Devil's Wrath Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 We are conflicted about this for one reason 1) Right now you cannot find a large PVE engagement even if you want to. 2) This feature (or to some players - exploit) provides this option There are two solutions Disable reinforcement until large pve fleets or epic events are added Keep reinforcement and close the eyes for people arranging PVE for themselves. Keep in mind that a large port battle generates a lot more XP and Gold (from 3000xp and up to 1 mln gold if you participated in a very large engagement) And OW trafalgars if they happen provide a loads of xp and gold for both sides because there are no victory modifiers - you get excellent xp just when you sink enemies even if you lose the battle. So what is the community view on this? Disable Or Keep? I have several questions for those of you screaming disable: Have any of you BEEN in one of these battles? Have you actually seen the level of teamwork and coordination/cooperation that goes into fighting this many powerful ships at once (besides a 25v25 port battle with towers)? With regards to reinforcements from ports: How are you going to feel when they are disabled, you're sailing somewhere near a friendly port, get jumped on and ganked by a group of enemies and have no way to save yourself or your ship? Anyone who says they truly don't care about getting ganked is probably lying. Even if you have the ability to just make/buy a new toy doesn't mean you like losing a crap fight like that. The xp and money aren't really all this is about. I'm actually enjoying the level of intricacy it takes to fight in these type of situations and the teamwork and communication skills this is building within our clan and those groups who choose to participate with us. I invite ANYONE to come and try a couple of these fights anytime and actually be in TS while the battle is going on. You'll see what this is really all about and then you can actually render an INFORMED opinion on it rather than just flaming about it without all the facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'd bet big money that there are now player rear admirals who have NEVER fought against anything other than an NPC. SAD, really. So many people keep are going to lose their precious Victory to a competent player in a frigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 With regards to reinforcements from ports: How are you going to feel when they are disabled, you're sailing somewhere near a friendly port, get jumped on and ganked by a group of enemies and have no way to save yourself or your ship? Anyone who says they truly don't care about getting ganked is probably lying. Even if you have the ability to just make/buy a new toy doesn't mean you like losing a crap fight like that. The xp and money aren't really all this is about. You assume a group, and next to a port. I get reinforced against when it's just me sailing a Trinc out of sight of any port. Just today I hit an unescorted trader's snow by the islands between Salina Point and Mortimer Town, and an AI Connie came out of the Nth dimension to save the day. Since I don't see reinforcement mechanics being tuned to be realistic, reasonable, or rewarding of risk taking any time in the near future, I say be rid of them entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Big Dumb Newb Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Well if everyone else is doing it keep it around till i hit curse too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentaStealz Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 We are conflicted about this for one reason 1) Right now you cannot find a large PVE engagement even if you want to. 2) This feature (or to some players - exploit) provides this option There are two solutions Disable reinforcement until large pve fleets or epic events are added Keep reinforcement and close the eyes for people arranging PVE for themselves. Keep in mind that a large port battle generates a lot more XP and Gold (from 3000xp and up to 1 mln gold if you participated in a very large engagement) And OW trafalgars if they happen provide a loads of xp and gold for both sides because there are no victory modifiers - you get excellent xp just when you sink enemies even if you lose the battle. So what is the community view on this? Disable Or Keep? This is the only thing to do for a large group of players (20+ players) in PvE currently and be efficient Keep until the game creates these fleets on its own for large clans to fight My clan is paying my friend to do this, so he is banking while he plays warthunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleJP Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 It's a good guaranteed way to find PvE fleets, especially when I only have an hour or two to play a night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shameless Anney Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 If fleets of sufficient size to provide a group of friends with enough exp to not just be a waste of time were to exist in OW, this wouldn't be needed.. but I think it's quite a great idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2Y2 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I can only play a few hours every night. Please keep this in the game as I do not have time to look and waste time finding fleets. This also makes grinding cheaper and rewards more XP and Gold. Please do not make this illegal to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigvalco Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I think it is clear that people want large scale PvE engagements to fill the time and help grind together. The other option we have had to do for such a long time is divide our clan into separate grinding fleets to get decent Exp. It is far better to keep people playing and leveling together, not the other way around. On a similar note, I would love to start seeing uncaptureable 1st and 2nd rates in the game to add some spice to PvE and possibly remove repair kits so that grinding these fleets is actually dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I think it is clear that people want large scale PvE engagements to fill the time and help grind together. The other option we have had to do for such a long time is divide our clan into separate grinding fleets to get decent Exp. Reinforcements cause a lot more problems than they solve, especially with PvP. Many consider what is being done an exploit, with one person saying payment is made while the player plays another game. Come now! It is patently absurd for these fleets to pop out of midair, especially right next to your own port for PvE, or out in the backwaters for PvP, BOTH instances are created by this same mechanic. That being said, this bereavement of PvE action can easily be resolved with group or even clan-based missions (5, 10, 20, 25 man missions) and/or massive randomly spawning events in the open ocean. The mechanics as they are cause nothing but problems, and should be able to be replaced reasonably easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentaStealz Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That being said, this bereavement of PvE action can easily be resolved with group or even clan-based missions (5, 10, 20, 25 man missions) and/or massive randomly spawning events in the open ocean. I agree 100%, but until that is implemented I see no reason to get rid of this. We just started doing this, and now more people are playing the game now because it's more fun because we are all playing together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dius Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ok so we have 2 possible solutions for the admin team to take away and talk about. 1st - AI Fleets on the OS need more variety to accommodate LARGE Fleet Actions. 25 players can enter an instance. Give us an AI Fleet that could actually challenge 25 players... (Uncapturable 1st & 2nd Rates should be included in these AI fleets.) 2nd - missions that accommodate (5, 10, 20, 25 man missions) and/or massive randomly spawning events in the open ocean. Can anyone else think of other possible solutions? D, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eishen Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 We are conflicted about this for one reason 1) Right now you cannot find a large PVE engagement even if you want to. 2) This feature (or to some players - exploit) provides this option There are two solutions Disable reinforcement until large pve fleets or epic events are added Keep reinforcement and close the eyes for people arranging PVE for themselves. Keep in mind that a large port battle generates a lot more XP and Gold (from 3000xp and up to 1 mln gold if you participated in a very large engagement) And OW trafalgars if they happen provide a loads of xp and gold for both sides because there are no victory modifiers - you get excellent xp just when you sink enemies even if you lose the battle. So what is the community view on this? Disable Or Keep? Are reinforcements good as they are now implemented? No, but simply eliminating them withouth other changes is not good. they are filling two niches - Providing "high level" PvE pseudo content for groups - Limiting constant griefing on initial/middle players areas When those are resolved hopely reinforcements perhaps will be not needed (thought I would expect them to remain , limited to x distance of provincial capitasl and 4x from national capitals and with a different arrival) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dius Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 And that gentlemen, as they say... is that =) http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12428-hotfix-967/ Thread could prob be closed now not much else to discuss lol... D, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[MCC] Die Antwoord Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Good news! That said, having better opportunities at bigger fleets would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Farragut Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Pretty sad decision seeing as there is no real other option. I don't think reinforcements were good for PVP, but the majority of time spent in game for most people is not PVP. Edited March 23, 2016 by Cpt Farragut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spchancey Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 TBH and fair..... you shouldnt have taken the reinfocements out until you had a viable solution to the PvE content......because now your gonna lose a playerbase that was kept interested by the big PvE fleets and yes i see its (temporary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClovenLife Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 How reinforcement could be reworked. Port only spawns a reinforcement ship an hour into a queue Building up to 25. When a player calls them in, all in the queue join the battle till BR is matched. When all players leave the battle, any ship above 75% hull gets put back in the queue and repairs at a incremental rate. If a second battle is triggered before the first is done, only the remaining queue is used. If the queue is defeated, there is no more reinforcements to farm and players are defenseless. Not many people want to be the reason their port is defenseless. And it makes farming the AI a lot less effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptEdwardKenway Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 We are not going to ban for this (will just make an angry unhappy face), while we are adding large epic pve events there is no other way you can get large pve battle. But we don't like it. By the way we already disabled the best reinforcement feature (the option to give bots orders) because some clever captains were giving them stop command and bots did nothing - this was fixed the next day it was discovered in a hot fix in Jan. Any good mechanic is going to be abused. Here we don't have a strong position because they fight and you can find a spawn on the OW too. If community says its a bad bad thing we will disable reinforcements until their improvement. I like the idea for PVE events but to be honest at the moment they would be pretty useless because of all the port battles and attacks every day. At the moment you are not able to do anything. You are just jumping from one port to the next and try to defend. The whole day. It's stressful and anything but fun and I don't think there would be much time to participate in such PVE events. Sorry for off-topic. Back to topic. I just found this thread through the update thread. I don't think it's a good idea to remove reinforcements. Why not make impossible to use alt accounts? I know if someone is willing to pay again for this game I guess nobody would say no. But imaging all the damage they are actually making in this game with all their alt accounts just to gank/exploit etc. I think it's better to loose all the money from alt accounts and protect the game from more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil's Wrath Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Reinforcements cause a lot more problems than they solve, especially with PvP. Many consider what is being done an exploit, with one person saying payment is made while the player plays another game. Come now! It is patently absurd for these fleets to pop out of midair, especially right next to your own port for PvE, or out in the backwaters for PvP, BOTH instances are created by this same mechanic. That being said, this bereavement of PvE action can easily be resolved with group or even clan-based missions (5, 10, 20, 25 man missions) and/or massive randomly spawning events in the open ocean. The mechanics as they are cause nothing but problems, and should be able to be replaced reasonably easily. I don't know what backwater areas you're talking about as you can only get the reinforce option near a friendly port. But I get it. You TF guys couldn't do it properly and don't want anyone else to have access to something you don't so why not just ruin something for everyone else. Typical. People found a way to work smarter not harder and people just have to whine about it. What you've officially done by whining about this is crew over other players, including your own traders running goods up and down the coast. Good luck with your production and ship building now. To everyone else in the other nations: what this is actually about, as usual, is that TF and TDA leaders (i.e. "The American Council") have a problem with Stars and Stripes players being able to do something faster and better than they could do for their own members so they cried to the devs to get it removed. This is why they like to make the snide little comments about players in Victory's being killed by competent Frigates and Admirals who've never fought another player. Again, what they fail to realize, is that this is also a training tool for players to learn to properly sail these boats in large engagements against multiple powerful targets. Way to go guys.... I hope you enjoy the coastline gank-fest this is going to create (read global if you think I'm lying). I'm sure everyone appreciates all your efforts to once again screw things up for everyone else. Long live the great members of the American Council!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 TBH and fair..... you shouldnt have taken the reinfocements out until you had a viable solution to the PvE content......because now your gonna lose a playerbase that was kept interested by the big PvE fleets and yes i see its (temporary) The PvE fleets still roam around. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spchancey Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The PvE fleets still roam around. *shrugs* The issue with this is i now have to sail 30 minutes to get the right fleet sit and wait 15 for 2 fleets to combine to even become a challenge .. \.... attack it ... fight a 2 hour battle... that nets 1k xp and marginal amount of gold....... whereas fighting 15+ 3rd rates with a group of clan members gaining xp comms and money in an organized fight... is ALOT BETTER..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The issue with this is i now have to sail 30 minutes to get the right fleet sit and wait 15 for 2 fleets to combine to even become a challenge .. \.... attack it ... fight a 2 hour battle... that nets 1k xp and marginal amount of gold....... whereas fighting 15+ 3rd rates with a group of clan members gaining xp comms and money in an organized fight... is ALOT BETTER..... Noted. I like to play the game the other way around. Searching for trouble and get into battles with other players without interference. And yes, we get a lot into uneven fights Yields enough gold to buy ourselves 5 durabilities at the price of 2. Nevermind the XP, we like the privateer/frigate combat. So how to compromise both worlds - you like reinforcement fleets, I dislike them as an interference - in one game ? I agree with you. Bigger AI fleets roaming. Make them powerful. Make them appropriate and dangerous. 25 ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigvalco Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I feel like this is going to lead to a lot worse than just cancelling out large grinding fleets with no alternative. It's going to really hurt when people start ganking without the fear of reinforcements. To me, there aren't enough reasons to hold more than 5 or so ports as a nation, and removing reinforcements just makes it that much more meaningless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macjimm Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 When I started playing NA I knew very little about MMOs. Since then I learned about many new concepts: "ganking, grinding, griefing, exploiting game mechanics, farming, leveling." The whole thing is very personal, political and philosophical. Not saying that I'm very skilled at the game but I've learned a lot. Although I thought I'd learned a lot, but this thread leaves me confused. I can't see why the combat in the above video is cheating. It looks like a group of players have got together in the same place in OW and created a battle where they get to fight a larger force of NPCs. Seems like a reasonable thing to do. No one is parking beside a stationary ship and firing repeatedly at it without taking personal damage. Unless ... let me see if I can follow this. This is considered cheating because some players want everyone to be forced into exclusive PvP and players who use this tactic (big NPC reinforcement battle) will increase rank and XP faster than those who prefer PvP. This tactic leaves PvP fans frustrated because they cannot level up as quickly as players who are using the big NPC reinforcement battles. Is that it? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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