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Remove 1.5BR anti-gank programming


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The new patch is set to restrict Open World encounters to a 1.5-1 BR ratio for any ship not in the original tag circle.

This is a very POTBS destroying concept. More pvp players quit that game over forced "anti- gank" programming that I knew in 6 years playing than any other feature.

It's got nothing to do with people "wanting" to gank other people. In the end it simply comes down to play time. Example: A group of 6 players sails for half an hour to get to an open world patrol site. Along comes a single target after 15 min on station. The target starts running and gets tagged by a tackler. The slower bigger ships are outside the tag ring. The computer program now enforces the 1.5 BR rule and denies the three remaining group members from getting into the action. So now those three players have to sit there on the OS most likely doing nothing for what in NA can be an hour long battle. So now they invested almost two hours into the game and get no action.

This is what was happening in POTBS. Players would form up and sail the sand box only to have the computer split them up or deny them from actions based on trying to make all battles fair. In the end, players will look at this situation as a huge waste of their time. It's not there fault that in a sand box only one target comes along. They can't plan on that or control it but the computer moderated "anti-gank" function will still punish you for it.

The ironic part, nine times out of ten the lone player is still going to get sunk by the 1.5 BR anyway. He is just going to be slightly happier he got sunk by less guys. Meanwhile you got x3 players forced into doing nothing for an hour by the computer that are only going to put up with that a finite number of times.

Getting ganked may suck. But it's still better than being forced to sit on the ocean doing nothing for an hour. Remove the anti-gank computer moderations. It's just going to backfire on NA. It's simply a game that takes longer to travel to patrol points and has even longer battles to wait on than POTBS.

The hardest thing you may ever have to do as Devs is turn a deaf ear to gank complainers. But it is simply the better move.

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Main issue that this change will "fix" will be the bait+hidden in result screen buddies system.

 

As a side effect it will affect the slow pokes ( like me when not in the Hyena or the Bobcat ) but it is acceptable, just keep your flotilla closer to each other.

 

As it relies on BR, time to rethink the Privateer for many "the bigger the better" sydrome captains :)

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Well may be the 3 players outside can go an looking for an another target ??? Just let us test this and we'll see how it work and if players are happy or not with this, we are in ALPHA and you are talking about an very old game, if NA live for 5 years, it'll be great and no one features will be make players quitting, only the time and the new games on the place will drive players outside... 

Edited by charognard666
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So now those three players have to sit there on the OS most likely doing nothing for what in NA can be an hour long battle. So now they invested almost two hours into the game and get no action.

Boo-hoo, gankers don't get their gank.

 

What's stopping the others from going and getting their own fight? Are they too scared to sail without their friends?

 

If the only way they could get a fight was with a speedfit failboat, do they really deserve that "fight" in the first place?

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Boo-hoo, gankers don't get their gank.

 

What's stopping the others from going and getting their own fight? Are they too scared to sail without their friends?

 

If the only way they could get a fight was with a speedfit failboat, do they really deserve that "fight" in the first place?

You don't know what evening teamplay is, John. It removed players from game there. It will remove players from game here.

p.s. Yes, thanks to Potbs anti-gank whiners. They RUIN that game. Now I see them again.

Edited by dolleet
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Main issue that this change will "fix" will be the bait+hidden in result screen buddies system.

 

 

Honestly how often does this happen?

 

I have not once fallen victim to people hiding in port or in battle waiting to pop out and gank me.

 

Theres a 2 min join timer.  Say i hit someone.  He tells his friends sitting in a battle.  they pop out and cant join for the duration of their invisibility and invulnerability.  So they get maybe 30 seconds to sail to the battle and join.

 

I would have had to attack someone right on top of the battle.  I have sailed alone in enemy waters like 80% of my time in game and been successfully ganked like 3 times.

 

Ganking and avoiding ganks takes skill.   The people complaining about being ganked just havent spent enough time on the open waters yet.   They will learn.  

 

I completely agree with the OP.   This is a bad idea.

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No idea how often it does happen but it surely warranted attention from the devs.

 

I am simply reasoning it out, no mistakes, I always advocated that the 2 minute timer was enough IF the national buddies would even care.

 

It never happened to me as far as I know and while being at Nation I always went to save someone that fell to it if I was in the area, so I know what I say when I defend the timer as opposed to the BR system, but let's test it and see how it works.

 

Given 1.5BR is enough to bring a full group of capable small ships versus a lone mission maker ( most of the whiners tbh ) I am not even worried.

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1. the patch is not out yet, let us test it first

2. if you are within the battle circle the 1.5x br difference doesnt matter(so basically if you with friends stay close)

Like if we have Constitution or battleships in our party to be slow as turtle is... Yes we will stay together to sail all around for nothing untill 1.5 enemy forces doesn't gethering to make finally their BR in one place and sink us.

End to battlescreen save means also in most cases we won't be able to sail back after fight. Enemy could pursuit us forever untill all will be sunk. After losed PB you loose whole fleet thanks to zergling around port. If you want to go sleep but was at enemy waters, you won't be able to get home just because they be able to tag you again and again. Fantastic.

Most of things we test comes live no matter how bad or good it is. Thatswhy people scared.

Edited by dolleet
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Ganking is a natural part of any game especially mmos. A player should learn to adapt to the problem at hand. Instead we have to cater to the feels of some players who do not like the situations they dragged themselves into. Now the gameplay is even more limited and we lose more varieties of gameplay that did exist in history.

 

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I understand mate.  I just think the mechanic plays to the lowest common denominator.

 

Maybe ganking is a larger problem then i have experienced but i havent even really seen it complained about in game or on forum.

 

 

I think ganking is a good thing though so i may be biased.   It teaches people to be cautious, learn to sail their ships, asses risk, and gather forces to go pvp the gankers.  Makes people stand up for themselves rather then just cry in nation chat or the forums that they were ganked.

 

In all honesty this change will make my life way easier.  I sail around in small boats most of the time attacking larger boats.  Now i can hit a mercury alone in my snow and not worry about anyone joining no matter how close to port i am.   I'm going to have a field day.

 

I just think its bad for group pvp.

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Ganking is a natural part of any game especially mmos. A player should learn to adapt to the problem at hand. Instead we have to cater to the feels of some players who do not like the situations they dragged themselves into. Now the gameplay is even more limited and we lose more varieties of gameplay that did exist in history.

 

When the British 'ganked' Constitution they were actually sailing in company. They opened the battle with all of them 'in the circle.' Not a disorderly gaggle spreading out a net reliant on instantaneous communications, drone cameras and huge spotting distances.

 

IRL you can't climb to the masthead and watch Mariel from Havana. Draw distance in the game is at least twice what it is in reality, and it isn't affected by darkness.

 

You can still gank, you just have to be disciplined about it. No more exploiting one tackler and then warping an entire fleet into one spot thirty seconds later. How historical is that?

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Boo-hoo, gankers don't get their gank.

 

What's stopping the others from going and getting their own fight? Are they too scared to sail without their friends?

 

If the only way they could get a fight was with a speedfit failboat, do they really deserve that "fight" in the first place?

You damn right!

Gankingis for kids that can do nothing that worth without their  "friends". It is a lack of maturity, besides a cowardly way to play and to exploit mechanics...NOw you will need to get some skills before enter a fight.

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You damn right!

Gankingis for kids that can do nothing that worth without their  "friends". It is a lack of maturity, besides a cowardly way to play and to exploit mechanics...NOw you will need to get some skills before enter a fight.

 

Can't count the times people run away from a fight being tagged 1 on 1 with the same model of ship. It is a state of mind, not mechanics.

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I think it's a reasonable feature and I'm not willing to demonize it until we've tried it in-game. To be honest I've been annoyed with ganks lately (more so that in that they are too easy to accomplish without any chance of counterering the gank), though I wanted a more dynamic battle join timer solution than a restrictive one.

Edited by Sir Robert Calder
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As it relies on BR, time to rethink the Privateer for many "the bigger the better" sydrome captains :)

Bigger is better! How dare you claim otherwise?! :P

 

 

I'm not particulary fan of that stuff, but let's see before really judging.

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Well may be the 3 players outside can go an looking for an another target ??? Just let us test this and we'll see how it work and if players are happy or not with this, we are in ALPHA and you are talking about an very old game, if NA live for 5 years, it'll be great and no one features will be make players quitting, only the time and the new games on the place will drive players outside...

POTBS tested this for years. I'm not sure how you think we're likely to reach different results for doing the same thing. But sure, have at it.

The three players sitting outside probably didn't joint the game solo. They probably joined their clan to sail together as a team. In POTBS this rule broke up teams and it will do the same thing here. Battles in NA can take an hour. If those second three do go get in another battle then they may miss the others coming out of theirs. Etc.. Etc.. POTBS examples for years. You just end up splitting up teams for the sake of one lone guy that's most likely still getting sunk by the 1.5 BR anyway.

One pissed off player is better than x3 bored ones.

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You damn right!

Gankingis for kids that can do nothing that worth without their  "friends". It is a lack of maturity, besides a cowardly way to play and to exploit mechanics...NOw you will need to get some skills before enter a fight.

  1. Sail out alone in Live Oak Pavel with Extra Planking and Turning Trim and Stiffness.
  2. Get ganked because you can't escape anything.
  3. Claim everyone else lacks skill.
  4. Call them cowards and unironically suggest they are immature for not giving you a chance to win.
  5. Demand developer fix.

Did I miss anything? Just want to make sure I understand correctly before judging you.

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Ganking is good for RvR and it is good for the open sea's effects of RvR.

 

This anti gank rule has been applied multiple times over multiple games and it always ends the same way. Bored players. Any combat game the puts artificial restrictions on joining combat ultimately negates the reasons for combat in the first place.  

 

The way this rule is conceived will neither get rid of ganking nor satisfy people who pvp in groups. It will only result in increasing the number of players who don't get to pvp.  

 

Players will adapt and instead of grouping with their clans members who sail in "unlike" ships they will all group up in similar ships and sail in clumps. Tacklers will be negated and now you will see players in all the same kinds of ships sailing in large clumps.

 

Combined arms no longer means anything, gone are the days of Privateers, Pickle combo's, trade hunting will be a solo job only.

 

Ironically they add this mechanic the same time they extend groups to 12. They increased group size but at the same time decreased the likelihood of that group actually getting to play with each other.

Edited by Vllad
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NOw you will need to get some skills before enter a fight.

 

Actually it will dumb down PVP not increase the skill of players.

 

Players learn to fight better when they are forced to not when you spoon feed them. Having to learn how to take on a beat 6 players when you only have 3 when out gunned or learn how to survive a 12 on 1 duel makes players better.

 

1v1/3v3 creates PVP for dummies.

 

Players never improve their skills unless faced with extreme threat. They always take the path of least resistance and it makes players lazy.

Edited by Vllad
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This hurts my head, people can't play the game without their ganks, they are worried that they won't have a superior force that is impossible for enemy to defeat on their side every battle. And you can still gank people, just be in the battle circle when the tag starts. Keep in mind this is just being tested, gankers always freak out so easily, it's just being tested. Chill........

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Actually it will dumb down PVP not increase the skill of players.

 

Players learn to fight better when they are forced to not when you spoon feed them. Having to learn how to take on a beat 6 players when you only have 3 when out gunned or learn how to survive a 12 on 1 duel makes players better.

 

1v1/3v3 creates PVP for dummies.

 

Players never improve their skills unless faced with extreme threat. They always take the path of least resistance and it makes players lazy.

Just think of it this way...

 

We're concerned about the PvP skills of the gankers and want to make sure they learn how to fight.

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Oh no don't take away my ganks! How will we PvP? If I get into a battle that is 1.5x BR capped we are sure to get crushed! We have never done any PvP that wasn't 5x enemy BR, please take out this system devs or we will have to go to the PVE server! 

 

*sarcasm* yawn. moving on.

Edited by Acadian44
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Just think of it this way...

 

We're concerned about the PvP skills of the gankers and want to make sure they learn how to fight.

 

 

I am not sure how people sitting outside of battles is going to accomplish that.

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