Rules sub-forum

[Mongoose McMoose]

There should be a new section in the forum clearly named "In-Game Rules" wherein the rules we are expected to follow within the game are plainly spelled out.

[SteelSandwich]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/

 

Those rules apply ingame as well.

 

Edit:

they might not be in plain sight, yet with one click they can easily be found, pinned on the top of the list.

[Mongoose McMoose]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/

Those rules apply ingame as well.

Edit:

they might not be in plain sight, yet with one click they can easily be found, pinned on the top of the list.

It's bad enough that these rules are not within the game itself - digging through a forum to verify rules which, when violated, can end in someone losing their account (and their money!) is not an acceptable state of affairs from a professional organization. Since this is alpha early access and the devs are requesting feedback for how to improve things, here is my feedback:

- communication of player expectations requires improvement. You freely admit it is hard to find.

[Balsafer]

Its clear as day don't break the rules.  It says not allowed so you can bet its not a slap on the wrist and probably be a account reset.  The fact you paid money for this game is irrelevant considering upon purchase you agreed to the rules set forth.

 

 

Here are the rules written out plain as day

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/

 

All that is posted in that thread apply to both ingame and on forums and it is not hard to find

[Mongoose McMoose]

Its clear as day don't break the rules. It says not allowed so you can bet its not a slap on the wrist and probably be a account reset. The fact you paid money for this game is irrelevant considering upon purchase you agreed to the rules set forth.

Here are the rules written out plain as day

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/

All that is posted in that thread apply to both ingame and on forums and it is not hard to find

I will call your attention to the following rules specifically:

"Green on green friendly fire results in -3x xp for every point of damage.

Green on green friendly kills will result in demotion to midshipman if the number of kills reaches 2."

Do you see where it could be construed that the rules specifically call out the difference between green on green for the sake of damaging a green ship (with mention of the XP loss punishment) and green on green for the sake of sinking a green ship?

Again, I am not trying to argue against the rules. I am not trying to change the rules. I am not trying to twist the rules for my own ends. I am trying to bring attention to the fact that the rules for this situation are vague, open to interpretation, and not presented in an obvious area that is easy to find.

The rules could be anything, it's immaterial. The rules could say you can only play on Tuesdays and you have to wear a hat. That's fine. But they have to be presented clearly and in an area which is easy to locate.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

The specific word is "kill", not "sink".  This is important due to game mechanics.  A kill is awarded for a certain amount of damage done, which means if you do enough damage to a friendly, and they sink, you get a kill mark against your name.  A few of those and you will be automatically sanctioned by the game.  That said, egregiously killing a teammate can result in you needing to apologize and provide them with compensation, assuming a successful tribunal occurs.

 

Yes, the rules are a bit vague.  Right now, they're effectively summed up as "don't be a jerk".  If you're not being a jerk, you have nothing to worry about.  More obvious and better written rules will likely come as release approaches.  For now, we're in testing, and the rules are fluid as people prove just how many ways they can be jerks to their fellow Captains. 

 

Don't be a jerk.  It's pretty easy really.

[Mongoose McMoose]

Henry, thank you for the reply. It has provided much more clarity than other responses. I'll ask you, then, since you are in the know: am I, as a pirate, permitted to deliver green on green damage to another pirate with the aim of assisting a clan mate of mine who is attacking that ship? I don't believe that action makes me a jerk, as we're just attempting to operate within the confines of the currently incomplete pirate mechanics. EDIT: I understand that delivering enough damage to cross the "kill" threshold is punishable. Delivering some damage, yet not enough to get credited with a kill, will not be punishable in some circumstances, correct?

I agree that the "haha I'm green on greening you because F you scrub, lose a durability hahaha" is pretty low down. However, I was fleeting with a group of frigate pirates and we came across a pirate in a Pavel - naturally we wanted to take possession, so we attacked (part of the fun of being a pirate is that it's not a nation, and true piracy should be about the clan, and not the nation). The red pirate was in a Trinc, and could not stand against the green Pavel evenly. The other green pirates were reluctant to shoot at the Pavel because of the unclear green on green rules. Would you agree that this would be a defensible version of green on green damage? It was not done to be a jerk, but to attack a legitimate target.

Anyway, let me know what you think if you get a chance. I appreciate the input.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Mongoose McMoose

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Henry, thank you for the reply. It has provided much more clarity than other responses. I'll ask you, then, since you are in the know: am I, as a pirate, permitted to deliver green on green damage to another pirate with the aim of assisting a clan mate of mine who is attacking that ship? I don't believe that action makes me a jerk, as we're just attempting to operate within the confines of the currently incomplete pirate mechanics. EDIT: I understand that delivering enough damage to cross the "kill" threshold is punishable. Delivering some damage, yet not enough to get credited with a kill, will not be punishable in some circumstances, correct?

I agree that the "haha I'm green on greening you because F you scrub, lose a durability hahaha" is pretty low down. However, I was fleeting with a group of frigate pirates and we came across a pirate in a Pavel - naturally we wanted to take possession, so we attacked (part of the fun of being a pirate is that it's not a nation, and true piracy should be about the clan, and not the nation). The red pirate was in a Trinc, and could not stand against the green Pavel evenly. The other green pirates were reluctant to shoot at the Pavel because of the unclear green on green rules. Would you agree that this would be a defensible version of green on green damage? It was not done to be a jerk, but to attack a legitimate target.

Anyway, let me know what you think if you get a chance. I appreciate the input.

 

No, green on green damage is never ok.  Because the game places green ships in very close proximity at the beginning of the battle, there are rules that no matter what, you are either to assist any green ship in your battle in defeating the red ships, or, if they're your mates or are otherwise unpalatable for you to attack, you sail in the opposite direction and leave the battle at your earliest convenience.  Allowing green on green given the current ship placement is a recipe for griefing and unfair play.

 

Perhaps in the future, if the way ships are positioned at the beginning of the battle is changed, or other mechanics are changed to allow more than two sides (unlikely so far, but you never know), this rule may change.  For now, though, it is absolute - no green on green damage, and no intentionally hindering a green ship (e.g. positioning yourself so they can't fire while you don't fire on the reds either, etc).

[Quineloe]

It's bad enough that these rules are not within the game itself - digging through a forum to verify rules which, when violated, can end in someone losing their account (and their money!) is not an acceptable state of affairs from a professional organization. Since this is alpha early access and the devs are requesting feedback for how to improve things, here is my feedback:

- communication of player expectations requires improvement. You freely admit it is hard to find.

 

I don't know of a single game where you can access the rules ingame.

 

I also don't know of a single game where you are allowed to attack players on your side.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Quineloe

[Mongoose McMoose]

I also don't know of a single game where you are allowed to attack players on your side.

Well that's the magic of this game - or more specifically the magic of the pirate faction. It's a unique experience within the game because it allows you to group together as a clan rather than a nation. I know that it isn't a really popular opinion, but relying solely on your clan brethren is a lot of fun. I was a huge supporter or the "pirate nation" idea until my clan mates corrupted me and showed me the fun of attacking other pirates.

Edit: to expand on your comment, technically you are allowed to attack any team mate in any game as long as the friendly fire mechanic enables it. However, as in all things you have to weigh the risk v reward for killing a friendly. In games like BF4 the risk is losing XP and the reward is nothing. Killing friendlies gets you nothing. In NA, killing a friendly could net you a massive payday (I have known pirates to score half a million gold in value after raiding a pirate trader), and the risk is - what? Being ostracized? That's worth it.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Mongoose McMoose

[Balsafer]

Killing a friendly player will not net a massive payday atleast it should not

[Mongoose McMoose]

Killing a friendly player will not net a massive payday atleast it should not

It certainly does and it certainly should. I took another pirate sailing in a gold live oak Trinc which I sold for 80k. Pirate friends of mine have raided unsuspecting pirate traders worth millions in total.

Why is that people seem to not equate piracy with villainy, crime, theft, murder, pillage, and all manner of debauchery against anyone who is unfortunate enough to be victimized? Pirates have no need to be a nation. They should be played as what they are: roving bands of lawless cutthroats. Pirates should be thought of as gangs and outlaws. Sure they can band together if they want, but nothing stopping them from killing each other for a nickel.

[Quineloe]

They're not friendly players because they're pirates like you.

They become friendly players when you are in a battle and their name is green. They're not friendly players before that.

[Galileus]

Why is that people seem to not equate piracy with villainy, crime, theft, murder, pillage, and all manner of debauchery against anyone who is unfortunate enough to be victimized? Pirates have no need to be a nation. They should be played as what they are: roving bands of lawless cutthroats. Pirates should be thought of as gangs and outlaws. Sure they can band together if they want, but nothing stopping them from killing each other for a nickel.

 

It's a game. You can cut throats all you want outside of it, but this - this is a game. And even if you play a bad guy, you need to have fun and you need other to have fun. Simple as that.

[Taranis]

It's a game. You can cut throats all you want outside of it, but this - this is a game. And even if you play a bad guy, you need to have fun and you need other to have fun. Simple as that.

 

You are not addressing the point being made.