Crew management update - discussion

[Marc Crass]

I like these ideas in common. Really! But Devs, i think you ought to solve some issues simultainiuosly now:
1. Think how eleimanate the ganking for the damaged ships by "fresh" enemy ships after massive and port battles.
2. Deal with the current abordage balance with these ♥♥♥♥*ng exeptional marines, boarding parties etc when Trinco can capture even fresh ship of the line, say nothing of damaged one.

3. Think about multiple leaks when heavy ship collides with light or medium one (refer to abordage SoL by frigates).
4. Maintainance of user ships should drastically depend on rank and number of owned ships. It would be better for balance if any user couldnt maintain many ships at ports or at fleet due to bankrupt danger.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Marc Crass

[Wigermo]

.. i dont like this at all i already have to sail 20-30 min for a good battle that last 0-1h+ and now forced to go back between every fight. This is becoming insane, and with the announced provisions this just killed the game seeing the time investment needed just kills the fun

[Hethwill]

.. i dont like this at all i already have to sail 20-30 min for a good battle that last 0-1h+ and now forced to go back between every fight. This is becoming insane, and with the announced provisions this just killed the game seeing the time investment needed just kills the fun

 

Provisions will be needed to craft the ship. Same as Live Oak or any other wood. Same as Furnishings or any other parts.

 

It is not the same thing.

[Bach]

.. i dont like this at all i already have to sail 20-30 min for a good battle that last 0-1h+ and now forced to go back between every fight. This is becoming insane, and with the announced provisions this just killed the game seeing the time investment needed just kills the fun

I'm not sure this is accurate. I pvp probably as much as anyone here. Most battles don't actually tax my crew unless they are brutally close matched or I choose to board the target. The standard chase profile battle generally doesn't get much of my crew killed. Broad side to broadside slug fest will get my crew killed but at the end of those I am usually sailing to port to avoid the $100,000 gold worth of repair kit bill on repairs anyway. Now if I chose to board the target it's a different story in the chase. Any boarding will usually cost me 20% crew or more. Now if I'm capping a cargo ship the point is moot as I'm sailing it to port right after anyway. If it's a player combat ship it first needs to be one good enough for me to bother capturing. To be honest, most one dura player combat ships aren't going to be worth the effort on most occasions. About the only time I can think of that I regularly board a ship and do not want to come back to port afterwards is when doing missions and I want to jack up the gold by sending the ship to the admiralty. So maybe this is more of a PVE issue. For most pvp in the future I would just start using crew built ships with extra hammocks to be able to do sequential pvp actions.

[KrakkenSmacken]

You salute the rank not the man

paraphrasing this - you critique the ideas not the people. You won't get far by attacking people on the forums. 

 

I have 1920 hours and only pvp, next time watch what you say and how you say it. 

 

Regarding afk sailing. 

You don't need to AFK sail to plymouth. You can teleport there yourself using outpost and use your ships you have there. 

If you don't have ships there sail them there once.

If you are losing them often there maybe you should teleport a crafter there (you don't need a ship to do it).

Crafter then can build ships for you there and you can use smugglers to transport goods to plymouth.

 

By doing so you will have a lot of pvp, because you will need protect your smugglers + you will have ships in that port. 

 

Additionally with a ship yard there, you won't have to ship supplies manually, just use the free port deliveries system. Of course that costs you resource points, and the expense of setting up a ship yard, but fleet mobility should have a trade off.

 

Since the no cargo TP to capital change, I have been doing exactly that.

 

Now if we were able to hire real AI ships that had to actually sail to the location, rather than the magical cargo transport, and it took away from our crew limits while it was active on the sea, all cargo would be exposed to travel at some point.

 

I would really like to see that.  No harm in say setting up an AI shipment before going to bed/work, and coming back to find the AI made it, or didn't (with action report).

[KrakkenSmacken]

Put to sea in boats and left to fend for themselves. Or, if there are too many crew for that...something unpleasant happens to them.

 

Or, they can be carried in your hold as prisoners, until returned to port, where they can be pressed or ransomed.

 

Actually, having the option to free, press, ransom, or execute prisoners, would be interesting...especially your choices had effects. Maybe you could have a "reputation" in game, along with the appropriate honorifics. If I'm nice to prisoners, I might become known as the "Honorable Captain Musuko", and enemy crews may be more likely to surrender to me, knowing they will get better treatment (mechanic of this would be a morale penalty for the enemy). If I slaughter them, I might be the "Dread Captain Musuko", and enemy crews might fight to the last, knowing they'll get no mercy.

 

I would also like loot and leave.  As in carry away as much cargo as I can hold, and set them back to sea in their own ship.

 

If that was tied to reputation, then yea a merciful pirate may have a much easier time getting a surrender, if the crew knew they were very likely to be released after a bit of hard labor hauling all the goods to the other ship while nasty pirates leered at them.

[DeRuyter]

I'm not sure this is accurate. I pvp probably as much as anyone here. Most battles don't actually tax my crew unless they are brutally close matched or I choose to board the target. The standard chase profile battle generally doesn't get much of my crew killed. Broad side to broadside slug fest will get my crew killed but at the end of those I am usually sailing to port to avoid the $100,000 gold worth of repair kit bill on repairs anyway. Now if I chose to board the target it's a different story in the chase. Any boarding will usually cost me 20% crew or more. Now if I'm capping a cargo ship the point is moot as I'm sailing it to port right after anyway. If it's a player combat ship it first needs to be one good enough for me to bother capturing. To be honest, most one dura player combat ships aren't going to be worth the effort on most occasions. About the only time I can think of that I regularly board a ship and do not want to come back to port afterwards is when doing missions and I want to jack up the gold by sending the ship to the admiralty. So maybe this is more of a PVE issue. For most pvp in the future I would just start using crew built ships with extra hammocks to be able to do sequential pvp actions.

 

+1  You know I think in all the posts in thread that is the first time this came up. Now if everyone complaining about sailing back to port, or more accurately "potentially" sailing back to port to replenish crew would just stop and think about how many times they have sailed back to port because it is cheaper to repair their damaged ship there, then  crew replacement wouldn't be an issue.

[Cmdr RideZ]

If you remember - we said some time before that current resources and welfare Gold for damage are temporary to provide everyone with enough funds to test the game better. I don't not think money for just shooting should stay in the game.

 

Most still sink ships anyway. 

 

The main choice is basically between

Crew is persistent

Crew is fake

 

So in the future, we have to always have boarding setup to get money from battles?

 

Gold boarding upgrades, will be even more important in the future I assume?

 

edit..

 

Or we still get money from Kills/Assists?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Cmdr RideZ

[Enraged Ewok]

So in the future, we have to always have boarding setup to get money from battles?

 

Gold boarding upgrades, will be even more important in the future I assume?

 

edit..

 

Or we still get money from Kills/Assists?

 

Personally, I thought having at least a basic-common marine module was a necessity now, and nearly always was. They give a minimum impact to your ability to fight your ship, but still give you the edge boarding edge over players that don't carry marines at all in lieu of their gold powder monkeys, toolbox, rum rations, pellews sights, and hammocks. Regardless, from what admin has said marines will most likely go from being a drop upgrade to another type of crew you can hire, allowing all players to carry their preferred setup of marines without relying on rare drops or having to pay exorbitant prices.

 

Regarding kills/assists, if you assisted another player in capping a vessel I would think you would get at least some of the prize money.

[CaptVonGunn]

Just add a version of the Goods delivery system to the game for ships...

 

  For Everyone Outpost to outpost...

 

  for Nations add Capital or Regional capitals you own to outposts

 

  for Pirates from Capitals or Free towns to Outposts...

 

 

  Have ALL captured ships and cargo become AI sailing to the port you want them at.. If they arrive great.. if not oh well that's war and the sea.

 

   Please please Please do not have all crew killed in combat gone till ship returns to port.. You do this all that is going to happen is people will log off in post battle screen and wait to rejoin game.. since if they even think the other side has people waiting outside it is stupid to leave that screen.

 

   You want to charge us for recovery of crew fine.. pay the crew fine.. but if all crew lost in combat is considered dead 100% this will make teh game unplayable in open world

[Michael Frost]

These updates will take?

 

I confess that I'm starting to get bored with the game. In conversation with some friends also players the feeling is the same ...

 

The truth is that sadly the PVE is completely abandoned, to the detriment of PVP. No varied missions without greater immersion without its own fleet without decent trade ...

 

For a change, when it appears a cool idea that will bring greater immersion and realism, PVP staff do not like because they think it will "take too long"

 

It's really sad ... Before you even buy the game (just seeing the videos on youtube) I have imagined that this would be one of today's best MMO, but unfortunately it seems that the game does not evolve ... seriously thinking to occupy space on my HD with something better ...

 

Sorry for bad english and the sincere outburst

[B4N4N4J0E]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14566-teleportingsending-ships-or-sailing/

 

I made poll about sailing yourself vs teleporting/sending ships.

 

Hopefully it helps to give a picture how players think on this topic.

[Captain]

So in the future, we have to always have boarding setup to get money from battles?

 

Gold boarding upgrades, will be even more important in the future I assume?

 

edit..

 

Or we still get money from Kills/Assists?

 

You see, in the real life in the past, you didnt get gold coins just for killing some ships, so it can't be in the game even if its fun. 

 

Happy to help. 

[0utR4g3]

Well in this case I would stop playing as the game will not be fun anymore PvE will rule supreme and I don't want to sail ships like sailors used to do this is a GAME for a reason 

[Hethwill]

Maybe it requires Victory in battle ? Mission successful ? Or maybe a end battle reward in a more complex Articles of War articulation.

 

Some captains did lose their ships in action but were deemed to be awarded promotion and even land titles following examination of the engagement reports, some of them even supported by the enemy captain's letters. They did act like it was established by their respective navy command even if they lost the ship.

 

Truly a wondrous age of gallantry with little to do with "power gaming".

 

Most probably a squadron ( under 10 ships ) commander would lose commission if the enemy would complain through diplomacy of having been "ganked". Almost certain that happened more than once in history in the age of sail.

[Cmdr RideZ]

To put it simply.

 

Boarding gameplay is extremely bad Rock-Paper-Scissors.  I am rather sure that ~everybody hates the system we have.  And most are using it because it is so ridiculously OP atm.

Shooting other ships with cannon.  Well, this one is very well done, I really like it, and I am sure most people like more from cannon fights than boarding mechanism.

 

Imho, boarding can be even removed from the game, until better mechanism is invented.  Or it can be simplified, to take X amount of time, and in the end who has better upgrades and bigger ship will win.  I mean, until you create a mechanism that has something todo with skill etc.

 

So if boarding will provide money and shooting does not.  Boarding is something that you really have to do, to earn money.  Hmm..  Why would I like to play the RPS boarding game?  Actually I do not want to play that utter crap boarding, and because the cannon fights would turn to waste of time.  It is rather hard to believe that this would benefit the game.

 

Before removing gold from damage/kills/assists, devs probably should think twice before doing it.

 

 

....

 

 

Edit.

Instead of sinking the ships, maybe when the situation looks grim..  The crew surrenders, before it sinks.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Cmdr RideZ

[Musuko42]

I confess that I'm starting to get bored with the game. In conversation with some friends also players the feeling is the same ...

 

The truth is that sadly the PVE is completely abandoned, to the detriment of PVP. No varied missions without greater immersion without its own fleet without decent trade ...

 

Don't be impatient. Game development takes YEARS.

 

Go play other games for a while and come back after a few updates.

[Uilleam]

Just as many people, if not more, complain because every time they try to undock and do a mission, or a trade run there's a gank squad deep in their territory waiting to attack them, and even if they fight that squad off they'll just repair and be back in a few minutes unless they sink every one. Going deep into enemy waters should be hard. It's what will make frontlines matter.. which will condense pvp... giving more fights without needing to teleport all over the goddam map.. and will allow traders and pve players some measure of security in their own waters. Try thinking beyond your own play style.

This is exactly why I think Freeports should be excluded from being a destination for captured ships. Freeport's are being used as havens as they can't be captured, and as military bases deep inside enemy territory.

For those that view the game ad primarily being about finding players to fight, this is probably fine, but if the game is more about strategy then it isn't. Of course, since nothing has been determined. So far as I know, about what it takes to win the game, both views have merit. I just think it would make more sense to not let captured ships be sent to free ports, and have more emphasis be on the front lines where nations have ports that are close to each other.

[HardyKnox]

You see, in the real life in the past, you didnt get gold coins just for killing some ships, so it can't be in the game even if its fun. 

 

Happy to help. 

 

Actually, the prize system under the Royal Navy during the time that this game is set, prize money was awarded not only for captures, but for sinking of particularly dangerous ships.

 

Also, sometimes private citizens and ship owners would provide a cash prize to the captain and crew that eliminated a nasty pirate or coastal raider that was hurting their trade.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_money

 

~ HK ~

[Hethwill]

Correct, but in very specific situations, with the highest degree of threat, was the sinking immediately considered valid without reserves and without much addo. French fleet bound to Ireland is one of those. And it was not 1 but several engagements given the split of the forces, gales that hit the two parts of the fleet, etc. A few officers received praise and prize. A lot of captures as well.

[PL_Harpoon]

I'm pretty sure that with a proper surrender mechanics we could eliminate rewards for sinking ships. After each battle prize money of a surrendered ship would be divided upon all captains based on damage they dealt to it.

This could also mean that if you surrender and your team will still win you do not lose your ship (unless the enamy managed to secure it which I'll explain below).

 

Also (I don't remember how it works now) you could cancel your surrender anytime during battle unless someone from the opposing team has send some men (you could do it by means of boats, so that you don't have to be stationary) to secure the prize. After that the ship will act just like AI merchant, doing all it can to escape from battle.

 

So, even if you've lost the engagement, if you manage to capture at least one enemy ship you can still get some money back.

 

The real problem with this proposed system is if the devs want to give us back ship captures. But then it too can be solved. The player, who did the most damage (boarding included) will decide if he wants to keep the ship or the prize money. The rest will get their share of money regardless of the first player's choice.

 

This will need extensive tweaking with values of hull vs sail vs crew vs masts though.

 

EDIT: Small corrections here and there.

Edited June 9, 2016 by PL_Harpoon

[KrakkenSmacken]

I'm pretty sure that with a proper surrender mechanics we could eliminate rewards for sinking ships. After each battle prize money of a surrendered ship would be divided upon all captains based on damage they dealt to it.

This could also mean that if you surrender and your team will still win you do not lose your ship (unless the enamy managed to secure it which I'll explain below).

 

Also (I don't remember how it works now) you could cancel your surrender anytime during battle unless someone from the opposing team has send some men (you could do it by means of boats, so that you don't have to be stationary) to secure the prize. After that the ship will act just like AI merchant, doing all it can to escape from battle.

 

So, even if you've lost the engagement, if you manage to capture at least one enemy ship you can still get some money back.

 

The real problem with this proposed system is if the devs want to give us back ship captures. But then it too can be solved. The player, who did the most damage (boarding included) will decide if he wants to keep the ship or the prize money. The rest will get their share of money regardless of the first player's choice.

 

This will need extensive tweaking with values of hull vs sail vs crew vs masts though.

 

EDIT: Small corrections here and there.

 

If on the select screen of the primary who had the option to capture, the prize money owed to other participants was shown, and needed to be paid immediately in order to capture rather than send to admiralty, there would be no hole caused by having to decide how to split a single ship that was kept.

[Lord Sarekh]

mmmmh.... I do so very much like the approach of a historically accurate-ish and realistic game.

 

As we cannot really use realistic numbers due to the number of players and ships (as said in the OP concerning the total number of British sailors for example) we can and should safely ignore that part.

 

Now I haven't read all of the posts in here but I am pondering some realistic-ish additions that might increase the fun-factor or could deepen the crew-concept. Mind you, this is all just thoughts moving around in my head...

 

Crew "durability" and "quality"

 

loads of injuries in a ship battle could be actually seen to by the ship's surgeon if there was one. So a ship with a doctor could retain a relative percentage of the crew that was incapacitated during the battle afterwards. The more often a non-replenished ship gets into battle the higher the absolute losses will be - ergo: if a ship has been into 1 battle and lost 15 crew during the battle the battlescreen could show 10 injured - 5 killed and for the next battle this ship will only have lost 5 sailors. If the ship goes through 5 battles before making port again it would show 15 out of 15 killed after the fifth battle. Getting into port (aka better medical supplies and free time) would reset the counter.

 

The more battles the crew survives the better their chances of only being injured would be. This could also increase the value of capturing an enemy and pressing his/her crew into service.

 

Increasing quality of surgeon and or boatswain might also influence that factor.

 

more Crew related upgrades

 

Certain upgrades like advanced medical equipment (non-rusty bone-saws?), medical instructions and lemon juice as well as air-trap sails could decrease either the number of deaths or if you follow the idea of crew durability from further up- could also increase that factor

 

captain's cutter and dinghy could be added to retain a larger amount of crew that can be accessed after a certain period if the ship has sunk.

 

game functions / ports

 

Don't hate me for this - but docking a ship at a free port and then logging off should result in a desertion rate for pressed crew - it would also make giant ganking fleets parked in neutral harbours much more challenging.

 

You should be able to use your labour hours to press a certain amount of low quality sailors that could evolve into better sailors over the time.

 

You could be able to drill your crew, maybe also using labour hours, to level your crew and/or your officers up in quality.

 

transfer orders (akin to low grade, mid grade, high grade notes) that could be crafted or bought could send in fresh crew from the homeland, giving either prisoners, pressed sailors or transferred able seamen at high cost

 

Provision orders could send in provisions and upgrades from the homeland at high cost.

 

The ability to give shore leave could be added in your nations' ports, replenishing the durability or increasing your labour hours at a small desertion rate cost

 

Ships could still be automatically send back to ports by prize crews - however, prize crews would only be able to join your crew again after a period of quarantine / shore leave / debriefing - still increasing the cost factor of capturing as intended but without the inconvenience of having to bring a ship back on your own

 

Exchanging prisoners (diplomatic feature) -  for the to be implemented diplomatic system it could be possible to replenish the national crew-staff by making a prisoner exchange with another nation, even while being in war. This could be a feature that would not be available to pirates that in exchange could have less desertion rates.

[PL_Harpoon]

If on the select screen of the primary who had the option to capture, the prize money owed to other participants was shown, and needed to be paid immediately in order to capture rather than send to admiralty, there would be no hole caused by having to decide how to split a single ship that was kept.

Actually, I was thinking of even more automated system.

 

Let's say we have a 2v1 engagement and after some combat the single ship has struck his colours.

 

Player, who dealt 30% of all damage instantly receives his share (30% of prize money and 30% of crew available for reinforcements). The other player gets to decide whether he wants 70& of prize-money or the ship.

[Hethwill]

Hmmm... what was the normal procedure during this era about captured crews ?