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Alliances - final design


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Ok so if Pirates are not a nation and can't do port battles what happens to my resource farms? How do I make money and gather materials?

I want to play the game and enjoy all aspects and craft but am feeling like I am being pushed to re-roll a nation.

If this is implemented I would like to see the devs give all nations a free re-roll so players can join smaller nations or leave Pirates.

I'm thining they will give the re-roll option when the new pirate mechanics come out.  I just hate we have to share labor hours across the servers or I would of gone Pirate a long time ago on one of them just to play the national side on one server and the Pirate side on another.   As is it's kinda forcing me to make an account just to run an alt in another nations unless I don't want to do any crafting at all with one char.  Which would be my Pirate char as it should gain it's resources from capture ships and raids, which I hope they turn their PB's into raids not captures.

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14 hrs per week is too much. Freezes out more casual players.

True indeed. So instead of making it a per week requirement just make it a certain amount of active time in current nation before you can switch nations or vote. 168 hours in a week. So say your character has to be in current nation for at least 168 active hours before you can change a nation or vote.

 

Ok so if Pirates are not a nation and can't do port battles what happens to my resource farms? How do I make money and gather materials?

I want to play the game and enjoy all aspects and craft but am feeling like I am being pushed to re-roll a nation.

If this is implemented I would like to see the devs give all nations a free re-roll so players can join smaller nations or leave Pirates.

Good call. So, considering a Pirate will have no nation, and therefore no ports, I feel they should be able to set up OPs and building in any nation's ports except capitals?? If pirates want to run operations out of Beaufort, then it is up to the US to expel them from that port by continually attacking pirates around there in hopes that they leave. But I do hope Pirates can be allowed in PBs, able to join either nation in that port.

Say Pirates are friendly with Brits and are inhabiting a Brit owned port free of charge. Then say Spain attacks that port; Pirates should be allowed to defend that port considering it is home to some pirates.

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I like to think of Pirates as seekers of freedom, living without restrictions and serve nobody but their own.

Seek any and every option to further our own benefits.

So which this patch we get:

  • no choice who enters each other ports
  • no choice who are pulled into battles as our friends
  • no choice to enter any port battle we wish
  • no choice who can or cannot be attacked
So instead of getting options, Pirates will serve under the restrictions of the alliances mechanism and lose their freedom.

I try and operate as a pirate so for me

I dont go into others ports exept as a smuggler.

Im guess mu group or pirate faction still gets pulled into my battle and either way my clan isnt near other pirates.

I am a pirate soi don't care about port battles.

I dont care who fights whobas long as i can pick off the weak.

The game isnt finished and neither is the pirates being changed.

This addition will not do anything to change my clan.

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if you are not allied you are at war

enemy choice is needed for blocking purposes - but i am sure your nation hate one of the nations more than others

 

I like this , but, maybe another better situation could happen:

... Have you think about the chance for ONLY ONE NATION could be at peace ? ...

 

This PEACE situation will provide a short time ( 2- 4 weeks , only one nation would be at peace ),  recovery for.

 

Tell me if you have think about it , because would be more logical. There is always people who doesn´t want WAR, at least for a short time. Please provide Relax and Recovery chance.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Marques
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There definitely needs to be an in-game system to allow easy nation swapping, but it needs to be an application process put to vote by the new nation's citizens and it must require that you have been in your current nation for at least a set period of time. I think it must also require that you do some sort of good deed for the nation that you are intending to defect to. Perhaps you must capture a port for that new nation or you must pay in gold and in goods? Who knows, but yes to in-game Letters of Marque, but also yes to requirements that will prevent nation hopping every day or even every week.

...

 

Great suggestions all the way around. Paying gold, or goods, or ships/whatever is a good idea. To put you back in the king's good graces, so to speak.

 

I also like the idea of Letters of Marque, so long as you can't change nations too often.

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Great suggestions all the way around. Paying gold, or goods, or ships/whatever is a good idea. To put you back in the king's good graces, so to speak.

 

I also like the idea of Letters of Marque, so long as you can't change nations too often.

Ty mate, and about changing nations, I'd suggest it be only after a certain number of hours are actively played for that nation. Maybe 2 weeks worth of hours? 336 hrs? Maybe a full months worth of hours? 672? Unknown, but they should be counted only if active.

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If you let power gamers rule the game NA will die withing 6 months max. Not going to point fingers, but one clan already proved how easily it is to destroy nation population and eventually the game. That is why heavy restrictions must be applied per Nation. This includes hours spend in one Nation, PB participation and points earned in contention zones before you  can go into Politics. Please take no offence we are just figuring an honest way. 

 

Is there a way to log IP addresses for all players to record their votes thus preventing their "alts" from double-dipping in the voting booths? :unsure:

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But, do we leave it completely open so that all alts can rig votes or only those very few who plays alts regularly? There is no option at all that will curb 100% of rigging votes. So it is better to curb at least 70% of the vote rigging. I second the motion to prevent votes to those who play a percentage of time in one nation. I would say on average ppl play 2 hours a day. 2 x 7 = 14 hrs. What is wrong with limiting the ability to vote to those who play in one nation at least 14 hrs per week?

Ad to this the player's necessity to be of a higher rank to vote. Most alts are not higher than rank 3 or 4, because they use them for labor hours more than PvP. If people have alts of a high enough rank and with enough hours, then all I can say is that they need a life, follow the advice in game, "You need to find yourself a girl", or whatever it says. hehe

 

Because some casual players aren't going to be playing 7 days a week...

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Because some casual players aren't going to be playing 7 days a week...

Yah some of the folks I know only get on weekends or a little every other day when they can.  Some of us have jobs, kids and other games we play.  

 

True indeed. So instead of making it a per week requirement just make it a certain amount of active time in current nation before you can switch nations or vote. 168 hours in a week. So say your character has to be in current nation for at least 168 active hours before you can change a nation or vote.

 

Good call. So, considering a Pirate will have no nation, and therefore no ports, I feel they should be able to set up OPs and building in any nation's ports except capitals?? If pirates want to run operations out of Beaufort, then it is up to the US to expel them from that port by continually attacking pirates around there in hopes that they leave. But I do hope Pirates can be allowed in PBs, able to join either nation in that port.

Say Pirates are friendly with Brits and are inhabiting a Brit owned port free of charge. Then say Spain attacks that port; Pirates should be allowed to defend that port considering it is home to some pirates.

168 hours?  Are you smoking crack or something?  Most folks have a 40-50 hour job.  Which would mean 4 weeks even if your on every day for most of the day, but since most of us have jobs it's more like we might be own 2-4 hours a day at most.  So lets say 2 hours.  Just to be nice I'll say 6 days a week when it's prob more like 4-6.  Than you figure that is about 12 hours a week.  Which would put you around 14 weeks.   That is 3-4 months of play before you can even vote.  Most of the players haven't even been on that long.  I do think they should be Captain or above as a marker as to when they can vote.   Maybe a little lower, but not just every midshipman out there.

 

 I also think there shouldn't be alts from the same player in two different nations on the same server either.

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Great, dimplomacy is a nice feature and it'll be very handy instead of having to check the forum 24/7 because clan B got a sudden agreement with clan/nation A. More clarity, love it! (great for casual gamers as well, more involvement).

 

Second of all; stop thinking in terms of time consumption for allowing to vote. It is a bad system imo. As stated by others; don't leave out the casual players. Yes, NA is one of these games that require some amount of time to play decently and interact with the community/nation but you can't just leave others out. I do agree that you can't satisfy everyone. You can't expect someone to receive a vote if they log in for one hour a day and don't help out the nation in any other way, that's just wrong, there needs to be some kind of involvement.

 

 

Either it be by a system of points or 'achievements'. Combining different achievements or focusing on one achievement could be a factor to receive a vote, or multiple.  For example:

 

A ) You played 10 hours.

 

B ) You participated in five port battles.

 

C ) You sank/captured X ships from enemy nation(s).

 

D ) You own one piece of land (port).

 

You could combine numerous achievements to receive atleast one vote. Play X amount of hours/week AND participate in PvP (did one of the other achievements) , thats what the whole voting system is for atleast. This will overcome the problem of not being a hardcore gamer, not limiting the # of time you need to play, but rather what you do with your time in-game. Eventually you'll come accros some kind of danger (Example: Willemstad being plagued by Pirate and Spanish players, interaction). Last but not least, as mentioned before: you can't give everyone a present. Earn it. Same for the alts here, if you're that eager to exploit the system, well then go for it. Spend some time on your alt participating in PvP. I'm sure the nation would love it instead of you being AFK. And think of it backwards again; you will need to do the same for your other account if you want to vote. This will completely deny anyone with bad intentions to exploit the system. If you're that eager you will eventually level up your alt and be AFK for X amount of hours, it doesn't matter. These achievements make sure someone actually needs to work for their vote(s). A vote isn't nothing. Politics are very powerful and need certain regulations -> earn a vote but make it do-able.

 

 

I'm also a fan of giving more points in combination with the achievements. I would love to see an extra feature being added here. Instead of your regular name you'll receive an extra name: landlord Commodore Cpt Fred or Privateer Post-CPT Cpt Fred. Just because you completed an achievement (focusing on one!) You can only have one title and the title you get immediately has the highest amount of points received. Each nation could have different ranks (Different language: Spanish, French, Danish,...) and this has a new RP value. "I crafted a victory for a landlord!!!", "my ships are only for the best, our nations best privateers". Each nation has a couple of these ranks, just like every country IRL has a president, king, government, elite,... Ranks reset every X amount of time when you have to vote again. ​Or keep nametag with (EX-privateer), can also add date,... Can add a history of ranks, who had which rank, just for the record and RP value. Possibly celebrating my 10th anniversary of being a landlord for the VP, for example. Think of other achievements as well (PvE related). Example: bring French Wine (French = ally) to Willemstad. You'll receive the title: French Delicacy expert (customizable / nation). Endless possibilities!

 

With regard to the nation switching, again a great combination. If you're part of the pirate nation there has to be a different system. If you're part of a different nation; be in an alliance with an other nation (periodical, could be good or bad). Good: players can't switch forever, only during an amount of time. Bad: if players from a smaller nation switch all at once, for example, during any kind of peace treaty (big clan,...), the other nation would be completely broken without players. Nevertheless: Trading goods with the other nation could possibly end up in receiving more loyalty points with the other nation, which let you transfer to the other nation. Again a different idea, same outcome: Participate in battles with a captain of the other nation. This will increase participation in PvP (or PvE) even more + you're making friends,... Make players do something. Being AFK grinding hours is nothing, allthrough the X amount of time in a nation to vote/switch isn't a bad starter but might be too limitative for casual gamers, even in general. Talking about 100+ hours in a certain nation to vote/switch is a heavy requirement already. If a casual only plays for 2 hours a day -> atleast 50 days of waiting time. Lower this requirement and add extra achievements. Not 100% sure how this should work, needs more input.

 

 

 

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The alt thing will be a problem. Some people have alts sitting there afk while playing their main and racking up hours.

To vote, it should be a point system, reach X amount of points to vote, either by fleet missions or pvp.

Make it pvp or the alts will just tag along afk with clan mates.

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Yah some of the folks I know only get on weekends or a little every other day when they can.  Some of us have jobs, kids and other games we play.  

 

168 hours?  Are you smoking crack or something?  Most folks have a 40-50 hour job.  Which would mean 4 weeks even if your on every day for most of the day, but since most of us have jobs it's more like we might be own 2-4 hours a day at most.  So lets say 2 hours.  Just to be nice I'll say 6 days a week when it's prob more like 4-6.  Than you figure that is about 12 hours a week.  Which would put you around 14 weeks.   That is 3-4 months of play before you can even vote.  Most of the players haven't even been on that long.  I do think they should be Captain or above as a marker as to when they can vote.   Maybe a little lower, but not just every midshipman out there.

 

 I also think there shouldn't be alts from the same player in two different nations on the same server either.

It was just a number to prevent those who love to nation-hop and will indeed do so to throw votes. What if they just make it so that you have to already be a part of that nation before voting begins? Or put a week long lock on votes if you've recently changed nations?

Edited by Cpt Blackthorne
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Great, dimplomacy is a nice feature and it'll be very handy instead of having to check the forum 24/7 because clan B got a sudden agreement with clan/nation A. More clarity, love it! (great for casual gamers as well, more involvement).

 

Second of all; stop thinking in terms of time consumption for allowing to vote. It is a bad system imo. As stated by others; don't leave out the casual players. Yes, NA is one of these games that require some amount of time to play decently and interact with the community/nation but you can't just leave others out. I do agree that you can't satisfy everyone. You can't expect someone to receive a vote if they log in for one hour a day and don't help out the nation in any other way, that's just wrong, there needs to be some kind of involvement.

 

 

Either it be by a system of points or 'achievements'. Combining different achievements or focusing on one achievement could be a factor to receive a vote, or multiple.  For example:

 

A ) You played 10 hours.

 

B ) You participated in five port battles.

 

C ) You sank/captured X ships from enemy nation(s).

 

D ) You own one piece of land (port).

 

You could combine numerous achievements to receive atleast one vote. Play X amount of hours/week AND participate in PvP (did one of the other achievements) , thats what the whole voting system is for atleast. This will overcome the problem of not being a hardcore gamer, not limiting the # of time you need to play, but rather what you do with your time in-game. Eventually you'll come accros some kind of danger (Example: Willemstad being plagued by Pirate and Spanish players, interaction). Last but not least, as mentioned before: you can't give everyone a present. Earn it. Same for the alts here, if you're that eager to exploit the system, well then go for it. Spend some time on your alt participating in PvP. I'm sure the nation would love it instead of you being AFK. And think of it backwards again; you will need to do the same for your other account if you want to vote. This will completely deny anyone with bad intentions to exploit the system. If you're that eager you will eventually level up your alt and be AFK for X amount of hours, it doesn't matter. These achievements make sure someone actually needs to work for their vote(s). A vote isn't nothing. Politics are very powerful and need certain regulations -> earn a vote but make it do-able.

 

 

I'm also a fan of giving more points in combination with the achievements. I would love to see an extra feature being added here. Instead of your regular name you'll receive an extra name: landlord Commodore Cpt Fred or Privateer Post-CPT Cpt Fred. Just because you completed an achievement (focusing on one!) You can only have one title and the title you get immediately has the highest amount of points received. Each nation could have different ranks (Different language: Spanish, French, Danish,...) and this has a new RP value. "I crafted a victory for a landlord!!!", "my ships are only for the best, our nations best privateers". Each nation has a couple of these ranks, just like every country IRL has a president, king, government, elite,... Ranks reset every X amount of time when you have to vote again. ​Or keep nametag with (EX-privateer), can also add date,... Can add a history of ranks, who had which rank, just for the record and RP value. Possibly celebrating my 10th anniversary of being a landlord for the VP, for example. Think of other achievements as well (PvE related). Example: bring French Wine (French = ally) to Willemstad. You'll receive the title: French Delicacy expert (customizable / nation). Endless possibilities!

 

With regard to the nation switching, again a great combination. If you're part of the pirate nation there has to be a different system. If you're part of a different nation; be in an alliance with an other nation (periodical, could be good or bad). Good: players can't switch forever, only during an amount of time. Bad: if players from a smaller nation switch all at once, for example, during any kind of peace treaty (big clan,...), the other nation would be completely broken without players. Nevertheless: Trading goods with the other nation could possibly end up in receiving more loyalty points with the other nation, which let you transfer to the other nation. Again a different idea, same outcome: Participate in battles with a captain of the other nation. This will increase participation in PvP (or PvE) even more + you're making friends,... Make players do something. Being AFK grinding hours is nothing, allthrough the X amount of time in a nation to vote/switch isn't a bad starter but might be too limitative for casual gamers, even in general. Talking about 100+ hours in a certain nation to vote/switch is a heavy requirement already. If a casual only plays for 2 hours a day -> atleast 50 days of waiting time. Lower this requirement and add extra achievements. Not 100% sure how this should work, needs more input.

how would this work on the pve server for the players that chose to play pve?

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And this is exactly what I call cheating and why most games won't allow you to have alts of diffrent nation/factions on the same server.   I don't mind some one having multi alts in the same server if they are of the same nation/faction.    I play mainly US on the PvP2 server and thinking now that we  can change our nations on other servers I was thinking of makeing my EU server char go Pirate since I rarely play on there.  Though if the NATION of Rats have a policy to hunt down other rats that will attack rats than there is no point for me to do this.  I only want to do it solo for the off hour PvP when the US server is a bit slow late at night.

You called him a cheater. If he is a spy or an alt he is not cheating - he is a saboteur (if he is) and game does not give national officers tools to handle those people.

Guess again... (hence the hint admin dropped in this topic. ;) )

Which they should be, they are suppose to be HARD MODE not easy mode.

 

 

Why can't you still do that?  I mean Pirates are the only ones that can attack each other.  This means you can still do this but there just won't be a game mechanic since it's on a clan level and not National.   Oh and PvP 1 seems to not want this with the stupid attack a Pirate the rest of the Pirates will hunt you down and destroy you.  Seems way to much like they are trying to be like a Nation than what Pirates are more like.

Well that is how they prob should be, but when is the last time you actually seen pirates attacking other pirates?

Because we can not...

No, we can not: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15472-pirate-pirate-free-for-all-battles/

We were forced to become a Nation and now we should reverse it.

So instead of getting tools and options to deal with the situation we are put in, we simply once again need to seek exploits on a likely broken mechanism to prove our point.

Give me a good in game challenge and I'll face it. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15026-pvp1-july-tobbies-tobacco-imperium/

Give me broken mechanics and either I'll exploit or simply stand back not doing any (port) battles. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15548-the-three-admirals-treaty-pvp1/?p=290118

Fight players, fighting a challenge is fun, fighting broken and misunderstood mechanics is not.

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Guess again... (hence the hint admin dropped in this topic. ;) )

Because we can not...

So instead of getting tools and options to deal with the situation we are put in, we simply once again need to seek exploits on a likely broken mechanism to prove our point.

Give me a good in game challenge and I'll face it. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15026-pvp1-july-tobbies-tobacco-imperium/

Give me broken mechanics and either I'll exploit or simply stand back not doing any (port) battles. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15548-the-three-admirals-treaty-pvp1/?p=290118

Fight players, fighting a challenge is fun, fighting broken and misunderstood mechanics is not.

Yah so I'm taking it the Admins are okay with it, than we should have the tools to boot them or tag them as traitors (one way you can turn rat?).  Though with that I think there should be a system a Pirate can become a privateer and go back to being that nations member too.  That would be a cool way to have other options of how to turn Pirate in game.   

 

 

We will just have to wait. I really want to turn my US player on EU Pirate cause I don't play on there any more just to test the new mechanics out when they do come for Pirates.

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LETS ME ASK ONCE AGAIN.

 

 

Whether these changes will be introduced along with the announced changes in the Pirate mechanics? If not why Pirate nation (because it de facto is now) is to be excluded from alliances? This puts all currently sailing under the black flag in a very unfavorable situation.

I fully agree. Does anyone have a link on Pirate mechanics to have a read or isnt it out yet?

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One player - one vote!

 

Democratic system please. Im so tired being member of a nation that is tossed around by a few, dedicated players with their home-made-RvR diplomacy. Its really a turn-off and one of the major reasons for annoyance. "You cant attack that ship - we have a treaty with those guys - do this - do that"

 

Damn! Lets ged rid of this once and for all!

 

All byers have paid the same amount of money - all should have the same vote. All other factors should be left out completely! We are all customers here!!!!

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LETS ME ASK ONCE AGAIN.

 

 

Whether these changes will be introduced along with the announced changes in the Pirate mechanics? If not why Pirate nation (because it de facto is now) is to be excluded from alliances? This puts all currently sailing under the black flag in a very unfavorable situation.

 

Its the nature of a pirate to fight and sink everyone he want.

If the pirates have ally with an real nation all pirates are loose the freedom they want.

Wait for the pirate rework. It is logical to remove the pirates as a nation and give them a real pirate-gameplay

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One player - one vote!

 

Democratic system please. Im so tired being member of a nation that is tossed around by a few, dedicated players with their home-made-RvR diplomacy. Its really a turn-off and one of the major reasons for annoyance. "You cant attack that ship - we have a treaty with those guys - do this - do that"

 

Damn! Lets ged rid of this once and for all!

 

All byers have paid the same amount of money - all should have the same vote. All other factors should be left out completely! We are all customers here!!!!

 

home-made-RvR diplomacy exists because the game didn't had such an option at the moment.

The players (most clans) tried to fill this leak in the gamedesign. In my point of view it is an democracy today and it is a democracy after the next content patch.

 

After the patch, maybe 60% of your nation decided to have nation X as ally and you want the nation as enemy, its the same as now:

You cant attack players of Nation X. Ok there is one difference:

 

You dont read from other players: "You cant attack that ship - we have a treaty with those guys - do this - do that", instead of that

the gamesystem calls you something like: "Not possible to attack that player, because it is a ally"

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Pirates are too much ignored in the game for me. You must do a patch only for pirates. No balance at the moment !

 

How ignored ? What balance is missing ? It is no different from doing your own thing and being in any other nation.

 

 

Democratic vote was not a thing in the Age of Sail. Hopefully the Lords idea will get through to provide weight and leverage.

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