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Currently, every tier of quality requires one additional note to produce. Is there a reason for this?

 

The value of quality is not linear, would anybody chose not to put an extra note on to make a mastercraft upgrade instead of a exceptional?

This seems to have created an economy where middle tier of upgrades are completely ignored as nobody will waste notes on them. and any kind of upgrade is extremely difficult to obtain for players who don't have a clan working for them.

 

Imo we should be aiming for an economy where common and fine upgrades are much easier to obtain.  I think one way to accomplish this would be to have the note requirement be far less linear and more exponential.

 

Common upgrades should be almost free and just be a bonus for player building. whereas exceptional upgrades should be very hard to obtain and be prized. I think have upgrades be so cheap will mean that higher level crafters won't feel prevented from just putting a couple of notes into lower level upgrades if the demand was high. We could also make lower upgrades requires lower notes so new crafters can make money from them.

 

I also hope this means that mastercraft and fine would become a cheaper option to exceptional and a viable choice to replace losses in day to day fighting.

 

 

My aims with this would be:

 

  • Decrease the amount of exceptional quality items, making them... exceptional items.
  • Increase the availability of common, fine and masterwork items.
  • Decrease the gap between pub players with no access to upgrades and clan outfitted ships with full gold meeting in OW. (so clans use masterwork or fine and pub players use common or fine in day to day fighting) 

 

 

Have there been discussions on this before and what are peoples thoughts?

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People on this forum will probably hate me for this suggestion, but how about making the quality of the crafted item random, with Crafting notes only increasing the probability of crafting a higher quality item?

 

For instance, crafting a ship with no crafting notes will result in a higher probability that the ship will be of Basic or Common quality, but still having a small chance of being of Mastercraft or Exceptional quality. Adding crafting notes will increase the chances of crafting a higher quality item.

 

The probability spread could be something like this for instance :

 

                             Basic                     Common                 Fine                     Mastercraft                  Exceptional
 
0 Note                     70%                        20%                      6%                        3%                             1%
1 Notes                   30%                        50%                     12%                        6%                             2%
2 Notes                   5%                         15%                      60%                      15%                             5%
3 Notes                   2%                          6%                      12%                       50%                             30%
4 Notes                   1%                          3%                       6%                         20%                             70%
 

This will ensure that there will always be Common, Fine and Mastercraft items on the market. It would make crafting a lot more exciting (maybe even a bit rage-inducing). I wouldn't mind a change like this, but then again, I like to gamble :P

The probability spread can also be tweaked to give a lower return on investment for more Crafting Notes you use. This could persuade people to rather try their luck by crafting two ships of the same kind with 2 Crafting Notes each, instead of crafting one ship with 4 Crafting Notes.

Edited by Hendrik die Seevaarder

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The problem with that sort of RNG on ship quality vs notes used is the cry of CHEAT! RIPOFF! We already have seen some of that for the slight rng dropping a quality level on a ship made with 4 notes. It was not until crafter such as myself confirmed that it does rarely happen that the "wronged" person calmed down

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I like RNG and in large quantities it does solve the problem, the game doesn't really let you store large quantities of ships though, so you often make them on demand. RNG would make it hard to get people the ship they are paying for.  Either way, i think the number of notes used in crafting has to be increased to make this work as 4 isn't enough to provide a difference between lower tier and higher tier items.

Edited by Xander Tyrann

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The labor hours needed for crafting notes is simply insane - personally I found the current system sucked from the start but with the different note types and the marginal difference in labour hours needed nothing will change, low and mid notes should need far less hours than high level and all of them should use way less in total.


I like RNG and in large quantities it does solve the problem, the game doesn't really let you store large quantities of ships though, so you often make them on demand. RNG would make it hard to get people the ship they are paying for.  Either way, i think the number of notes used in crafting has to be increased to make this work as 4 isn't enough to provide a difference between lower tier and higher tier items.

 And I hate RNG ;) If you would put it to a vote in the best case you came to an impasse.

 

RNG is the worst way to implement quality into a crafting system as no matter how you do it, players will always cheated for their time and effort.

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The labor hours needed for crafting notes is simply insane - personally I found the current system sucked from the start but with the different note types and the marginal difference in labour hours needed nothing will change, low and mid notes should need far less hours than high level and all of them should use way less in total.

 And I hate RNG ;) If you would put it to a vote in the best case you came to an impasse.

 

RNG is the worst way to implement quality into a crafting system as no matter how you do it, players will always cheated for their time and effort.

 

 

In large quantities everyone pretty much gets the same results so there's no cheating to be had, we're not talking about large quantities though as i said.

Edited by Xander Tyrann

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In large quantities everyone pretty much gets the same results so there's no cheating to be had, we're not talking about large quantities though as i said.

Thats exactly the point - which in the long (very long) run - all results probably will even out - it doesnt change the fact tho, that rng is a bad way implement most thing and is mostly based on either time constraints (best case) or laziness of a dev team (worst case). Its a half.thought solution to crafting which makes it frustrating for the most part.

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I frankly find it annoying that 4 crafting notes are required for a good upgrade, an amount that is as much as one invests into a ship, the latter of which is wholly more important.

 

There should be "Upgrade Notes" which take many less hours to make than crafting notes and perhaps aren't even necessary to invest into Upgrades to Common tier and below. On top of that, make Upgrades that aren't permanent expendable once you lose a ship. How exactly are your "Marines" still alive after your ship exploded in battle? Your Powder Monkeys? Shouldn't your enemy gain your equippable upgrades (looting your boarding axes) when he captures your ship? The idea is to make Upgrades something that you COULD invest a lot of time and money into if you want the best quality, but ultimately it should be much easier, accessible, and cheaper to get the basic and common types if per chance you're capped or sunk in battle.

 

It would make capturing a ship much more rewarding, crafters might actually make upgrades more often if they aren't being starved by crafting notes, and there will be a huge market for upgrades once they become much easier to lose. As it stands now, once you have a non-permanent upgrade there's no reason to ever buy another unless you plan on risking it in a 1st Rate with one 1 Dura.

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Up front:  Comments based on the experience of a non-clan Level 25 crafter on PvE server.  I'm well aware hat the opportunities/challenges for a clan-member, high level and/or PvP-server crafter might engender a different perspective. Ok, so that said...

 

Look at this from the crafter's point of view.  There are two "strands" which must be tied together in developing one's crafting ability.  

 

First, to level up. Simply an exercise in finding cheapest and most efficient XP-per-LaborHour ratio.  Achieved by crafting Basic-level traders which do not use gun carriages.  So the crafter is incentivized to spam multitudes of Basic Trader Lynxes and/or Trader Cutters (1.71 and 1.74 XP-per-LH, respectively.  No warship remotely approaches those ratios, even at Basic quality).

 

Second, to obtain Blueprints.  We all know that building an Exceptional ship yields the highest percentage chance of a successful BP drop.  Crafting a warship is inherently less efficient, so naturally the crafter wishes to obtain the BP in the fewest number of builds possible.  So, the incentive, obviously, is to build ONLY Exceptional warships.

 

The system currently offers no incentive to build Common / Fine / Mastercraft ships.  Building such vessels simply retards progress in both craft level and Blueprint Access.  So, the vast majority of a shipcrafter's output (the small Basic Traders) are never played and never enter the market; they are immediately sold to NPC or broken up for parts.  The few warships built are overwhelmingly (if not exclusively) built of Exceptional quality.  With Patch 9.7, capture has been eliminated as an alternative source of obtaining player warships, so we now have a dynamic in which most players, at all levels, are sailing about in Exceptional ships.  There is simply little else available.  "Exceptional" is the de facto minimum "Standard".

 

------------------

 

IF (and it's a big "if"...for all I know, maybe the developers and playerbase are content) we assume that this state of affairs is not optimum and should be changed, then I offer an alternative:

 

First, De-emphasize the relationship between crafter rank and quality-build, by adding an additional requirement to build successive quality builds of a specific class of ship.  Example:

 

Current System:  The Frigate becomes craftable at Level 25.  But I cannot build it Exceptional until Level 29.  So I simply don't build it until I get to that level, which I obtain by churning out Basic Trader Lynxes. Then I build exclusively-Exceptional Frigates until I obtain the desired Blueprints.  And then back to the grey T-Lynxes until I reach the next gold-ship build level.

 

Suggested System:  The Frigate becomes craftable at Level 25. Even if I wait until I'm much higher level, the first Frigate built can ONLY be Basic or perhaps Common. Only then can I build a Fine..and then a Master, and finally an Exceptional.

 

Second, replace the current chance-per-build Blueprint drop system with something tied to number of ships built.  Say, a cumulative chance with each ship built, perhaps retaining a quality modifier.  So, I would have a low BP chance on that first grey Frigate...but would be virtually guaranteed for the BP drop on the eighth or tenth ship if I built exclusively Basic/Common, or on the fifth ship if I went up the quality ladder to Exceptional.

 

-------------------

 

Such a structure would:

- Increase the availability of varying-quality warships in the ship markets.

- Decrease the incentive to put so many resources into the production of unwanted/unused small Basic traders.

- Decrease the uncertainty (and therefore frustration) for crafters in obtaining Blueprints, while retaining the chance element to "get lucky" on an early sub-Exceptional build.

- Go at least some distance toward making Exceptional warships somewhat "exceptional" again.

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