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Double shot/Double charge return

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Is it possibel to have different decks loading different shot as one of the upcoming patches too please......for instance double shotting 48lbs might be a bit stupid but in a santi against a vic for instance you may wanna double shot the smaller calibres to make them a chance to pen

Oh and i wonder if this has been considered regarding fire breakout in conjunction with fire ship mods..........might be too easy to light your own fuse...

Other way around. Double shot with 32lb guns makes sense out to around 400yds. But with significantly smaller ordnance you will not have comparable penetration or range of effective fire unless you are using single shot.

 

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Double charge should just be called Full or Maximum Charge.

 

Sure ! Keep it simple.

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You could introduce a general "canon-heat-meter" that goes constantly up when you are shooting. The higher it gets, the higher the chance of a cannon loss. It could also have a X% chance of causing a fire.

A double charge would then simply bring up the heat faster for that broadside.

As for the damage output I would vote for simply double damage and half penetration for double balls and double penetration and 50% more range for double charges.

 

 

As for the ammo, you could simply add another consumable to buy which you have to use after the battle, like you do with the repair kits now.

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I don't see the need for it. I would suggest that we are still working on various combat mechanics already that still seem to not quite be where they "should" be to many. Then you are going to introduce yet another variable into a system that isn't even perfected? We are still having debates over armor penetration, mast and sail damage, effective range of carronades/cannons, new mods that have been introduced such as Survival Handbooks, debates on Marines and boarding combat system, a new officer system getting ready to be rolled out oh and a desperate need to get the new port battle system introduced.....hell I'm probably forgetting some even. Now we might be adding in a consumable that is going to have a rather significant impact (pun intended).....

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I don't see the need for it. I would suggest that we are still working on various combat mechanics already that still seem to not quite be where they "should" be to many. Then you are going to introduce yet another variable into a system that isn't even perfected? We are still having debates over armor penetration, mast and sail damage, effective range of carronades/cannons, new mods that have been introduced such as Survival Handbooks, debates on Marines and boarding combat system, a new officer system getting ready to be rolled out oh and a desperate need to get the new port battle system introduced.....hell I'm probably forgetting some even. Now we might be adding in a consumable that is going to have a rather significant impact (pun intended).....

Got to agree with this actually. As much as I'd like double shot and double charge the whole game is turned upside down at the moment with powerful chain shot, with marines upgrades which is a single slot on a ship that's more powerful than three decks of guns, ships ramming left and right simply because they don't get leaks from it anymore, the upgrades are a mess where half of them can't be crafted and essential ones (like marines) are purely down to luck to get, and the offers will cause the whole balance (or lack thereof) to tilt even more.

There'll be so many factors changing at the same time that it'll be quite impossible to balance the system in any timely manner.

At the same time I understand that some things might actually be *easier* to balance with more features added because you get a whole new synergy between things that work better, but I'm not sure that double shot and double charge are important right now.

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I could see double on a cooldown.

 

Cooldown rather consumable because it is 1) more logical and 2) not opening a resupply need which the game avoids perfectly fine atm.

 

Cooldown logically? Why so?

Cause a gun overheating should not be loaded with extra stress.

Theoretically you could also only allow double charge when your guns were silent for so and so long.

 

A sczenario could be a broadside duel where the non firing battery is loaded double (charge or ball doesnt matter).

A strategical broadsideflip will hold a unpleasant surprise to your enemy. Or even the sternrake with a doubleshot.

Maybe we are allowed to put grape as 2nd "round" into the barrel. This was done more frequently than two solid round shots.

_______

 

I am against a consumable item which I have to resupply at port.

The game is trying to avoid this.

And it creates equality amongs everyone and in addition another strategical factor.

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I really don't like it as a consumable. The goal is to mix up the strategy and let players to develop their own style, not to make it a "premium" bonus.

 

Also, instead of having a cooldown, why not just integrate the cooldown into the reload speed?

 

For example, 1st broadside reload 30 sec, 2nd broadside 33 sec, and so on until you reach a sustainable rate of fire?

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I really don't like it as a consumable. The goal is to mix up the strategy and let players to develop their own style, not to make it a "premium" bonus.

 

 

 

what premium bonus are you talking about?

we are talking about the crafted consumable

rob the other guy and take it.

 

we are not sure about making all powder crafted, but bonus power.. why not

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Cause of the same reason you dont want to have killed crew.

Cause it makes me have to go back to port while I could be fighting.

 

or: fight without the consumable and be gimped. I prefer a 100% capable ship.

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On 23.5.2016 at 3:04 PM, admin said:

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

Is this still up to date?

Edit:
nevermind (It's not up to date)

 

Edited by Liquicity

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@admin

 Good point made by @Liq if it’s still on the table may I suggest…

 Double Shot

The effective range of the “Double Ball” was Pistol Shot length or 50m. I’d suggest increasing the Penetration at 50m and reducing it at 100m by 50%. This will put it a more realistic use as it was intended for…

 Double Charge

Totally drop the double charge shot for ship use ONLY for tower and FORTs. It was NEVER used on a ship.

 Norfolk.

 

 

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I don't see much use for either of them under the proposed changes.   Sounds like both will be nerfed. Double shot already is near useless unless you are at point blank range. Double charge is useful for doing structure damage and dismasting. Sounds like you are going to remove any reason for using it against hulls and make it more effective against masts than it already is, exacerbating a huge game mechanic flaw that needs fixed on its own. So, no and no. Fix demasting first then we can talk about stuff that doesn't need fixed.

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Rather just remove them both. "Double Charge" is misleading, it's just a full charge. Gun crews would never actually load 2 full charges into a gun.
Double ball isn't bad or overly OP. But really, how many were gun crews ordered to load 2 balls ever? Just seems kind of silly.

If I had magical dev powers I'd make it so you can choose a 50% charge for close range spalling and splinter damage, and a full charge for just normal stuff. But a double charge is OP and adds more to the demasting meta than is really necessary

 

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On 5/23/2016 at 6:15 PM, D. Federico de Gravina y N said:

There is possibility to destroy your own guns if you used the double charge or the double ball repeatedly in battle?

Or maybe, just maybe...include a “HEAT METER” or whatever to measure the capacity of the guns firing doubles. Once it reaches a certain point, the meter turns from GREEN to ORANGE. then around 90% above it turns to red to alert the player of the  risk of cannon failure. Just a suggestion. Please do correct me if this sound absurd. 

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I’ve looked into these two mechanics in the past and my mind hasn’t changed based upon historical reference rather than gameplay ability.

@Slim Jimmerson

You are correct in the term “Double Charge” is misleading and should be called “Full Charge”. Even so I think the mechanic for ships should not exist. A “Full Charge” was usually up to 75% of the weight of the cannonball fired as standard. Have referenced all the works previously…

For the FORT defense structures, a 64-pound LONG cannon was used with 2x 100% FULL CHARGE Bags. This is probably where the Dev’s got the “Double Charge” reference from. It sent the 64-pound cannonball nearly 3 miles. Kills the argument in NA-L that FORTs are somewhat overpowered…?

@D. Federico de Gravina y N

The “Double Ball” used in practice was at very close range as stated above. In fact, a Captain lived in fear of an onboard FIRE and main culprits for the time is a poorly cast cannon breaching. For this simple reason the Captain would load HALF CHARGE Bags when using Double Balls so under powering them.

A Captain wouldn’t use a FULL bag incase the 2x BALLs plus wading etc. blocked and breached causing a catastrophic failure. This is why I suggested shortening its effective range further to 50m and useless at 100m.

This I’ve referenced as well before.

@Captain Biggus Dickus

Love the idea of a “HEAT METER”. Maybe instead of a meter a Sailor would shout out some old naval term like…” Run for Cover, she’s about to BLOW…!” warning you like the boarding whistle mechanic at the moment.

 

Norfolk.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_artillery_in_the_Age_of_Sail

 

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Double shot (fired with second reduce) gave ballistic performance similar to a carronade of the same calibre, and recoil similar to the same gun firing single shot with the standard charge.
Double shot with the first reduce gave recoil well above the normal level, and with the standard charge was dangerously high for the standard carriages in the confined spaces on board ships (or inside forts).

Standard charges were 1/3rd of the (single and nominal) ball weight, and first and second reduce 1/4qtr & 1/6th respectively.

Consistency was inevitably poor as the two balls would exit the muzzle with different velocity and with opposite orientation in the bore. Typically the two shots would not both strike home outside pistol shot, and the advantage of double was to increase the degree of injury by striking twice at close ranges, or by reducing overpenetration and increasing the size (if not number) of splinters and making the holes both more open and harder to patch. (A single ball fired at a normal side at typical ranges would pass cleanly through leaving a hole into which the fingers could not be pushed).

When hits were obtained the larger natures (e.g. 32lb) would be effective with double to beyond 400 yds against the side of a 3rd rate. (reduced from ~1200 yds for the single shot). Smaller ordinance may fail to be very useful at all though - as most guns are smaller than the carronades which were considered effective (24lbs and up).

 

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