Abuse of flag mechanics to block assault on port - Pirate Edition

[Insomnion]

its a matter of who controls the timer. which I stated in chat, Valco didnt link that part, if we take them from the danes we can put a timer on them easy for the danes to regain, fts's timer will be at 4am for the danes making it annoying to retake. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Insomnion

[SirLeggit]

this is just becoming a continuation of yesterdays pirate nation chat war.

[Magnum]

With the heaps of evidence showing that what you planned was to grief FTS and that you never planned to actually attack the two ports you bought "blocking" flags for ....

 

and your own crocodile tears after the fact showing not only no remorse but no concept of contrition ....

 

I think you should at minimum repay each member of FTS the amount of both flags and more likely should have your personal XP reset to zero as a show of community disfavor of the thinking behind such actions.

[Insomnion]

Evidence? all I see here is USA and British players along with FTS, trying to get me and zombie, and Kutai's account wiped, Kutai who wasnt even home when we purchased the flaggs. I did lose 150k and zombie did lose 450k.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Insomnion

[Nohero]

With the heaps of evidence showing that what you planned was to grief FTS and that you never planned to actually attack the two ports you bought "blocking" flags for ....

 

and your own crocodile tears after the fact showing not only no remorse but no concept of contrition ....

 

I think you should at minimum repay each member of FTS the amount of both flags and more likely should have your personal XP reset to zero as a show of community disfavor of the thinking behind such actions.

Of course, the developers have gone to punish and reset the XP violating the rules of their own game, wipe their tears and have to play again. 

[Vlade lArkl]

its a matter of who controls the timer. which I stated in chat, Valco didnt link that part, if we take them from the danes we can put a timer on them easy for the danes to regain, fts's timer will be at 4am for the danes making it annoying to retake. 

 

So you bought two flags in order to prevent Valco from taking the ports and setting the timers so that his clan can defend that sounds like griefing to me.

 

 

Evidence? all I see here is USA and British players along with FTS, trying to get me and zombie, and Kutai's account wiped, Kutai who wasnt even home when we purchased the flaggs.

 

The evidence is in the screen shots and the actions take by you and your comrades. I am not worried about your punishment I just want a ruling on the griefing against other players and the flag purchase mechanic.

 

 

[Herminator]

This game has turned more to war of the pen then a war of the gun.

Everyone agrees that there is some broken game mechanics in here, but instead of dealing with that matter in a respectable and just way, they use the tribunal for their own personal gain.

If that is not an exploit then I don't know what is.

 

And that is why I have totally left all politics and became clanless.

 

The use of forums to pursue manhunts instead of fighting them on the open world is destroying the game.

[Kutai]

1) That statement alone means you targeted a clan within your faction in an effort to grief them/prevent them from continuing its attacks. It is not up to you to decide what pirate clans can and cannot do. 

 

2) And this point is also irrelevant the difference is FTS actually took those ports. They didn't purchase the flags just to keep you from attacking. FTS is a US time zone clan the timers were set according to that so that we could on for the defense. How successful or unsuccessful someone is is irrelevant as long as an attempt was made to capture the port.

 

The hypocrisy here is immense. So it is ok for a small 10 man guild to do their utmost to cause dissent in the entire Pirate Nation but not all-right for us to target them in an attempt to prevent them from doing so? Again when I say target, I mean dealing with things IN GAME using GAME mechanics that allow us to do so such as intercepting them or tackling their constant drivel in Pirate chat. 

 

Again all I see here is a witch hunt orchestrated by FTS and supported by the enemies of the Pirate Coalition for selfish gain and nothing more. 

 

We did NOT prevent FTS from doing anything.

 

They clearly state they only intended to attack the one port they took anyway.

 

They also were not blocked from attacking ports and were able to attack another either way.

 

Sorry if we caused them some grief by diverting our forces to tackle the Brits rather than lose our southern ports. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Kutai

[Insomnion]

Iam not worried either Vlade, Ive never cheated in games. Ive been playing MMO's for 17 years, ever since UO on dial up internet. Ive nevr Duped, or ,exploited in any way. If the developers decide they dont want a player like me playing, there game I will respect that without complaining. The mechanics of the game are set up a certain way, and Iam playing within the mechanics of the game. Aside from that, I do go and read the forums, and although I saw another tribunal post concerning a player from another faction, joining and enemy, and buying a flag to prevent an attacks, thats not what I have done, even if you believe fts. 

[Vlade lArkl]

Everyone agrees that there is some broken game mechanics in here, but instead of dealing with that matter in a respectable and just way, they use the tribunal for their own personal gain.

If that is not an exploit then I don't know what is.

 

The use of forums to pursue manhunts instead of fighting them on the open world is destroying the game.

 

According to the guidelines about tribunals 

 

What is tribunal? It is a section of the forum where the community can bring forward cases showing players exploiting/un-sportmanshiplike behavior/players of low moral standing/etc.

 

-I think keeping players from playing the game and buying flags to prevent said players from attacking meets this criteria.-

 

In this topic you can post in the following format:

 

3) Toxic behavior   -  Report ingame (right click name and select report)

 

4) Game breaking exploit found by yourself   -  F11-bug report (just press 'F11' ingame)

 

5) Other people exploiting/Damage farming   -  Screenshots + Tribunal topic

 

6) Griefing   -  Screenshots + Tribunal topic

 

This post meets criteria on several levels. 

 

1) So it is ok for a small 10 man guild to do their utmost to cause dissent in the entire Pirate Nation but not all-right for us to target them in an attempt to prevent them from doing so?

 

So you admit to targeting ports to prevent FTS from attacking.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Vlade lArkl

[Kutai]

According to the guidelines about tribunals 

 

What is tribunal? It is a section of the forum where the community can bring forward cases showing players exploiting/un-sportmanshiplike behavior/players of low moral standing/etc.

 

-I think keeping plays from playing the game and buying flags to prevent said players from attacking meets this criteria.-

 

In this topic you can post in the following format:

 

3) Toxic behavior   -  Report ingame (right click name and select report)

 

4) Game breaking exploit found by yourself   -  F11-bug report (just press 'F11' ingame)

 

5) Other people exploiting/Damage farming   -  Screenshots + Tribunal topic

 

6) Griefing   -  Screenshots + Tribunal topic

 

This post meets criteria on several levels. 

 

1) So it is ok for a small 10 man guild to do their utmost to cause dissent in the entire Pirate Nation but not all-right for us to target them in an attempt to prevent them from doing so?

 

So you admit to targeting ports to prevent FTS from attacking.

 

Again all you are showing here is an attempt to twist my words. I have stated VERY clearly SEVERAL times now. We can target this group if we wish within the game however we will always use legitimate tactics. Such as attacking their flag carrier or fighting them in the open waters. 

[Vlade lArkl]

 We can target this group if we wish within the game however we will always use legitimate tactics. Such as attacking their flag carrier or fighting them in the open waters. 

 

The issue isn't whether or not you can fight the group its the "legitmate" tactics of purchasing flags to prevent someone else in the "nation" from attacking. We are not talking about the enemy such as the danes or the bits buy a flag with a spy we are talking about griefing players in the current game mechanics.

[manuva85]

Sad days....

[DarkFenix]

Evidence? all I see here is USA and British players along with FTS, trying to get me and zombie, and Kutai's account wiped, Kutai who wasnt even home when we purchased the flaggs. I did lose 150k and zombie did lose 450k.

 

Actually we're not trying to get Kutai's account wiped. Voicing my opinion of him here would get my post moderated, but he hasn't actually broken any rules. You and Zombie on the other hand; wiping your accounts wouldn't be sufficient for this, I personally think both of your accounts should be perma-banned. You're a pair of cheaters and a ban is the only appropriate response.

[Bloody Hound]

Only one way to settle this. 

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Bloody Hound

[PentaStealz]

 

As stated previously. I was under the impression that they only aimed to take a single port either way and not continue onto the two ports we intended to flip with the danes. As shown in this -

 

 

 

I do not see the issue here and again I apologise for any issues we may have caused. But you can clearly see Penta state FTS wanted A port to hold and they intended to hold the port they took. Even saying this, they then just attacked another nearby port. So either way we did not deprive them of content. If indeed our aim was to prevent them from taking any ports from the Danes. We would have pulled the flag for Samana which we knew they were going to attack. Or pull it for ALL surrounding ports rather than just the two we had aimed to swap with the Danes. 

 

This screenshot was taken after we took Samana and AFTER KOTO grief pulled the flags for Macoa and Higuey.

 

Do you really think I would tell you all of the plans and be 100% honest with the ally of the nation FTS voted to attack days before we did so? (do you believe everything enemy tell you?) The plan was Macoa and Higuey after Samana, and you knew this due to intel you told me you received (valco told a KOTO member a day before), so you can try to spin it all you want. 

 

I'm not upset for myself being griefed, I'm upset for the guys we had log on specifically at the time we had them do this exact exercise, and completely wasted their time sailing. They were griefed, and there is no denying it, spin all you want, but you know what you did was wrong. These guys were alpha testers that are taking a break from the game until the UI is updated, but they come on to help FTS community, this has left a very bad taste in their mouth that I hope the Devs can remedy by punishing those obviously guilty.

Edited March 20, 2016 by PentaStealz

[Herminator]

I see so many brits in here with totally other motives than justice. And that just ruins the game. Atleast let us keep the Tribunal roleplay free.

For me some of the posts made here are totally without any common sense what so ever.

 

 

Let us just do some mindblowing, and think alittle about what this game is about and what the pirate nation is about.

The British got BigValco to attack our ports. He attacked one, and succeded. Then Insomnion and Zombie Pirate bougth to flags on Macao and Higuey.

I had an agreement a long time ago with Pirates that they could have ports on East Haiti(both Macao and Higuey were discussed) to fight the brits when they were in Bani, Santo Domingo and El Soco and putting up stupid timers to prevent us from attacking them(Abuse of game mechanics). Pirates actually have a player base that would fight the brits on those silly timers(brits almost never defended late night timers). However I did not consider that arrangement to valid any more. This was a long time ago. Part of what happened yesterday was asking them to move in there to help us against Brits, put it was a poorly organized attempt and no diplomacy was made with Russians about it either, so I wanted to drop it to not offend anyone. However luckily the pirates did not attack, and I got that confirmation and also told that to my nation in chat yesterday. I told people in Denmark chat to not defend Higuey nor Macao if they were planted. It was "friendly" pirates. However I did tell people to attack BigValco and FTS if they saw them. So when BigValco bought the second flag for Aquadilla, we mustered a defence there and he got defeated. Am I not allowed to "pay off" the pirates to do my "bidding", while Brits can do whatever they want? And when something don't go according to their plans they jump into tribunals in numbers demanding accounts to be reset? If that is not roleplaying in their own personal interest then I don't know what is. Atleast I had hoped tribunal could be fair and we put nations aside.
 

And see what happened last night as well. British claim they put defensive timers against EU zone players for their Australians to defend, and they actually do not defend. Both Tiburon and Las Cayes had timers set to 04-06 and both were undefended. I have adressed this issue to them several times, and they always say, they put those timers so that Australians can defend in their primetime, but they never do. Is this not a part of "abuse"?

Is timers set to prevent PVP or to promote PVP?

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Herminator

[Magnum]

I see so many brits in here with totally other motives than justice. And that just ruins the game. Atleast let us keep the Tribunal roleplay free.

For me some of the posts made here are totally without any common sense what so ever.

 

 

Let us just do some mindblowing, and think alittle about what this game is about and what the pirate nation is about.

The British got BigValco to attack our ports. He attacked one, and succeded. Then Insomnion and Zombie Pirate bougth to flags on Macao and Higuey.

I had an agreement a long time ago with Pirates that they could have ports on East Haiti(both Macao and Higuey were discussed) to fight the brits when they were in Bani, Santo Domingo and El Soco and putting up stupid timers to prevent us from attacking them(Abuse of game mechanics). Pirates actually have a player base that would fight the brits on those silly timers(brits almost never defended late night timers). However I did not consider that arrangement to valid any more. This was a long time ago. Part of what happened yesterday was asking them to move in there to help us against Brits, put it was a poorly organized attempt and no diplomacy was made with Russians about it either, so I wanted to drop it to not offend anyone. However luckily the pirates did not attack, and I got that confirmation and also told that to my nation in chat yesterday. I told people in Denmark chat to not defend Higuey nor Macao if they were planted. It was "friendly" pirates. However I did tell people to attack BigValco and FTS if they saw them. So when BigValco bought the second flag for Aquadilla, we mustered a defence there and he got defeated. Am I not allowed to "pay off" the pirates to do my "bidding", while Brits can do whatever they want? And when something don't go according to their plans they jump into tribunals in numbers demanding accounts to be reset? If that is not roleplaying in their own personal interest then I don't know what is. Atleast I had hoped tribunal could be fair and we put nations aside.

 

And see what happened last night as well. British claim they put defensive timers against EU zone players for their Australians to defend, and they actually do not defend. Both Tiburon and Las Cayes had timers set to 04-06 and both were undefended. I have adressed this issue to them several times, and they always say, they put those timers so that Australians can defend in their primetime, but they never do. Is this not a part of "abuse"?

Is timers set to prevent PVP or to promote PVP?

 

 

 

I guess I can't speak as a tester because I play British (per Herminator) - kind of a double standard IMO.

 

But you bring up so many interesting worms in this can - the giant worm is you accusing Brits of abuse of game mechanics because we set port timers that make you sad.

 

Do you honestly think it is abuse to set the timer on our port as we see fit?

[Ronald Speirs]

I guess I can't speak as a tester because I play British (per Herminator) - kind of a double standard IMO.

 

But you bring up so many interesting worms in this can - the giant worm is you accusing Brits of abuse of game mechanics because we set port timers that make you sad.

 

Do you honestly think it is abuse to set the timer on our port as we see fit?

would have to agree, it doesn't matter what time the timer is set there is always someone around to attack when they want, if its set to a time that the players who captured it want as they know they might be around to defend it then so be it, though sometimes it goes against us as no one is around when the timer opens and you can clearly see that as most battles have been uncontested, this is not that kind of problem we are talking this is buying flags to deliberately stop nations from attacking ports and i don't know why you are trying to defend it, its like someone buying another account and purposely giving money to that player and buying a flag at midshipman and sitting in harbor so the flag never reaches location to stop an attack on an important port during the port timer, broken and a clear exploit as this is from these players, who are the real people ruining the game, I don't need to answer this as its already clear to most around here!!!!!!

[Prater]

I see so many brits in here with totally other motives than justice. And that just ruins the game. Atleast let us keep the Tribunal roleplay free.

For me some of the posts made here are totally without any common sense what so ever.

 

 

Let us just do some mindblowing, and think alittle about what this game is about and what the pirate nation is about.

The British got BigValco to attack our ports. He attacked one, and succeded. Then Insomnion and Zombie Pirate bougth to flags on Macao and Higuey.

I had an agreement a long time ago with Pirates that they could have ports on East Haiti(both Macao and Higuey were discussed) to fight the brits when they were in Bani, Santo Domingo and El Soco and putting up stupid timers to prevent us from attacking them(Abuse of game mechanics). Pirates actually have a player base that would fight the brits on those silly timers(brits almost never defended late night timers). However I did not consider that arrangement to valid any more. This was a long time ago. Part of what happened yesterday was asking them to move in there to help us against Brits, put it was a poorly organized attempt and no diplomacy was made with Russians about it either, so I wanted to drop it to not offend anyone. However luckily the pirates did not attack, and I got that confirmation and also told that to my nation in chat yesterday. I told people in Denmark chat to not defend Higuey nor Macao if they were planted. It was "friendly" pirates. However I did tell people to attack BigValco and FTS if they saw them. So when BigValco bought the second flag for Aquadilla, we mustered a defence there and he got defeated. Am I not allowed to "pay off" the pirates to do my "bidding", while Brits can do whatever they want? And when something don't go according to their plans they jump into tribunals in numbers demanding accounts to be reset? If that is not roleplaying in their own personal interest then I don't know what is. Atleast I had hoped tribunal could be fair and we put nations aside.

 

And see what happened last night as well. British claim they put defensive timers against EU zone players for their Australians to defend, and they actually do not defend. Both Tiburon and Las Cayes had timers set to 04-06 and both were undefended. I have adressed this issue to them several times, and they always say, they put those timers so that Australians can defend in their primetime, but they never do. Is this not a part of "abuse"?

Is timers set to prevent PVP or to promote PVP?

 

 

 

Why are you trying to redirect this tribunal against the Brits (who specifically in the British nation anyway, as a Tribunal needs to be specific)?  Make your own tribunal if you want, but it will just get closed because timers are not abuse and are a game mechanic.  

 

The question at hand that has not been answered is, can a verified person (a non alt) from your nation pull flags to prevent others in the same nation from attacking those ports?

 

That is the question at hand, and neither side has really argued convincingly which way it should be.  What do I think personally?  I don't know.  It is a gray issue.

[Magnum]

Why are you trying to redirect this tribunal against the Brits (who specifically in the British nation anyway, as a Tribunal needs to be specific)?  Make your own tribunal if you want, but it will just get closed because timers are not abuse and are a game mechanic.  

 

The question at hand that has not been answered is, can a verified person (a non alt) from your nation pull flags to prevent others from attacking those ports?

 

That is the question at hand, and neither side has really argued convincingly which way it should be.  What do I think personally?  I don't know.  It is a gray issue.

 

The first part of the question is - is all fair? Is any misdirection, deception, ploy or game tactic not off limit? Is using alts to plant deception and block successful flag planting bad? Is using alts to do that illegal while using your main character just fine? Is subterfuge against other members of your supposed side cool?

 

Here we have a chance to set a standard as a community about what type of play is over the "line".

 

That the actions of the accused harmed the petitioner is clear - so harm was done. The accused claims the harm was just an accidental coincidence, a woops if you will, that has no relation to the admitted fact that the accused has a "Kill on Sight" order out against the petitioner.

 

The preexisting KoS order makes it pretty clear to me - guilty

[Kutai]

The first part of the question is - is all fair? Is any misdirection, deception, ploy or game tactic not off limit? Is using alts to plant deception and block successful flag planting just fine? Or is using alts to do that illegal while using your main character just fine?

Here we have a chance to set a standard as a community about what type of play that is over the "line".

That the actions of the accused harmed the petitioner is clear - so harm was done. The accused claims the harm was just an accidental coincidence a woops if you will, that has no relation to the admitted fact that the accused has a "Kill on Sight" order out against the petitioner.

The preexisting KoS order makes it pretty clear to me - guilty

We are Pirates. We can KOS people in our own faction. I do not understand how this has anything to do with this topic.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Calm down ladies and gents, put your hand bags away.

Suggestion That these tickets become hidden so an admin or mod can deal with the evidence and the claim, then speak to those involved and resolve it. I for one am completely fed up of these public hangings getting out of hand like this.
Its counter productive and darn right disgusting to see. New players to the forum will read this drivel and not play this game.

[Zombie]

Never been to this section of the boards.  Usually accused of being a Pirate not a Criminal....

 

If this is a popularity contest of who has more friends/Allies to post flame on there behalf of tell partial sides of the story or there views on game mechanics I may lose because Zombies  aren't known for there typing abilities and we don't travel in "hordes" like Hollywood's walking dead.  We prefer to just eat brains and enjoy raiding ports solo or in small packs...

 

Some of you have hurt feelings yesterday didn't go as planned; and I understand that.  I didn't go as planed for me either. So apologizes.

 

Most Important Fact:  Why didn't I pull the flag for Samana to block them from taking a port if that was my intention to spoil there fun all along?  I commented on the hit in Pirate chat well before they pulled the flag so pirates would have the choice to defend timers VS Brits or to head the opposite direction which is also fine but they have a deliberate choice to make as FTS did. Pirates are smart enough to drawn the line for themselves.

 

Was at a Port making mats, Knew it about the hit...everyone did because he bragged to all pirates/Nations so much, and I had the gold to cover it.....

 

 

 

- Danes owe Zombie 2 Ports (Sam/Macoa Ideal) (But Macoa is a reginal Cap and not near sorted) More important issues at hand with Brits pushing and still not sorted.

- Black is Black? No...because Brig V would put it on a messed up timer they couldn't/wouldn't defend.  Give it to the British and screen other Pirates like they did Saint N.

- I told Insomian to buy other Flag

- PLAN: If I could beat them there with flag plants and sort out 6-8 people I could take mine (furthest one) and double back and take his as long as he Planted on time. Insom could then TP and attack Jere/Defend Saint N/and the other timers.  6-8 people would be out of the fight on West Haiti though, with this plan it knocks out what is owed + 1 to sort later both of the ports in question would be in our(98% of pirates) timer control and more important the front line for a future battle field.

- If FTS Jumped into the the next port it wouldnt matter because the flag was planned by someone who would be responsible with defense window.

- At this point FTS was braging about some KOTO and others being involved in hits on Danish in Pirate Chat.  Not that we were blocking there content.

 

 

What happened/why it didn't happen:

- FTS was to buzy swearing and cussing at all Pirates in pirate chat and telling everyone how awesome they are because they are so "healthy for the game" as people mentioned here.  There actions were  a direct result of all pirates losing ports on the Opposite side of Haiti.

- I was sorting Drama in PM's and on TS, I was trying to sort players for one direction and assisting Insom for forming on Jere.

- As well as getting lines of communication with Danes while they were in combat in Multi places

- Trying to sort Intel on whether the British fleets massing Danish were coming for West Coast haiti

 

In the end we dropped the East Haiti split plan to get sorted ASAP in West Haiti so we could catch SRLN out of place in Jeremine.  With the hits they were involved in it would have been closer then the day before and it worked.  Did it.  Absolutely you guys were caught out of play and didn't have the 25 stack you guys usually do and some randoms mixed in.  But we still failed to Capitalize.  We were missing some of our own key players and some bad calls on our part by not pushing you gents to the end of the bubble.

 

This Offense was also the best defense for the rest of the timers in East Haiti.

 

We were in place partially for defending a multi prong attack in South Cuba/Haiti which we lost a lot of ports due to FTS's deals with you.  Which you aware of.

 

http://images.akamai...3D5D29E109BB62/

 

(Read chat box)

 

In the end the right choice was made to stay together and pound the drums to do East Haiti because we did hold Sevilla and got back Portillo even later that night.

 

@ SLRN - I personally hold/held you guys in high regard's, But running to the boards to back a one sided story on what you "think" happen or didn't happen in mass shows true colors and intentions.  If your view on winning the game is pushing to Ban everyone playing against you without hearing both sides of the story i feel bad you your so angry/worked up about the game.

 

@ Everyone - I ticketed and GM's have my game log's and they know what happen/didn't happen/suppose to have happen and told them they are more then welcome to post it all publicly.  Zombies don't care.  Maybe I should be a streamer.

 

 

Proposed Fix:

 

- Multi flags can be bought on same place by any nation and first come, is first serve.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Zombie

[Captain Tylor]

I saw the both conversations in the pirate chat, that the FTS troll posted small screenshots off, and they are taken out of contexts and used to try and get some one else banned.

 

I think the OP deserve a punishment for trying to trick Devs into punishing some one else by posting fabricated lies.