Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 i am not part of any negotiations, so all i am writing is my personal oppionion: in a negotiation two parties can only come to terms if: a) both are in posession of something the other party wants or one party wants something and the other party shows a lot of good will from my perspective Spain does not have a lot to offer I (and im specifically not saying Britain and/or the provinces) want. If Spain comes into negotiation wanting everythinh (30 ports) but has nothing to offer in return, this leads to a point where a negotiation does not start at 100 and meets at 65 to 55 as alvar has stated. I dont have any interest in reducing spain to one port or wiping them from the map. on the other hand i dont see any reason to give ports to spain that are close to jamaica. why would we? what does spain have to offer for me to give up that position? Exactly. At this point, is VP to decide how far he wants to go ........ Spain will not assign ports of Cuba ...... If VP considered to have the northern ports of jamaica is enough, it will stop . But to be clear that the redcoats are not going to stop ........... His arrogance subsides only if the other humiliates ............ And this with the Spanish not going to happen ......... Jejejejeeje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundgemunkey Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 You don't need anyone on your channel to send messages in the chat. The problem is you, its not our diplomat, who is on vacation and wont come, is your tone, your arrogance and your manners. And yes... I'm might be at your level, but I'm not a diplomat. I also dont speak for anyone but myself ... but as I see it your not in any kind of position to dictate , tone, manners or whether people are arrogant .. The Spanish nation doesn't seem to have the will , the ships or the population to defend itself anymore , as history tells us its the victor who dictates the terms of peace not the vanquished .. The British and Dutch as far as can see have offered the Spanish reasonable terms that will allow you to rebuild and hopefully become strong enough to have some good PVP and PB in the future ... while most Brits want a prosperous Spain to fight against a lot want spain down to one port ..this is not healthy for the game or any fun .. seems to me Spain should take what they are offered and prosper from it .. as for the 4 vs 1 its sad that you picked to ally with the Danes , French and pirates who seem to have no stomach for a fight once things went against them Spain and its allies were quite happy to boast about their prowess when they were taking British ports every night ..the french and Danes even made a treaty with Sweden and dutch to protect their home waters whilst helping Spain attack the British ..now thats reversed you all whine about how unfair it all is ...i would suggest you get over it take whats offered rebuild your fleets and then maybe we can have some more fun ....thats what gaming is about after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundgemunkey Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Exactly. At this point, is VP to decide how far he wants to go ........ Spain will not assign ports of Cuba ...... If VP considered to have the northern ports of jamaica is enough, it will stop . But to be clear that the redcoats are not going to stop ........... His arrogance subsides only if the other humiliates ............ And this with the Spanish not going to happen ......... Jejejejeeje Spain does not have to assign anything we have them already .. so your not giving anything ..just demanding ..your not in a position to make demands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Spain does not have to assign anything we have them already .. so your not giving anything ..just demanding ..your not in a position to make demands Sorry, maybe assign is not the best word....... sorry my english........... mabe better are........... "spain will not renounce to ports of cuba".......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 than spain will have to come and take these ports from us :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 than spain will have to come and take these ports from us :-) Or not........ now.............. But we will not renounce to do it........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knobby Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) I think the Spanish are confused about what are terms and are demands. Terms are what two or more parties of roughly equal position and strength can agree on, or alternatively when one side is clearly stronger but it is willing to concede out of good will. Demands are what you can make when you clearly have the upper hand and the other side is in no position to do anything about it . At this moment Spain should be happy to be able to negotiate terms, and is in no conceivable way in any position to issue demands at all. And just to make it even clearer: wanting 30 ports (or even 50 as i also heard) currently held by the other side while losing multiple ports daily is not negotiating terms, it's is making demands you can not ever back up. PS: People should stop shouting about reducing any nation to 1 port, it's bad for the game and no fun for anybody. Conversely, Spanish captains should stop taking these seriously as the leaders and representatives of Dutch and British have repeatedly stated that reducing to 1 port is not the goal. Edited July 24, 2016 by Knobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Or not........ now.............. But we will not renounce to do it........... dont get me wrong Alvar: This is a "wargame". I had alot of fun fighting for the ports on south cuba. You guys are welcome to attack the ports and give us a fight here. But dont expect us to give up any of those ports without a fight :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praefect Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) we will never surrender nor accept your humiliating peace conditions This humiliating terms would be, that spanish nation gets 6 ports instead of the demanded 30. You fight for profit, we fight for honor. All ports the dutch conquer will be given back to the spanish side if spanish nation agrees to a treaty. Don´t see a profit for us here good sir. Edited July 24, 2016 by praefect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Keep the hammers at work. Iron when hammered becomes steel, harder and flexible. i will have to correct you on this one: steel is an alloy of iron and (mostly) carbon. you can add other elements to achieve certain properties. if you just keep hitting iron with a hammer it becomes brittle and brakes. it does certainly not miracously turn into steel ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) dont get me wrong Alvar: This is a "wargame". I had alot of fun fighting for the ports on south cuba. You guys are welcome to attack the ports and give us a fight here. But dont expect us to give up any of those ports without a fight :-) I only expect a lot of fun fighting hard and honourably to recover those ports when we have enough players to do it.............. Of course this is a game man....... don't worry..... Edited July 24, 2016 by Alvar Fanez de Minaya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietjenoob Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) i will have to correct you on this one: steel is an alloy of iron and (mostly) carbon. you can add other elements to achieve certain properties. if you just keep hitting iron with a hammer it becomes brittle and brakes. it does certainly not miracously turn into steel ;-) and would in the end damage the ship and crew by blowing up after a couple of shots. if it was real, possibilty would be the ship would sink by the amount of cannons explodes and schrapnel or at least a ship without cannons Edited July 24, 2016 by pietjenoob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I only expect a lot of fun fighting hard and honourably to recover those ports when we have enough players to do it.............. i would like that :-) but in the meantime, take the 6 ports we offer out of good will, accept that you were beaten both in battle and the overall war. i think there is more honor in accepting defeat than there is in crying on the forums that everything is unfair and making heroic posts on how you will become a nightmare for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 i will have to correct you on this one: steel is an alloy of iron and (mostly) carbon. you can add other elements to achieve certain properties. if you just keep hitting iron with a hammer it becomes brittle and brakes. it does certainly not miracously turn into steel ;-) Really you wanna be friend of us???........ With comments like this????......... kill poetry is not the way....... You just killed a kitten........... so you know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Really you wanna be friend of us???........ With comments like this????......... kill poetry is not the way....... You just killed a kitten........... so you know...... what makes you think i want to be your friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundgemunkey Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I only expect a lot of fun fighting hard and honourably to recover those ports when we have enough players to do it.............. Of course this is a game man....... don't worry..... the treaty proposed gives spain a chance to take a breath and recover ... and a chance to build so you can fight hard .. we all want a strong spain to fight against . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) i would like that :-) but in the meantime, take the 6 ports we offer out of good will, accept that you were beaten both in battle and the overall war. i think there is more honor in accepting defeat than there is in crying on the forums that everything is unfair and making heroic posts on how you will become a nightmare for us. 1 we're losing, everybody knows, the map says, the numbers also say so.. But the war is not over. 2 Really it seem I'm crying????. 3 We will be a nightmare for the redcoats..... not for you. Depending your attitude....... You wanna win us or exterminate us???.... This is the moment that VP must decides.... British have it clear, but............... I think is not a good idea to break some bridges before the wipe.......... Just my opinion, of course..... Edited July 24, 2016 by Alvar Fanez de Minaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) 1 we're losing, everybody knows, the map says, the numbers also say so.. But the war is not over. 2 Really it seem I'm crying????. 3 We will be a nightmare for the redcoats..... not for you. Depending your attitude....... You wanna win us or exterminate us???.... This is the moment that VP must decides.... British have it clear, but............... I think is not a good idea to break some bridges before the wipe.......... Just my opinion, of course..... i am one of the "redcoats" im afraid. we dont want to "exterminate" you, hence the diplomatic efforts to negotiate terms with you. if the winning side offers to give ports to the loosing side i really dont understand why that is referred to as "humiliating terms" british side could easily demand ports from spain in order to not take even more ports. no one has done that (as fas as im informed), bu instead offered to give some ports back to spain. Edited July 24, 2016 by Chimera 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 i am one of the "redcoats" im afraid. we dont want to "exterminate" you, hence the diplomatic efforts to negotiate terms with you. if the winning side offers to give ports to the loosing side i really dont understand why that is referred to as "humiliating terms" british side could easily demand ports from spain in order to not take even more ports. no one has done that (as fas as im informed), bu instead offered to give some ports back to spain. Muahahahaha......... Sorry......... I thoug you was from VP........... XD sorry, I never use words "humiliating terms"..... I think...... Not use words from others against me...... Spanish faction is reduced at this moment to a less than half due holidays......... I don't know who is the person that negotiate, but, believe me.......... this is not best moment for anything........... Next month, worst........... XD Until september, you will have a red carpet........... but............. In September we will be all of us again........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral J. Swigglebottoms Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Great Britain is still open for negotiations, however it should be noted that there indeed should be a rework of the demands of Spain. When elaborating on the Spanish demands to the nation, a resounding resentment and insult could be felt. At this moment the Spanish Crown is in no position to make such large claims. As soon as the Spanish Crown seems it fit to continue the talks of a ceasefire and its terms, we would happily join the discussion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltonos Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Audio of diplo meetings here:Regards and emjoy the summer and game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietjenoob Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Audio of diplo meetings here: Regards and emjoy the summer and game! who are the participants? maybe also the text of TS Edited July 25, 2016 by Mirones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenakha Kan Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 who are the participants? maybe also the text of TS Praefect, go see a doctor and go to bed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltonos Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 From Spain: Senhor Lenhador as diplomatic Pepepotame as guest. Myself and my JCV-radiocassete recorder, as witness I can remember: Dutch: Praefect US: Erickilla <--Left the meeting soon. Sorry,cant remembers the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeheil Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 The Brits (and the very well represented Dutch) are looking at peace for no reason other than to help Spain retain their community/playerbase. The US/Swede/Dutch/Brit alliance won over 20 ports in the last 3 days and twice that in the last 2 weeks. Spain have defended valiantly, their allies have simply not supported them as well as their enemies have supported each other. The Brits are looking for a buffer (around Jamaica) so that should Spain decide to attack (announced or otherwise) they must first attack the buffer, this to some extent means that the 'victors' in this current war WIN the right to protect their homeland from a future war !! The Spanish seem to be negotiating as if they hold the ports they have lost. They talk of 'having to surrender' ports they have already lost. Spain is losing, unyet they expect ports 'given back to them', they try to negotiate as if they are winning....they need to have the realisation they are losing. In the west they want TWENTY FOUR PORTS handed over to the Spanish from Ysil to Truxillo, the Spanish didn't hold these ports, they were held by Brits or Pirates over the last four months (originally Aussie/German Brits...then when the Aussies went to the Black, they were held by the pirates) recently the pirates have been trying to screen their own ports to let the Spanish take them, the Brits (Oceanic timers) have had to beat a combined Pirate/Spanish force to return these ports to red. And lets not forget for 4 months these ports were on the 10-14 timers (to support Oceanic/Asia play) and when Spain come they put them to 16-20 (4am to 8am !!) for Oceanic/Asia players. Hats off to all parties though for trying to negotiate. I would suggest listening and perhaps taking the theme of Praefect's advise and defining areas of conflict for a 'gentlemans war' Agree to fight over Portilo to Escondido, agree to fight over the caymans but no further into Haita/Jamaica from the Spanish and no further into Cuba for the Brits. I think that from Truxilo to the Florida keys...that huge arc covering the west and north of the map, its open warfare. After all we need to test land in port battles soon !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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