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Æthlstan

Higher Rank Can't Attack in first 100 hours of play

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Chimera    533

Here is the solution: stop seal clubbing in enemy waters and start protection your home water.

Leads to less sealclubbers and better protection at home.

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The Red Duke    6,297

Here is the solution: stop seal clubbing in enemy waters and start protection your home water.

Leads to less sealclubbers and better protection at home.

 

Lol, nice reply and straight to the point.

 

Find it funny that many captains go hit PvE'rs in emeny waters but in turn leave their own unguarded.

 

Such is the flow of National unity bahahahah

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Potemkin    256

With 2 min timers you might as well BE one of the PvE guys because if you arent right with them when they get jumped you wont see any action. The gankers will just log out in post battle screen to avoid the very thing you are suggesting, and if you do see action with said PvE guys it means you are the gankee because no one starts a fight planning to get ganked. The best you can do is hang around and prevent ganks on traders near freeports and OPs merely with your presence. Occasionally you get an enemy fleet location called out in chat and if you are lucky enough to assemble/organize a counter raid force in time theres still a good chance the enemy is using ships fitted for speed so they run. Yes you occasionally get results (enemy fleet engaged) but usually u just end up wasting your time because no one in a gank squad wants to fight unless the odds are stacked. Im not advocating seal clubbing by any means im just saying (for me at least) the returns for hours of empty defensive gameplay are far outweighed by the prospect of going to where you know you will find the enemy. At this point i log on to find large scale engagements. Chasing traders and loners for an hour/hour and a half just doesn't cut it anymore.

Edited by Potemkin

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Bach    1,274

Here is the solution: stop seal clubbing in enemy waters and start protection your home water.

Leads to less sealclubbers and better protection at home.

I have to agree with Chimera.

Though I know Athelstan means well, hard coded mechanics that prevent PvP are never a good idea for a sandbox dependent on PvP availability. If a seal is getting clubbed the nation should respond to protect. This creates multiple opportunities for PvP, promotes national unity and team play. A hard coded restriction just stops one reason to PvP and creates soloist players that expect the computer to protect them from the mean nasties out there.

Edited by Bach

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Mrdoomed    1,531

Whos really a seal and who is a Rear Admiral alt transporting goods or spying or just being a pita ?

I have to agree with chimera that the best fix is to patrol your waters. To be honest there is nothing gained by attacking a legitimate total noob in his cutter . Its not worth the time to catch and sink it and possibly miss a real target or get revenge ganked for under 50 xp lol.

I cant see that this is even happening enough to ever be an issue...i think the real issue is alts needing a way to move craft notes or bottles or other valuables safly.

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Æthlstan    266

To all who say patrol your waters, have you ever been on patrol in real life?

 

Newsflash: its boring.

 

Im not about to do it in a game, when there is little to no chance it will actually do anything useful besides waste my time. There is no chance you can respond to a gank in time. If you can, there isnt going to be a gank. Thats the whole point of the gank.  So youre saying people should log on every day to play Navy.  "hey guys lets sail around in circles around our home port and do literally nothing useful with our time"

 

yeah no thanks. BTDT

Edited by Æthlstan

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#Seven    12

But your solution doesn't hold ground at all. I agree with what Chimera said.

 

 

Your solution of not being able to be attacked by higher ranks for 100 hours has plenty of room for abuse. People would use this to sail around on alts with trader ships, completely invulnerable to anybody a higher rank than them.

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FurQ    29

 It's simple, reduced xp and gold the lower the lvl opponent, to the point if the disparity get to much you lose gold and xp

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Mrdoomed    1,531

To all who say patrol your waters, have you ever been on patrol in real life?

Newsflash: its boring.

Im not about to do it in a game, when there is little to no chance it will actually do anything useful besides waste my time. There is no chance you can respond to a gank in time. If you can, there isnt going to be a gank. Thats the whole point of the gank. So youre saying people should log on every day to play Navy. "hey guys lets sail around in circles around our home port and do literally nothing useful with our time"

yeah no thanks. BTDT

Then you only have yourselves to blame.

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Æthlstan    266

Then you only have yourselves to blame.

No, we are not to blame. you dont understand reality and have a fantastical picture of how Naval Action works today.

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Lord Vicious    1,438

People want to stop the seal clubbing. Is this a valid solution?

 

 

 

HUAHUAHUUHAHUHUAHUAHUAHahahahahha

 

 

It was fun at list,  thx for the laugh

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Learn the lesson we all did, if you sail out by yourself anything can happen. Make some friends and sail with them, or learn to deal with it. Its the wake up that everyone goes through that enjoys the game. Once you accept this you realize its part of the fun.

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Æthlstan    266

Learn the lesson we all did, if you sail out by yourself anything can happen. Make some friends and sail with them, or learn to deal with it. Its the wake up that everyone goes through that enjoys the game. Once you accept this you realize its part of the fun.

 

 

Tell that to all the recent noobs we have gotten who dont play anymore. The current mechanics do not allow help to arrive, there is no way to realistically establish a patrol without boring the hell out of people, and realistically theres no way for new players to have any chance of success against all these gankers with gold ships and gold upgrades who ruin other peoples gaming experience to make themselves feel better about themselves. 

 

Either fix this broken timer system so people realistically have a chance of helping these guys, remove the ability of lowlifes to prey on those who are still learning, or you will continue to see new player drop off

 

Take a look at my post count. I am definitely not new. I learned how to play this game when there was still a realistic chance of people being able to help out new players without babysitting them. IE, the not-as-stupid-timer era.

 

New players usually do not want a vet hanging around. When I see a new player, I say hi. I welcome them. I try to give some advice without smothering them. I ask if theyd like me to do some missions with them. I make them feel welcome without stalking them. If they dont want my help, I dont force it on them. I have noticed that 90% of this community doesnt give a rats ass about the newer players, and they usually ignore them, tell them to go ask somewhere else, or simply tell them to shut up. They have no time to spare to help the bright eyed noob. the 10% of the people who do try to help can only help a proportionate amount of newer players. 

 

Even if they say yes to you running missions with you, or letting you sail around with them, you must admit eventually it would get a little suffocating having a veteran on your back. You do need to let them explore the game on their own. So you cant be there to always protect them from toxic players. Toxic players are toxic in chat too. This type of behavior is a huge turn off to someone getting a feel not only for the game but also the community that plays it. Its definitely not part of the fun, if it was, we wouldnt see such a large new player drop off.

Toxic players gank. Toxic players seal club. Its not an intended part of the game. Its calculated abuse of the game system to gain an unfair, unrealistic advantage, with no possibility of danger or challenges. Easy damage farming.

 

Either we go back to the less broken timer system or we find some way to ensure that newer players can learn the game without molestation. Trust me. We have tried being there for newer players. Being out and about in our territorial waters. All you do is scare the seal clubbers away. You are a strategic deterrent. Why dont you ask those on ballistic missile submarines how much fun they have on their strategic deterrence patrols?

 

This isnt the real navy. This game isnt about sailing in circles around your home port, or some random point in the atlantic. Stop insisting that it is.

Edited by Æthlstan

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Mrdoomed    1,531

Im STILL waiting for you to tell me who is the seal amd who is the rear admiral alt sailing around with 20 crafting notes on board and how we can tell the difference?.

Also im still waiting for the way to keep these " seals" from jumping into every battle we enter to keep ramming us or blocking us or joining our team and shadowing us so we can fire.

Please stop ignoring me and tell me where to find these mechanics because im often called a seal clubber fkr attacking rear admirals in trade ships so i cant figure out what is a seal amd what isnt.

Edit...you said 90% of the community dont give a crap about new players. Can i ask what server and what faction you play? I dont see people on these forums being anti new i see the opposite and my faction on pvp2 is very new player friendly and helpful to everyone.

Maybe it says mre about the crowd you are playing with them it does the entire NA community because ive certainly never seen any ill will to a new player.

Edited by Mrdoomed

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The Red Duke    6,297

For me a trader has no rank.

 

Yesterday intercepted a midshipman on a trader snow. Eventually he went away safe ( had a phonecall and called the battle off ).

 

Now you wonder... you bastard pirate...

 

... yes, he actually was the alt of a high rank officer on a national navy.

 

Traders have no rank, that's my first rule.

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Mrdoomed    1,531

For me a trader has no rank.

Yesterday intercepted a midshipman on a trader snow. Eventually he went away safe ( had a phonecall and called the battle off ).

Now you wonder... you bastard pirate...

... yes, he actually was the alt of a high rank officer on a national navy.

Traders have no rank, that's my first rule.

Thats my line of thinking as well plus how are we supposed to know what seal is an alt or not ? No captain is gonna waste the energy to attack a cutter worth 20xp if he doesnt have too ( or i cant imagine they would) but if a cutter or lynx is following me or pestering me or acting wierd , why would a captain not take notice?

To me the bulk of the seal clubbing whines are from guys wanting to use alts as easy shuttles and as far as noobs quiting cuz they got attacked, well i doubt anyone who would have stuck around for long would quit cuz they lost a free ship ones fkr the 2 days they was low rank.

Save the seals= save my alts please.

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Prater    5,325

Traders are viable targets, and if they are in larger ships they are viable targets.  But if they (the rank 1 or 2) are in a basic cutter outside their capital, being brand new to the game, they are not viable targets, and anyone ganking them deserves the worst in this game, especially if the wanker is in a superior ship or if there are multiple wankers.  Such people drive people from the game, and in my opinion deserve the worst and no mercy, no matter what nation they are, even if they are US.

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Æthlstan    266

When did I mention traders?

 

The seal clubbing I am talking about usually involves a guy in a trincomalee or consti jumping into a newbie mission and slaughtering them all, or a group of people who sail around looking for lower ranks to hit.

 

If youre a trader, yeah, youre fair game. 

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Mrdoomed    1,531

When did I mention traders?

The seal clubbing I am talking about usually involves a guy in a trincomalee or consti jumping into a newbie mission and slaughtering them all, or a group of people who sail around looking for lower ranks to hit.

If youre a trader, yeah, youre fair game.

I mention it because your post says cant attack for 100 hours etc. This will simply lead to the constant making of alts that have 100 hours or less of play to safely transport goods. There is no fairway to protect new players against people that find some reason them and lets face it. The same kindof people who like killing people who are clearly new are the same people who will exploit a safety net like you suggested. Edited by Mrdoomed

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Potemkin    256

Extend the battle timer to 3-3.5 mins, watch ganking in game plummet and defense of gankees become easier, watch gankers on the forum lose their shit and threaten to quit if they cant get their 2 min timer back so they can do what they do with ease again. I honestly don't know why the timers were lowered to encourage solo and small scale battles (ganks) at the expense of the potential for large (unorganized/unplanned) OW battles. I understand that unlimited teleports change things but at some point you need to step the fuck back and ask yourself what kind of game you want this to be.... Sail around for hours by yourself and hit traders/gank lone people with no chance of getting sunk yourself- or massive trafalgar-like battles popping up in hotspots all the time because people can get to fights. There will probably never be a happy medium between the two and trying to find one is a detriment to both playstyles. If you build this game and influence where the development leads basing your opinion on current active playerbase and unfinished/unpolished content the end product may not be what was originially intended.

Edited by Potemkin

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Prater    5,325

Extend the battle timer to 3-3.5 mins, watch ganking in game plummet and defense of gankees become easier, watch gankers on the forum lose their shit and threaten to quit if they cant get their 2 min timer back so they can do what they do with ease again. I honestly don't know why the timers were lowered to encourage solo and small scale battles (ganks) at the expense of the potential for large (unorganized/unplanned) OW battles. I understand that unlimited teleports change things but at some point you need to step the fuck back and ask yourself what kind of game you want this to be.... Sail around for hours by yourself and hit traders/gank lone people with no chance of getting sunk yourself- or massive trafalgar-like battles popping up in hotspots all the time because people can get to fights. There will probably never be a happy medium between the two and trying to find one is a detriment to both playstyles.

 

The timers as they were encouraged ganking.  The lower the timers, the more ganking is discouraged.  It is hard for a wide variety of ships to sail together at the same speed and be able to tag the target.  The slower the fast intercepters are forced to go so as to stay close to their heavy hitters, the easier it is for gank victims to escape on the open world before they are even tagged.  The longer the timer, the farther apart ganking squads can spread out, the more sea area they can cover, the more targets they can find to gank.  One spots a solo enemy or a tiny group and says over team speak, "Hey, over here, there is the perfect person to gank."  All within the timer stream towards the victim, 1 ganker gets the person in the battle.  The victim has no idea that over the horizon 10 more enemies are coming to gank them.  So the victim decides to fight the battle, but right before the timer closes the battle 10 more enemies jump in.  Since the victim decided to fight instead of run, because they had no idea that 10 enemies were hiding over the horizon, they can't do anything.

 

How it is right now, you can see who will be in the battle.  Increase the timers, and you can't see who will be in your battle for sure, because you can't see over the horizon.  How it is right now, you know if you are going to get ganked, and if you see the gankers coming, can try to run on the Open World and then defensive tag if they get close (if you can't see the 10 over the horizon, how do you know to defensive tag the 1 ganker?).  If you are in a slow sol and are solo, it is your fault you were ganked.  Don't sail sols without escort.  Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

 

Also, if the timers increase, the battle join timers will have to increase on leaving port, so that people can't hide in port like they used to and then jump out and gank the person who was dragged into combat by a single player but 10 people are hiding in the port waiting to gank.

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Potemkin    256

I was only trying to point out that shorter timers are an expensive trade-off for large ow brawls imho. Your points are all completely valid, im merely saying that i think that the most amazing, unique, and fun aspects of this game are best showcased in large battles and that im wary of anything that detracts from the frequency of these battles happening both for the sake of my own enjoyment and for the appeal of this game to new, fresh players. I was under the impression (i may be wrong, clearly) that the devs main focus was always combat and that large trafalgar like battles were something like a quasi inspiration.

About your example, you also take away the ability for friends to help out. 9 times out of ten the guy sailing on his own that gets ganked is dead either way but a 2 min timer means you don't have to worry about other enemies close to an enemy capital if you hit em at the right time. Youd need 10 min timers to get to get to a battle to help out a buddy if the gank force waited for the appropriate wind direction.

Edited by Potemkin

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