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Positional reinforcements and ROE


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My solution is simple: when you are going to enter a battle as a reinforcement the circle that marks the battle should be painted half white and half red, the white being the side you are facing when the battle started and from where you can join the battle, the red being the opposite side from which you can not enter the battle. Problem solved!

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make it 1.2 x BR

cause the mechanic still allows for huge ships to imbalance any battle to a much greater degree

It wasn't working this way. The BR limit was a check on entry but not a check against the BR of the entering ship. So whether we make it 1.5 BR or 1.2 BR you would still see large ships able to enter. As long as the battle was less than or equal to 1.2 BR we can still jump into it with even a Victory or Santissimam Edited by Bach
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More than 50% of players like it.....

Prove this to me. I would love to see some hard numbers on this since the player online population nose dived nearly 50% the week we had the 1.5BR limit. Before you make such a wide ranging game change we really need percentages well over 80% or more. A 51% majority or even 65% could still cost us a third of the player population.

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Can I see the poll you used to get this 50% please?

 

Why was the 1.5 BR rule implemented? Answer: people where hiding in battle screens or ports then jumping out when a bait ship tagged a smaller group or solo player. That player then found himself in a battle at 10 to 1 odds and was ganked. 1.5 BR was thought to solve this but didn't, instead a friendly who was just out side the tag circle could not help the ganked player because of the BR rule. BR rule was removed for this reason. Now without the BR rule the gank group can sail past the tag and cut off the gankee's escape path by a magic time/space warp. So how do you fix all this?

 

Just make invulnerable timers 2 minutes 30 secs, and battle close 30 seconds, and tag circle twice as big and forget all this BR difference junk! Now gankers can't hide in ports or battle screens, they won't get in, what you see in open world is the fight you get, and the bigger tag lets multi ship groups fight together but you spawn in at the distance you where when tag happens. So attackers still have to coordinate but the gankee may get help from friendlies that where in range but will have to sail to the battle to help. Now everyone gets what they see, no surprises, if you are ganked its your fault for poor awareness on the open world. The only BR rating system is what ships should be able to tag another ship (cutter should not tag a first rate, and vice verse). How is this not simpler?

It is posted intentionally to get more information.  :D Stay on topic please and don't get distracted. As we all know forum polls are useless and anyone can click yes or no having no clue what is going on. Developers made this post for a reason. Clearly larger crowd supports devs suggestion and I do as well. 

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1.5BR rule would mean gankers need to jump in all at once and cannot use positional reinforcements to surround a faster prey, wouldn't that be right?

Not if you "gank " like me and take a cerb ir supirise and atrack frigates, trincs, bells and and other large ships. 1.5 allows me to attack anyone in complete safty. I think the 1.5 is illogical in a "sandbox " game but im ALL FOR brining it back lol.

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1.5BR rule would mean gankers need to jump in all at once and cannot use positional reinforcements to surround a faster prey, wouldn't that be right?

Not that we experienced that week we had the 1.5BR with the positional. You could still use the positional to get in front of an enemy even with the 1.5 BR rule.

Example: x2 Renomee and a Constitution chasing a Tricom.

The Renos pursue on the OS. As the first Reno makes the tag the other and the Connie drop out of the circle edge. Now the battle is formed with the first Reno and the Tricom with most likely the Tricom out front at best wind and the Reno far behind it. Battle is now 110BR v 200BR. Meanwhile during the two minute counter the other Reno and the Connie now sail to the other side of the circle. The Niagara now enters. Battle is now 220BR v 200BR. Now the Connie enters. Battle is now 520BR v 200BR with the Connie and Reno in front of the Tricom and a Reno upwind of it. It won't likely escape.

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More than 50% of players like it and this might be why it's a good temporary fix until they code the final one . 

 

please link actual poll with results when stating something like this. Then tell me how many of the votes for 1.5 BR limit was made by PVE carebears fearing spherical ganks in vacuum?

 

I've played more then 400 hours, lost and capped/sank a lot of ships but yet too see a gank where the "victim" hadn't been able to evade battle if he just wasn't being afk or paying ZERO attention to who is sailing around him.

 

1.5 BR system actually made ganking of lone SOLs easier. You can cap Bellona in Essex and Bellona's friends won't be able to join.

I am not speaking about exploit with joining ganked side just to prevent other reinforcements to arrive.

 

I'm saying this as a player who during the war with Swedes was sailing with a group near Gustavia inviting Swedes to fight. Without 1.5BR limit they were able to defeat us eventually gathering more then 2:1 BR difference. With 1.5BR limit we would just be able to camp near Gustavia forever given that we we organized in TS and would be fighting randoms.

 

Please no artificial borders in sandbox..

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1.5 BR only brought problems, especially during conquest fleets or ships being tagged outside very populated waters, where they should be able to get huge amounts of reinforcements, but artificially limited by the BR differanse.

 

Positional reinforcements is also not very good as has been pointed out, due to someone being able to join on every side when you in fact were in the clear on that side.

 

If anything, you should consider just removing positional reinforcement and make it like it used to be when everyone joined on top of the attacker/defender. (Possibly adding a function where you spawn further back?)

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Please forget about 1.5 BR. Inventing antigank system in sandbox- is bad idea, because raiding and port battles is gameplay foundation. The number of players is reduced . And the introduction of a system of BR did not raise , and make it worse .

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The most confusing thing to me in all this is how and where these ganks are happening. I've played for two months and got ganked twice. That doesn't seem that unreasonable. I sail around most hours I play solo. Yesterday in two hours of sailing I only found x2 pvp fights. Where are these ganks happening? I would love to help counter them. Even sitting off our capital most of the day yesterday I encountered no gankers. Where are these ganks happening? That is where I would like to be playing.

Edited by Bach
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The most confusing thing to me in all this is how and where these ganks are happening. I've played for two months and got ganked twice. That doesn't seem that unreasonable. I sail around most hours I play solo. Yesterday in two hours of sailing I only found x2 pvp fights. Where are these ganks happening? I would love to help counter them. Even sitting off our capital most of the day yesterday I encountered no gankers. Where are these ganks happening? That is where I would like to be playing.

Most people complaining about ganks are PVE carebears who actually never were ganked. They are just afraid of the chance of BEING ganked. That's why they can't even understand that it is EASIER to gank with 1.5BR limit. Cause for bunch of randoms to be able to win against organised group they should have more then 1.5BR advantage.

 

 

Yet with all these talkings about an anti-gank systems devs don't wanna to make ONE EASY change that would drastically reduce ganks effectivness - forbid hiding in after-battle screen for unlimited period of time. It was used against me, it was used by me. It's really bad and allows staying in hostile waters forever. You attack someone, they call to reinforcements - reinforcements come to punish you but you MAGICALLY vanishes in the open sea.

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There have been some good ideas presented on how to address it and I believe the devs will get it right. However, like they said it's going to take some time to code and that's understandable. I would take their suggestion though to bring back the 1.5 BR mechanic until they are ready to put the new system out. Since they can't disable the positional reinforcement temporarily they need to bring back the 1.5BR mechanic temporarily. Having one without the other like we do now is not good and is very gamey. It's a bit of a compromise for people on both sides of the argument. 

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Oh, please no.  BR limits didn't fix anything any of the problems it was supposed to have fixed.  It was easily abused.  At best putting it back in is only a band-aid on the positional reinforcements and doesn't fix it either.

 

Just leave it as-is until you can fix it the right way.  We can deal with the repercussions in the meantime.

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Do I still have to prove that people love 1.5x BR? :D Coughs sarcastically. 

You are rejecting validity of polls made on this forum (because people can click "yes" or "no" without knowing the exact situation) but you think that answers on the SAME FORUM from people who never were in a PVP fight (except for a time someone "ganked" their afk trader) proves your point? At the same time ignoring everyone else posts disagreeing with your opinion AT THE SAME FORUM TOPIC.

 

Well, while I go play smth else you can count your point proved...

Edited by Vaan De Vries
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IMO :P To 1.5xBR, leave as is don't return it to 1.5xBR, alternative 's have been mentioned that I liked that are better! Stop yoyoing back and fourth it works as is yes I have been attacked lots of times through various renditions usually when sailing alone. Just please leave it alone until alternative is ready :wub: (And I'm right nah nah nah!). As usual the most vocal on forums will win out in end no matter what :rolleyes: All who agree like my post we can win this :D

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You could just take the land out and goto the build before its addition that didn't have positional entry or BR limits. You can bring the land back when you have the whole package right. It's not like it's so valuable to have land that we need both positional entry issues and 1.5BR rules issues for the sake of it.

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Q: How many players expressed displeasure with positional reinforcements?

 

Q: If a player is outmaneuvered in OW, why shouldn't that translate into the battle?

 

+1 do not re-implement 1.5br limit.

 

I don't think you understand. It doesn't even require outmanuvering. All it takes right now is a tag, period the end, not even a good one. And then all the slow boats can come up the circle OW and enter the battle surrounding a faster ship, including in front of it.

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Q: If a player is outmaneuvered in OW, why shouldn't that translate into the battle?

 

Um wat? Outmaneuvered? What you need is a fir trinco or reno to lead your gank squad and tag the target you wish to jump, and then a bunch of SOL's & frigs can simply go past the the battle instance to the other side and spawn in front of your target. Wouldn't call that outmaneuvered.  :lol:

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