Crew management update - discussion

[Skully]

The no teleport ship idea could be good even though it will suck having to sail a new ship to outposts, so will just need to build multiple shipyards in Freetowns.

Hence I say, AI captains. We all know how they sail, so you will be taking a big risk letting them sail a ship to an outpost. But it gives you a choice, do it yourself or let it be done with all the risk it entails.

[Glazo]

Ships that you capture will have to have crew to be transported back to port

- This is a BIG change, so if a clan wants to operate in say Panama and they had previously been in say Haiti, thats a 90 min sail PER ship they want to be down there !!

- I would really like the ability to send a capp'd ship or even a ported ship to a help port via some sort of time delayed convoy or some such. I dont have 4-6 hours a week to be sailing around just to move ships

 

This! Currently ratio "action vs OW sailing" is low enough in NA.

[Hethwill]

This! Currently ratio "action vs OW sailing" is low enough in NA.

 

If we count all the players that refuse any fight (( unless they are with far superior numbers )), absolutely, you are right. Your ratio is only looking at 2 things while it should look at the player choices, which is what the game offers.

[majorhandicap]

I'm ok if I can't teleport a ship, but I need a way to transfer a ship from one port to the next without me needing to sail it, or send a prize crew onto the ship and tell it where to go.

 

I've got only chunks of time to game. If I have to burn most of that time every time I build a ship or cap one moving it to an appropriate place on the map, it's not going to be worth it to me. I'll spend too much time sailing, or I'll spend too much time in combat to move anywhere and I won't be able to move the things I want to do forward.  

[B4N4N4J0E]

Let me give you some straight facts to help your insightful analysis - maybe you will be jumping to conclusions less in the future

 

The biggest drop in Steam ratings was when NPC ship capture for all ranks was disabled on 12th April land patch. The game dropped from 87 to 81 in a couple of weeks. We also know that there are users who loved their personal fleets (which were disabled in Jan) and want them back.

Some might say that it was because of 1.5x BR limit and such but reading the negative reviews we see its not BR its removal of capture. We listened to people asking to remove npc capture and paid for that.

 

And whatever you say about PvP and such is wrong.  All PvP games are in fact PVE. EvE is a PvE game despite what people say. 

 

Example

Stats for May 2016 for EvE are the following

• 250 mln PVE kills
• vs
• 630 thousand PvP kills

source: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2016-05

 

Hope this clears for you what real pvp games are about (those numbers are from the month during which huge war was happening against goons btw)

 

Ratio of pvp to pve is higher in naval action (no highsec). But still PVE is dominant

 

So if you are a hardcore PvP player, I suggest you start nurturing pve players, embrace them and sometimes lose to them on purpose (like a pro-boxer, who wants to get matches) to help them learn and stay in the game. Because if you don't have them you will have no-one to fight with.

1. Communication between the devs and the players could not be better. This is just one example. Thx for that.

2. Fleets are ok as long as they are not really usefull besides escorting a trader or in pve.

3. There should be an option to send a ship to a port. It should sail on ow. The crew which is sailing it, counts from your Limit. For example: Send 50 sailors away in a lgv, u have 50 less on your santi. U may lose the ship, it might be sunk or captured. No ship teleport.

[Pagan Pete]

Pagan Pete is HIGHLY doubious of this. We tried limiteed crew once in closed aplha... the effect was to Tie everyone to the docks. 

It will NOT be good for long distance sailing, it will not be good to have fleets again - making merchants invulnerable to attack.

 

I say.

1. Leave the crew be.
2. Remove AI fleets all together. 

 

PS. We are tired if pyrates smashing all nations in port battles, but huge ai fleets would prevent pyrates from doing the ONE thing we actually want them to do! Stealing merchants wares.

[Chimera]

I dont think that taking away AI fleets will get people to do more PVP.

If I want a rather risk free little fight I'm doing a mission or fight an AI fleet and I enjoy the possibility to do it. I don't think that removing it will get PVPers more fights. It will just lessen the amount of overall battles done in the game.

[Anne Wildcat]

I believe he means not AI fleets on the OS but AI fleets tied to players.

[Magnum]

Disagree with you on this one. Introducing new game mechanics when virtually no existing mechanics have been ironed out is part of the problem. Combat mechanics including armor values, penetration values, mast strength, sail strength, chain damage, raking damage, boarding combat, marines mechanic, grape shot effectiveness, gun loss, port battle maps, port battle timers, teleports, new non-craftable mods, political system (and this includes a laundry list of features)....NONE OF THESE ARE IRONED OUT. Now, we want to introduce officers with all sorts of crazy bonuses, double shot, double charge, and a whole new requirement to manage our crew?! This is like game development by someone with a serious case of attention deficit disorder. Every single new feature that is introduced or existing ones that get re-worked causes a massive ripple effect through the entire game.....these various features are all inter-dependent with each other. Something that worked just fine can be rendered broken due to a change in a completely different mechanic.

 

snip....

 

In the second part here you talk about how every new feature introduced has a massive ripple effect and that features are interdependent. But in the first part you seem to want older parts settled before newer parts are introduced - two mutually exclusive engineering concepts

 

Take cars - sure you test the tires first to make sure they will hold up to the speeds you expect your car design to achieve - but, you really need some kind of tires in place to test the suspension on the track even at low speeds - then you might also find you need better brakes.

 

You can really only test some things with the completed car - a pile of parts won't cut it.

 

We really need to start seeing all the parts of the game in the form of a completed game even if some of the parts don't fit perfectly - then the finer adjustments can begin.

 

-----

 

I am looking forward with great anticipation to this "part" of the game coming out for it's close up

[Macjimm]

Thanks Devs for this massive proposed improvement to the game. Good evidence that you are listening to the testers and acting on evidence of the way the game is played. Crew management, capture and fleets are a very important part of the game.

I like the suggestion that Musiko24 made and noticed that many other players have liked it also.

A small suggestion for this update: allow the option to send captured ships sailing under AI control back to a port of your choosing, with your prize crew onboard. The ship would sail on the open world, in real time, in just the same way as AI fleets currently do.

This way, you won't have to return to port yourself with every capture, but you risk your AI-controlled captured ship being intercepted and taken/sunk while it's sailing on the open world. This gives you a choice; look after the ship on its return yourself, or let it sail itself at greater risk of losing it.

Perhaps when officers are introduced, you would need to assign an officer to command the ship in order to have it sail under AI control?

I seem to remember that the Devs were not supportive of AI sailing players ships but rather the captured ship must become part of the players fleet.

It's impossible due to the number of players - because they will never arrive then.

Bots sail slower, under crewed bots will be easy targets. No point to even do this because it will be a fake feature.

We believe that captured ships should be brought back to port by the player. Even Sid Meier's Pirates had this.

Please reconsider this as I would dearly love to have my capture sail back under AI power. Players could provide escort - even teams of players. The best scenario would be to allow players the option to have the capture part of ones fleet or to send it off to sail independent as an NPC.

Even if the bot is stupid and doesn't sail intelligently or quickly I would dearly love to have the option to let the AI try. It's really just another choice that could be effective when there are only just a few enemies about. It could be really fun to shadow the NPC on its way back to an outpost and protect it. Or take the risk and let it make its own way, by itself.

And thanks for removing teleporting.

The idea of pressing crews from captured ships into service is good. Allowing players to swap crew members, officers, cargo and even ships is fantastic. Moving cargo between ships (of ones own fleet and friendlies) would be really cool too

Edited June 5, 2016 by Macjimm

[Fastidius]

people do realise this means you can't cap enemy pvp ships anymore yeah...because as soon as you pop out of battle you have enemy around you from them saying come help in TS.

 

The whole idea is novel but effectively broken.

 

concept is nice but reality will prove it to be wasted time.....

 

 

 

cap a santi in a port battle.  Lose 2 of them getting home as they are both  undercrewed and surrounded.  all this will do is make people not capture anything unless it is an AI trader withing 3 minutes sail of their home ports...

Edited June 5, 2016 by Fastidius

[Hethwill]

people do realise this means you can't cap enemy pvp ships anymore yeah...because as soon as you pop out of battle you have enemy around you from them saying come help in TS.

 

 

 

Odd. I am very very sure this exact same event happens already. Only major difference is that you slot the capture ship to some warpgate.

 

With the change you will have to rethink the captures. Are they worth it ? Are they not ? Can you spare the prize crews ? Are you buddies willing to escort you back ?

 

I like that part. Will be the same with trade raiding.

[Magnum]

people do realise this means you can't cap enemy pvp ships anymore yeah...because as soon as you pop out of battle you have enemy around you from them saying come help in TS.

 

The whole idea is novel but effectively broken.

 

concept is nice but reality will prove it to be wasted time.....

 

 

 

cap a santi in a port battle.  Lose 2 of them getting home as they are both  undercrewed and surrounded.  all this will do is make people not capture anything unless it is an AI trader withing 3 minutes sail of their home ports...

 

Try this: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14485-hiding-in-battle-screens-solved/

[Strugelwits]

can't wait, I will wait till I have tested it to give any constructive criticism. 

[_X_Apophis_X_]

 

This will KILL the game. Period.  You require a player to ship their 1st rate from KPR to Great Corn?  Yeah, see people leave.  Please don't do it.

 

-Ski

 

Do not sail alone sail go in a fleet, Clan escort, wait till people/friends are available to escort.

[Fastidius]

Do not sail alone sail go in a fleet, Clan escort, wait till people/friends are available to escort.

so Wait is the active word there....not play..wait

[Balsafer]

I really wonder what people are doing when they say they gotta sail for 5-6hrs everyday to find a battle or sail back to port? What are you doing sailing 5 hrs away from the nearest port? I mean from what it sounds you or your clan does not plan ahead? Maybe once or twice a week I sail for more than 20-25 minutes due to clan orders.  I have outpost setup where Im needed so I just have to click a button and im there and from the most part i just took 1 day to set those outposts up.  

 

Seriously if you want pvp go sail out near enemy ports find a freeport make a outpost one day sailing more than 20min, boom done never have to sail again to find pvp  Want PVE? grab a mission at the capital port sail 5-10min per mission.  

 

 

Stop trying to make the Developers dumb the game down or turn down a actual good idea because you can not manage your time. 

so Wait is the active word there....not play..wait

 

Surely it is not that difficult to find a few people to sail with. After all you are in a clan.

[victor]

Nelson could not teleport captured ships to Portsmouth. 

People were exploiting this feature like hell. Starting from pirates using surrender, or nations using NPC traders or smugglers. Its time to let it go.

 

Nelson was not PLAYING a GAME for FUN in SPARE TIME!.

 

Please guys, if you do not realize that ... well, you'll see yourself what is gonna happen to this game. Summer approaches.

Edited June 5, 2016 by victor

[Fastidius]

I really wonder what people are doing when they say they gotta sail for 5-6hrs everyday to find a battle or sail back to port? What are you doing sailing 5 hrs away from the nearest port? I mean from what it sounds you or your clan does not plan ahead? Maybe once or twice a week I sail for more than 20-25 minutes due to clan orders.  I have outpost setup where Im needed so I just have to click a button and im there and from the most part i just took 1 day to set those outposts up.  

 

Seriously if you want pvp go sail out near enemy ports find a freeport make a outpost one day sailing more than 20min, boom done never have to sail again to find pvp  Want PVE? grab a mission at the capital port sail 5-10min per mission.  

 

 

Stop trying to make the Developers dumb the game down or turn down a actual good idea because you can not manage your time. 

 

Surely it is not that difficult to find a few people to sail with. After all you are in a clan.

The point is we don't sail 5-6 hours a day now because of teleporting and ship teleporting......the best change in the game over the last 2 months has been no timer on teleports.

 

I think the argument is that the Devs want us to sail our ships to FOB rather than teleporting them which to be honest sounds to me like a huge timesink with zero excitement and fun.

The other byproduct is that capturing ships means we get depleted crew and have to sail as a fleet of sub par crewed ships. 

 

The whole problem with this concept is it detracts from combat and goes for more time sinking ...it isn't immersion its frustration.

 

[Captain]

The point is we don't sail 5-6 hours a day now because of teleporting and ship teleporting......the best change in the game over the last 2 months has been no timer on teleports.

 

I think the argument is that the Devs want us to sail our ships to FOB rather than teleporting them which to be honest sounds to me like a huge timesink with zero excitement and fun.

The other byproduct is that capturing ships means we get depleted crew and have to sail as a fleet of sub par crewed ships. 

 

The whole problem with this concept is it detracts from combat and goes for more time sinking ...it isn't immersion its frustration.

 

 

Sounds fun though right?

 

The game will be more fun after this change than before, right?

Edited June 5, 2016 by Captain

[Fastidius]

Sounds fun though right?

 

The game will be more fun after this change than before, right?

 

It might be on a dual screen PC where you can play something else while your sailing for no apparent reason.

 

There is a reason the phrase "AFK Sailing" is commonly used.   the AFK doesn't stand for "awesomely Fing Keen"

Edited June 5, 2016 by Fastidius

[thp]

Let me give you some straight facts to help your insightful analysis - maybe you will be jumping to conclusions less in the future

 

The biggest drop in Steam ratings was when NPC ship capture for all ranks was disabled on 12th April land patch. The game dropped from 87 to 81 in a couple of weeks. We also know that there are users who loved their personal fleets (which were disabled in Jan) and want them back.

Some might say that it was because of 1.5x BR limit and such but reading the negative reviews we see its not BR its removal of capture. We listened to people asking to remove npc capture and paid for that.

 

And whatever you say about PvP and such is wrong.  All PvP games are in fact PVE. EvE is a PvE game despite what people say. 

 

Example

Stats for May 2016 for EvE are the following

• 250 mln PVE kills
• vs
• 630 thousand PvP kills

source: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2016-05

 

Hope this clears for you what real pvp games are about (those numbers are from the month during which huge war was happening against goons btw)

 

Ratio of pvp to pve is higher in naval action (no highsec). But still PVE is dominant

 

So if you are a hardcore PvP player, I suggest you start nurturing pve players, embrace them and sometimes lose to them on purpose (like a pro-boxer, who wants to get matches) to help them learn and stay in the game. Because if you don't have them you will have no-one to fight with.

 

Posted 08 March 2016 - 02:33 AM

I will try to give a simple exemple that s very easy to understand :

Right now it s a democratic process,  everyone are fighting with almost equal weapons, everyone can have a sword even if it s just a rusty sword, now you want to remove it,makes  only the elite people can use a sword, the commun people will fight with a knife, what will you think it will happen when someone using a knife fighting against someone using a sword ?  Actually that s how it works in real life during the Dak Age, only the elite class like knights can have a sword, the commun payseant arent allowed to use it.

But this is a game, do we really want that kind of elitism in the game ? For some people like you who probably think it s the right way by trying to favour the few elite players. By my experience of playing some games from the past, the games that favour the elite( by by Pay-to-Win or by any other ways), at the end the commun players just all leave because there s no way and no fun to play with a huge disadvantage that gives zero chance to win , everyone know the result of the battle even before the first engagement. In a while only a few elite people will stay but at the very end they will also all leave because it will be boring for them too.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11652-are-3rd-rates-too-disposable/page-3

 

I still dont like the 12th April land patch that disable capturing ships because the things I already explained before, even if that patch has made me rich as Croesus because I did level up my crafting skill to max level.

Some people always want to make the game mechanism change into something that favours them only and dont really care about all others. In my opinion, it could never be good to favour some few elite.

I know some players that left the game because they complained the game is a bit slow to find battle. Maybe adding more difficulty on crew management will make the game even slower and discourage even more people.

[Captain]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11652-are-3rd-rates-too-disposable/page-3

 

I still dont like the 12th April land patch that disable capturing ships because the things I already explained before, even if that patch has made me rich as Croesus because I did level up my crafting skill to max level.

Some people always want to make the game mechanism change into something that favours them only and dont really care about all others. In my opinion, it could never be good to favour some few elite.

I know some players that left the game because they complained the game is a bit slow to find battle. Maybe adding more difficulty on crew management will make the game even slower and discourage even more people.

 

It will for sure. 

[Hethwill]

It took me five hours, loooong ago, to half circumvent the map, along the coast, from Dutch Capital to Key West. I visited all Free towns along the way, had a chat with a pirate, ran from another, found some US guys and had a nice talk. Five hours of exploration and sight seeing, while listening to TS port battles in the Dutch-French war of long ago.

 

I did, back then establish 2 outposts in that half world trip, 1 at Great Corn, another at Key West.

 

I do not believe for a second anyone travels more than 1 hours to go to ANY frontline. It takes that much time AT most to Setup an outpost in a free town.

 

Unless you have all your outposts clustered in on place - I bet you do for you craters greediness - it is no issue and I think it is highly rewarding to go one, ONE, session on exploration and circumvent the map and Setup outposts where you need them, especially...ESPECIALLY if you crave pvp so much.

 

From those forward bases you can hit and effectively capture, if you like capturing ships so much, enemy ships and bring them back to your forward base.

 

No one is messing with the game. But surely it messes with some players Comfort. Time to adapt.

 

Same thing happened last big patch. Traders had to adapt. No more cargo teleport. Now it is time for the "troopers" to adapt.

[Cid Pahlavi]

It would be batter that there would be another way to force your enemy to surrender except boarding.