces less of everything until the next period ends. Totals would not be cumulative.
 
So everyone with a silver mine or Live Oak forest in Charleston would see lower production, but not enough to severely hurt you, just enough to make commerce raiding have meaning in the game.
 
Also if all the basic needs of the port are met then all buildings would see a small boost for the period.
 
 
 
If you made it this far, thank you for reading  :)

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Provisions

 

I have proposed adding provisions for immersion and to deepen the crafting and resource uses. Provisions would work like this:

 

100 provisions would feed 300 men for 10 days of on the sea sailing, using the current day at sea counter, and its weight would be 5. Many vessels comfortably took on provisions for 6 months without adversely affecting their performance, so you could outfit for 180 days using 90 weight capacity of your hold. 

 

This means it you would not need to constantly watch your provisions if you chose to load up like that.

 

Items needs to craft 100 provisions -taken from here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XomSxvgZ6e2GAg0ZvOjfM3TqZR94-1iGbMJbVODoU-I/edit?usp=sharing

 

2YqXnmF.jpg

 

Provisions can be bought just like medkits are now, or crafted, and each of the items going into can be bought as well, or crafted


Medkits

 

To make medkits more historical they would use items involved in medicine of the era

 

bCBR3Ni.jpg

 

Again, can be bought as items or as a medkit as is now, or crafted.

 

Turpentine is crafted from tar, whiskey and corn alcohol are made just like rum is, using different ingredients and medicinal herbs come from any farm as a bonus and rare herbs come from tropical forests as a bonus. Both are sold in ports that have the available building. One could make a nice profit hauling rare herbs from the tropical regions to ports where those forest do not grow. The system creates a lot of potential ways to creatively make money, this way 300 captains aren't sailing around with hundreds of compass wood.

 

Note: National items like Dutch Laudanum, Scotch, Spanish Dried Fruits etc, can be used in place of the respective generic items and require much less to create the provisions.

 

Shipbuilding

 

Masts

 

You will see I've listed masts and spars, which is technically redundant and 'spars' means masts as well, but in this proposal spars represent all the spars on a ship except for the main, fore and mizzen masts. Acquiring the masts was a special job for each ship.

 

So building a 3rd rate for example you would need:

 

2pEhG6M.jpg

 

Each forest, based on quality and level, produces 1 special tree per harvest. 

 

Fine Trees make small masts

Great Trees make medium masts

Giant Trees make large masts.

 

Only Prime, level 3 forests can produce Giant Trees for example. They are worth their weight in gold. (A chart for this would need to be made showing they pyramid)

 

As far as the 36 spars of various sizes needed on the 3rd rate, those come from normal logs

 

RKvE1zX.jpg

 

 

Sails

 

We would also craft sails (or purchase them as usual)

 

T9dPFf7.jpg

 

So you would need this to make a 3rd rates sails and spars

 

KMnx8Ct.jpg

 

Brass comes from Zinc, Copper and Coal and like anything else you can buy sails from the AI, but at much higher cost

 

kOCKgaK.jpg

 

 

 

Keel

 

Like spars, laying the keel was a very special job and thus would be part of the crafting in NA. This is one of the things I have not finished, but it simply would require a Great or Giant tree, depending on the ship and only certain types of timber can be used to make the keel.

 

A player could make a good profit crafting and supplying keels to busy ports.

 

More to come.
 

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Thank you. 

 

 

Lots of great ideas 

As we are working on the regions - i think we can incorporate many of them in the game

 

The only question i have is this. The sheer amount of complexity arising from the proposal can make balancing impossible. If the proposals are balanced they become fake features.. 

For example. 

Example 1 - types of wood

Live oak - better hull qualities

Mahogany - better hull qualities

if they are balanced and similar - then they become a fake feature (do not give much meaning) and will require code base to maintain and balance

 

Example 2 - Alcohol production

Simple way 

Sugar + barrels + LH = rum (generic alcohol)

 

Complex way

Have 20 recipes for alcohol - requiring creation of items to support all that production. 

Beer, Whiskey, Rum, Akvavit and many others become varied types of alcohol. Some of which (if not useful in shipbuilding or trading) become fake useless features. 

 

 

Example 3

Simple way

Have canvass rolls and rigging parts 

Large ship requires lots of canvass rolls and rigging parts. 

 

Complex way

Have 20 blueprints for different sizes and area of sail

Change every ship blueprint to accommodate that. 

If crafter made small sails they are not useful in large ship production creating waste and just forcing the player to do a lot of clicks in general. 

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.....

also would like to say that we are very very conflicted about provisions

if we are to add them to game - i think they should be a permanent addition to a ship when it is constructed. (like it was in POTBS).

people sail a lot and forcing a player to get back into port from time to time to click a button was found to very annoying to some.

 

It can be said about repairs. We wanted them to be a strategic element especially when you operate in distant waters. But the way the game develops their importance has fallen significantly. People just click repair at sea or at port.

 

We can of course move to a dark souls very limited repairs (like allow 3-4 repairs at sea only) which players will have to either buy in ports get from fighting (sink a ship get 1 repair, board a ship get 3 repairs). In this case groups who don't do decisive battles and run a lot will have to come back to port often. And will sink a lot because next battle they will be out of repairs.

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Ask the community devs.

But a thing that is key for the game is balance.

If the crafting proccess is fun I think there wont be problems.

Supplies would make the ships more expensive and hard to get (mixed feelings about this) while the repair kits limits would lead to more strategic decisions.

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perhaps admin look at the Australian first fleet... Iirc you could solve some provision problems by adding an AI fleet supply ship mechanic for long journeys. But in reality ships seem to have carried enough provisions to last half way around the world. Or did they have provision/supply ships along with them? Was it nelson that chased the French to the Caribbean and back? I cannot remember at this hour.

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Really depended on the mission. Many Posts had supply convoys - see Brest post squadrons.

 

Pellew's when sent after the corsairs operation out of Ile de France go on her own. This didn't mean they would never make port for fresh water and fresh food this all ships did aplenty.

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Beautiful work and I enjoyed the read a ton!  I think you are on the right path here!

 

I believe there will be people who play this game just because of the economy if done correctly!  

 

The Ideas of having a forest and harvesting said forest to give different types of woods and sizes is great.  The different types of woods will also give huge strategic differences between nation's ships.   Instead of my dream that only nation's can sail their own ships.. I will deal with the wood.

 

I don't know if you have to get so technical..but the idea of the the perfect trees 

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We can of course move to a dark souls very limited repairs (like allow 3-4 repairs at sea only) which players will have to either buy in ports get from fighting (sink a ship get 1 repair, board a ship get 3 repairs). In this case groups who don't do decisive battles and run a lot will have to come back to port often. And will sink a lot because next battle they will be out of repairs.

 

I like this idea. However, you need to have something for assist as well like 5 assist could count as 1 kill. Or make trade possible at sea between friends.

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Provisions

 

I have proposed adding provisions for immersion and to deepen the crafting and resource uses. Provisions would work like this:

 

100 provisions would feed 300 men for 10 days of on the sea sailing, using the current day at sea counter, and its weight would be 5. Many vessels comfortably took on provisions for 6 months without adversely affecting their performance, so you could outfit for 180 days using 90 weight capacity of your hold. 

 

This means it you would not need to constantly watch your provisions if you chose to load up like that.

 

Items needs to craft 100 provisions -taken from here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XomSxvgZ6e2GAg0ZvOjfM3TqZR94-1iGbMJbVODoU-I/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

 

 

Question

Would it be just better to make provisions a permanent part of a ship during construction (like it was in POTBS). Basically if you build a ship you supply it for life?

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Question

Would it be just better to make provisions a permanent part of a ship during construction (like it was in POTBS). Basically if you build a ship you supply it for life?

The question is,

Which goal are you looking for?

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Question

Would it be just better to make provisions a permanent part of a ship during construction (like it was in POTBS). Basically if you build a ship you supply it for life?

 

What is the goal? 

 

If it is an economic issue, as in you want more outputs on the economy as well as a type of consumption that happens even if your "just" a trader, then I think it should be something you have to replace regularly like crew. 

 

If it's a flavor/immersion issue, then I don't even see the reason for adding it, other than another item to check off that creates a new requirement in ship building.  It would add basic cost, and some supply line complexity, but other than that it's just another input like Iron or Oak.

 

You added "Days at sea" into the UI for a reason, so I suspect that is supposed to have some meaning.

 

I personally would add it as a consumable, provided that you make the consumption of the item easy enough.  Go ahead and make the supplying part a bit awkward, like the Sugar-Rum construction, but make it easy to simply add them to your ship.  

 

Also, would you allow the consumption of "fish meat" as part of provisioning?  If so, then my guess is that current fishing rates are high enough that nobody will have to actually stock up on provisions anyway.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Parts of this proposal will be implemented this patch

 

We would like to thank captains mentioned in the intro list

 

 

PS

Well structured and illustrated proposals like this are always taken very seriously.

We also are looking for the similar illustrative proposals on the fore and aft rig sail (gaff sails) and perhaps AI patterns (patterns that you think ai shoudl learn to execute), actually a good illustrative proposal or guide never hurts and might help in the creation of illustrated manuals/tutorials in the future

(examples of good illustrate proposals - please remind me if i missed other good ones.)

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14213-need-for-turning-acceleration

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15670-lateen-rig-research/

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4695-feedback-on-game-model-of-sailing/

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/9149-feedback-on-combat-manual-sailing-guides/page-1

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12441-escapomatrix/

Started to write this and realized that our community have created a lot of great thing and the list might go forever

like

jodgi speed graphs

all the wiki work ;)

naval action craft

and many many others

 

 

actually the subject of good illustrated content deserves a special post. 

  • Like 21

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I just wanted to say that I had not seen these replies until today, I posted this and then real life got very busy. 

 

I am honored that parts of this were taken on board. I am still busier than normal but I will love to help out when I can.

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