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Combat feedback

poll questions  

199 members have voted

  1. 1. Combat length feedback

    • Too long
      27
    • Just right
      158
    • Too short
      14
  2. 3. Cost of mistakes

    • No effect - mistakes has no effect on combat
      29
    • Just right
      154
    • Too costly - impossible to recover
      16
  3. 4. Damage of a perfect broadside

    • Too low
      45
    • Just right
      144
    • Too high
      10
  4. 5. Crew loss during battle from cannonball fire

    • Too low
      36
    • Just right
      119
    • Too high
      44
  5. 6. Sail damage

    • Too low
      24
    • Just right
      134
    • Too high
      41
  6. 7. Mast damage

    • too low
      81
    • just right
      107
    • Too high
      11
  7. 8. Raking (cannon loss + crew loss)

    • Underpowered
      79
    • Just right
      87
    • Too strong
      33


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Captains. 

Please lets discuss the combat feedback

 

Old topic will be locked lets continue here 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1941-damage-cannons-repairs-firing-aiming-suggestions-and-feedback

 

Format is simple

 

Post 3 things you like about the current combat and why?

Post 3 things you don't like (hate) about the current combat and why?

Post 3 features you believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

 

post less or more points if you have more to say. 

 

Unformatted posts will be hidden

 

 

 

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I like:
1) The diversity of shot/tactics in combat


Why?
1) Due to changea we initially either brawled, then we all went for masts, then we rageboarded. We never used chain, now we do. Grape is now effective as well.
In current engagement all of the above happens, instead of a routine of everyone does this or that. Most tactics are viable nowadays. You can vary ehat you do based on your enemy

 

I dont like:
1) The extra repair perk

2) Fire and the fireship module

Why?
1) I feel its way too strong and almost forces people to choose that perk. (Which goes against what i like and described above)

2) Fire can be toggled and the fireship modules adds nothing to the combat, perhaps more along the lines off: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14755-fireships-the-module-and-the-implementation/

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Likes:

 

I Have to say with the new penetration and mast thickness combat is more well rounded and isn't all about demasting and rage boarding. I see a lot more raking, decrewing and taking out cannons cannons and such. Combat to me feels better now with the new mechanics. There is different playstyles and I like that, the focus isn't on one thing being more overpowered like demasting being much easier than sinking or vice versa. Also the new acceleration mechanics are epic.

 

Dislikes

1) Chain shot is too accurate and it's range is too far

2) Storage master repair perk, too overpowered

3) Boarding system

 

Overall I think combat has come a long way and is a lot better with the new mechanics.  :)

Edited by Brisk

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Admin, you might wish to specify whether that poll concerns PvP and/or PvE because it can have consequences on the results of the two first questions (combat length and consequences of mistakes).

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Post 3 things you like about the current combat and why?

 

1) Graphic and sound wise i love the current combat, for me the details are really nice and a motivation to do battles aswell.

2) The immersion between guessing what cannon setup the enemy is using, what ammo type he is using. I have seen suggestion to make that visible, please dont , i strongly hope it will always stay a suprising element in battles. 

3) Land in battles, fighting in the channel at La Tortue is an awesome spot to have land on both sides. It is really nice to keep adjusting your course according to  land and the wind.

 

Post 3 things you don't like (hate) about the current combat and why?

 

1) Players can go off and on survival to play with the fire. at the moment i feel that fires are useless, nice graphic elements but not to the combat at all.I believe and feel that a fire should be more rare and have an real impact on the battle. Perhaps even an 0.5% chance but really hard to control and would leave you crippled.

 

Post 3 features you believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

 

1) Battle Morale outside the boarding minigame. Morale can be influenced and must have different impacts on the battle. Sinking an enemy ship should increase it, getting raked should lower it , etc.

2)  Visual grapling hooks before boarding, the option whether it is a perk or a rng number to cut those hooks off before the boarding starts.

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Like:

1. New acceleration curves.

2. Current chain damage.

 

Dislike: 

 

1. Hulls still melt too easily.

2. Most perks are degrading the quality of combat and the strategic positioning aspect of the game. 

3. AI in combat

 

What should be changed: 

 

1. The removal of most of these perks I.E. storage master, determined defender, press gang; these perks should be removed at best and at worse should be nerf'd to 5% bonuses.

2. Gun loss through raking fire is still not high enough.

3. Hulls should be made more resilient through decrease of cannon effective penetration past 300 meters.

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like:

  • the overall flow/ pace of the combat

 

dislike:

  • the diminishing of your dmge on cannons via the rep kit (repairs wayy too much cannons!)
  • randomness in cannondmge/loss (at least from my last information, way back already)
  • quick melting of frigate armor

 

what should be changed?

  • if that didnt happen already: code cannon as you did with crew lately. no RNG if the cannon is gone. determine it by dmge taken.
  • repairkits should not repair half broadsides. Cannons are a damm heavy mess to repair. you can be happy if you manage to settle her on deck!
  •  

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Things I like about the current combat and why?
- Combat mechanics in general. 
- Acceleration and deceleration curves. It makes it more realistic. Immersion.
- AI fleets. It gives diversity in combat strategy.
 
Things I "don't like" about the current combat and why?
- I liked it better when leaks had more and quicker effects on sinking. It created more tension in combat. Same with fire.  
Current combats lack unpredictable events that might cause drastic effects/damage on our ships.
- Sometimes the speed of frigates and Sols in combat instances : I'd like to test a little bit faster speed.
 
Features I believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?
- A smarter AI able to attack in OW, chase, demast, board, operate in groups, focus fire. Current AI is a bit boring.
- Wind strength. For skills.
- Storm, rough sea in combat. For diversity.

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Нравится:

  • Почти всё не плохо

Не нравится:

  • За великий ремонт мачт
  • Течи ставить бесполезно
  • Мало влияния на бой нанося критический урон

Хочется:

  • Возможность зарядить разные снаряды на разные деки
  • Побеждать бои засчёт критов, как было совсем не давно

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Like:

  1. Length of Combat.  It isn't too long and it isn't too short.  It can be hard to find combat sometimes.  Make combat shorter and the game isn't worth it because the action part of the game is then non-existent.  Those saying combat is too long, what are they playing for, if not the combat?  Go play WoWs if you want fast paced naval combat.
  2. Crew revamp and ability to turn broadsides off.
  3. New Acceleration and Wind
  4. Most of the non-op perks - prepared, double shot, double charge, trim master (might be a little OP, but isn't terrible)
  5. Reasons to surrender - Thank you.
  6. Land in battles!

 

Changes:

  1. My all time dislike of combat in Naval Action is people putting their sails to 0%.  Have people start combat at deadslow.  Give penalties to people who completely take in their sails to 0%.  If you do it, it takes 2 minutes to get to dead slow again and your ship rolls with the waves very noticeably, making accuracy difficult.  The length it takes to get back going will allow your enemy to get behind you and rake you and teach you to use sail control and your yards to stop yourself instead of going to 0% sails.
  2. Grape shot should fire ball and grape
  3. There should be more leaks, but leaks should be less powerful.  2-3x more leaks, but make leaking from leaks 2-4x less powerful.  Keep leaking from structural damage the same.
  4. AI should surrender after they've taken so much damage.
  5. Ability to finely tune crew focus.

Not Sure About (I don't know if it should be changed or stay the same, I would be fine with either)

  1. Recently in my Surprise I destroyed 70-75 cannons in a battle against a single Victory.  Cannon damage might be fine in raking.  I've had rakes where I destroy 8 cannons.  Some people say it should be more.  I wouldn't be against adding more cannon destruction, but in one fight where I primarily raked with ball, I destroyed 70-75 cannons on a single victory.
Edited by Prater

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Things you like about the current combat and why?

- Hull and crew damage simulation seems to be fine.

 

Things I "don't like" about the current combat and why?

- AI behavior is often boring.

- I can't figure out what Double Shot does or is supposed to do.

 

Features I believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

- Storms in battles, especially on PVE

- Abstractly (through Sail Damage) or explicitly model Rigging Damage. Historically, chain shot was intended to cause rigging damage; sail damage was more or less a side effect. Rigging damage should degrade this kind of maneuverability: reduced speed of turning yards (perhaps different speeds for front and back, depending on damage) - perhaps down to 0 (yard stuck/broken/shot away), reduced speed of raising and lowering sails, reduced HP for masts as shrouds and stays are torn away, etc.  Why, because right now, the whole critical system of sail CONTROL is completely impervious to damage.  It destroys immersion to have ships so maneuverable after taking so much damage.  And, demasting is too difficult now.

Musket fire at close range before boarding

Depower independent of raising / lowering sail

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What I like and why:

1.) The overall pace of combat. It's good. Yes, I might have to be prepared for a mission to take an hour to complete, but that's not a bad thing. It's slow, yes, but it doesn't feel too slow. If it was fast, it would feel less realistic. 

2.) The amount of control I have now over the crew, what guns I'm loading and firing, and so on. The revamp of the crew system and the ability to toggle decks on and off is quite nice, and lets me get more out of a smaller crew. 

3.) The visuals. It's a pretty game. The ships look good, the water looks good, the land looks good, the battles look good. 

 

What I don't like and why:

1.) Chain shot doesn't seem to do enough damage. It takes forever to load, it requires substantially more elevation that standard shot, and when you do hit the target... it might not do much of anything. I think there needs to be more to the sails and rigging that the chain shot can destroy. Perhaps an improvement to the damage model of everything above the deck (masts, sails, rigging) would help.

2.) The boarding. The effing boarding. It is both terrible and terribly frustrating. Maybe it's better when used against another person, but against AI it's just infuriating, because the AI will often instantly counter your moves. It's overly complicated, hard to understand, and the effectiveness of certain attacks can seem rather random. I wouldn't be unhappy at all if you scrapped the boarding system in its entirety and redid it. Make it simpler and more straightforward, make the attacks more effective (when you're boarding a ship with a lot of crew, 2 kills per round can be annoying), and for goodness sake make it less about timing when you click a button. 

 

What I'd like to see added to combat and why:

1.) Diversity of weather and wave heights in battles. Not only should we have storms, fog, and other types of weather in battles, but those things should vary in intensity, with stronger weather having greater effects. A stronger storm, for instance, would have heavier rain (more reduced visibility) and larger waves than a weaker one. Fog, and different levels of fog (light fog, thick fog), would be good to have. Cloud cover would be nice as well, to reduce visibility at night. You might make it so that weather would change over the course of a battle, with storms changing in intensity or clearing, or fog settling in or clearing, over the course of the battle. 

2.) As mentioned above, a fixed boarding system. 

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Things you like about the current combat and why?

- acceleration deceleration
-orverall lenght of combat and damages

 

Things I "don't like" about the current combat and why?

 

-Ships of the line being so weak alone versus a light frigate, SOL should turn on par with frigates, and be easly able to defend in a 1vs1 versus a 5th rate. Why: It is anti-historical, and I believe the key factor is difference of turnrate
-Stern camping, way too easy to be done, because of the high difference between turn rate on many ships, not really interesting when the victim has almost no option(there always should be an option...)

-Sails are melted too fast with chains, in a 1v1, equal strenght, hammering the hull should be decisive factor, as IRL, chains should melt sail less quickly, or cripple less the ship. 
-Too less heel, players should be more encouraged to fight in battle sails, and not in full sail, full sail should have more drawbak regarding combat, like fire extension (not being manageable if in full sails). Why : Historical

-Not enough epic PVP fights .... too much run and hide, but this is not linked to combat system itself

 

Features I believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

- Storms in battles

- Musket fire at close range and before boarding

-graphicaly a little bit more life on the ships, with a little bit more crew / Marines ...
-Dismasting when hitting base of the mast, inside the hull, while raking for example / 

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Like:

1) latest acceleration changes

2) battlescreen

3) can't imagine anything more. All other things feels like usual or general

 

Dislike:

1) way, ship adding moves. Everytime we get better combat stat ships - it is road to nowhere.

2) death among officers - harm to pvp, promoting surrendering, and time waste in pve officer leveling

3) lowered crew rake damage from grape

4) Juggling with repair modules ->officers values.

 

Random craft doesn't work, because it doesn't provide different use ships. It provide bad ships or good ships. Ship adding also moves this way, making some old ships useless. To remake it devs should replace broken so called random craft with real random craft, where every ship should be usefull in own way:

 

- value balance. Stifness isn't equal to speed. Ship stats should be scaled 1-100 on each, where 50 is original value, but randomizing those stats should be made within constant summary value. Not between good/bad. In that way craft result, being bad in one stat, will be good in other. Make value balanced and it will work fine.

- tunable ship secondary stats over random primary stats,

- packed ships - means they stats available for view only after coming to user, NOT crafter

- chance of getting extra stats on "bad" ships, like 3rd rate for example.

Edited by Amonacc

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Post 3 things you like about the current combat and why?

 

Generally this is the strongest part of the game, it looks, sounds and feels fantastic, the different ships all sail very differently.

 

Penetration mechanics, different types of cannon, armour and health make for more strategic engagements

 

The pace and length of a battle feels about as close to right as it should be for this type of combat.

Post 3 things you don't like (hate) about the current combat and why?

 

More control over what is loaded in each deck of guns.

 

The actually boarding "mini game" is very basic and limited and could do with a whole revamp.

 

There are lots more ambient visual and sound elements that could be added, being able to see "extra planking", "marines" etc, opening and closing gun ports, more crew sound based on in battle events, better on ship crew animations etc.

 

Post 3 features you believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

 

More officers (1-3 per ship based on rating class) with more perks, but the perks should all be 'smaller' in effect, closer to the type of benefits offered by permanent 'mods'. So 5% here and there as opposed to "must have" op perks.

 

Abandon ship when on fire or sinking ; saves %age of crew, saves %chance of officers, leaves the ship with a %age chance to be captured by the enemy.

 

A rethink of how ships 'exit' battle (ie The Battle Screen). Should you be able after 90 minutes of fighting to say, well thats enough for tonight I want to finish now and should that be different to, 3 minutes in a defensive tag, now I am staying in the battle screen for an hour coz Its too scary. How do we balance life v gaming v the intent of a Naval Action game.

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Уж простите, напишу на русском.

 

Post 3 things you like about the current combat and why?:

  1. Долгие вдумчивые бои с большим количеством маневров. Даже в абсолютно безнадежном можно нормально постреляться и получить фан.
  2. Игровая атмосфера в боях, не знаю как объяснить :)
  3. Допишу потом)

Post 3 things you don't like (hate) about the current combat and why?

  1. Тупая и бездумная стрельба в борт. Сейчас перестрелки в борт(именно в борт, а не в корму) напоминают стрельбу в однородную стену. Мне совершенно неважно куда я положу залп, в верхнюю деку или нижнюю, в орудия или около ватерлинии. Я просто стреляю вот в стену и делаю поворот, особо не целясь и не думая куда мне нужно сосредотичить урон, т.к. команда и орудия не выбивается, даже если выцеливать орудия. При этом я могу стрелять всегда только в верхнюю деку, которую пробиваю, и снести весь борт не пробивая другие части корабля, по идее, после того как на верхней деке останется фарш из команды и орудий, урон корпусу наносится не должен, т.к. самая важная часть - нижняя, цела и невредима. (к примеру верхняя дека Ингерманланда)  Отсутствие урона по орудиям и команде приводит к тому, что люди совершенно не бояться размениваться дамагом в бою, с одной стороны это хорошо, что дает возможность совершать ошибки, с другой не даёт возможности тащить бои за счет хорошей и точной стрельбы. 20 пробитий "куда-то туда" ничем не отличаются от 20 пробитий ровно по орудиям. Это вот заставляет немного грустить.
  2. Невозможность получить тактическое преимущество на OW. Вот это прям люто бесит. Бой начинается с маневрой на OW, это чуть ли не самый важный этап. Пример, мы идём плотной слаженной группой, за нами идёт жуткая каша раааазмазанная по всему гоооризонту, к нам врывается быстрый таклер, тагает нас около себя и создает точку входа. И вот эта вся каша леееениво подтягиваясь заходит спокойно в бой и падает прямо нам на голову и выносит нас, даже не координируясь между собой. Единственное, что спасает - Дефенс таг, который позволяет сделать точку входа дальше от нас, но и при этом мы все равно получаем противника не в виде размазонного неорганизованного ганга, а виде плотной группы, которые еще и ходят с одинаковой скоростью почти. Помнится, разработчики радели за слаженное хождение на OW, во времена ввода БР лимита...
  3. Перки, которые отрицательно влияют на ПвП геймплей. Я считаю, что ввод таких костылей это путь к аркаде, а не к серьезной игре по парусники Тут имеется ввиду перки типа двойного ремонта, Coward, Double Charge. Двойной ремонт это так вообще катастрофа. У меня вот Ессекс в бою тонул 8 минут! С этим перком он может танковать сбитым бортом дважды и наносить урон, потом отчиниться и свалить. Про то как влияет почти +100% к прочности парусов я и говорить не хочу. Два раза отремонтировавшись можно сбежать от любого противника, даже с 10% штрафом на скорость. Перк Double Charge ломают всю систему танкования и брони, надоело получать залп на полборта от противника, который находится от меня за 800м. При этом даже танкование ромбом не сильно спасает. Т.е.противник не в бою, но он всё равно имеет возможность дамажить, это не правильно. По этому мне и нравилась броня раньше, она давала возможность маневрами держать противника на безопастном расстоянии при этом драться с теми кто рядом. Это заставляло людей читать описание орудий. Перк на абордаж, считаю временным костылем до переделки абордажа, надеюсь что это так.

Post 3 features you believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

  1. Раздельный Reload Shock. Я предлагал его вот тут. Хочется нормальной вдумчивой стрельбы, которая давала бы возможность получать бонусы за счет скила. Это еще бы дало бонус к типу орудий, т.к. лонгами проще выцеливать чем каранадами.
  2. Разделить урон наносимый борту по декам. Самый малый урон при стрельбе по верхней, самый большой по нижней и орудиям.
  3. Пересмотреть систему таймеров выхода из боя. Плавать на кораблях без носовых орудий сплошная боль, а уж с Coward перком.... Многократно на форуме это упоминалось.
  4. Переделать круг входа в бой. Отстающие и не скоординированные должны должны иметь штрафы за своё раздолбайство.

Спасибо, если прочитали.

Edited by Dekillos

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Things I like about current combat model:

 

1. Overall pace and flow of combat appears right.

2. Combat is more balanced allowing for tactical choices and a variety of ship combinations. (not incl the effects of perks).

3. New acceleration model

4. Penetration falls off at range bringing combat closer to historical ranges. Makes up for the greater accuracy. Should be harder for smaller ships to stay at range and pen a SoL.

 

 

 Things I dislike about the current combat model

 

1. Chain shot range too long

2. No damage effect to yards and no apparent difference between mast sections for damage; t'gallant, topmast and main.

3 Furling sails in combat! If it must be in the game then stopping by furling should give a delay when starting up. Along with this is starting the battle with sails furled at dead stop. Ships should start in battle sail.

4. Day/night cycle - if you start during day or night it should stay that way.

5. Boarding clickfest. Also AI usually fights to the last man.

6. Perks and module combo need balancing to ensure bonuses not too much that skill does not matter.

7. Non existent crew management for large merchants (LGV & Indiaman). Should not have 100% gun crews.

 

 Features I think must be added to the combat model:

 

1. Damage to yards and upper masts - Chain shot should cause damage to yards and rigging effecting yard control. (Combine with decreased chain range).  Upper masts should have less thickness and should be easier first to come down rather than whole mast. Also smaller ships 9lb and lower at a disadvantage here b/c of low pen vs. mast maybe increase HP but decrease thickness - or just decrease thickness for upper sections.

 

2. Weather in battle instances, including variable wind strength. With a minimum wind of course, but strong winds should have effects like greater heel, damage to rigging for full sail, can't fire lower gun deck to leeward, etc.

 

3. Changes to Boarding, make morale more meaningful, especially for AI. Right now it is too much who clicks faster. Boarding mods are ok as long as there are penalties for choosing that tactic.

 

4. We have land and shallows so how about some system to account for draft. Perhaps more important for PB but also for combat near land. Currently all ships can go just about up to the beach before hitting land in a combat instance. Maybe several levels or classes of draft as a simple system, more than the current shallow or not we have now.

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I like how all your tweaks has made combat nearly perfect.

I dislike (or could be improved):

-Massive crew losses, all dead... Where are the wounded? Where is the surgeon?

-I'd not say I enterely dislike this but maybe chains should do a bit less damage or less accurate.

-More eyecandy, maybe just some textures that makes your ship look dirty when you have suffered some amount of damage, different ways of sinking, better explosions... Why? Inmmersion and epic, a quite important thing in the success of today's games.

I dislike:

-Boarding, its a let down compared with the rest of the dinamic combat mechanics.

-A few perks and modules are unbalancing the combat due to not having somekind of penalties.

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Things I love:

1. Sailing qualities of all the different ships, respectively. Each has its purpose, and each is different in some respect.

2. Damage models. The effectiveness of grape, ball, and raking is great!

3. Gunnery. The reload times and accuracy is perfect.

4. GRAPHICS. The game is visually stunning! (especially on a 4K system!) :wub:

Things I would like to see adjusted:

1. The maximum spawn distance in a battle. The idea that a player can "defensively tag" is counter-intuitive, and degrades PVP. Lets decrease the max spawn distance to near the max range of long guns. The faster vessel shouldn't be beaten in a chase due to defensive tagging.

2. The exit battle timer. Many players that are being chased are reluctant to use their stern guns to any effect, as it just keeps them in battle longer, not allowing for their escape.

Things I would like to see added to combat:

1. The combination of grape with ball as gun ammo. This was used historically, and I think would be widely used in the stern raking aspect of the game.

2. Expending ammunition/powder in battle. Not only was it obviously realistic, but the game needs another money sink. People are too rich. We could also incorporate this into crafting and trading, broadening the scope of the games economy.

3. The ability to assign crew to different tasks(gunnery, sailing, etc.) via a slider or percentage. Sometimes it is frustrating only being able to choose from 200 crew in sailing, or 20. For example, I would often want 20% on sailing and 80% on gunnery, with survival staying the same (automatic assignment if taking on water, on fire, etc.)

4. Please bring back stormy battles!!

Not sure if any of these are doable in the game, but they sure would be nice! BTW, great job on the game devs, I know that a lot people usually only have bad things to say on the forums, but the game has been a blast to play for a year and a half!

Edited by TheAmerican

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Things I like about the current combat and why?


 


1. as many others I like the new acceleration curves. Tacking is still not that difficult but you have to judge now a bit more if you do it or not.


2. the results of raking fire can be devastating, especially if your opponent has light carriages. Though the damage could be a little bit more.


3. small cannons can't penetrate at long distance. I like that thickness matters and isn't just some kind of health pool.


 


Things I don't like (hate) about the current combat and why?


 


1. No consequences for ramming respectively the playstyle of pushing/slightly ramming opponents into the wind (most of the time with 2 or 3 ships). I just hate it that some ganks turn into a bumper car ride with no consequences to the rammer. I get that leaks caused by ramming will be abused but there should be other consequences. Fast rams should result in severe rigging damage or even broken masts and small crew loss (injured in this case) for the rammer. Boarding prep should be lowered by 50% in the process and gun reloading stopped (similar to crew or reload shock). Also pushing another ship shouldn't be that easy if the weight difference is marginal.


2. For my taste the shooting (ball, chain) is too accurate. But that is just a minor complain. I have no problem if it stays as it is now.


3. Boarding in general and almost everything related to it (I think you devs already have some ideas about it). I am a strong opponent of the marine upgrade and mentioned it a few times already that every warship should get their historic number of marines on board. Always. They still can become a resource which has to be trained and refilled maybe.


 


Features I believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?


 


1. Chain and grape should be limited like double shot and double charge. Though in a larger amount. Maybe 6 to 10 chain and grape shot per cannon.


2. Introduction of wounded crew members, which should be the majority of casulties in a battle. Some of them will get combat ready again during the battle, the rest after it.


3. Crew loss should have effects on reloading, sail handling and transfer speed. For guns in a way that the overall reload time for one cannon gets longer and not like it is now, that just not all cannons are reloaded in the same time. Kinda simulation of lower crew morale. (strong maybe on this one :D


4. the possibility of loading different decks with different ammunition.


5. like above. Crew sliders to adjust their distribution.


6. if possible and if the impact on performance isn't too harsh (which I doubt ;) ), I would like to see the consequences of sail, rigging and mast damage. Like a sail falling down with the yard. A broken mast still connected to the ship via the rigging and thus severly limiting the maneuverability of the ship and the use of some cannons (it must be cut by the crew in survival).


7. I am still divided about the matter that full loss of structual integrety (no "health bar" :P) of one side should lead to unpreventable sinking of the ship. I am not a fan of sinking the enemy as the ultimte goal. No structure left could result in devastating crew and cannon loss with each additional broadside and thus forcing the enemy to surrender. Ships should sink due to too many leaks but they must be harder to obtain as they are now. I think that I am almost alone with that opinion and because of that I look forward to the test bed with the crew casualties (or did I miss it already? Were there more infos about it?).


Edited by Cecil Selous

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Likes:

 

1. The variety of options the player has to fight and win against another ship, which can change depending on player skill and ship matchup (all 3 shot types are useful without any one feeling overpowered, rakes are quite powerful, even a small ship can triumph over a larger one, or at least escape, if played correctly)

2. Current pace of combat is great. It neither feels too long nor too short.

3. LAND IN BATTLES!

4. Acceleration changes. I'm loving how the ships behave when tacking through the wind, and when turning their sails parallel to the wind to quickly dump speed.

5. Ship armor/cannon penetration changes. This was a great change that spelled out a lot of very nebulous numbers and mechanics that most players had only a vague idea of how it affected them in combat. The changes are great not only from a realism standpoint, but also to inform the player and let them make the best decisions for their purpose when building and outfitting their ships.

6. Leaks seem to be in a good place now. Small ships still have much to fear from being shot full of big caliber holes around the waterlines, and big ships feel very resilient to leaks but can still take on quite a bit of water (drawing quite a few men off the guns)

 

Dislikes:

1.Boarding. Currently, boarding is a contest of who can click attack closer to the end of the timer than their opponent. It's heavily ping dependent, which I think was one of the things the Naval Action was trying to avoid with the turn based system.

2. Effect of some perks on combat. Primarily, extra repair kit and determined defender. Extra repair kit I dislike because of how well it stacks with golden repair upgrades, essentially giving your opponent double their ship's actual HP. Determined defender I dislike because it renders any boarding or balanced module setup inferior to a full gunnery setup, to the point where the gunnery setup can't lose to a boarding unless they already lost decisively in gunnery to begin with. My opinion is that the boarding "problem" was primarily caused by bumper boat mechanics allowing ships to be forcibly turned into the wind with no risk to the rammer, and boarding upgrades providing far too high of a bonus for their downsides. That being said, the downsides may be fine and it only seems overpowered because ships can be easily manhandled into the wind with no risk.

3. Current carronade and long gun balance. I think the penetration numbers are either too low for long/medium guns or too high for carronades, and the penetration does not drop off enough quickly enough for carronades. I realize the heavy arc does limit their effectiveness beyond 250m, but even at 500m they have higher penetration than a long gun of the same class. This hurts a lot for masts.

4. Current implementation of chasers. Some ships have "chasers" in game terms that are actually bridle ports, while others with bridle ports have no chasers and the bridle ports are treated as broadside armament (example, Rattlesnake and Trincomalee's bridles are chasers but Essex and Belle Poule's are not). I'd like to see this treated consistently.

 

Please Add/Improve:

1. Shallows/reefs in the battle instance when they are in the area in OW. It's a bit jarring to go into battle on the edge between a shallow and deep area, only to be able to without any issues over the "shallows" even in deep draft ships.

2. Boarding combat rework. The current system feels OK as a placeholder, but the suggestions here seem like a great place to start with a rework http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15561-building-a-better-boarding-game/

3. For determined defender, remove the % crew required for boarding and give a different bonus. Extra firepower/melee damage on defending vs an opponents attack, or dropping the amount of turns to disengage by 1 and lowering the prep required for disengage

4. Improve chasers/bridle ports. Ships that do not have a directly forward facing armament like the Frigate, Bellona, etc. should still have a "forward" armament if they have bridle ports, but be restricted to only firing as far forward as the port would have historically let them.

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I Like:

 

  • Manual sailing

Why: The ability to control the masts is a god send to tactical sailing in combat

 

  • The ability to damage certain parts of the ship to cripple them

Why: Whats not to like destroying someones rudder or set them on fire?

 

  • The sailing combat mechanics at its core are in place

Why: Some of the realism is good, but overall a working model to tinker with is in place

 

 

 

I Don't like:

 

  • Ship crafting stats, module equipment stats all being multipliers off of the ship's base stats

Why: Current equipment and crafted ship stats work based off of the ships base stats which is fine, but the multiplier values only benefit those that have high base values. Example being bigger ships get more mileage out of "Extra Hammocks" exceptional's +12.5% crew, if the ship starts out with 450 crew vs. a ship that only has 120 crew.

 

450 crew *12.5% = 506 crew (56 crew gain).

120 * 12.5% = 135 (15 crew gain)

 

I think modules (and crafting stats) should have the multiplier and a base stat to add to the ships to even out and equalize the disparity between smaller ships to bigger ships.

 

  • Officer Perk - Determined Defender

Why: This perk pretty much forces the opposing player to rake/decrew and just stonewalls the idea of being boarded by equal sized crewed ships and smaller ships with less crew. A better counterplay for the attacker would be if this perk gave the defender in boarding (IF HE GOT BOARDED) extra morale/prep points.

 

  • Boarding combat mechanics

Why: The whole thing needs to be more fleshed out, and the amount of time and risk involved for losing your crew vs. their crew is kinda a turn off. Its almost better to just sink your opponent unless by some miracle you really REALLY want to cap your opponents ship cause its better then yours.

 

  • Grapeshot and decrewing mechanics

Why: It feels better to stern camp and rake with ball shot to kill crew then using grapeshot. Grapeshot also currently only works better against the opponents weather deck because of penetration mechanics. Decrewing doesn't feel good

 

  • Acceleration/Deceleration and top speeds of ships are too close to each other to their max ceilings

Why: Going back to the equipment module/ship stat modifiers, some ships are supposed to have certain roles ofcourse but everything else being close to the same top speed ceilings makes an uninteresting environment for chasing and running away as combat pacing is prolonged if everyone is going the same speed. Deceleration as well I think needs more to it to purposely slow down.

 

  • The ability to manually load individual shot per deck (Grapeshot on port-side Weather-deck and Ball shot on port-side gun-deck)

Why: Extra combat depth and tactics is missing without this feature. It also limits ship configurations because it is pointless to carry mismatched cannons and carronades if switching shot for one side reloads all of the cannons with that shot

 

  • Random Fire

Why: The firing volley of random fire doesn't serve much purpose. Would much rather see a quicker firing volley when firing all cannons compared to front to back and back to front modes

 

  • PvP fights in deep water ocean
  • Damage Model 5.0 - The interaction between 5th rates on up with multi-deck cannons vs. 5th rates on down to 7th rates without multi-decks in comparison to cannon class usage and armor penetration

 

 

Why: The way penetration calculations work that especially involve "angles" and using "small caliber cannon classes" against bigger ship's armor thickness makes it frustrating to deal with bouncing cannonballs as a smaller ship. Combat diversity is limited and pretty much means anyone in a smaller ship is forced to the options of shooting opponents sails with high reload or try to stern camp if they don't sink in the process. Combat Meta is pretty much determined right now to who has the bigger boat, who has more gun decks, and with those gun decks who has higher caliber to be able to penetrate high amount of armor thickness. Speed at this point is just secondary since everyone is so close to the same top speed but would still be moot if top speed were fixed because it isn't fun or diverse to stuck in 5/4th rates on up.

 

To me it feels like World of Tanks, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth with combat penetration like that.

 

 

Post 3 features you believe must be added to combat mechanics and why?

 

 

  • A change to penetration in the damage model and removal of bouncing angles

Why: If as an example a cannon ball does 30 points of damage but penetrates at 300m of 50cm against armor of 60cm, it shouldn't bounce off but still damage them with a damage reduction.

 

cannon ball penetrates 50cm - armor thickness of 60cm = 10cm = 10% damage reduced from cannon ball damage

 

30 - 10 = 20 cannon ball damage

 

  • Modules and equipment add an included base stat with their multiplier when altering ship's stats

Why: A means to equalize the gap and play styles of smaller ships and bigger ship players as multiplier stats only better benefit high base stats on ships

 

  • The ability to load different shot to each leveled deck for each side

Why: More diverse options to bring to combat and more reasons to mix-match cannons & carronades for specific purposes to what your ship and play style is

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like:

  • The overall combat machanics
  • sail and wind mechanics
  • penetration mechanics
  • the map with land on it

 

dislike:

  • the historical properties of the ships in relation to each other are not met (A frigate could have never killed a 3rd in RL, there are examples that two might do it, but not one). There should be done something.
  • Double charge is not historical. Remove it.
  • AI behavior in battles (today a frinedly AI completely ingnored me and my ship. Tried to turn although i waqs there and even shot at an enemy, though i was alongside) (In the beginning of fleet battles quite often the enemies turn in a way to ram me directly at my bow as their first action)
  • ai trader do not surrender until the crew is dead. (again very unhistorical)
  • hit far above the water line should have no effect on the ability to swimm of a ship
  • battles under full sail are not historical - you might add a certain chance to set you own sails afire when firing guns and the mainsails are set
  • ships speed is not historical - 3rd rates could be really fast because of their long waterline, but this again is to see in relation with the other ships
  • the damage inflicted on small ships when hit by big guns is to small. A single hit with 42 pounder would have an devestating effect on a cutter or even a brig. When i see a rattlesnake sterncamping behind a bellona and taking several hits from the 68 pounder carronade, something is wrong.

suggestions to improve:

  • There should be no signd of splinters shown on guns (as they were not made of wood)
  • different hit zones (below the water line - let a ship sink with enough hits; above the water line - kills crew and guns, but doesn't let it sink -> reason to surrender)
  • dismasting should be reworked - the masts should be much more difficult to hit, but less hits required, when the mast finally falls, it should hang over the side for one minute while the crew is hacking away the ropes and the ship should heel over in this time, turn to the side where the mast is and unmaneurable. (again more historical)
  • destoyed guns should not be shown anymore, the gunports should be empty
  • add full broadside - all guns fire nearly simutanously, while the ship will be slightly heeled over from the recoil

 

As you can see, I would prefer a 100% historical correct game. But what you have done so far is the best sailing game i have ever played. Thanks for that!

Edited by Sea Archer

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Still think "combat length" it too long.

 

How many times have I been "pissed off" by a single Rattle, who cannot beat my trader in time

(or any other ship) and they just keep trash talking me and use their 1h+ to their advantage.

 

Finally, my life time is more precious and I surrender.

 

Never ever do you get a chance to talk for a "draw", they simply use the TIME LENGTH to their

advantage....

 

It is a trade-off, I know, but I vote for "length" being reduced....

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