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Crew management update - discussion


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That sounds pretty perfect. Thanks. Would sailing undercrewed slow down OW sail time?

 

 

no

but there will be an organization penalty (reduced by officer perks)

 

+ wind curves matter - you fleet will sail at a speed of the slowest ship. 

Have you considered liking or disliking something by its own instead of looking what the people you don't like think of it?

 

 

 

Its ok to hate something other people love.

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crafters already are doing that. and in general they don't sail for hours.

 

 

+

Its always nice to see a good old double standard

  • pvpers wanted traders to sail demanding removal of teleport with cargo
  • but do not want to sail with captured ships

You don't need to sail for hours

You can bring your ship capture to the nearest free town - they are scattered evenly around the map - approximately within 20-25 min of travel from any populated area.

 

Ye and it's way safer for booty to rather go poof instead of tracking the horizon so that you won'T get caught with your pants down  ;)

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Your "us vs them" attitude on this is very refreshing. 

Have you considered liking or disliking something by its own instead of looking what the people you don't like think of it?

 

Yeah, this adds penalty to sinking. It therefore doesn't really concern PVE players. If this doesn't even affect you, don't you think it's a bit petty to like a change because it punishes someone else?

 

and "PVP players" aren't sailing around exclusively in big ships.

 

I suggested removing teleportation of ships months ago, and forcing people to tow or something like it captured ships back to port.

Check my posts if you don't believe it. Admin doing this is simply something I agree with and have wanted in the game for a long time, and to be honest with you I hate the idea of capturing ships risk free, which will now be gone, thankfully.

 

Edit; Also I'm a very avid pvper, I was among the first rear admirals on the server and was very active on the PVP front, fighting pirates, danes, spanish and chasing the french out of our territory when they teamed up with the spanish.

This has nothing to do with me "not liking pvp players", because I am one myself.

Edited by Alan Demarest
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In general, players' ships automatically sailed by AI in OW from capture location to outpost or from one outpost to another could be interesting.

It could great meaningful PvE and free up time for PvPers.

 

I really think this is a fabulous and needed idea. Instead of ships "teleporting" to an Outpost they should AI sail there, (with a small cost for prize crew) in the Open World. If they get there, then great....

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You salute the rank not the man

paraphrasing this - you critique the ideas not the people. You won't get far by attacking people on the forums. 

 

I have 1920 hours and only pvp, next time watch what you say and how you say it. 

 

Regarding afk sailing. 

You don't need to AFK sail to plymouth. You can teleport there yourself using outpost and use your ships you have there. 

If you don't have ships there sail them there once.

If you are losing them often there maybe you should teleport a crafter there (you don't need a ship to do it).

Crafter then can build ships for you there and you can use smugglers to transport goods to plymouth.

 

By doing so you will have a lot of pvp, because you will need protect your smugglers + you will have ships in that port.

look I understand you think that the game should be realistic,

 

If you don't have ships there sail them there once.....this is the fundamental issue ...you think sailing multiple ships (you now have 3 types of PBs plus OW PVP which is probably different ship) is fun?  spending what maybe 6 hours to sail ships to set up for a series of battles and the the damn things are undefended.....where in that 8 hours did i have fun.  Talk all you like about you 1800 hours but of my 800 hours about 50 of them have been in actual contested PVP.....not the ratio you should be looking at.   In the last month i have done approximately 25 empty port battles.  and 4 contested. I am a big fan of the game in some sense but it is far from a PVP game.

 

Again it is a very big map and I don't see how your hours and my hours can be so different. 

 

I applaud the PVE changes like fleet missions even though i don't understand why it isnt 1 order and a scaling system that doesnt give my side AI.....that was a great addition,  Removing the XP grind at the same time you create it is a bit silly though....thus the rear admiral density issue.....half the issue about 1st rates is because everyone can crew them...you cant fix something when it is the norm.

 

Do i think you have a good game.....potentially......do i think you have some good development coming ....YES  do i think you have some development ideas i disagree with YES.   Do i think you ignore community comment YES.  Pirates are the obvious example.

 

half the guys that have left the game in our gaming community are of the opinion that you have lost your way on a good starting point. the other half are just waiting to see what comes...

 

I have 800 hours in the game and am an officer in one of the most active clans on PVP1....don't talk down to me and i wont talk down to you.

Edited by Fastidius
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Couple of things:

- Will you leave the 'Send to Admiralty' so that you just collect the gold but not the ship?

- Allow a 'Fleet' to stack up on boarding meaning I can still do something about those OP boarding ships by having 2 or even 3 ships undercrewed defend from the attacker?

- Medkits are a MUST HAVE.

- Add Surgeon Upgrades to the game. (Higher crew recovery %)

 dsc040581.jpg

 

Like the idea over all but non persistent crew has to be tested. My first thought is that I'll sail out to a battle, get my crew reduced by 30 to 40% and have to sail back to port. Turn off PC and off to bed. Not very exciting :(

But I fully understand where you are coming from so why not give this a try.

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Will a prize that I captured and that is sailing in my fleet in OW automatically be repaired at sea or will it keep the huge amount of damage (what it will have fore sure when it has been capped before)?

If it won't be automatically repaired it would be a quite easy target if an enemy is attacking my fleet, e.g. when I have demasted the prize when I capped it before. In that case my prize will show up in battle without any masts.

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In the last month i have done approximately 25 empty port battles.  and 4 contested. I am a big fan of the game in some sense but it is far from a PVP game.

 

 

You are still wondering that nobody defended the ports you mostly held and defended before your clan went pirate?

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satire? surely the 380K gold for a 2 -4 click fight is the incentive. currently we cap 8/10 ships in a fleet....the only reason 2 die is because we get AI on our side for no reason i can think of.

Have a very hard time finding PVP....we had a fight 1 night this week but i think we suprised them.....people avoid fights not look for them mostly

to expand upon my previous statement if you implement this with the current population you will make the game even more of a waste of time than it is now. atm we can't even find a battle now you want us to farm AI in PVP to earn crew? atmthe only way to get combat is to teleport ships or sail half the damn day trying to avoid combat to get to your destination. the best thing that has happened in recent time is removing the timers on teleports......it is unrealistic but it make the game far more playable. if you take away the ability to move ships between ports fast then you lose more than half my game time to avoiding combat to actually get to my destination....

If you make me farm AI then you make me sad. If you make capturing ships a thing again you make wars go on forever with no winners.....already duros is bad design now you want to introduce a system which forces people to grind...this is bad design. Make fun content not ways to stop it. realism is bollocks in these kind of things. THE BATTLE IS TO GET PEOPLE TO FIGHT not how many ways can we stop them. equal fights are good, why bring a new mechanic it to make it uneven?

I am all for you guys mucking aorund with ideas after your core game is functional and working but seriously Damage penetration changes are a bad thing to burn time on when the community says you have fires to fight elsewhere. Ram damage, leaks, Damage penetration....WTF are you doing this stuff when people sail to 25 port battles and get no defence......look at the issues not the feature at this moment then add fluff.

You don't think you might be crying wolf just a little to early on this? There is no functional pvp difference from you having x4 outposts you teleport your Trincomelee around and have x4 out posts with x4 Tricomelees stationed at each one. About THE ONLY functional difference is that you can't make that first trip out to your out post in a free basic cutter. Your actually going to have to risk sailing your valuable ships around. Which as a pirate, you should realize will increase your pvp potential when the 7 other nations start moving solo valuable ships, instead of basic cutters, to do the same thing. Edited by Bach
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You are rear admiral rank (allowing 1100 men)

You had 350 men on your ship when you sailed

You captured another frigate (for example losing no-one)

You transfer 50 men to another vessel (minimum required to sail the vessel)

This ship is added to fleet and sails with you (and you can give him orders)

Once you reach the port you can hire another 300 men (because your rank allows it) - and sail with 2 frigates.

 

I'm actually a big fan of this despite the AI being a pain in combat, solely for the ease of closing old outposts it would provide. Currently, we do already have to sail across the map to set up an outpost a good distance away from an existing one, so I'm not sure why people are complaining about making the sail as if it is something new introduced by these new mechanics. The nice thing is that instead of making that trip and then finding a friend (if pirate) or trader ships next to the port you want to move the ships from, you can sail the ones you want at the new outpost in one trip (Ex: I'm switching outposts but I have 3 ships in the current one, I just get the crew for my Mercury, Essex, and 3rd rate, add the Mercury and Essex to my fleet, and sail the 3rd rate to the new location). 

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You don't think you might be crying wolf just a little to early on this? There is no functional pvp difference from you having x4 outposts you teleport your Trincomelee around and have x4 out posts with x4 Tricomelees stationed at each one. About THE ONLY functional difference is that you can't make that first trip out to your out post in a free basic cutter. Your actually going to have to risk sailing your valuable ships around. Which as a pirate, you should realize will increase your pvp potential when the 7 other nations start moving solo valuable ships, instead of basic cutters, to do the same thing.

 

depends, do i think its a good idea....with a big population yes...boarders are good if they are contested.  With this population no.

 

Do i think it is a priority on the same level as democracy, pirates, Port battles, more carrot content...No i wouldnt even be thinking about it till i fixed the broken stuff i already had.

 

so i guess maybe i just dont thinkthey should think about anything else till they fix the broken stuff now.

You are still wondering that nobody defended the ports you mostly held and defended before your clan went pirate?

no im pointing out that it is an issue that needs fixing before you worry about new features.  even sailing around near KPR you dont see crap.  there is not enough density to support map size.

Edited by Fastidius
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depends, do i think its a good idea....witha big population yes  witht his population no.

 

do i think it is a priority on the same level as democracy, pirates, Port battles, more carrot content...No i wouldnt even be thing about it till i fixed the broken stuff i already had.

 

so i guess maybe i just dont thinkthey should think about anything else till they fix the broken stuff now.

no im pointing out that it is an issue that needs fixing before you worry about new features

We are getting a fix for that in the next patch that is estimated to come in less than 3 weeks at the moment.

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If you remember - we said some time before that current resources and welfare Gold for damage are temporary to provide everyone with enough funds to test the game better. I don't not think money for just shooting should stay in the game.

 

Most still sink ships anyway. 

 

The main choice is basically between

Crew is persistent

Crew is fake

 

That would be very disappointing. Right now, if you're outmatched (but not so much that you just lose in 5 minutes), it's well worth fighting back because you can still make good rewards from all the hull damage you inflict before you're taken down. Taking this away would mean if you get ganked, you just go full sails and go AFK or surrender, because no matter what you do, you'll walk away from that fight with 1 dura down, cargo lost and 0 gold from damage.

 

I remember a game that pursued this "maximum penalty for losing" approach. It made losers quit.

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Seems like a lot of "PVPers" are getting rustled they can no longer capture 1st/2nd/3rd rates at leisure and use magic teleport button to get them to safety.

I like this.

Of course, because it is literally the only thing that makes PvP materially more rewarding than PvE. If capping ships from AI is easy (it will be, and sailing AI captures back will be much lower risk) and capping ships from players is even harder (it is already hugely difficult to get to the point of capturing a player without even considering sailing the ship back to port when the enemy knows your exact position), there is no material reason to ever PvP.

The game is absolutely full of PvP disincentives and I lose / you lose exploits that ensure there are seldom clean, rewarding victories. Your chance of getting a clean PvP fight that results in a reward worth the time investment is very, very low. The majority of fights result in escapes or suicides with little reward for 1hr+ time investment. On the other hand, less than 1hr in PvE can net you high chance of mods and 1mil+ gold.

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Regarding less PvP comments:

if done right we believe that there will be more PvP because of increased traffic bringing valuable ships back home. 

 

the players won't play the game like u want they play. If they have to spend more time for dip shit which isn't fun, they won't play. Less player = less traffice = less PvP. U saw that mechanic several time now and u still believe that behavior will change ? If you want that such a mechanic will work, reduce the time which is needed for sailing

Edited by ITFHunter
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Although I fully support treating crew as a valuable resource that should not be thrown away carelessly or killed in suicidal actions, I am deeply ambivalent about persistent crew damage. It sounds like a way to punish victory, and seems largely pointless since you are already proposing (and everyone is demanding) medkits (health potions) and surgeons (healing clerics). If cleric and potions don't restore you to 100%, it is an incentive to return to port, so no one will be happy unless you can carry things to restore your crew to 100%. But that is as fake as automatic crew restoration. The only thing you are adding then is more obligatory (not optional or interesting choice) mods and an additional money sink (medkits and in port crew replacement). I prefer a mechanic whereby crew loss matters indirectly from battle to battle, e.g. tying loss of officers or crew experience to crew losses in battle, that way you can keep fighting on with a complete crew from one battle to the next, but there is a potential for losing something and an incentive to not throw crew away.

Also, if part of the design will be taking crew from defeated enemies, you will need to close obvious exploit to avoid having to pay for crew: I am short on crew, so pirate / smuggler teammate exits port on 1 dura ship and let's me attack him, he surrenders and I get 1 dura ship I can trade back and replenished crew. Simple solution: surrendering results in proportional crew loss to the other's gain (but loss and gain should be less than sinking / burning / fight-to-last-man-boarding).

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I am thinking that the negative effect of losing the TP option can be lessened by RETAINING TP but changing its ease of use and time spent.. Both the time between TP use and the time before a TP'd ship or person arrives at its destination can be seen as variables by the dev's, and tinkered with until the desired effect is reached.

 

I would be LESS likely to play much if I spent more time sailing without action. But I did enjoy having to plan the use of my TP option to get around to my outposts and my pre-positioned ships. Planning can be fun! AFK sailing is not fun. There has to be a balance!

 

Another variable as the game experiments and changes could be the durability number. I could see that making capped ships start with 2 durabilities instead of one would mean that having to sail the capped ship back, with the possibility of losing it, would still be acceptable if you ended up with that capped ship, back down to one durability. Just a thought - duras are not set in stone and can be manipulated to offset other game changes....

 

Just a few thoughts....

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Although I fully support treating crew as a valuable resource that should not be thrown away carelessly or killed in suicidal actions, I am deeply ambivalent about persistent crew damage. It sounds like a way to punish victory, and seems largely pointless since you are already proposing (and everyone is demanding) medkits (health potions) and surgeons (healing clerics). If cleric and potions don't restore you to 100%, it is an incentive to return to port, so no one will be happy unless you can carry things to restore your crew to 100%. But that is as fake as automatic crew restoration. The only thing you are adding then is more obligatory (not optional or interesting choice) mods and an additional money sink (medkits and in port crew replacement). I prefer a mechanic whereby crew loss matters indirectly from battle to battle, e.g. tying loss of officers or crew experience to crew losses in battle, that way you can keep fighting on with a complete crew from one battle to the next, but there is a potential for losing something and an incentive to not throw crew away.

Also, if part of the design will be taking crew from defeated enemies, you will need to close obvious exploit to avoid having to pay for crew: I am short on crew, so pirate / smuggler teammate exits port on 1 dura ship and let's me attack him, he surrenders and I get 1 dura ship I can trade back and replenished crew. Simple solution: surrendering results in proportional crew loss to the other's gain (but loss and gain should be less than sinking / burning / fight-to-last-man-boarding).

 

very good points, I think your crew would need somekind of experience "meter"... hte longer your crew are active or each battle won would add to that meter. If you replenish your crew with pressed member you would dilute your experience meter (remember the old experience meter for units in Total War, and refilling them with fresh recruit would do exactly that) Heck you could aslo run daily gunnery practice to raise your experience a bit ....

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I am thinking that the negative effect of losing the TP option can be lessened by RETAINING TP but changing its ease of use and time spent.. Both the time between TP use and the time before a TP'd ship or person arrives at its destination can be seen as variables by the dev's, and tinkered with until the desired effect is reached.

 

I would be LESS likely to play much if I spent more time sailing without action. But I did enjoy having to plan the use of my TP option to get around to my outposts and my pre-positioned ships. Planning can be fun! AFK sailing is not fun. There has to be a balance!

 

Another variable as the game experiments and changes could be the durability number. I could see that making capped ships start with 2 durabilities instead of one would mean that having to sail the capped ship back, with the possibility of losing it, would still be acceptable if you ended up with that capped ship, back down to one durability. Just a thought - duras are not set in stone and can be manipulated to offset other game changes....

 

Just a few thoughts....

 

As for TP, i really like what we have now for outpost to outpost without ship... As for the ship, why not make a ship deliverable like the ressources, with a long delay and hefty cost...

 

Still need to sail to open the outpost first, so i think that would be a nice compromise...

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ye, crew gaining experience sounds good.. However, while you as the player certainly won't be the only one on the OS with lesser crew than usual after battle I do agree with those who warn about the need to sail home that frequently.. I guess, we will test it, most will rage and devs will change it back eventually? Maybe they know something we do not yet? On one hand I do agree that it would be more realistic cause dead crew is dead and getting caught with your pants down is tough shit but on the other it kinda feels cheap to lose because of lesser crew.. 

 

I think what it boils down to is realism vs. pvp fairness & player convenience.. Admin said a 1000 times they go realistic with NA, so yeah..

Edited by BACk ALLEY ShENANiGANS
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