BungeeLemming Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 pavel and bellona are ships of the line. constis are frigates. You have 42/32pd max plus an additional 24pd gundeck (plus useless upper decks) vs 24pd and 12pd-ers (nearly useless) | 42lb carros ofc you can win this with rather ease if your enemies refuse to roflstomp your sterns and not board. SoLs are incredibly tough this patch. To even scratch their paint you need even opposition. Which the Conny does not offer. Broadside weight SoLs: 1861 vs Connies: 1512 or with 42lb carros: 2592 I sailed my pavel a few times now. With the intention to get it sunk (capped it last patch - dont like her) Receive dmge is a total max of 10% in the greatest fighting. __________________________- My personal problem liew within cannons of the size of 12pd and 18 not penetrating SoL armour. Why would you design a ship with 12s and 18s in the mid decks when you know you cant do shit against other SoLs in a linefight? Thats not logical. And yet there were SoLs with just that gunsizes in the mid decks. Hell the brits even changed their 24lb mid decks back to 18pdrs because they thought the crew is getting too tired in log fights, using 24lbs. At least the 18prds should be usable in a SoL fight. But I would not consider guns under 24pound size fitting to fight SoLs. Which is not very realistic, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randommexi Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Sanity check questions Do you consider frigate battles fun (compared to older versions)? Do you consider ships of the line indecisive historical battles fun? Should marines be tweaked? Question 1. Hard to tell, most of the battles i'm in (90% or more) are ganks. either getting ganked or doing a gank. Question 2. don't understand the question. i'm not good at English Question 3. Yes. but only because I don't think they should be a module/upgrade at all. everyone should be able to hire the amount of marines they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMist Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 That's good that you like YOUR Connie. But before you can make a call on game balanced mechanics you have to play the other side of the fight and be in a frigate vs. a Connie a few times. The Connie is immune to even the 18# guns of the Tricom outside Coronades range. This creates a very limited set of situations that a pair or grouping of hvy frigates can even challenge the Connie. Now that's not to say a couple prepared Tricoms can't take down a Connie. The question is simply how hard should that challenge be? The USS Philadelphia lost to the much smaller Shannon. However the Philly was boarded by Shannon and that is sort if still possible. The Constitution fought Java in a battle where Java guns bounced off the hull. So that's a pro for the current system. One summer Constitution was chased off New Jersey by x4 smaller British frigs. One if which was also the Shannon. In today's game the Constitution could fight that battle. So perhaps it's just a little to easy for a Connie to fight frigates. But then again, if we want Connies to be able to harass 3rd rates in today's game we need to keep the armor value higher. So maybe it's a catch 22. I believe the Conny was designed as a frigate killer and is really a fourth rate. I can assure you that the Conny can be damaged if you sail it poorly against AI frigates. I know this directly from some of my poorer tactical decisions. I like it as it is. It is a step up just before you sail third rates. There is no way a single frigate should be able to bring it down in my opinion even sailed well. At least two maybe three is more an even match. Please, please, leave it alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomppeli Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1. Frigate battles are awesome right now, much more fun than before. Do not make them sink any easier, this ain't part of CoD-series. Anyone who says its hard to sink just wants to shoot miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Any ETA of the patch 9.83? We actually found the bug in the penetration system - which was dropping penetrations at certain distances for all guns. It showed that tanky ships works wonders but made ships of the line life impossible If we are able to retune the penetration today based on the feedback and on the findings over the last 2 weeks it will be deployed tomorrow. If not it will be deployed on friday. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) We actually found the bug in the penetration system - which was dropping penetrations at certain distances for all guns. It showed that tanky ships works wonders but made ships of the line life impossible If we are able to retune the penetration today based on the feedback and on the findings over the last 2 weeks it will be deployed tomorrow. If not it will be deployed on friday. Was that bug by any chance armor ? Sarcasm aside im just hoping you're not caving into pure pressure from the players moaning about the daily basis on these forums while at the same time posting that they haven't loged in since patch 9.8 (a.k.a i haven't tested it but ill nag about it anyways) Edited June 1, 2016 by Ledinis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Was that bug by any chance armor ? Sarcasm aside im just hoping you're not caving into pure pressure from the players moaning about the daily basis on these forums while at the same time posting that they haven't loged in since patch 9.8 (a.k.a i haven't tested it but ill nag about it anyways) extra drop off was applied for all guns it helped to uncover the beauty of angling and tanking.. bugs can be useful sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bach Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1. Frigate battles are awesome right now, much more fun than before. Do not make them sink any easier, this ain't part of CoD-series. Anyone who says its hard to sink just wants to shoot miles away. My experience over the last few days is that frigate battles are becoming more and more rare. With the current armor rules everyone is shipping up into invulnerable heavies when they see a frigate. Yesterday we sailed three Tricoms to the USA coast. They were out in Connies and Belonas. Later sailed off Spanish coast. They came to fight in 3rd rates and a Connie. To be able to fight we will now have to sail at least Connies. So my friend, as time goes by, there will be no more frigate battles as long as the armor tanks are so much more powerful as compared. You can't blame the players. Even in real 1800's, if every nation could sail free maintenance Rate ships no smaller ship could hurt they would have. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Pete Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Marines are fine. They can't help with anything.If they were helping, then the wouldn't have prep bonus, would they? Nay! They also pay a heavy penalty on crewing, larger than their boarding bonus. I says, its a LTP issue with boarding, as most of the captains I do battle with have a very poor understanding of how boarding works. When ye face a good boarder, ye know it! And when ye face a poor boarder…. ye know it right away that this poor sap has no clue. Leave 'em the way they are, Pagan Pete says! +3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Even i cant say that they are balanced, and my job is literally to lie to people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 My experience over the last few days is that frigate battles are becoming more and more rare. With the current armor rules everyone is shipping up into invulnerable heavies when they see a frigate. Yesterday we sailed three Tricoms to the USA coast. They were out in Connies and Belonas. Later sailed off Spanish coast. They came to fight in 3rd rates and a Connie. To be able to fight we will now have to sail at least Connies. So my friend, as time goes by, there will be no more frigate battles as long as the armor tanks are so much more powerful as compared. You can't blame the players. Even in real 1800's, if every nation could sail free maintenance Rate ships no smaller ship could hurt they would have. No. There will be no more frigate battles as long as its an arms race to all ha e 1st or 2nd rate ships. Nobody will bother with the frigates and since you can just teleport back and forth between the front lines now soon all tjat will be around is 1st rate unless they put at cap on the number of 1sr and 2nd rates allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 No. There will be no more frigate battles as long as its an arms race to all ha e 1st or 2nd rate ships. Nobody will bother with the frigates and since you can just teleport back and forth between the front lines now soon all tjat will be around is 1st rate unless they put at cap on the number of 1sr and 2nd rates allowed. What are you on about ? Ever since they made only regional capitals accept line ships, people stopped producing these. you cant catch anything in a 1st rate. At the moment its everyone spamming connies and rattlesnakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dius Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Any idea when the new penetration model will be implemented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Any idea when the new penetration model will be implemented? http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14338-forthcoming-hot-fixes-next-week-ships-of-the-line-penetration-discussion/page-5#entry266479 Or did you mean something different? Edited June 1, 2016 by Bommel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ours Barbu Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1, 2 & 3 = Yes. For the marines, it's unhistorical to have more than 20% of the total crew in marines. But the bonus preparation is a good idea. http://www.musee-marine.fr/programmes_multimedia/vieabord/vieABord_en.html750 crew, 130 marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danishviking Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Maby you could test some more on the reinforce timer. It just feels so wrong that you can get ganked right outsite a national port and no one have time to join and help. Atleast let it bee open for longer time to reinfors to even up the fight. Open world movement is so slow that you can see the fight start but you cant even in good wind, get there in time. even it up and lets have some good even fights insted of this gank only game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horriblehate Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Captains remember To find the perfect damage model we must conduct experiments. Even if you already love the damage model there might be changes that need to be tested that you personally won't like - but they will allow to close some doors to never be reopened again. Such experiments are needed and you should not react negatively when they are tested. They are good for the game because sometimes they will help to uncover interesting options we could miss if we did not do it. We promise - the closer we are to release the less experiments like that we will do - but now its a perfect time to continue experimenting) You can always say in the future - we tested them and they are not fun. But sometimes we can find something very interesting because of such experiments. We have tested very tankier ships of the line and the result is obvious - battles are much longer in ships of the line and on average they are tediously long which is not a good thing. Raking is not yet a viable alternative for disabling the ships. Gun loss is a lot better now but crew losses sometimes feel inadequate even if you did a perfect rake. Regarding ships of the line armor. We have found the solution that will allow to keep medium frigate combat (that people say are fun) and increase the fun factor on ships of the line We plan to do the following changes next hot fix (again changes will be slow and gradual) Tune medium and heavy gun penetrations (increase them a bit for 9 and 12 and reduce it for 32 and 42 as they are too strong for lower lineship armors) Tune armors for ship accordingly (reduce armor and reduce live oak bonuses a bit) Tweak mast hp and strength (i think we have found the sweet spot over last 2 fixes) it was too high in 9.8 and too low in 9.82 Tweak raking crew losses Tweak marines strength and preparation growth Sanity check questions Do you consider frigate battles fun (compared to older versions)? Do you consider ships of the line indecisive historical battles fun? Should marines be tweaked? What else did we miss? advanced warning: there are 2 things that might change dramatically in the next content patch that are long overdue (ETA 20-25 days) fixes of bugs and improvement of old acceleration and deceleration behavior of vessels fixes of turning, terminal speed and rudder influence on speed. Sanity check questions Do you consider frigate battles fun (compared to older versions)?Frigates arrr fun, but it be an arms race for sure. Do you consider ships of the line indecisive historical battles fun?It would be if thar be more type of ships. Should marines be tweaked?If they be slack, then they need to be picking up some sail matey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bach Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Maby you could test some more on the reinforce timer. It just feels so wrong that you can get ganked right outsite a national port and no one have time to join and help. Atleast let it bee open for longer time to reinfors to even up the fight. Open world movement is so slow that you can see the fight start but you cant even in good wind, get there in time. even it up and lets have some good even fights insted of this gank only game. They did fix that. If you get attacked inside your capitals green zone your battle can be reinforced by your team indefinetly. I wouldn't mind if they made the green zone larger. But the system seems to work.As to other ports im not sure it should be so. Most if them are captured towns. They wouldn't have totally loyal populations of fisherman running into port to tell the garrison commander a ship was attacking one of his and needed help. Besides that the most NA players I see that aren't basing out of national capitals are all basing out of free towns. So I'm not sure how frequent the situation would be. Edited June 1, 2016 by Bach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danishviking Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Bach i did say national port not capital port. and tbh i dont think the reinforce works in anyway.. not if you go for even fight that can be intense and fun, But yes, if all you want,is to gank and have uneven fights it works perfekt. Just make the timer longer to reinforce to same strengt that the other team has and you will see alot of good fighting. Edited June 1, 2016 by Danishviking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Morgan Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I see you are planning on tweaking Masts, good thing, but are you planning on adjust sails hp up or lowering chain shot damage? They are just melting so fast now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 I see you are planning on tweaking Masts, good thing, but are you planning on adjust sails hp up or lowering chain shot damage? They are just melting so fast now. they are destroyed faster yes not sure if it is good or not. i have heard some like it some hate it. Which means its a good unboring feature what do all think of sail damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) they are destroyed faster yes not sure if it is good or not. i have heard some like it some hate it. Which means its a good unboring feature what do all think of sail damage? well i like the damage to sails , but.... the other day our mission fleet tagged 4x a single pirate frigate ,and outrun us(in battle) ,(us with 2x frigate, renomee, constitution, pavel) by the far distance and the speed ,but most of all the accuracy of the front guns at that distance (they could not reach it)((longs)) the distance when going/comming into battle was really to far ,and could not do much damage to the sails on that distance it was actually a ridicules situation.. the real problem is actually the distance/accuracy to do damage to sails when going into battle for hitting the sails (tagging the sails) , the overall damage to the sails when hitting the sails there should be a bigger penalty to speed(tangled cables and howsers,and snaped ropes ) so hitting sails should be more affected to the speed in the long run if you are tagged in pursue(from behind) the sail damage should be tripled (in conjunction to speed 5% for a hit)((rear sail, 3 masts sails , and front sail)) the flank damage can be the same (as it is) so more: accurate front long guns more damage to sails from front long guns and more distance (fire power) to the front guns (if the distance for going/coming into battle remains the same , ) if not the a more closer engagement is appreciated(the gap is just to big) ps. my opinion is: when going into battle (you have already pursued the vessel in OW ) and does not mean "a sail at the horizon again" and have to pursue him later (in battle screen )for over 10 hours again (battle is battle ) and not looking at the rear of a ship for half a day.(so more sail damage from frontguns will help.) that said battles where close in those days it did not work that way in those days (as we do it now) we are not in the 21th century , so more direct reality is welcome...if i might say o7 Edited June 1, 2016 by Thonys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horror Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 This is an excellent video! Clearly showing the real killer of those days, not the projectile but the splinters... What the heck? It didn't bounce off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Saildamage used to be better imo. You drastically increased the ammount of dmge a hull can widtstand and fights generally last quite a bit longer (we will see more after the next hotfix) In return you made our sails melt like icecream In addition we cannot effectively dmge someone out of the 300m mark. Bu sails will be shreded at 1km.. You only have to hit - there is no penetration resistance (and why would there be any) I conclude that saildmge is too prominent atm. Chain has too much range and is too accurate. ball should be the long range sailsniper as it was in previous patches. tbh. the demasting previously was very good if you didnt have these 4lb gattlingguns against you 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 What the heck? It didn't bounce off!Why should it bounce? distance 100m, perfect angle, big gun, so perfect situation Remove the 3rd view in Battle instance, so player get a feeling for "real"distance,again 3rd view makes ships appear closer as they are,it will shrink the complainers by a half i bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts