Short announcement on the 1.5x BR reinforcement limit

[Bach]

You are forgetting those in the middle, those who don't like to gank and are not all about 1v1s, 2v2s and so on. The players who like unfair fights such as 3v6, 2v4, 5v8, 8v14, 7v12 and do like being outnumberd and having a challenge. Just not fighting a fleet that is impossible to defeat which is pointless and not worth your time. Theirs not just a group that likes ganking, and another group that likes 1v1s. So right now, basically the only fun right now is for those who don't find ganking boring.

 

The truth is here people just want FUN battles that you know you aren't going to get murderd in within a few minutes. If we still have a 85% chance of losing every single ship we bring into the battle we don't care as long as the battle is FUN. Not being pulled into a battle, you look at the teams and you say. Well this is going to be boring, I already know I'm going to lose without doing any damage at all.

Large battles

Small battles

Or simply using enough recon to see what battle is coming before you get into it.

To get what you are dscribing above just isn't that hard. My group does it every day.

[Bach]

Seriously stop it, you are making yourself look bad.

Atleast contribute to the topic instead of telling every single player to go play arena, each one of us players has a right to an opinion and if we feel the open world is being ruined because all that's left is zerg ganks than we have the right to do that.

If we don't like zerg ganks, and you are getting upset about that, so be it. Not everyone here is wants this to happen to the open world, or be in a zerg.

Actually he has brought up a good point to the topic. The large and small battles are there for those liking even contests and honing skills. What do you find is the problem with them? What would make them better? Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Sureshot]

So you want to empty the open world and just leave zerg gankers in it? The rest play arena? I don't think that's the solution.

[Manta Scorpion]

Well, then put a diplo system in if you want your ganking RvR tactics:

 

Nations in war: No BR restrictions

Not at war: 1.5 BR

 

You can call us gladiators if you want if it is your term for us, but yes we do enjoy fights..we do enjoy beeing outnumbred but not in a stupid manner of so high numbers that it gets redicoulous. And to join the arena is not the same as that. but the 1.5 was a decent thing, if you were not much worse in skill you easy win a 1.5 advantage...if you dont, you DESERVE to be destroyed and should not complain.

 

And to the WW2 thing...there is a small difference: this here is a game, you have the honor of the war, the heros with the "plays", thats the difference between war and a war game.. but well, gonna back out of this lame disscussio... very sad about the change, but I guess I got that point across

[Sureshot]

 

You can call us gladiators if you want if it is your term for us, but yes we do enjoy fights..we do enjoy beeing outnumbred but not in a stupid manner of so high numbers that it gets redicoulous. And to join the arena is not the same as that. but the 1.5 was a decent thing, if you were not much worse in skill you easy win a 1.5 advantage...if you dont, you DESERVE to be destroyed and should not complain.

Well put.

 

I Must say as a vet PvPer since sea trials, it is quite disheartening to see this happen to the game and open world. I Never thought skill based combat would be a thing of the past and all that would be left is ganking. 

[Blackjack Morgan]

Join the arena battles. Not much waiting time for enemies. fair balance. U can feel master of ur great skills. That's what u want, just do it.

 

Large battles

Small battles

Or simply using enough recon to see what battle is coming before you get into it.

To get what you are dscribing above just isn't that hard. My group does it every day.

 

Actually he has brought up a good point to the topic. The large and small battles are there for those liking even contests and honing skills. What do you find is the problem with them? What would make them better?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but when we had the 1.5 BR system you sure as hell could still have 5v1 or a 10v1 even....it did NOT prevent that....it just required that those 5 or 10 ships be sailing in formation close enough that they were inside the engagement circle. It is completely misleading to act like those of us that thought it was a good mechanic only wanted 1v1's....no, we just wanted the brainless zerg to actually need to do something besides blobbing around the map. Removing the BR requirement does nothing more than promote all the worse styles of gameplay we currently have in game right now....port campers....zerg blob groups....invisibility abusers. Having an expectation that those who decide to sail in a large group might be required to sail in "formation" to reap the benefits of those numbers does not mean we only want arena style game play. Far from it....I just don't think we should be rewarding lazy unskilled blobs. 

[Blackjack Morgan]

In the brief time I've been logged in I have nation chat talking about "wait in port....ok they are attacking now....everyone come on out!". How in the world people can think this is a good improvement is beyond me.

[Sven Silberbart]

Well, then put a diplo system in if you want your ganking RvR tactics:

 

Nations in war: No BR restrictions

Not at war: 1.5 BR

 

..

 

This is a thing i could accept. But better are no restictions :-)

Edited April 22, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[Bach]

So you want to empty the open world and just leave zerg gankers in it? The rest play arena? I don't think that's the solution.

I don't understand how you are managing to get ganked so often in the open world. That experience is not happening to me and I sail around solo more often than not. If I feel I have chosen a relatively safe vector I even do it AFK.

What are you doing when you get ganked?

[Bach]

Well, then put a diplo system in if you want your ganking RvR tactics:

Nations in war: No BR restrictions

Not at war: 1.5 BR

You can call us gladiators if you want if it is your term for us, but yes we do enjoy fights..we do enjoy beeing outnumbred but not in a stupid manner of so high numbers that it gets redicoulous. And to join the arena is not the same as that. but the 1.5 was a decent thing, if you were not much worse in skill you easy win a 1.5 advantage...if you dont, you DESERVE to be destroyed and should not complain.

And to the WW2 thing...there is a small difference: this here is a game, you have the honor of the war, the heros with the "plays", thats the difference between war and a war game.. but well, gonna back out of this lame disscussio... very sad about the change, but I guess I got that point across

If we gave you what you are asking for it would start the game population into a downward spiral despite the good intention. Hopefully that is the point that got across from all these players expressing they're displeasure at it and the populations of pvp1 & 2 noise diving over the last week. Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Bach]

Well put.

 

I Must say as a vet PvPer since sea trials, it is quite disheartening to see this happen to the game and open world. I Never thought skill based combat would be a thing of the past and all that would be left is ganking.

It's not a thing of the past and you shouldn't be such a doom sayer just because this didn't go your way. My group fought and fight 6v20. It's not impossible in this game. Lord Drake defeated the numerically superior Spanish Armada on skills. So numbers don't always win the day. But if you quit at the sight of the Mongol horde at your doorstep then fighting you has nothing to do with skill it's all mental.

[Sureshot]

What are you doing when you get ganked?

 

Eating a box of donuts?

 

I don't get ganked often, the point is. You can sail to enemy waters to look for a fight, you are either going to have to fight a gank, or if you do manage to find a somewhat relatively unfair/fair fight that is enjoyable it would seem enemy wants to bail on the fight knowing theirs a chance they might lose. This is the kind of behaviour that we have now in the open world, and now with the new spawn mechanics, what else do the gankers need to help them? They can just tag you and then the rest can just now sail infront of the original tag and bam now they are infront of you, no getting away.  They have everything handed to them on a platter.

 

1.5x BR was great, be in the circle and you still got your ganks. But for the gankers I guess that wasn't enough, correct?

Edited April 22, 2016 by SeaHyena

[Bach]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but when we had the 1.5 BR system you sure as hell could still have 5v1 or a 10v1 even....it did NOT prevent that....it just required that those 5 or 10 ships be sailing in formation close enough that they were inside the engagement circle. It is completely misleading to act like those of us that thought it was a good mechanic only wanted 1v1's....no, we just wanted the brainless zerg to actually need to do something besides blobbing around the map. Removing the BR requirement does nothing more than promote all the worse styles of gameplay we currently have in game right now....port campers....zerg blob groups....invisibility abusers. Having an expectation that those who decide to sail in a large group might be required to sail in "formation" to reap the benefits of those numbers does not mean we only want arena style game play. Far from it....I just don't think we should be rewarding lazy unskilled blobs.

You completely avoided answering both our questions.

What is wrong with the large and small battles mechanic that you are not using it to get fair battles?

What would make them better for you?

Why do you feel your battles have to be forced fair ones in the open world war zone?

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Sureshot]

Why do you feel your battles have to be forced fair ones in the open world war zone?

 

I don't think you read his post. He didn't ask for fair fights.

[Bach]

I don't think you read his post. He didn't ask for fair fights.

I asked him to answer my question about large and small battle system. He gave me an answer regarding how lopsided battles were still possible on the OS. Not the same thing.

In fact none of you ever answer that question. Why is the current atena system inadequate? Why do you insist we need unrealistic war strategy conditions in the OW to have a "fun game".

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Neptune]

I don't think you read his post. He didn't ask for fair fights.

 

This comes up every time on a thread like this.

 

Gankers have the one extreme to the other. You either are a ganker or you want 1v1s. Theirs no in between. After explaining that we like unfair fights, not zerg ganks about 94549 times they still do not understand. It's like they can't comprehend it or something, I don't know.  

 

I Bet if you asked them what an unfair fight was they wouldn't understand. 

[Neptune]

In fact none of you ever answer that question. Why is the current atena system inadequate? Why do you insist we need unrealistic war strategy conditions in the OW to have a "fun game".

 

It's not unrealistic. The open world is sped up, it is compressed speeds. So you are actually way behind where you would be when you enter the battle. The battles are Real time and the open world is compressed time. So teleporting 25 ships into a battle after a tag is unrealistic. Maybe we should have real life sailing times without any compression? That will fix the problem, right? 

[Bach]

Eating a box of donuts?

I don't get ganked often, the point is. You can sail to enemy waters to look for a fight, you are either going to have to fight a gank, or if you do manage to find a somewhat relatively unfair/fair fight that is enjoyable it would seem enemy wants to bail on the fight knowing theirs a chance they might lose. This is the kind of behaviour that we have now in the open world, and now with the new spawn mechanics, what else do the gankers need to help them? They can just tag you and then the rest can just now sail infront of the original tag and bam now they are infront of you, no getting away. They have everything handed to them on a platter.

1.5x BR was great, be in the circle and you still got your ganks. But for the gankers I guess that wasn't enough, correct?

Read what you just wrote.

"I don't get ganked that often". So why are we even talking about this.

If you sail alone into enemy waters looking for a fight shouldn't it end up being unfair. You, after all, chose to put yourself there.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Neptune]

Read what you just wrote.

"I don't get ganked that often". So why are we even talking about this.

If you sail alone into enemy waters looking for a fight shouldn't it end up being unfair. You, after all, chose to put yourself there.

 

Lol you don't get it do you? 

 

For Everyone who wants less ganking, is not the fact that they can't avoid ganks, it's that that IS what most of the PvP consists of. It can take you hours to find a fight that isn't a gank. 

And now avoiding ganks being easy, that is less true, because even if you defensive tag. The enemy can just sail past the original tag and spawn infront of you.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Acadian44

[Bach]

It's not unrealistic. The open world is sped up, it is compressed speeds. So you are actually way behind where you would be when you enter the battle. The battles are Real time and the open world is compressed time. So teleporting 25 ships into a battle after a tag is unrealistic. Maybe we should have real life sailing times without any compression? That will fix the problem, right?

How does this answer the large and small battles question?

We all use the same time compressed open world. Barring invisible entry from ports or battles it's just as fair to either side. If you are in enemy waters you should xpect the time compression to likely work in their favor. When you are in your home waters it will likely work in your favor.

[Bach]

Lol you don't get it do you?

For Everyone who wants less ganking, is not the fact that they can't avoid ganks, it's that that IS what most of the PvP consists of. It can take you hours to find a fight that isn't a gank.

And now avoiding ganks being easy, that is less true, because even if you defensive tag. The enemy can just sail past the original tag and spawn infront of you.

That's because it's modeled after a war zone and not an arena. No war strategy ever revolved around generating a fair fight when one can get a strong one. By the same token most generals wouldn't engage by choice without first securing an advantage. In short, you shouldn't be expecting a fair fight in a war zone. It goes against every concept and study of warfare. You sir are obviously not here to fight a war. Hence gladiators.

Still waiting for an answer on the large and small battles and what would make them better for you.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Neptune]

That experience is not happening to me and I sail around solo more often than not. If I feel I have chosen a relatively safe vector I even do it AFK.

 

I'll do what you have been doing. If you sail solo so often, then why are you so worried about not being able to gank for then? 

Edited April 22, 2016 by Acadian44

[Bach]

I'll do what you have been doing. If you sail solo so often, then what are you so worried about not being able to gank for then?

Because when I'm not sailing solo doing Econ I'm sailing with the squadron waging war. I see your efforts would stop the war being as war like as I prefer it to be.

Still waiting for an answer on what's wrong with the large and small battle arena system.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bach

[Neptune]

That's because it's modeled after a war zone and not an arena. No war strategy ever revolved around generating a fair fight when one can get a strong one. By the same token most generals wouldn't engage by choice without first securing an advantage. In short, you shouldn't be expecting a fair fight in a war zone. It goes against every concept and study of warfare. You sir are obviously not here to fight a war. Hence gladiators.

This comes up every time on a thread like this.

 

Gankers have the one extreme to the other. You either are a ganker or you want 1v1s. Theirs no in between. After explaining that we like unfair fights, not zerg ganks about 94549 times they still do not understand. It's like they can't comprehend it or something, I don't know.  

 

I Bet if you asked them what an unfair fight was they wouldn't understand. 

 

 

We want UNFAIR FIGHTS, not seal clubbing zerg ganks. 

 

Also I wouldn't say sailing solo doing Econ is sailing "solo". You aren't looking for fights are you? Sailing solo is not someone that sails solo in a trader, that would be sailing in a warship looking for fights. So in other words you only sail solo in traders to do econ but the only time you fight is with a group to protect your back?  

Edited April 22, 2016 by Acadian44

[Anne Wildcat]

Still waiting for an answer on what's wrong with the large and small battle arena system.

Maybe he, like me, likes the thrill of sailing in enemy waters looking for an unexpecting player instead of a 'here you go, battle'.