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Double shot/Double charge return

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admin    28,104

We plan to roll out the following features for testing in one of the next patches.

 

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

 

The number of these consumables will be limited per battle: starting supply 2 uses per gun. They will be available in all battle instances.

 

In the future double shot ammo and double charge powder can be added as items for crafting. Gunpowder related resources supplies will be limited and can provide additional incentives for port captures or trader hunting.

 

Discuss

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Wicked Mouse    274

I thought that with double shot (two cannon balls instead of one) they did not want to use two charges, because they were afraid of rupturing the cannon breech.

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admin    28,104

I thought that with double shot (two cannon balls instead of one) they did not want to use two charges, because they were afraid of rupturing the cannon breech.

 

its either or

you won't be able to use both

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Wicked Mouse    274

Understood, so less range for double shot, but was it a historic fact that every now and then added an extra powder charge to add more penetration/range to a single shot? They weren't afraid of any rupturing then?

 

And will we at some point also get a choice between cannister and grape shot? And Bar and chain shot?

Edited by Wicked Mouse

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jodgi    2,318

Nation/clan/solo balance can be tricky.

How would it feel for a casual player (I include myself in that category) when he logs on to shoot at ships for a few hours but can't get the needed ammo or powder?

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Dius    188

Looking forward to test this, hope the new pen values will be in place either at the same time or before this update.

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admin    28,104

Nation/clan/solo balance can be tricky.

How would it feel for a casual player (I include myself in that category) when he logs on to shoot at ships for a few hours but can't get the needed ammo or powder?

 

 

they will be available from NPCs as well i guess. It could happen that they might not survive the testing at all. 

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The Red Duke    6,298

It is a tricky one given the risk of using over charges provoking a cannon rupture. Can recall reading of a  event of one ( yeah, only one ) cannon blowing in a french vessel in the gun deck below which provoked truly horrendous casualties resulting in obvious cessation of combat and surrender.

 

It cannot be flat use. And having such a risk at play will ensure not many captains will use it unless the performance in the short run, like for one decisive broadside, justifies it.

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Marcomies    66

Not a big fan of making something like this a consumable that is separate from the infinite "normal" ball and powder. I would personally prefer some sort of supply and demand system on the ship where stuff like firing all guns as fast as they reload or shooting double shot/charge would drain the immediate supply of ammunition at gundecks (representing that new powder and ball is not being hauled to the guns as fast as it is being fired) which would cause disturbances to the reloading of guns. This would be more consistent with the otherwise endless ammunition in the game.

 

Other balancing possibilities for double shot/charge could be making the reload of double shot slower than normal shot and reducing the velocity and accuracy of the balls. For double charge there could be an increasing chance of guns being damaged/destroyed when firing double charge shots.

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The Red Duke    6,298

There is possibility to destroy your own guns if you used the double charge or the double ball repeatedly in battle?

 

Possibility was real even with normal charge during prolonged use as the guns heat a lot, etc. Increased charges simply added more risk.

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The Red Duke    6,298

I know, I refer in the game, to limited the Double shoot in battle

 

Yeah, that's the whole point of the discussion. And a very tricky implementation.

 

For one I wouldn't like to see then as consumables, alas I simply dislike the whole consumables idea.

For other, and if they are a option, to have equal measure positive and negative effects.

 

Maybe provoke more fire with possibility of explosion along with guns destroyed ? *shrugs*

 

Double shot was terrifying back in Trials, pretty much standard.

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Skyhye    1

I may be in the minority here but at first I loved how this game really did focus on historical accuracy and still very much appreciate it. 

 

But in terms of game play - I am a casual gamer and don't have a ton of time to invest in this game (I already spend too much time trying to play as it is).

 

I think the more this game changes as being "realistic/historical" the more you are pushing me and people like me away.

 

Yes this game is a niche market and there are people who have the time to blow on this game.

 

But I am willing to bet if you don't make this game a little bit more like a game then you are going to be severely limiting the player base.

 

At the same time I am very much glad that this game is not swinging to full arcade mode - but this suggestion and even the recent damage module patch almost make this game unplayable for me because the time it takes to even have a 1v1 is the entire 1.5 hour time.

 

I would be glad to go more in detail with this if anyone wants me too.

 

Thanks and take care,

 

-Skyhye

Edited by Skyhye

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Inkompetent    117

Not a big fan of making something like this a consumable that is separate from the infinite "normal" ball and powder. I would personally prefer some sort of supply and demand system on the ship where stuff like firing all guns as fast as they reload or shooting double shot/charge would drain the immediate supply of ammunition at gundecks (representing that new powder and ball is not being hauled to the guns as fast as it is being fired) which would cause disturbances to the reloading of guns. This would be more consistent with the otherwise endless ammunition in the game.

 

Other balancing possibilities for double shot/charge could be making the reload of double shot slower than normal shot and reducing the velocity and accuracy of the balls. For double charge there could be an increasing chance of guns being damaged/destroyed when firing double charge shots.

As can be seen by what Admin writes more advanced systems are coming. I quite like your suggestions, and I am sure that they are open to them. However by making them consumables they don't need to design a new mechanic. It's very easy to implement, and it lets them test the actual effect of double shot and double charge before investing time into deeper mechanics surrounding them.

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akd    2,622

I would be in favor of unlimited double, but with a cooldown after three broadsides. And no unloading it.

Yes, but in that case cooldown should not be time alone, but actual cooldown of guns (i.e. time spent not firing or firing at reduced rate). Would be tricky to implement

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DeRuyter    724

My thoughts on this subject:

 

1. Double shot

  • Should have reduced accuracy as well - as in ST only good for short range.
  • Should have chance of bursting gun.
  • No double in carronades*
  • Should have some limitation on use whether that is as by a supply system or cool down.
  • Longer reload times obviously.

2. Double Charge

  • Should have pretty good chance of bursting gun.

 

 

* I would really like to see a ball & grape load - which was used in carronades.

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Pagan Pete    943

We plan to roll out the following features for testing in one of the next patches.

 

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

 

The number of these consumables will be limited per battle: starting supply 2 uses per gun. They will be available in all battle instances.

 

In the future double shot ammo and double charge powder can be added as items for crafting. Gunpowder related resources supplies will be limited and can provide additional incentives for port captures or trader hunting.

 

Discuss

 

When using this consumable, a damaged gun should have a probability of a catastrophic failure. This would kill that gun crew and injir or kill adjacent gun grows as well. Also, there should be a small probability of a fire on a catastrophic failure of a gun.

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Eishen    559

I would be in favor of unlimited double, but with a cooldown after three broadsides. And no unloading it.

 

Maturin proposition seems much more in line with a system with unlimited ammo, it does not seem right having  X(two) uses against a single ship than in a 25 player battle....bte   I understand the proposition as having a CollDown time when a board gun are not going to be reloaded after a number (three in his example ) of special ammo uses  -to represent guns cooling and in deck ammo replenish from the magazine-

 

Also given that both special charge type has its own malus , adding an extra CD will make this feature s more an election -and giving options make game more skill depending- than a plain upgrade .

 

Any "probability of gun /crew destruction adds random (vs skill) to the equation.... if we are eliminating random in favor of skill from damage I can not see the point in including it otherwise

Edited by Eishen

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Lieste    307

Penetration of double is a lot less than that. (33% less with full charges (& with excessive recoil), 50% less with second reduce (acceptable recoil and gun stress))

While there are a very few examples of very large carronades being used with ball and cannister this is so far as I've read only noted in cases with raking fire through stern galleries - the same loss of velocity and penetration that is associated with double ball would apply to both the cannister or grape and ball. With the marginal at best penetration from smaller carronades this would be totally ineffective in most random fire cases.

Double charge was a loading error that was potentially fatal to the ordnance. Even loading a full charge after discharging more than 10 shots within a three quarters of an hour or so would be a error that could and did lead to burst ordnance - offering it as a deliberate 'buff' seems odd. The bonus penetration is also excessive even if the practice is required. At most a 15% increase in penetration at the muzzle and up to the supersonic transition. Much less than this at long ranges where the benefit may not even be discernable.

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Fastidius    305

Is it possibel to have different decks loading different shot as one of the upcoming patches too please......for instance double shotting 48lbs might be a bit stupid but in a santi against a vic for instance you may wanna double shot the smaller calibres to make them a chance to pen


Oh and i wonder if this has been considered regarding fire breakout in conjunction with fire ship mods..........might be too easy to light your own fuse...

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BilL.it    44

Double shot

Increase damage by 25%/Reduced penetration by 15%

 

The damage should be doubled or nearly so, while the reduced penetration of at least 50%

 

 

 

Double charge with ball 

Increase penetration by 20%/ Reduced damage by 15%

Increased speed of shot by 10% (more distance and better ballistics)

 

Why ? this makes no sense. The cannon ball remains the same. It would be appropriate to give a chance to the explosion of the cannon.

Then insert different types of cannons, bronze, iron and steel (1861) ... only craftables

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