Questions for the Historians

[DeRuyter]

On 2/9/2018 at 5:44 AM, Hethwill said:

A new question (kind of related also with the game reality ).

 

- Why did powerful naval nations deploy long range chase frigates to cover the seas instead of more ships of the line ? What aspects made one the obvious choice over the other ? What made a frigate more suitable for that task ?

One reason was cost. Much less expensive to man and maintain a frigate than an SOL, in particular on a six month cruise. Same reason you don't send a battleship on convoy escort duty! They are needed in battle fleets scattered around the globe in the case of the RN. Another reason that is not apparent in NA has to do with weather. A frigate would be faster over time in a much broader range of wind and weather than an SOL for the most part. There is a reason frigates  were used as scouts - the eyes of the fleet as it were. 

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

6 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

One reason was cost. Much less expensive to man and maintain a frigate than an SOL, in particular on a six month cruise. Same reason you don't send a battleship on convoy escort duty! They are needed in battle fleets scattered around the globe in the case of the RN. Another reason that is not apparent in NA has to do with weather. A frigate would be faster over time in a much broader range of wind and weather than an SOL for the most part. There is a reason frigates  were used as scouts - the eyes of the fleet as it were. 

Broadly speaking, this is correct, I would point out though that Frigates were the maids of all work in the Napoleonic era, with a range of roles that varied from close blockading, escort, message/mail running when Brigs, Sloops or Cutters were not available, to long range patrols and fleet reconnaissance. mainly these roles were suited to mid draught, low crew ships that were fast and well enough armed to counter their opposite numbers in the enemy fleet.

Battleships and Battlecruisers were regularly used on convoy duties particularly in Force 'H',  where H.M. Ships Hood (which was the  Flagship of Force 'H' during the controversial and tragic destruction of part of the French fleet  at Oran) , Renown, and Warspite escorted several convoys, H.M.S. Rodney was escorting a convoy to Halifax when diverted to hunt K.M.S. Bismark ,  H.M.S. Duke of York was providing distant convoy cover when she with the Cruisers Norfolk and Belfast intercepted and sank K.M.S Scharnhorst. 

[Surcouf]

In France, it is not uncommon in wartime to protect convoys with corvettes or frigates.

A concrete example, when the frigate Hermione returned from her American campaign in Europe. She is sent to the Indian Ocean to join the Suffren fleet. The time to arrive and find Suffren, it is used for the protection of convoys.

Our corvettes are present in the protection of the convoys, but also in the coast guards.

[DeRuyter]

17 hours ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Broadly speaking, this is correct, I would point out though that Frigates were the maids of all work in the Napoleonic era, with a range of roles that varied from close blockading, escort, message/mail running when Brigs, Sloops or Cutters were not available, to long range patrols and fleet reconnaissance. mainly these roles were suited to mid draught, low crew ships that were fast and well enough armed to counter their opposite numbers in the enemy fleet.

Battleships and Battlecruisers were regularly used on convoy duties particularly in Force 'H',  where H.M. Ships Hood (which was the  Flagship of Force 'H' during the controversial and tragic destruction of part of the French fleet  at Oran) , Renown, and Warspite escorted several convoys, H.M.S. Rodney was escorting a convoy to Halifax when diverted to hunt K.M.S. Bismark ,  H.M.S. Duke of York was providing distant convoy cover when she with the Cruisers Norfolk and Belfast intercepted and sank K.M.S Scharnhorst. 

I wouldn't compare WWII ships with Napoleonic sailing ships though. Having said that there were occasions were a squadron or fleet of SOL were used to protect a convoy. The Glorious 1st of June was fought because the French fleet was protecting an important grain convoy. However by and large you would see post ships or frigates on escort duty. 

[Fluffy Fishy]

Something I'm curious about since the use of the white jack by the French navy prior to the fall of the monarchy in 1789 (and also during the Bourbon restoration between 1814-1830), how was it that French ships surrendered in actions?

Did they strike the white flag up the signal line or anything, if they did what happened if a de-masting situation meant that the rigging didn't support raising any flags?

I would greatly appreciate any information on the subject because I can't say its something that seems to be discussed as far as I have seen. Thank you in advance if anyone can help on this subject

[maturin]

4 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Something I'm curious about since the use of the white jack by the French navy prior to the fall of the monarchy in 1789 (and also during the Bourbon restoration between 1814-1830), how was it that French ships surrendered in actions?

Did they strike the white flag up the signal line or anything, if they did what happened if a de-masting situation meant that the rigging didn't support raising any flags?

I would greatly appreciate any information on the subject because I can't say its something that seems to be discussed as far as I have seen. Thank you in advance if anyone can help on this subject

Isn't the white flag thing just from movies anyways? Or at least relatively modern.

Everyone surrendered the same, by lowering the flag to the deck.

I recall plenty of situations where an officer would row over to inquire whether they had surrendered, when a dismasted ship stopped returning fire for a while.

[Fluffy Fishy]

3 hours ago, maturin said:

Isn't the white flag thing just from movies anyways? Or at least relatively modern.

As far as I can tell it dates back to the Roman era and was widely used as a symbol to want to arrange a ceasefire or surrender by the middle ages in Christian Europe at least. The idea seems to have a pretty consistent use throughout history since and then spreading around the world over time. As far as I can tell it seems fairly mixed whether it was a proper white flag or just a rag on a stick though, I guess most of the time it was just what was available. So It's  not just a modern/movie thing.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Fluffy Fishy

[Surcouf]

As a general rule, the flag is lowered.
Indeed, at one time, the French flag was white. We fight with the flag (no matter the color of the nation), when we lose the battle we go down the flag.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

Amusingly enough there are still monarchists in france, they are divided between themselves ( bourbon, orleans and bonapartistes ), and the white flag with the lys can still be sometimes seen flying, not just on some remembrance days but also sometimes during the famous french strikes as a fringe group on the conservative religious Right.

 

 

[Surcouf]

With l'Hermione in 2016, we hoisted the Royal Pavilion in Saint-Malo 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Surcouf