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Food supplies - advanced warning

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Seems like provisions should be looked at as a platform for future content and/or a way to influence OW mechanics, not as a stand alone feature, otherwise it seems a bit superfluous. But thats just my take on things.

Edited by Potemkin

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I have no problem with BP

But if ppl prefer consumables that can work too.

Provisions and Repair Kits, player made, scaled to ship rate with option to autoequip at berthing, similar to world of tanks, to minimize micromanagement.

 

Any ot these CAN work. They WILL promote OW activity and player interdependence.

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The added advantage of consumables vs BP, however, could extend to the need to supply a fleet in operation further from base.

Consumables whether they are provisions, repair kits, ammo, would have to be stockpiled as a depot or 'base of operation' to support any extended campaign in an area remote from home turf. 

Introduces a bit of strategic logistics, line of supply, support fleets, OW interdiction. 

Edited by Horror

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Why are some ppl not reading what the OP say?

 

The supplies are not a cunsumable item whih you have to replenish every few months at sea.

 

Its a fix constant which you have to pay once per ship per this vessel's lifetime.

 

Well I had the same misunderstanding, its a bit confusing the way it is written down by the devs, that and also the discussion about how long 6 months ingame would take in real life. So no hate on whoever misread that. You have put it down more clearly then the devs (no hard feelings).

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You guys (Devs) should check out the old Sid Meiers Pirates.

It was a cool little game back in its day, also with a need for food supplies.

It worked quite well too, but it wasn't a one off buy, you had to buy enough food for the duration of your trip.

This was also offset by the size of your crew. More crew = more food needed.

Crew used to mutiny if you spent too long at sea too, as well as lack of food.

Was quite cool feature making you manage your time at sea, rather than just sail direct A to B.

It also had storms that reduced your ships sailing capabilities too, due to sail and hull damage.

Bit shitty by today's standards, but it had a lot of the simple little features that made it interesting and they solved the problems of everyone maxing out the game quickly then not playing any more.

Please disregard as necessary.

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I have the flu so my lovelieness filter is low.

 

This seems a bit crap. Why would you 'build' provisions in.

 

Do it betterer !!

 

Crafter perhaps can 'add an OPTIONAL' extra component (need more of these) such as "Additional Provision Store" or some such, advanced galley etc.

Then you need to BUY provisions for your ship as a consumable that goes down after X days at sea, as you come close to your 'max' distance with provisions, you go to rations and start to get attrition until you eventually hit starvation where you get LOTS of attrition.

 

Now all this assumes we want 'food' as part of the game...which in itself is an interesting thing...could be seen as 'fuel'...could be seen as non-fun-adding-realism.

 

Of course if a provisioned ship had 'basic rations (gruel n salted pork)' versus medium rations 'gruel, fish and salted beef' versus deluxe rations 'biscuits, fish, poultry and pigs' with perhaps a 'cook' officer and this had some tangible effect on the crew's moral and performance...well NOW we are talking...

 

IRL sailors could bring on chickens and the like to be slaughtered with their 'mess' for food.

 

So...in my non cotton wool fluffy bunny dolphin speaks...do it properly or don't do it at all !

Love this idea, and really love the closing statement, do it right or don't bother.

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(ps we seriously think about rethinking refilling repair kits as they bring no value in long term gameplay and forces you to click once in port and then 2 times after every battle on OW)

 

You shouldn't be able to fully repair your ship at sea, that would mean carrying a ship worth of parts, which can't be done by a warship. Make full repairs only at port, Repair kits repair up to a certain value.

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I dont like the idea, just seems like an unnecessary feature that adds nothing but another menial task to do and adds nothing game play wise. same with the cannon ball thing that was also suggested, adds nothing game play wise and is just tedious and unnecessary. REMEMBER Realism ≠ fun.

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1.you will prolly get a few new production buildings

 

The way it's implemented, though, just increases the ship construction cost in a way that's treated the same as planks and carriages and ballast.

 

It's kind of like if admin said, "Good news, everyone! To make construction costs more realistic, I have added nails to the construction. You must turn iron into nails and use a new building to produce the nails."

 

It adds a new step to the ship construction phase but I'm not sure what adding this level of detail has really accomplished. If a ship is supposed to cost 100,000 gold worth of "stuff" to build, I'm not sure it matters if you break that into 10 discrete items that must be assembled into the final product or 12 discrete items. At one end of the spectrum we could just have 1 production building that literally makes "SHIP PARTS x1". At the other end you can break it down into every conceivable part, including nails and barrels and metal hoops for the barrels and dried apples and paper and ink and quills and lanterns and individual lantern parts....

 

Food supplies seems to add a couple new break-out parts to the recipe but I'm not actually sure what it has done for the game or what the point was.

 

 

I could see the point if it became an operating cost, though admin may have a point that operating cost doesn't matter in a game where most ships don't live for 30 days. I suppose it really just adds a bit of realism to "what makes it so expensive to build a ship" -- that initial supply loadout being a big part of it -- but gameplay-wise it seems like a bit of a non-feature. Could just sell "SUPPLIES" in NPC stores and we have to buy 120 of them to build a 3rd rate or whatever and call it a day.

 

We could also just assume that this is really what we're paying for when we use "notes". (One might also argue that if I was building a ship I literally did not expect to last a week on the sea, I would not load it with 6 months of supplies.)

Edited by Slamz

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I have the flu so my lovelieness filter is low.

 

This seems a bit crap. Why would you 'build' provisions in.

 

Do it betterer !!

 

Crafter perhaps can 'add an OPTIONAL' extra component (need more of these) such as "Additional Provision Store" or some such, advanced galley etc.

Then you need to BUY provisions for your ship as a consumable that goes down after X days at sea, as you come close to your 'max' distance with provisions, you go to rations and start to get attrition until you eventually hit starvation where you get LOTS of attrition.

 

Now all this assumes we want 'food' as part of the game...which in itself is an interesting thing...could be seen as 'fuel'...could be seen as non-fun-adding-realism.

 

Of course if a provisioned ship had 'basic rations (gruel n salted pork)' versus medium rations 'gruel, fish and salted beef' versus deluxe rations 'biscuits, fish, poultry and pigs' with perhaps a 'cook' officer and this had some tangible effect on the crew's moral and performance...well NOW we are talking...

 

IRL sailors could bring on chickens and the like to be slaughtered with their 'mess' for food.

 

So...in my non cotton wool fluffy bunny dolphin speaks...do it properly or don't do it at all !

+1

One should have to think about how to equip a ship. Food, weapons, how much crew, Marines, room for cargo... to have the right or wrong setup for what one wants to do. Using all storage room and max weight should make your ship slower. Best food for high moral costs more...

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Admin, I thought you were joking when you said you were going to add fishing first.

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14397-nations-should-rally-against-the-pirates-before-its-too-late/#entry266713

 

How you describe food being added as a simple ship blue print commodity adds only a very minor refinement on something where we have no problems.

 

While there is much more that can be gained gameplay wise by adding food. A little Google search brings up:

 

http://www.britishfoodinamerica.com/Our-First-Nautical-Number/the-lyrical/Food-at-sea-in-the-age-of-fighting-sail/

 

Which talks about different quality of food for different nations.

 

https://savoringthepast.net/2013/03/22/18th-century-sailors-food-ships-provisions/

 

Which goes into the actual weight of food provisions.

 

I'm sorry to say, we are wasting precious time here instead of focusing on the bigger things (which can potentially be fixed by baby steps :) ).

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In game terms it means that by the time you lost your ship you will still have enough provisions. We wanted to eliminate unnecessary hassle of constantly refilling provisions for active pvp or pve players, but wanted to add it as a resource to bring ship role of ship maintenance and crew to more historical levels (compared to ship building costs).

 

So, resource and labour costs of ships increase, and every blueprint now includes a 'PROVISIONS' segment, and the crafter collects resources like salt, fish, meat, grain, fruit, suchlike and possibly assembles materials - kegs, barrels, salted beef, biscuit, beer, stuff like that. Okay.

 

A few points:

a) there was not a single ratio of crew size to stored provisions for historical ships. This was a point of difference, for instance, between British and French naval doctrine; British ships were built for extended deployments, carrying considerable provisions for a moderately sized crew, while French ships were built as more of a response force, with larger crews and much poorer capacity to store provisions. Provision storage related to role and naval doctrine much more than to crew size.

 

B) The effort to make crew more of a resource seems like something that could go hand-in-hand with consumed provisions - the idea of consumed provisions being too much fuss and hassle doesn't ring true given that players already return to ports with some regularity to top up on repairs kits - and also missions and, one assumes, hired crew.

 

As an example of a consumed provision system: consumed provisions could replace out-of-combat repair kits, with provisions being depleted only gradually in normal sailing and then more rapidly post-battle while running repairs are made and wounded crew recover. This replaces the click and confirm rapid repair with a more organic 'regeneration', while preserving the in-combat repair kit. A ship not carrying provisions (not loaded at all or all expended) is assumed to be on short rations - it no longer regenerates in this manner and if engaged only a minimal crew is healthy enough to actually take part in the battle. While there would be a need for an affordable, all-purpose provision, there could also be quality provisions that convey some advantage (a diet of meat, bread, and beer for fast repairs, a more varied diet with fruit and vegetables for better wounded crew recovery, heavily preserved rations might be depleted slower because less of it spoils but provides no other advantage, grog and rum ration upgrades could become buffs maintained by consuming the appropriate provisions).

 

c) The stated intent is to increase the cost and relevance of ship maintenance compared to ship building. Blueprint provisions does not add an element of ship maintenance, it simply adds the lifetime maintenance costs of a ship to the existing ship building process. On the face of it, blueprint provisions seems to go against the intent of this idea.

 

As regards Admin's suggestions for disappointed captains, though I don't count myself as disappointed:

1) It would be a very short-lived ship that did not completely revictual or resupply at least once; it was a piece of game logic that ships did not need to revictual, assuming that the first full load of provisions would last the lifetime of the ship does not add a simulation, it replaces it with a different piece of game logic.

2) Gradual repair and recovery would remove 'did I forget to repair' as a simple blunder while adding a dynamic of fresh ships, weakened ships still recovering, and exhausted ships that still look for all the world like they have teeth but are extremely vulnerable.

3) Already mentioned, but players do return to port for other reasons and probably will return to port to replace dead crew or recover crew from captured prizes.

4)Because when you log off your ship is in port and much of the crew has shore leave.

5) Why not? Unit crafted cannons and an ammunition mechanic are a great way to remove some of the artificial trader/warship distinctions and make things like double shot or grape and ball viable options.

6) Now you're just being facetious.

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Provisions that need to be replenished could also be a useful way to balance uneven faction strengths, in the same way that the devs want to with crew availability; weaker factions might have access to more food supplies in their ports, giving them greater ability to sail attack fleets further. Stronger factions might find shortages of food, hindering their ability to sail their 1st rates halfway across the map to stomp on beaten factions.

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Add the PURSER warrant officer to the ship build, an automatic addition in the form of a warrant officer responsible for supplying the ships crew with goods , clothing and food throughout the commission.
Forget completely (For the moment) about ongoing provision requirements per crew size, voyage length, miles sailed, time in game etc etc. The devs want to bring in the extra econ feature and ship build component so why muddy the waters for the moment with the why's and the wherefores.

In game terms now
When commissioning a ship (With its extra provision costs and associated econ work), the ship comes supplied with a Warrant officer in the officer slot in the form of the Purser or "the clerk of Burser" an older term. (In latter and army terms a quartermaster). For the moment this is a none moving, none impact icon but gives credance to the changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purser

In future game terms

We can all persue finer ongoing provision requirements at a later stage of the test period, If all this does is create lots of small boat fishing fleets to be witnessed around harbour and coasts that may or may not be player sailed, and may or may not be interactible is immaterial. On clear and mucky weather fishing fleets were a common sight near towns and villages and will add some flavour to the open world views. (Just as a matter of interest, fishing boats were considered neutral and not to be attacked by any nation)

 

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What's the point of adding another money sink for production buildings and ships ? Things could be much more original and better if this was done more realistically, and not necessarly demanding in terms of micromanagement.

 

I thought the goal of food was to increase bigger ships operating costs, and not just crafting value. We don't really need more ressources - there are enough as it is. But something that can contribute to the gameplay.

 

- Which quality of food ? Basic food doesn't cost a lot, but doesn't provide benefits either. 

- Which quantity ? Filling more means they can last longer, but it takes up space in hold.

- For port battles, maybe transporting food would be necessary in order to simulate the fact you need to feed a lot of soldiers.

- Faction specific food ? 

- Ports that produce different kind of food, which can be combined to make special meals for the crew ?

- Officer that have different cooking skills ?

 

Eh we could think of a lot of things. Ultimately we could also just make "buy provisions for x days at sea, the higher number of crew the more you need. Autorefill at port unless option is not checked."

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Why should this be something the ship builder has to put in rather than adding another upgrade row and letting captains equip it with the permanent food upgrade of his choice that crafters make and sell like other resources or the captain can craft? Then if he wants to upgrade or downgrade he can change it.

That would be a permanent hassle free food upgrade that also can be crafted and changed or upgraded and that makes it acually important to the economy instead of just another burden on ship builders.

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I have the flu so my lovelieness filter is low.

 

This seems a bit crap. Why would you 'build' provisions in.

 

Do it betterer !!

 

Crafter perhaps can 'add an OPTIONAL' extra component (need more of these) such as "Additional Provision Store" or some such, advanced galley etc.

Then you need to BUY provisions for your ship as a consumable that goes down after X days at sea, as you come close to your 'max' distance with provisions, you go to rations and start to get attrition until you eventually hit starvation where you get LOTS of attrition.

 

Now all this assumes we want 'food' as part of the game...which in itself is an interesting thing...could be seen as 'fuel'...could be seen as non-fun-adding-realism.

 

Of course if a provisioned ship had 'basic rations (gruel n salted pork)' versus medium rations 'gruel, fish and salted beef' versus deluxe rations 'biscuits, fish, poultry and pigs' with perhaps a 'cook' officer and this had some tangible effect on the crew's moral and performance...well NOW we are talking...

 

IRL sailors could bring on chickens and the like to be slaughtered with their 'mess' for food.

 

So...in my non cotton wool fluffy bunny dolphin speaks...do it properly or don't do it at all !

 

So much of this.

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Ach! 

 

Really not sure about all this. I just want to go out (and I can confirm the guys in my clan are of same mind) fight, return. Just seems to be another obstical to PVP, add to this crew management, Ach!

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Well since there are more things we need to craft will we also get more maximum labour hours and also more per hour?

I mean it's already hard to craft but if we need to craft those things too it's starting to get insane.

I would hope we also get more buildings than only 5...so we can grow our own foods and supply our clan with resources

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Well when I asked about extra buildings earlier in this thread the devs responded with fishing from ships, not buildings.  I wish we had more too.   :rolleyes:

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Well when I asked about extra buildings earlier in this thread the devs responded with fishing from ships, not buildings.  I wish we had more too.   :rolleyes:

So then we will have to deal with scurvy since I can't have my orange and papaya plantations :(

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I dislike the food supply idea. It doesnt bring sighnificant value but just adds an excessive mircomanagement. You dont add crew hiring yet but think of food supply already! Deal with more important goals at first, pls!

P.S. The idea of food supply blueprint looks awful !

 

You want to be a Naval Captain? Then manage your ship in all kinds of ways, and face the challenges that real captains faced. I think it will add value by improving trade, production and opening other avenues in the game for those not so hardcore action players looking for something else. It is a consumable that must be produced, a great item to trade with. And I am sure that the devS are busy working on the other goals already, but they are a bit more complicated than this. This is a quick add, that can bring allot to the game.

P.S. If you cannot suggest anything better, then rather don't say anything.

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