Forthcoming patch with new perks and other changes.

[Elmarby]

You didn't read admin's responses to concerns about this.  That's why they said on the dev test server they were surrendering quicker than normal.  For some reason people still like to fight even after they've lost 50% crew.  People need to learn to surrender before then.  If you are taking 50% crew casualties, it is likely you aren't going to win.  Also, this is why we are testing on a test server first.

And how is surrendering after 2-3 broadsides adding to the fun?

 

PS

Please do not tell me what I have and have not read.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Elmarby

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

And how sinking or loosing a boarding with 0 crew left is funnier ? And how surrendering without fighting is funnier ? It's about choices.  With such changes, i think getting a good broadside will be more decisive and more realistic than now and tanking with an inferior ship less viable. 

 

If what you fear is less damages farming and less xp/gold rewards, that still can be tunned.

[Destraex]

My friend I know this. And this is cheat because you can inform all the world about type of ships, their cannons and apr. wood during the battle, as well as who's going to leave the battle and when.

I love reading nation chat during long battles or talking to the clan. They would have communicated via flags at great distances anyways and if this is a cheat so is open world chat and voice coms. Its the modern world. You will always get one flouting any no coms rule out of game so why try restricting it.

[Hethwill]

And how sinking or loosing a boarding with 0 crew left is funnier ? And how surrendering without fighting is funnier ? It's about choices.  With such changes, i think getting a good broadside will be more decisive and more realistic than now and tanking with an inferior ship less viable. 

 

If what you fear is less damages farming and less xp/gold rewards, that still can be tunned.

 

OW is part of the game as well, not only the battle.

 

This being said most battles, 1v1 and 1v2, are won on the OW. Land and wind and starting positions.

[z4ys]

 

If what you fear is less damages farming and less xp/gold rewards, that still can be tunned.

 

I still hope that one day. The only ways to earn money are by getting paid through the admiralty by doing honorable kills (a surrender is a HK too) or by trading. Same for xp.....

One day my King will give thanks for my conspicuous service and make me a baronet with land and money

Edited July 27, 2016 by z4ys

[Rabid_Infidel]

While you keep splitting hairs over combat model which is pretty good at this moment and is the best part of Naval Action, players keep leaving

in droves for the lack of content or meaningful things to do in the game.

 

Please concentrate on things needed in this game, like alliances and diplomacy, port battles, pirate nation changes, more ships, UI... Important stuff, promised but delayed to infinity!

You can fiddle with the damage model later when we have a damn game to play! 

 

Thx!

[WilsonMG]

Crew losses already turn a lot of battles into a break even/net loss in gold scenario unless you go the Santi + Gold Marines + Stack Melee + Rage Board = Profit route or have access to unlimited med kits...

 

I'm taking a short break and mostly just logging in to right now to craft anyway, but I definitely won't be getting into much combat until after the minimum 1 crew killed per penetration is applied and then reverted back to its current state...

 

there is no chance

currently a cannon ball delivers X damage if hits a crew...if it flies further it can hit more crew unless it hits a hard object (cannon for example) other side or flies out

patented mechanic   dont want to give competitors ideas    - but you can inquire in other channels

 

After testing that bug i came to believe that while we calculate the crew loss properly (kills). But the damage is very low because we do not include injured, broken, routed and just scared people in it. And 

It is ok for grape because it is inflated.

 

Have you considered having the morale stat actively affect your crew temporarily inside a battle instead of adding permanent casualties to account for the same?  There are a great number of factors which could increase or decrease morale during the course of a battle affecting how many men are available at a given time due to morale, further, it could give way to new officer perks to inspire the crew and reduce the negative impacts of morale loss, speed recovery, etc.  It could also carry over to the boarding action so that it would be more dynamic than it is currently.

 

Along the same lines, perhaps wounded crew should be another separate stat as well, but also temporary (i.e. full recovery at the end of battle).  Recovery rate in battle would be dependent upon the current morale and the ship's surgeon's skills (more officer perk possibilities), but would be much slower to recover than morale.  While on the one hand morale could fluctuate quickly and increase or decrease a lot over the course of a battle due to events, wounded crew cannot simply heal themselves of serious injuries.  A guy missing a leg might recover eventually, but he won't be back in the fight this battle, but a guy that's just knocked out might come to with only a light concussion.

 

A future UI might indicate the following information regarding your current crew state:

 

Total Crew: 900

Morale: 79%

    Sailors: 810

          Able: 787 (9 KIA / 14 WIA)

          Ready: 621 (165 RO)

     Marines: 90

          Able: 83 (4 KIA / 3 WIA)

          Ready: 66 (17 RO)

 

Abbreviations Used

KIA - Killed in Action

WIA - Wounded in Action

RO - Refusing Orders

 

I'm not completely sold on the idea myself, so I'm probably going to regret even mentioning it, but with the above system you can see how morale would have a drastic impact on your crew even at just a 21% loss so you could potentially have a probability of causing an involuntary surrender should the number of crew Refusing Orders outnumber the Ready crew by a large margin for an extended period of time, i.e. the crew becomes mutinous, overthrows the captain, and strikes the colors.

[Wigermo]

what about surrender denying the kill/assist gold/xp

[Fenris]

 

Crew losses already turn a lot of battles into a break even/net loss in gold scenario unless you go the Santi + Gold Marines + Stack Melee + Rage Board = Profit route or have access to unlimited med kits...

 

I'm taking a short break and mostly just logging in to right now to craft anyway, but I definitely won't be getting into much combat until after the minimum 1 crew killed per penetration is applied and then reverted back to its current state...

 

 

Have you considered having the morale stat actively affect your crew temporarily inside a battle instead of adding permanent casualties to account for the same?  There are a great number of factors which could increase or decrease morale during the course of a battle affecting how many men are available at a given time due to morale, further, it could give way to new officer perks to inspire the crew and reduce the negative impacts of morale loss, speed recovery, etc.  It could also carry over to the boarding action so that it would be more dynamic than it is currently.

 

Along the same lines, perhaps wounded crew should be another separate stat as well, but also temporary (i.e. full recovery at the end of battle).  Recovery rate in battle would be dependent upon the current morale and the ship's surgeon's skills (more officer perk possibilities), but would be much slower to recover than morale.  While on the one hand morale could fluctuate quickly and increase or decrease a lot over the course of a battle due to events, wounded crew cannot simply heal themselves of serious injuries.  A guy missing a leg might recover eventually, but he won't be back in the fight this battle, but a guy that's just knocked out might come to with only a light concussion.

 

A future UI might indicate the following information regarding your current crew state:

 

Total Crew: 900

Morale: 79%

    Sailors: 810

          Able: 787 (9 KIA / 14 WIA)

          Ready: 621 (165 RO)

     Marines: 90

          Able: 83 (4 KIA / 3 WIA)

          Ready: 66 (17 RO)

 

Abbreviations Used

KIA - Killed in Action

WIA - Wounded in Action

RO - Refusing Orders

 

I'm not completely sold on the idea myself, so I'm probably going to regret even mentioning it, but with the above system you can see how morale would have a drastic impact on your crew even at just a 21% loss so you could potentially have a probability of causing an involuntary surrender should the number of crew Refusing Orders outnumber the Ready crew by a large margin for an extended period of time, i.e. the crew becomes mutinous, overthrows the captain, and strikes the colors.

 

He has a point on this. This should be a game, not a total simulation. Maybe this development wasnt necessary, and i think it wont be accepted by the community.Ifi t comes through, maybe developers should apply surgeons, or some "moral upgrades" or medkits which can be used(limited) in battle.(Although i think you guys mentioned something similar will be applied)

In my opinion Medkits are already too expensive, maybe dropping prices for 10-20 % would be an equalizing compromise.

[Dharus]

Several comments:

 

1) If you code in Leeway, this will officially be the best Age of Sail game perhaps the best sailing game ever.  This makes being on a leeshore that much more dangerous!

 

2) I like the new perk idea.  It gives more reason to be in a ship without a chaser.  It creates chases and not turn and tag which usually leads to people running away only to be re-tagged and complainants about "trolling".  An example would be a lynx chasing a trader lynx.  The lynx wouldn't have to turn giving up valuable speed and position to "tag" every minute because the trader has the "coward" perk.

 

3) I'm okay with the cannonball damaging crew.  Its really about hitbox and penetration values and pretty straight forward.  Leaks might need a little adjustment but the combat of putting leaks into someone requires to close with a distance that also could affect you.  Having a test bed is good idea.

[Chimera]

A good timed broadside could lead to a ship sinking (bug or intentional) and alot of people did not like the mechanic.

A good timed broadside might kill so much crew that the battle is more or less decided.

Will need testing, but I don't think it makes a difference if it's leaks or crew damage. What players didn't like was the fact, that a well timed broadside could decide battle.

[delaine]

there is no chance

currently a cannon ball delivers X damage if hits a crew...if it flies further it can hit more crew unless it hits a hard object (cannon for example) other side or flies out

patented mechanic  dont want to give competitors ideas   - but you can inquire in other channels

 

After testing that bug i came to believe that while we calculate the crew loss properly (kills). But the damage is very low because we do not include injured, broken, routed and just scared people in it. And 

It is ok for grape because it is inflated.

so the way this sounds i may beable to change the tide of boarding again on pve one victory arse shot at a time woo

[The MetaBaron]

Fixes to acceleration sound fantastic! Keep up the good work.

 

Crew killing sounds a bit too dramatic of a game play change. I don't see it going well. Looking forward to trying it though!

[JollyRoger1516]

I'm with Wigermo here - one of the most needed fixes right now is the fact that surrender makes PvP currently a complete and utter waste of money. It has come to the point where ships that just fireshipped but still have 20 crew left surrender. I understand that technically I'm supposed to get these ships after the battle but people surrender when they're going down meaning I get nothing at the end of the battle if there is more then one enemy in it. At this point it only serves as a source of grief and puts me of the majority of open world PvP.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't want to change anything to the enemies surrender they should still get all the advantages from a surrender they get right now. But I should not be denied my own reward and be awarded a kill/assist for my actions!

[Hethwill]

While you keep splitting hairs over combat model which is pretty good at this moment and is the best part of Naval Action, players keep leaving

in droves for the lack of content or meaningful things to do in the game.

 

Please concentrate on things needed in this game, like alliances and diplomacy, port battles, pirate nation changes, more ships, UI... Important stuff, promised but delayed to infinity!

You can fiddle with the damage model later when we have a damn game to play! 

 

Thx!

 

Interesting POV. I actually like that this dev team did/does the opposite. Provide excellent combat mechanics and then slab the layers of content.

[Khendon]

My friend I know this. And this is cheat because you can inform all the world about type of ships, their cannons and apr. wood during the battle, as well as who's going to leave the battle and when.

this is uncontrollable regardless of game mechanics. one person in combat and "text locked" out of nation chat can still tell all his or her friends about what has hit them and where they are. i talk people through battles all the time, what point of sail to hit vs various ships to catch or escape ect. i think that point...while valid....is moot.

[Kanay]

Interesting POV. I actually like that this dev team did/does the opposite. Provide excellent combat mechanics and then slab the layers of content.

Speaking of focusing on combat yeah i'd like combats to happen instead of spending hours waiting for exploiters of broken and unfixed mechanics ...

 

I had expected that by now the things totally killing the pvp in what is supposed to be primary a pvp game had been dealt with and fixed since a while with a high priority level addressed on those instead of seeing what looks more like exploits getting used 95% of the times during pvp encounters ... Defensive tag and hide in battle screen result ... this is something i am not understanding why it had not been deal with yet when some very simple solutions exist :

 

- Defensive tag : the one pressing attack button gets locked 10 minutes in battle with no way to escape no matter if he gets hit or not, chaser can spend 8mn or so focusing on his sailing to regain the speed and distances advantage he had in OW then start to shoot and keep him tagged after 8-9 minutes of sailing.

 

 

- Battle screen hiding : push all players at OW seas after 15mn max, offer the possibility to logout from this end result screen with a cooldown of 6 hours to prevent abuses of it.

 

 After a battle player can decide to logout from the end battle screen but can do this only once each 6 hours, the cooldown needs to be long so it doesn't get abused, if the players does not logout he have 15 minutes to take a little thing to eat or drink or go to the toilets and make the Colossus cry, after 15mn he is automatically pushed into the OW...

 

This will stop make all of us loose our time chasing slower ships than ours to see them def tag and spawn out of range of our guns then hide for 45 minutes in battle result screen, to then come out after this long 45 mn or more wait and repeat the same exact thing and hide again 45mn or simply logout there ...

 

We will wait 15mn after the battle, if player(s) get out you have a second chance, if after 15mn they are not out you know they logged off and can come back after, being 30mn or 1h or more but this time they won't be able to logout again before many hours if they get pushed into a battle ...

 

 

Those two problems are killing the pvp in this game, you spend more time waiting for those broken mechanics abusers than anything else, they can come to heavy populated areas pick a few isolated players and then use those exploits to hide as soon as chased and they do it day after days ...

 

We came to a point where many just don't give a damn anymore about OW pvp as they know they will be granted of a def tag and hiding exploit 95+% of the times they start to chase a ship, i just can't understand why those two so crucial elements allowing players to escape and hide easily while all odds are against them are still tolerated and not dealt with when the solutions can be so simple as the ones proposed here ...  

 

Why so broken things don't get any attempt to fix them patch after patches while they kill this game each day a bit more ?? It's nice to see other things added and new combat mechanics etc etc, but before adding those the essential problems directly affecting the pvp encounters need attention focus and need to be fixed in priority instead of adding more things like unfair officers needing a way too long XP grind and having limited life's that break even more the pvp attractiveness with the surrender meta coming with them, too long time overdue to fix those broken mechanics that are def tag and hide in battle screen already .

 

I love this game and overall really like what dev's are doing with is, but for such things i simply cannot understand why so simple solutions allowing to prevent abuses cannot be added or tested before starting to add some other stuff, it's the main core mechanics of the game that we are speaking about and they are totally broken and exploited at almost each encounter ...

 

 

 

---------------OW encounter -------------------

Fir Wood rattlesnake to Oak wood rattlesnake : "  i'm faster than you and gaining terrain on you, will catch you soon " 

Oak Snake : " Yeah i see that , please do and come closer to get me " 

Fir Snake : " Damn this guy have nuts, he knows he's screwed for speed and attacked me as soon as i entered in the attack radius " 

---------Battle Session loading ---------------

Fir Snake : " WTF he spawned miles away ...  out of range for a hit and no way to catch up and be in range in barely 2 minutes  " 

------------------ 2mn later -----------------

Oak Snake : " hey faster snake, hope you enjoyed the view of my stern through your spyglass at a high zoom level, cya soon ... or not " 

-------------OW loading ---------------

Fir snake : " let's wait and see if he comes out ... "

--------------- 45mn later ---------------

Fir snake : " Nope still hiding , screw it ... "

[Blackjack Morgan]

Kanay,

 

I'd say keep it on topic.....there are threads discussing the specific mechanics you bring up and would be better in those than here. 

[Kanay]

Yeah i won't post more about this, 

 

Just getting really bored of this being used each day multiples time in almost all pvp encounters and nothing done patch after patch to fix those main issues that are killing the pvp game interest for myself and many others ... but won't say more about this yeah, even if the perk about 500m is directly linked to the def tag abuse and won't solve anything there due to spawn distances being far superior to make it possible to gain speed and get in 500m range in 2mn or so...

[Brogsitter]

1) good

 

2) good, even i would have said you should have done something else

 

3) not good but good to read this: "We are kind of worried to bring this to live game and plan to set up a test bed next week to experiment in a more quiet environment. All players will be provided access to this beta to test it."

With crew loss like discribed, raking shots will get obsolete ppl will just shoot broadsides again, smaller ships will have no chance against bigger ships any more cause penetration penalties, player will end up not be able to replace the crew anymore, due to its high prices. While the planned changes are making the game even more a simulator, the tactic aspects and the fun will get lost, specially in medium engagements. If you really want to bringt this live, you have to adjust multiple aspects of the game - not only the numbers of crew killed by a cannonball. But I really hope you leave the crew loss as it is.

[Cmdr RideZ]

I agree that it is good to have a good combat mechanism, nothing bad in that.

 

I agree that #2 is mandatory, and there is a high change that it makes combat even more interesting.  So time well spent here.

 

If they start making topics how to fix shitty boarding mechanism, I would be happy to read from that.  This is also a mandatory thing if asked from me.  Like 1000x more important than the brutality that goes in testing.

 

The brutal crew mechanism?  It sounds so brutal, that I do not think it even needs testing.  I still agree that crew losses could be higher, but the idea of every penetration to kill a man, that is a radical change.  So maybe directly test something that will increases crew losses but not to totally overshoot.

 

What are we going to do with the grapes after this goes online?

[Dekillos]

- Battle screen hiding : push all players at OW seas after 15mn max, offer the possibility to logout from this end result screen with a cooldown of 6 hours to prevent abuses of it.

 

We need x1 OW time speed for this, reinforcement should not have time to come in battle point due to the difference in speed in OW\Battle, because reinforcement too far.

[Kanay]

We need x1 OW time speed for this, reinforcement should not have time to come in battle point due to the difference in speed in OW\Battle, because reinforcement too far.

How i read this one  : " we want to continue pick easy targets near enemies capitals and be able to use exploits to hide magically if it becomes too risky and profit of a perfect impunity while hunting in enemies most frequented waters " 

 

That actually reduce number of pvp fights in game. And people will leave again.

 It won't, it will make heavy active pvp active zones different from the usual spots where they are located now, people won't go hunt alone or in tiny group 5 minutes away to enemies capitals to find players trying to level up in missions and jump them quickly to then hide from any reprisal, pvp will be more risky there as it should be if you decide to go hunt in enemies most populated waters ... PVP hot zones will move a bit away from those most populated waters or people still going there will move in more massive and organized groups and it won't hurt pvp at all, what hurts pvp and the game is players able to hunt 5mn away from a capital in total impurity using exploits to hide when it please them, this is making the game sick and many leave bored to see those exploits used in the vast majority of the pvp encounters ...

[Mrdoomed]

Speaking of focusing on combat yeah i'd like combats to happen instead of spending hours waiting for exploiters of broken and unfixed mechanics ...

I had expected that by now the things totally killing the pvp in what is supposed to be primary a pvp game had been dealt with and fixed since a while with a high priority level addressed on those instead of seeing what looks more like exploits getting used 95% of the times during pvp encounters ... Defensive tag and hide in battle screen result ... this is something i am not understanding why it had not been deal with yet when some very simple solutions exist :

- Defensive tag : the one pressing attack button gets locked 10 minutes in battle with no way to escape no matter if he gets hit or not, chaser can spend 8mn or so focusing on his sailing to regain the speed and distances advantage he had in OW then start to shoot and keep him tagged after 8-9 minutes of sailing.

- Battle screen hiding : push all players at OW seas after 15mn max, offer the possibility to logout from this end result screen with a cooldown of 6 hours to prevent abuses of it.

After a battle player can decide to logout from the end battle screen but can do this only once each 6 hours, the cooldown needs to be long so it doesn't get abused, if the players does not logout he have 15 minutes to take a little thing to eat or drink or go to the toilets and make the Colossus cry, after 15mn he is automatically pushed into the OW...

This will stop make all of us loose our time chasing slower ships than ours to see them def tag and spawn out of range of our guns then hide for 45 minutes in battle result screen, to then come out after this long 45 mn or more wait and repeat the same exact thing and hide again 45mn or simply logout there ...

We will wait 15mn after the battle, if player(s) get out you have a second chance, if after 15mn they are not out you know they logged off and can come back after, being 30mn or 1h or more but this time they won't be able to logout again before many hours if they get pushed into a battle ...

Those two problems are killing the pvp in this game, you spend more time waiting for those broken mechanics abusers than anything else, they can come to heavy populated areas pick a few isolated players and then use those exploits to hide as soon as chased and they do it day after days ...

We came to a point where many just don't give a damn anymore about OW pvp as they know they will be granted of a def tag and hiding exploit 95+% of the times they start to chase a ship, i just can't understand why those two so crucial elements allowing players to escape and hide easily while all odds are against them are still tolerated and not dealt with when the solutions can be so simple as the ones proposed here ...

Why so broken things don't get any attempt to fix them patch after patches while they kill this game each day a bit more ?? It's nice to see other things added and new combat mechanics etc etc, but before adding those the essential problems directly affecting the pvp encounters need attention focus and need to be fixed in priority instead of adding more things like unfair officers needing a way too long XP grind and having limited life's that break even more the pvp attractiveness with the surrender meta coming with them, too long time overdue to fix those broken mechanics that are def tag and hide in battle screen already .

I love this game and overall really like what dev's are doing with is, but for such things i simply cannot understand why so simple solutions allowing to prevent abuses cannot be added or tested before starting to add some other stuff, it's the main core mechanics of the game that we are speaking about and they are totally broken and exploited at almost each encounter ...

---------------OW encounter -------------------

Fir Wood rattlesnake to Oak wood rattlesnake : " i'm faster than you and gaining terrain on you, will catch you soon "

Oak Snake : " Yeah i see that , please do and come closer to get me "

Fir Snake : " Damn this guy have nuts, he knows he's screwed for speed and attacked me as soon as i entered in the attack radius "

---------Battle Session loading ---------------

Fir Snake : " WTF he spawned miles away ... out of range for a hit and no way to catch up and be in range in barely 2 minutes "

------------------ 2mn later -----------------

Oak Snake : " hey faster snake, hope you enjoyed the view of my stern through your spyglass at a high zoom level, cya soon ... or not "

-------------OW loading ---------------

Fir snake : " let's wait and see if he comes out ... "

--------------- 45mn later ---------------

Fir snake : " Nope still hiding , screw it ... "

This should be posted with the other 32456444322 post made by gankers about battlescreen cries.

[Leku]

This should be posted with the other 32456444322 post made by gankers about battlescreen cries.

 

Imo its easier to fix.

1st. Taginc circle should be cut half in size. It`s too big. Maybe even more. So def taging is no longer as good as it is now. Still give prey some room to counter act and they deserve it.

2nd. Battle screen lasts 5 minutes. After leaving battle screen your ship stays in ow for 5 minutes. You log off on battle screen? Np. You ship automatically shows in OW and stays there for 5 minutes and then disappears. No more magically invisible enemies hiding in your waters. Atleast it`ll be more risky.

Battle ends and everyone leaves. You stay and sail. Ok. 10 minutes since last man leaving battle instance it closes automatically. If you log off during that 10 minutes you drop out to OW and stays there for 5 minutes ...

Easy to implement i think and fix most of problems.