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Remove 1.5BR anti-gank programming


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Well in fact, after some ganking days in Briti waters, sinking any ships in view, it's really boring to sink a surprise/renom/trinco/cerb even a 3rd at 8vs1.... Forcing ppl to take some risks (some because 3trinco or consti vs anything still easy) is a good move for me. the 1.5br isn't making all fight fair, it just limit the ganking to something less boring for the 2 side of a fight !!!!!!!!

 

And if you have a video, where someone sink 2-3 ship during a 6v1 battle, i'm really interrested ! And i'm talking about a real gank squad, with trinco/ reno and consti.

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Why do people freak out on the forum when this hasn't even been implemented in the game nor tested yet? Like seriously, test it first then come to the forum with your feedback.

 

Ganking is discouraging a huge number of players and making the game boring for them. It is in early access and their needs to be no stone left unturned. Everything must be tested and eventually a solution will come out of it.  EARLY ACCESS -> EXPECT TESTING......

 

On the contrary - from the responses in this forum it seems that the allowance of 'ganking' is actually supported by many more people than those who agree with you

Edited by mouse of war
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On the contrary - from the responses in this forum it seems that the allowance of 'ganking' is actually supported by many more people than those who agree with you

Game development isn't just a matter of doing what the more vocal want (if what you state is right)...

 

However, one great feature for a PvP/E server could be an option panel allowing players to choose the conditions of being tagged :

- who can tag them (players and/or bots)

- if they want a max BR difference of say 1.5 when attacked or no condition at all (allowing ganking on them).

 

That said, the same conditions for all may be better.

And btw, a max BR difference = 1.5 allows fights between 1 Niagara (20 guns) vs 2 brigs and 1 snow (54 guns).

Isn't it unfair enough ? Isn't it fun ganking ?

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On the contrary - from the responses in this forum it seems that the allowance of 'ganking' is actually supported by many more people than those who agree with you

 

just to bad, that a forum is most of the time only the minor part of the actuall player base. If you really wanted to have accurade oppinion about his mechanic, you had to make a ingame voting about it.

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Game development isn't just a matter of doing what the more vocal want (if what you state is right)...

 

However, one great feature for a PvP/E server could be an option panel allowing players to choose the conditions of being tagged :

- who can tag them (players and/or bots)

- if they want a max BR difference of say 1.5 when attacked or no condition at all (allowing ganking on them).

 

That said, the same conditions for all may be better.

And btw, a max BR difference = 1.5 allows fights between 1 Niagara vs 2 brigs and 1 snow. Isn't it unfair enough ? Isn't it fun ganking ?

 

Development is about doing what is best for the game and that generally means what most players want from the game - so it's not the 'most vocal' it's the 'most'

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just to bad, that a forum is most of the time only the minor part of the actuall player base. If you really wanted to have accurade oppinion about his mechanic, you had to make a ingame voting about it.

 

Totally agree but I'm starting to think that perhaps there should be a Sea Trials server for those who are inclined more towards arena-type pvp than the strategy and tactics of the open-world

Edited by mouse of war
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I don't see how this patch destroys ganking though it will limit it for sure.

A group of 6 friends that have same ships can still tag a poor player that was 'lost' in OW and shoot the s**t out him.

 

But it will require more skill as they all need to be in the tag circle from start  :)

 

Is this a bad? No, a great move forward as it will get rid of those 1 or 2 Reno + 3rd rate + Trinco where the fast ship goes and tags the player and the rest have 2mn to sail into battle.

 

We'll now see real wolf packs sailing nicely packed in OW and that my friends will be a real danger.

 

As for outside help, well the tagged player better not be alone (same as today) and even if he isn't, the BR limit will avoid an unfair reinforcement arriving up to 2mn after and changing the course of the battle.

 

So what are you gankers complaining about? You lack the ships and skill? 

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Moderated this topic a little bit. Please stay on topic and propose solutions.

suggestion

First:  remove the BR limitation. If a ganking group is going into enemy water, the other nation has to group up and kick there ass. That's the heart of the PvP concept (imho).

Second: if people doesn't want to be ganked, they have to move to a more safe habour. If there is no safe habour, they have to create one (capping other habours)

third:  make it possible that player can relocate faster that they can help in case of emergency. currently you need 3h to drive ober the whole map. reduce it to 1.5h and then the operational group(s) of a nation can help there people. To da that 1) increase the daytime speed what will increase the OW speed 2) decrease the wind turning time (e.g. daytime speed x2, wind tunring /2)

V1 fourth: implement a malus to palyer which start attacking and are on see (ingame days) for more then 5 Days with driving only. If a fight was done before those 5 ingame days the counter has to resetted to 0. SO you can hunt in enemy areas but you can't drive over the complete map to make an habour assault there or anything else. Free Ports doesn'T reset that counter.

v2 fourth: forget v1 fourth. Players which are travled over 5 days aren'T allowed to take part in a PR.

that's my first idea with only 3 min of thinking. with that the palyer can solve the ganking issue with ganking the gankers and the PR system shouldn't be really touched with that changes.

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Main issue that this change will "fix" will be the bait+hidden in result screen buddies system.

 

As a side effect it will affect the slow pokes ( like me when not in the Hyena or the Bobcat ) but it is acceptable, just keep your flotilla closer to each other.

 

As it relies on BR, time to rethink the Privateer for many "the bigger the better" sydrome captains :)

 

Exactly,

 

no more Constitution ganking groups, which is fine. 6 People can still enjoy jumping a single 3rd rate - they just need to make a smarter choice in ship types.

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Exactly,

 

no more Constitution ganking groups, which is fine. 6 People can still enjoy jumping a single 3rd rate - they just need to make a smarter choice in ship types.

 

Take notice that this counts for after battle start. The 6 people can still attack but have to be eligible ( not invulnerable ) and inside the circle - AND - their position in OW will be their spawn position.

 

Whether the players like it or not the OW Attack was half the battle won before and now even more. Also the relative spawns will permit a skilled evasive OW counter tag and not simply the absent-minded cow mooooing attack when in distance.

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This just seems to favour organised specialised groups from how I see it. At that would favor gankers.

Defenders are likely to be more spread out but more numerous so come as reinforcements. Which means on average less would join than before and away from the battle giving gankers a better chance to sink a ship before escaping and less potential enemies chasing them. Even in the worst outcome it's 6 v 9 (for a fleet of 6 gankers), and I doubt you would end up with all of those 6 being picked up as with a defending fleet of 25.

If not all of the gankers have joined the battle that simply means you have gankers looking for an additional battle, so once again more ganks are possible.

I'll obviously wait until I've seen the patch in action to make proper judgement tho.

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I think the main problem is this:

When you fight with 10 ships against 1 it is NEITHER satisfying for the superior (because they will get almost no xp) NOR for the inferior (he will not have the chance to do any remarkable damage before sinking, so he's trying to run away) and in the end you'll find on the gankers side, that you have indeed wasted 2 hours of gameplay, independent whether you had any battle or not. So I'll welcome the new 1.5 BR rule and am eager to test it the next weeks.

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players have not yet fully experienced the benefits and negatives of positional reinforcements 

after they do 1.5 br limiter will sound like a blessing

Suggestion 2

everyone can join a battle for the first 30 seconds of a battle, then your new BR x 1.5 Limitation will lbe used for any other "reinforcement"

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Copy pasta from patch thread.

 

 

"You are now catering to the solo minded player without putting any responsibility on them to avoid being in a situation where such an occurrence is even possible.  Why are they out alone in the first place in a ship that has no chance to escape except under a narrow set of circumstances?  Should not every captain accept a certain level of risk as soon as they leave port when they are playing a PvP/RvR game?"
 
 
 
Agree with your entire post completely.  Also the use of counter tagging mitigates the possibility of the solo player being ganked.   A solo player who is situational aware can reasonably sail around enemy waters without much fear of a gank.
 
If someone is getting ganked the have no one to blame but themselves. 
  • They are sailing alone
  • In a slower ship
  • Deep in enemy territory or known hot spot for piracy
  • Are not scanning the horizon
  • Are not counter tagging
  • Are not Tagging NPCs to avoid being tagged in a bad situation
  • do not know their ships strengths vs their opponents
  • Do not know their best wind vs enemy ships
  • Do not know how to use invisibility/ invulnerability timer
  • Sailed to that region with no plan of escape if needed

All of the anti-ganking game mechanics are already there.  Point blank people getting ganked need to L2P.  This is a PvP game correct?

BR cap hurts group pvp which is what this game is going to end up being about once everyone is max rank and has more money then they known what to do with.

 

 

IMO:

  • Cap mission enemy join timer to 2 mins.
  • Cap enemy join any other engagement to 5 mins
  • Leave counter tagging
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Why are they out alone in the first place in a ship that has no chance to escape except under a narrow set of circumstances?  Should not every captain accept a certain level of risk as soon as they leave port when they are playing a PvP/RvR game?"

Because a world full of nothing but Trincomalee and Renommee is goddamn boring.

 

Because in real life frigates were supposed to operate alone in any waters, even if they weren't the fastest ship in the fleet, and the enemy navy didn't spend all its resources sailing around in stupid furballs of vessels.

 

Because the old way results in no good fights and hours of running.

 

If this was a combat flight simulator it would be silly to promote solo play. But this is what frigates and other light warships were built to do.

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Two examples of fights allowed by the max BR difference of 1.5 : 

(based on data from http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Ships)

 

1 Belle Poule vs. 1 Trincomalee + 1 Mercury.

 

1 Third Rate vs. 1 Bellona + 1 Trincomalee

This just shows how stupid this new rule is!

In what time does the Naval Action become a game of maths and calculations. Whenever you see a single target, your first reaction is, instead of chasing him with the group, to calculate the BR difference and decide which members of your group should join the battle to maximize your advantages. Too complicated and again stupid!

 

If those who complained about being ganked wanna a even fight, please go to duel room. That is the place to preserve and earn your honor and prestige (in a very 18 century way also) ! Rather than accusing others of being coward and childish playing "hide and seek", lol. 

Edited by amosblanco
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at the request of Reki writing

 

You damn right!
 
Gankingis for kids that can do nothing that worth without their  "friends". It is a lack of maturity, besides a cowardly way to play and to exploit mechanics...NOw you will need to get some skills before enter a fight.
 
 

9335865.jpg

 
Gankers is at left corner here. All what you said is about those who fight them with two as much BR.
 

 

Because a world full of nothing but Trincomalee and Renommee is goddamn boring.
With this patch there will be even more trincomalee and renomme because another ships will be useless for OS hunt.
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ганк это одна из компонент игры для малых и средних групп которые не могу найти себе равного противника в текущей механики и идут воевать так как есть
 
убрав ганк просто выбрасывается компонент игры и малые средних групп остаются без фана потому что найти равный бой в текущих реалиях очень сложно

 

Google translate:

 

The Ganges is one of the components of the game for small and medium-sized groups who can not find his equal opponent in the current mechanics and go to war because there
removing gank is simply thrown out of the game component of the medium and small groups are no fun because it found equal fight in the current reality is very difficult
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The issue many of us are complaining about isn't the ability to create unfair fights.  Most of us on this side of the debate are not out looking for unfair fights.   We're out looking for whatever fight is there to be had.  If we are outnumbers 6v10 so be it.  If we outnumber you 6v2 or 6v1 so be it.  Part of the appeal of the open sea patrol is never knowing what we'll find.  Did we bring the right mix of ships and equip them in an optimal way for who we are likely to find?

 

We don't want to create "gank" situations.  It just ends up happening that way in some cases.  We aren't looking to protect our ability to go seal clubbing.  We are looking to go out and play as a group and take whatever is there to be had win or lose.

 

The issue is by focusing on only the ability to prohibit the 'unfair' fights, you are prohibiting fights in general.  You are limiting to a pre-specified set of criteria when a fight is allowed and when it isn't.  When you are doing that you are not creating a 'you never know what you will find' sandbox.  You are creating an arena system that i just in a much larger area of space.  We already have arenas in small/large battles.  We now also have duels.  Yet that isn't enough you now want to take away the dynamic and unpredictable nature of open sea patrolling too.

 

Its great we now have the ability to create group size of 12 instead of 6.  Now unless you ensure that everyone is in the same ship, sails at the same speed and blobs together in a tight pack, you may as well still be in 2 groups of 6 or all sailing solo.

 

We all get you don't like the idea of 10v1 ganks.  Yet if the mechanic puts in place also leads to only 1v1, 1v2, 2v3 and 6 people sitting waiting for something else to sail by then that is too steep a price to pay.  If the 10v1 gank is the cost of ensuring a vibrant open world so be it.  If you want to be assured you will only get 1v1 or 'equal' fights, why don't you just hit the small battle or duel button instead of the sail button?  You get nothing new with this mechanic other than to get another area in the game to get the same type of fight that you already have the ability to get unless you like having to sail 10,20 or 30 minutes to get it, yet you take away the ability for others who don't care about that the only place they can get that flavor of dynamic open world unpredictability.

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players have not yet fully experienced the benefits and negatives of positional reinforcements 

after they do 1.5 br limiter will sound like a blessing

Perhaps not. But many of us have already experienced the secondary effects of such BR moderated fights. This is a better game than POTBS but the player natures and the situations are the same. Very seldom do game mechanics ever actually manage to change the people. The gankers will always find a new way to gank. What this new rule will do, as it did in POTBS, is remove my ability to rescue team mates or otherwise turn the tables on the gankers. Limiting the aspects of how we join a battle actually favors the gankers in the long run. I'll give you two examples from Naval Action in the past month.

#1 - pirates have over run the French nation in pvp2. We use brigs to invade their mission running and disrupt their Econ. They respond with Tricoms and frigs. They get us into battle with a 3:1 BR advantage. Thus doesn't mean we're all going to get sunk. Most cases we engaged in long distance running fight, strung them out an often sunk one or two before they give up. Just because they out BR us doesn't mean they are ganking us. Those were some of the most exciting battles in NA ever. Under the new rule it's very unlikely they would get a mixed ship group of 3:1 BR in the same battle with us. They will start sailing the same all fast ships like POTBS. You can't string out an unmixed group and it actually becomes more of a gank that players are less likely to escape as the diversity of ships seen in battle decreases. Also, if they don't chose faster ships the 1.5 BR that get into the fights won't sinking and due to the invisible hand of the computer forcing the pirates into 1.5 BR bunches we could actually sink them all one group at a time in a very unrealistic fashion.

#2 - 6 of us sail to Jamaica from France to harass the British. It's a patrol. We can't control what we find. It takes an hour to sail there and we need a full load of repair kits to do it. We find a British trader and all get in the battle and sink it. We don't need everyone but it keeps the group together. We catch a victory and a 3rd rate NPC hunting and sink them. The Brits respond with 20 ships and chase us off while sinking some of us. Those sunk on the east side of PR appear in La Isle 30min to east. Those sunk west of PR appear in Cayman Brac 30min west. The survivors are still off PR coast. Our patrol for the night is now done as we're all split up. But it was great fun for the hours we were together and probably great fun for the 20 British that banded together to remove the French. If the new rule was in effect, the patrol group gets divided up sooner and that forces an end to the patrol sooner. It also stops the British overwhelming home port response which they should be allowed to do. If we ship down into faster speed ships we could just hit and run until the British respond in faster ships. In POTBS this new rule slowly forced the whole game into the same two fast ship types for OS play.

I apologize if this seems long but we lived thus for 3yrs and saw all the secondary effects. From the point of view of one ship getting ganked by 10 the open Sea strength computer forced fights make a lot of sense. But over time they cause other secondary issues and trends that didn't get noticed until it was to late to back out of.

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 I have no problem at all with groups of people going round looking for pvp, that's part of the game, but do you really have to retard lower level players progression by jumping them while they do missions ?. that's what causes the new players to leave, that's what causes outrage on the forums and that's what causes knee jerk reactions by the devs to try and find a happy medium. You put the devs in this spot by basically being jackasses and retarding new players progression. If you left the new players alone, until they where actually a threat then I'm sure there would be much less complaining and you might even get a decent fight.

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This just shows how stupid this new rule is!

In what time does the Naval Action become a game of maths and calculations. Whenever you see a single target, your first reaction is, instead of chasing him with the group, to calculate the BR difference and decide which members of your group should join the battle to maximize your advantages. Too complicated and again stupid!

 

 

Or you just all attack together as a group and all join. As i understand it the new rules doesn't affect the initial attack. You just have to decide if you want to slow down to keep your heavier ships in the battle in a long chase.

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