Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Crew management update - discussion


Recommended Posts

Well i guess it all depends on you look at the meta game... is it a "shooter" where only skills is important or is it more of a strategy game with "action sequence" It seems most want only the shooty part and not the planning part.

 

Lets pretend a scenario

 

You sail far away of your base, you decide to harass other nations... you get caught but manage to survive but limping, an your way back someone know you there and they start hunting you.... This to me is a fun scenario even if eventually get caught because of lesser crew

 

what some people want is : I have a big club.... I want to squash you... and keep squasshing because not squasshing time is not fun and please don`t bent my club....

 

I agree that for now the non-squasshing time is not that fun all the time, but i trust with better RvR element it will be more important...

 

Oh and on a side note, remember that when dev throws idea like that at us, its just that it`s an idea for down the road (typically 2-3 months away I assume) and it will get tweak a ton before it get in the game and a ton more afterward...

Edited by ulysse77
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off i would like to see proposals for crew-loss mitigation and replenishment.

 

I would also ask will crew ever become sick? During combat will they be wounded but be able to return to service?

 

Will there be shipwrecks (Randomly or specifically) that players can enter the instance to search for surviving crew or leftover supplies, modules, or money?

 

Well crew have different values of morale based upon how they came to be employed? Trained from their home country, Trained from a Colony, Captured Crew, Prisoner Crew, etc.. ?

 

Are Marines apart of this "crew" number tally per nation or are they calculated differently? Will there be different types of combat infantry such as Militia/Irregulars, etc..?

 

Will crews or marines have veterancy level?

 

Example ideas for crew-loss mitigation and replenishment may include:

 


  • Ship Surgeons, Doctors, Apothecary, Medical Apprentices, etc.. for an "officer slot", crew slot, or a module slot


  • Module - Expanded Sick Quarters - Expanded Surgical Quarters which would be a similar idea to extra hammocks but in the idea that this area of the ship could attend for more sick or injured and be tiered based on the quality of the mod


  • Module - Sterile bandages, Extra Bandages, Herbal Remedies, Herbal/Topical Handbooks, Medical Remedies, Trauma Handbooks, Medical Journals, etc..


  • Module - Fresh Rations, Cured Meats, Citrus Rations


  • Port Building - Drill School


  • Port Building - Field Hospital / Naval Hospital


  • Game Action - Press Gangs - Additional crew can be purchased to fill vacancies but for additional costs (perhaps lower morale)


  • Ship Crafting - Hospital Ship (to sail with the group) injured crew can be transferred to the player and then transported to a port.


  • NPC Ship - Capture Crew - Perhaps portions of crew or maybe specifically ships of your own nation (with contraband) who are NPC's can be captured and some of the crew may join your nation's stockpile.


  • Privateering Profession - Similar to the idea above but this position would be Exp. based and these players must be licensed by their nation to privateer for their faction. In doing so this profession could be limited to the only players capable of capturing NPC (perhaps even player) crews and transporting them to a capital/regional capital to enter to the nation's crew stockpile. With Privateering level it could give perks such as unique ships, higher percent quantities of crew captured, additional money for capturing ships, etc.. This profession could be a means of re-populating a nation's crew stockpile.

 

 


 

 

Will captains have traits/stats/bonuses? Will there be missions or achievements to improve these?

 

Will players be able to overcrew their ships more if they change how it is equipped? Can i take off some cannons to add more Marines? 

 

Can i add more crew at the expense of speed or turning?

 

Can i posses marines under my influence and leave them posted at a specific harbor?

 

What happens when most of the crew is tied up by players who are offline?

 

Can players who prefer to do crafting or trading voluntarily take fewer crew from the stockpile so that they can leave the extra crew for the fighting ships?

 

Nobody can control who or how many join a nation/faction. Are all these new players going to tie up crew too? What if players have alt accounts doing it to hurt a nation on purpose?

 

 

Will the crew stockpile only be effected by players online?

 

Can crews be shipped/sent/requested from the homeland country/nation?

 

 

Can i share my crew with my friends or with my clan?

Edited by Woody051
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not looking forward to this 'feature'.

 

AI fleets were a pain, and became a frustration in PVP. Was bad enough when they were 2x cutter, now it seems they can be bigger ships.

 

The inability to send ships to outposts seems like a counter step to the new TP system, but I suppose this could also have benefits in preventing the almost instant defensive fleets we encounter in enemy waters.  Would have to see how this works but ultimately I think it will degrade PVP.

Anything that forces you to return to port between battles is a move in the wrong direction in my opinion and will simply add to frustration, particularly if a fleet is in enemy waters and is forced to seek out a free port (which could be large distance) before he can enter another battle at full strength.  If you are going to do this, then you'd be as well taking out repair kits also, or make repairing at sea take time. I thought the point of repair kits was to allow the player to get back into the fray quickly.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what it boils down to is realism vs. pvp fairness & player convenience.. Admin said a 1000 times they go realistic with NA, so yeah..

yeah and during the prime time there are only around  ~800 online on pvp1 because of that ;). Drop by 1/3 (1 week ago around ~1000, 2 weeks ago around ~1200)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need to add a "teleport ship between outpost" feature that is a gold sink or something. Before any of this time sink stuff you have proposed here. 

 

Using capture to move ships between outposts is and has always been a core game mechanic, the way human beings actually play and enjoy your game. 

 

I don't know why you think people will spend hours sailing ships between places when they used to be able to spend a little time finding a trader to capture and teleporting it. People won't. People weren't willing to spend another 30 minutes to sink a ship when they used to be able to do it faster, look at the response to your last "make everything take longer" change. 

 

Are you going to change the name of your game from Naval Action to something reflecting the lack of action and bigger focus on reenacting the lengthy tedium of historical sailing? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crew limit stays

+ cost to replace crew (which did not exist before)

 

Assuming if 2 santis in a fleet are allowed. 

Rear admiral will have 1100 crew limit So if he sails 2 santis he will have 550 on each. (or any other combination he picks with a slider)

 

So I can take out my fleet of twenty ai cutters I guess  :rolleyes:

 

Guess we will be shifting the focus back to more AI controlled fights instead of true pvp....thought we had finally banished the idea of that after very thorough testing and feedback. Ugggh.....this whole plan sounds like a very large step in the wrong direction unless NA is re-positioning into more of a PVE title.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1 BUT.. You should get a %(say 15-25% of the killed) of lost crew back as they are never really all killed.. many are just hurt and out for short period... Also for captured ships the same... Then assign 10% of that ships crew from your ships as prize crew to sail it home.. That crew couldn't fight the ship but could sail it...

 

   You also need to seriously look at the Morale/Boarding system.... Far to many times a crew is still fighting when it is at 1 Morale and outnumbered 2-3:1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Guess we will be shifting the focus back to more AI controlled fights instead of true pvp....thought we had finally banished the idea of that after very thorough testing and feedback. Ugggh.....this whole plan sounds like a very large step in the wrong direction unless NA is re-positioning into more of a PVE title.

 

Let me give you some straight facts to help your insightful analysis - maybe you will be jumping to conclusions less in the future :)

 

The biggest drop in Steam ratings was when NPC ship capture for all ranks was disabled on 12th April land patch. The game dropped from 87 to 81 in a couple of weeks. We also know that there are users who loved their personal fleets (which were disabled in Jan) and want them back.

Some might say that it was because of 1.5x BR limit and such but reading the negative reviews we see its not BR its removal of capture. We listened to people asking to remove npc capture and paid for that.

 

And whatever you say about PvP and such is wrong.  All PvP games are in fact PVE. EvE is a PvE game despite what people say. 

 

Example

Stats for May 2016 for EvE are the following

  • 250 mln PVE kills
  • vs
  • 630 thousand PvP kills

source: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2016-05

 

Hope this clears for you what real pvp games are about (those numbers are from the month during which huge war was happening against goons btw)

 

Ratio of pvp to pve is higher in naval action (no highsec). But still PVE is dominant

 

So if you are a hardcore PvP player, I suggest you start nurturing pve players, embrace them and sometimes lose to them on purpose (like a pro-boxer, who wants to get matches) to help them learn and stay in the game. Because if you don't have them you will have no-one to fight with.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding fleet what about having a mechanic where you choose which ship engage with you and which stay back and act as a support to replenish your crew after battle

 

 They already have that in teh fleet mechanic from lower rank... I would expect they just use same code with bigger ships... 

 

 

 Although I would hope that if we get player fleets back they make it so they can NOT enter Group Missions or Port Battles... We do not want actual players blocked out because 2 or 3 guys have an extra 2-3 AI ships each...  

 

  Player fleets shoul only be for Open World and Solo mission running

 

  JUst my 6 bits

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Repeating my question feom earlier today:

Will a prize that I captured and that is sailing in my fleet in OW automatically be repaired at sea or will it keep the huge amount of damage (what it will have fore sure when it has been capped before)?

If it won't be automatically repaired it would be a quite easy target if an enemy is attacking my fleet, e.g. when I have demasted the prize when I capped it before. In that case my prize will show up in battle without any masts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just had a thought and not sure if I missed it in the responses.. But this losing crew and having to go back and hire more is going to make the Mission system basically worthless... I just lost 70 crew to gun fire on a Bellona through undamaged sides from range(over 250m)  If we are looking at those kinds of crew losses you can just limit us to a single mission at a time no need for 3 now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just had a thought and not sure if I missed it in the responses.. But this losing crew and having to go back and hire more is going to make the Mission system basically worthless... I just lost 70 crew to gun fire on a Bellona through undamaged sides from range(over 250m)  If we are looking at those kinds of crew losses you can just limit us to a single mission at a time no need for 3 now...

 

 

Naval Action  Crew Management and Hours Long Sailing :(

 

 

NA Is already time-consuming enough, please developers do not make any more changes that increase time sinks or introduce new time sinks. 

Edited by Captain
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find interesting that everyone is considering taking every ship as a prize, given from the comments on the long sailing ( is not that long with an outpost nearby ).

 

I might play differently but you guys always prize every ship ? Because with this new way of playing it might be worth revieweing that choice and what is worth or not keeping.

 

I know for certain I won't risk my main ship and any amount of loot just to save a prize ship. I'll fill my cargo hold with what I can and sink the prize.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find interesting that everyone is considering taking every ship as a prize, given from the comments on the long sailing ( is not that long with an outpost nearby ).

 

I might play differently but you guys always prize every ship ? Because with this new way of playing it might be worth revieweing that choice and what is worth or not keeping.

 

I know for certain I won't risk my main ship and any amount of loot just to save a prize ship. I'll fill my cargo hold with what I can and sink the prize.

I agree.. but I think it should be a slight change in outposts...

 

   You should be able to TP your self between ALL ports your nation owns... but you can only have 1 ship in them Unless you have an actual outpost there..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 They already have that in teh fleet mechanic from lower rank... I would expect they just use same code with bigger ships... 

 

 

I meant be able to choose to not have them at all in battle with you... ( but i guess you can tell them to retreat in battle, can`t recall been a while since i use fleet)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me give you some straight facts to help your insightful analysis - maybe you will be jumping to conclusions less in the future :)

 

The biggest drop in Steam ratings was when NPC ship capture for all ranks was disabled on 12th April land patch. The game dropped from 87 to 81 in a couple of weeks. We also know that there are users who loved their personal fleets (which were disabled in Jan) and want them back.

Some might say that it was because of 1.5x BR limit and such but reading the negative reviews we see its not BR its removal of capture. We listened to people asking to remove npc capture and paid for that.

 

And whatever you say about PvP and such is wrong.  All PvP games are in fact PVE. EvE is a PvE game despite what people say. 

 

Example

Stats for May 2016 for EvE are the following

  • 250 mln PVE kills
  • vs
  • 630 thousand PvP kills

source: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2016-05

 

Hope this clears for you what real pvp games are about (those numbers are from the month during which huge war was happening against goons btw)

 

Ratio of pvp to pve is higher in naval action (no highsec). But still PVE is dominant

 

So if you are a hardcore PvP player, I suggest you start nurturing pve players, embrace them and sometimes lose to them on purpose (like a pro-boxer, who wants to get matches) to help them learn and stay in the game. Because if you don't have them you will have no-one to fight with.

 

 

I believe the community was complaining about captured 3rd rates being so available for port battles and that wars never got anywhere because 2 hours later any ships lost were basically recaptured.   Your decision was to stop capping on every military ship.  The issue was people were paying for 1st/2nd rates and being attacked by a never ending amount of disposable 3rds.   Futurama refers to this as the zap branningan maneuver and the same out come happened. 

 

All you needed to do is remove duros, make non permanent upgrades not loseable and let them cap 4ths down. Making all ships uncappable was a serious gameplay change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think only capping Trades to keep was a good move... Heck I would be happy with not getting the Trader ship if the entire cargo it was carrying transferred to my closest Warehouse.. then just pay me for the ship like for warships.  But if we capture the final dura on a player ship it should include all installed none-human based upgrades... as I have mentioned before.. the Copper plating or extra Muskets didn't fall off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find interesting that everyone is considering taking every ship as a prize, given from the comments on the long sailing ( is not that long with an outpost nearby ).

 

I might play differently but you guys always prize every ship ? Because with this new way of playing it might be worth revieweing that choice and what is worth or not keeping.

 

I know for certain I won't risk my main ship and any amount of loot just to save a prize ship. I'll fill my cargo hold with what I can and sink the prize.

Decades ago I used to play D&D with this player that would collect weapons from every encounter we defeated. I used to picture his character looking like a porcupine with swords and daggers stashed all over his body. I used one of his extra weapons as a door stop once but that was the most use they ever got.

In NA pvp players have the same tendency to try to collect every ship. In truth most will never sail a one dura ship into serious pvp because they can't use their gold mods on them. I'd bet most capped ships end up just being sold to the AI or broken up. I have no intention of capping every ship I defeat and sailing back to port for storage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me give you some straight facts to help your insightful analysis - maybe you will be jumping to conclusions less in the future :)

 

The biggest drop in Steam ratings was when NPC ship capture for all ranks was disabled on 12th April land patch. The game dropped from 87 to 81 in a couple of weeks. We also know that there are users who loved their personal fleets (which were disabled in Jan) and want them back.

Some might say that it was because of 1.5x BR limit and such but reading the negative reviews we see its not BR its removal of capture. We listened to people asking to remove npc capture and paid for that.

 

And whatever you say about PvP and such is wrong.  All PvP games are in fact PVE. EvE is a PvE game despite what people say. 

 

Example

Stats for May 2016 for EvE are the following

  • 250 mln PVE kills
  • vs
  • 630 thousand PvP kills

source: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2016-05

 

Hope this clears for you what real pvp games are about (those numbers are from the month during which huge war was happening against goons btw)

 

Ratio of pvp to pve is higher in naval action (no highsec). But still PVE is dominant

 

So if you are a hardcore PvP player, I suggest you start nurturing pve players, embrace them and sometimes lose to them on purpose (like a pro-boxer, who wants to get matches) to help them learn and stay in the game. Because if you don't have them you will have no-one to fight with.

 

Well to be clear I made no mention of ship capturing being a good or bad thing. I understand why people like it and I understand why some are against it.....I don't really care too much about that one way or the other to be honest. I do know though it is a very big issue for a lot of other players out there and the change in the April 12 patch was a pretty big one. Same thing can be said about the 1.5 BR mechanic change that was introduced at the same time....no dispute from me there on that one either. However, in my opinion the changes to those two mechanics probably had more to do with the player drop than the change to limiting player AI fleets. I remember very well the discussions leading up to that change where the large majority of pvp'ers complained that what should have been pvp fights were, more often than not, being ruined by player AI fleets. This seems like a mistake to reintroduce, at least on the PVP server.

 

I am also very aware that most mmo pvp games also have a strong pve component. In NA you are always going to have it, even on the PVP server, because the risk/reward system is so skewed it is to be expected. You can make way more money and loot with virtually no risk fighting NPC's than what you will get going out only looking for PVP. The entire game is slanted toward this so of course you are going to see more PVE lol.

 

My question was more about what direction are we taking Naval Action? Because, from the beginning this has been a game that was supposed to be PVP focused with PVE elements available. The devs have countless remarks on various threads stating changes that have been made in an attempt to promote PVP. All this time I thought that was what we were trying to produce...an Age of Sail game that emphasized PVP with PVE elements. When we start introducing ai controlled fleets that outnumber actual players in a fight than I'd say it is a move away from this idea.

 

Just my opinion but I think the diminishing number of players has more to do with a perceived lack of progress on various key game mechanics as well as some of the massive changes to core combat mechanics that went out the last few patches. The entire port battle and diplomacy system is in desperate need of progression. People are leaving because instead of looking at things and being able to see progression toward a more finished state with major game mechanics they see constant flux with parts of the game that nobody really had issue with. I have almost 2,400 hours in game....I'm not trying to run NA down or the job you guys have done. Just the opposite....I obviously enjoy it and want to help make it a success.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts on this :

 

Crew will have to be hired for certain price for the sailor

- Good start, moral, veterans etc would be even betterer.

 

Crew will be lost if you sink or blow up

- sounds fair enough

 

Crew will become persistent between battles

- this all comes down, to how many battles, typically, do you think you could fight without HAVING to go back to port. If you have to re-port after each mission then QQ

 

Players will be provided with 40 free sailors at the start of the game which cannot be lost (to support new players), this number could go up with rank up to a certain limit

- I would imagine someone capable of crewing a 1st rate should be able to always crew a 4th rate with their minim. crew or some such.

 

Crew will be available for hire in all ports that you can enter

- So no national limit yet ?? With this patch it will simply be a money sink ?

 

Crew will have to be assigned to ships that you capture to be able to use them

- Makes sense.

 

Ships that you capture will have to have crew to be transported back to port

- This is a BIG change, so if a clan wants to operate in say Panama and they had previously been in say Haiti, thats a 90 min sail PER ship they want to be down there !!

- I would really like the ability to send a capp'd ship or even a ported ship to a help port via some sort of time delayed convoy or some such. I dont have 4-6 hours a week to be sailing around just to move ships

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A small suggestion for this update: allow the option to send captured ships sailing under AI control back to a port of your choosing, with your prize crew onboard. The ship would sail on the open world, in real time, in just the same way as AI fleets currently do.

 

This way, you won't have to return to port yourself with every capture, but you risk your AI-controlled captured ship being intercepted and taken/sunk while it's sailing on the open world. This gives you a choice; look after the ship on its return yourself, or let it sail itself at greater risk of losing it.

 

Perhaps when officers are introduced, you would need to assign an officer to command the ship in order to have it sail under AI control?

This. Perfect.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like this update, but, any know how many time we need between a battle and another?  battle, back to port, look for hire crew, battle again. Maybe its take many time. For many people,, higs ranks level and craft, maybe no problems, but to new people????? batles, exp, money, craft, trade, back to port again and again? many time? i dont know..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about the permission to park one ship only in every port that belongs to your nation and have it transferred/delievered from there (this will take a while of course, maybe 2 days?)? Not everybody wants to sail with a 2nd ship in his fleet (or doesn't have the crew for it) but still wants to keep the prize instead of breaking it up or selling it and maybe your outposts are already full. You still have to sail your prize to a port but it doesn't have to be an outpost. To counter the possibility of parking one ship in every port around the map, there should be a maximum of ships you can park in national ports (5 for example)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Changed my mind,

The no teleport ship idea could be good even though it will suck having to sail a new ship to outposts, so will just need to build multiple shipyards in Freetowns.

As long as you please keep teleporting between outposts.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...