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Short descriptions of main concepts for production buildings design.

 

Building types

  1. Shipyard - builds ships
  2. Workshop - build upgrades
  3. Forge - forging metal things
  4. Academy – crafting notes, crew and officer training, marines training etc.
  5. Forestry - growing trees
  6. Mine - mining resources
  7. Plantation (might be added in the future if crew provisions and fishing become a thing)

How buildings will work.

  • Building can produce resources that are available in the national port. 
  • For example if the port has iron – then you can mine iron in that port.
  • Mining or growing the resource consumes labor hours and costs money. Cost to mine (or grow) equals the NPC low range price.
  • Certain manufacturing will not require a building. For example milling planks can be ordered from the port if you have an outpost (docks). 
  • Buildings cannot be built in free towns. (or will have very high production tax).
  • Buildings construction cost will include future maintenance fees to reduce unnecessary clicks in the future.

 

Initial proposal

Player can have 5 economy slots per server.  

Player have to cooperate with others increasing efficiency. Not more than 5 players are required to achieve maximum efficiency.

 

Efficiency concept.

Player can diversify allowing more independence.

Player can specialize providing more efficiency per labor hour invested.

 

How it can work

Player has 5 economy slots.

Independent player can build a shipyard, a mine, forestry, a forge and academy giving an opportunity to build ships solo.

An efficient player will build 5 mines providing a boost to resource production and increasing efficiency per labor hour.

 

For example (numbers are arbitrary)

  • 5 players who have 5 mines will produce 1000 iron ore per day (200 per mine)
  • 1 player with 5 mines in one port will produce 1500 iron ore per day (300 per mine)

Production buildings will provide three immediate benefits

  • Increase the value of conquest - rare resource producing ports will become a lot more valuable for the Nation
  • Scalable supply - more players = more supply, less players = less supply
  • Guaranteed supplies and less contract wars. 

Additional proposed changes to economy

  1. Blueprints learning chance will depend on the crafting level or academy building level
  2. Delivery quests - ports will generate delivery quests if there are a lot of player contracts on the market at high price
  3. Price report letter - npc's will drop a price report letter giving the player information on the 3 random lowest priced goods with highest stock.
  4. Low grade, mid grade, and high grade crafting notes should be implemented
  5. European traders should operate only in capitals
  6. Upgrades break up and cannon break up option should be given.

Discuss

We are particularly interested in your ideas on the building upgrade levels

(should we add them - knowing that it might unbalance demand) 

 

 

UPD.

There is another proposal from our team member on the resources that can complement the current system.

There should also be spawned resources on the open world (in harbors, islands and other locations) which you have to explore and where you can build your own personal harvesting building on a secluded island bringing wood or iron from there to free towns or other national ports. 

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Building types

  1. Shipyard - builds ships

May i suggest different sizes of shipyards?

 

1. Tiny Shipyard - Can build Unrated ships. (Can be build in all ports).

2. Small Shipyard - Can build Unrated ships and 6th rates. (Can be build in all Shallow water Regional Capitals)

3. Medium Shipyard - Can build 6th rates and 5th rates. (Can be build in all Deep Water Ports.)

4. Big Shipyard - Can build 5th rates, 4th rates and 3rd rates. (Can be build in all Deep Water ports).

5. Huge Shipyard - Can build 5th rates, 4th rates, 3rd rates, 2nd rates and 1st rates. (Can only be build in Deep Water Regional Capitals.) 

 

The idea behind this is to make Regional Capitals matter more. 

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economy slot - I take it that means you the player may make 5 buildings total between all ports you have an outpost in.

 

If that is the case, how are you going to allow a player to make ships solo as forestry grows trees but does it grow all trees or only the type of trees a port can support like fir, or oak?  If the port only supports fir, and another supports oak, thats 2 forestry buildings needed, add in the lignum vitea and red wood, and that is 4 out of 5 buildings used already.

 

If the forestry building allows you to make all the different wood types that would make it possible to only need one forestry building.

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Will there be a limit to the number of (for example mines) that can be built at a port? I ask in the interest of creating a monopoly.

 

 

We initially discussed the SWG system where resources could be depletable and respawn somewhere else once they are mined out (or cut down). 

perhaps in the future options for special port slots for which the players can bid on can be added too. but right now.. something simple but working is better than talking about the future :)

May i suggest different sizes of shipyards?

 

1. Tiny Shipyard - Can build Unrated ships. (Can be build in all ports).

2. Small Shipyard - Can build Unrated ships and 6th rates. (Can be build in all Shallow water Regional Capitals)

3. Medium Shipyard - Can build Unrated ships, 6th rates and 5th rates. (Can be build in all Deep Water Ports.)

4. Big Shipyard - Can build 5th rates, 4th rates and 3rd rates. (Can be build in all Deep Water ports).

5. Huge Shipyard - Can build 5th rates, 4th rates, 3rd rates, 2nd rates and 1st rates. (Can only be build in Deep Water Regional Capitals.) 

 

The idea behind this is to make Regional Capitals matter more. 

 

Potbs had 2 types of shipyards - but everyone still built a main shipyard making this separation a fake feature (feature no-one used).

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Potbs had 2 types of shipyards - but everyone still built a main shipyard making this separation a fake feature (feature no-one used).

 

What I would love to see in this game is sepration of ports into 3 main categories (as opposed to 2 right now) and thus 3 levels of port battles - small ships, frigates, ships of the line. Then having different levels of shipyards would have some merit and frigates would actually have some use for the RvR (right now they are just a stop on the way to a SoL).

 

'Small ports' with small shipyard for ships up to Niagara - current shallow water ports.

'Medium ports' with medium shipyards (Cerberus - Constitution) - capturable with Cerberus - Constitution.

'Large ports' with large shipyards (3rd rate - Santisima) - capturable with ships of the line

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What I would love to see in this game is sepration of ports into 3 main categories (as opposed to 2 right now) and thus 3 levels of port battles - small ships, frigates, ships of the line. Then having different levels of shipyards would have some merit and frigates would actually have some use for the RvR (right now they are just a stop on the way to a SoL).

 

 

 

Someone has proposed another system borrowed from Red orchestra. Where the squad gets allocations of rifles, MGs, snipers and machine guns. 

The proposal was this ports and OW battles should allow different max MAX battle size where every ship takes out the allowed BR reducing the option for the next entry. If you wish to bring 10 santis - fine but that will expend your battle size limit forcing you to fight with 3 santis 3 third rates and 10 frigates.. 

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A note - instead of "5 mines is better than 5x1 mine" I would love to see specializations instead. Each player gets X building including/plus Y utility buildings. These utility buildings provide bonuses to a branch of production - allowing for many different mix'n'match builds. You can get +20% to iron mining, +15% to all mining OR +10% to a metal casting branch of production.

 

Player specialized in iron ore mining and nothing else will be best iron ore miner around. But he won't be too elastic - he cannot increase his copper output, because he specialized too much. On the other hand a player too spread in his production will have to bear the fact he gets no bonuses on top of basic production - but he can help in variety of construction projects.

 

More a design mentality than a proposal as such - at any rate I would like to see bonuses deeper than just "6th iron ore mine bonus when building 5!"

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UPD.

There is another proposal from our team member on the resources that can complement the current system.

There should also be spawned resources on the open world (in harbors, islands and other locations) which you have to explore and where you can build your own personal harvesting building on a secluded island bringing wood or iron from there to free towns or other national ports. 

 

This could be a huge game mechanic that could be beneficial and advantageous for single players and large guilds/groups alike. 

So why not both? Ports would be mainly focused on second level manufacturing: [Large] Shipyard, Forge, Academy, etc. Ports could have some raw material extraction, but again, mainly focusing on second and final level manufacturing. 

 

But this idea that raw materials could be extracted elsewhere is superb. These would be places solely for raw material extraction and transport, allowing for some interesting targets and strategic situations (Groups looking for and fighting over certain resources). These plots would provide a pool of a single resource. What's more, these could vary in size and be limited pools of resources. Allow me to elaborate:

  • Varying size: These random resource pools could vary in size which would dictate A: how much resources are available to be extracted, and B: how many people can set up shop for extraction. So for example, a small iron deposit could allow for up to 1-3 players to set up shop, while only having a very small amount of resources to mine. Whereas a huge iron ore deposit could allow for tens if not a hundred players to set up shop and be a huge seem of iron to be extracted. This would mean that large guilds who could provide the funds to take a large deposit would avoid smaller deposits as it would not be worth the extra cost (cost in setting up shop and resources and logistics for moving said resources). This would allow for smaller groups or even single players to set up shop on small deposits with less danger of a large group trying to take their operation.
  • Finite Pools: Furthermore, these pools of resources should be finite, so that no one group could squat on a source forever. Once a mine is depleted or a forest cleared, the players must move and search for another. So these would be continuously and randomly generated.

These plots would first need to be claimed by a nation (costs money) and then set up shop (money), and finally work out the logistics for getting the resources to port for manufacturing (even more money). These plots could be taken over by other nations, but that would cost more as money would need to be spent on first capturing the pool and then the money needed to set up everything previously stated. Pirates probably could be able to set up shops, but they should have no reason to do so. Pirates could stick to smaller size resource pools perhaps. 

EDIT: I have expounded this concept here: World Resource Deposits

Edited by William the Drake

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Someone has proposed another system borrowed from Red orchestra. Where the squad gets allocations of rifles, MGs, snipers and machine guns. 

The proposal was this ports and OW battles should allow different max MAX battle size where every ship takes out the allowed BR reducing the option for the next entry. If you wish to bring 10 santis - fine but that will expend your battle size limit forcing you to fight with 3 santis 3 third rates and 10 frigates.. 

I wouldn't mind to see such a system at all however I'd rather see it applied to some sort of PvP missions (long entry timer, fixed BR for both sides). For port battles, with current population numbers port battles are filled pretty much all the time anyway so this might only frustrate people unable to join because they didn't bother to calculate. Hence why I think capping certain ports at Constitution max would be better and provide much needed gameplay for the frigates in the long run, which IMO is clearly lacking (though I would prefer to see frigates have dedicated role on the open world).

 

As for tiered shipyard making every level apart from highest useless, here's another idea (more of 'specialized shipyards'):

Big shipyard: efficient SoL production, inefficient non-SoL production (increased cost/time to build, lesser quality)

Small shipyard: inefficient SoL production, efficient non-SoL production

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Initial proposal

Player can have 5 economy slots per server.  

Player have to cooperate with others increasing efficiency. Not more than 5 players are required to achieve maximum efficiency.

 

How it can work

Player has 5 economy slots.

Independent player can build a shipyard, a mine, forestry, a forge and academy giving an opportunity to build ships solo.

An efficient player will build 5 mines providing a boost to resource production and increasing efficiency per labor hour.

 

For example (numbers are arbitrary)

  • 5 players who have 5 mines will produce 1000 iron ore per day (200 per mine)
  • 1 player with 5 mines in one port will produce 1500 iron ore per day (300 per mine)

 

 

So if I use my 5 slots for 1 building it will then have a "boost" on the production but as 5 players are required to achieve maximum efficiency what happens if for example 6-10 etc also pick the same type? Will it stay at the same level of production but spread out for all those people how much each building produce? For example as you stated "5 players who have 5 mines will produce 1000 iron ore per day (200 per mine)" if 8 people then have the same will the cap stay at 1000 but each mine then instead produce 125 iron ore? Same thing if I'm alone with 5 mines what happen if another player then put in 1 mine or 5 mines?

Also is each mine a new mine or an expansion on the current mine you got?

 

 

 

  1. Academy – crafting notes, crew and officer training, marines training etc.

 

So how is this Academy gonna work from Game Labs perspective?

 

 

 

  1. Price report letter - npc's will drop a price report letter giving the player information on the 3 random lowest priced goods with highest stock.

 

Will this be for the individuals possibility to access of ports or of all ports on the map?

 

 

 

  1. Upgrades break up and cannon break up option should be given.

 

Are we gonna be able to craft cannons too? So for example as with the ships the AI only sell the "auto dropped blueprint ships" they also only sell the cannons which can be fitted up to like 9 pds/12 pd carronades?

 

 

 

There should also be spawned resources on the open world (in harbors, islands and other locations) which you have to explore and where you can build your own personal harvesting building on a secluded island bringing wood or iron from there to free towns or other national ports. 

So nobody can intervene with these secluded island as they can with all ports but the capital and free towns? Do we get to chose where these resources shall be delivered to and is there any risk in this? For example somebody intercept the shipping and sink/capture the ship?

 

 

 

On the whole I really like the idea but these quotes I have taken out is questions which would be good to answer on :)

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A smuggling mechanic if a port is capped by an enemy nation could be put in place, where the goods produced will be automatically shipped to a nearby allied port with an huge penalty of like 85%, thus avoiding complete shutdown of certain players if their main port is capped (or if all of a particular nation ports are capped).

 

I'd avoid instead finite pools, it would make managing production so burdersome as you could not set permanent outposts or defined routes. A different story is for facilities productivity, that may be tied to the zone where the port is located on a scale of low/medium/high, making some ports more valuable to grow trees than extracting metal and fueling a conquest war on them if they're particularly apt to produce important resources.

Edited by Thomas Symonds

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Well they way i read it, the total prodution of a port will be independant of the capacity of the port

 

exemple

 

Port produce 3000 iron (this is NPC production) will always be there for anyone  to buy

you install a mine it produce 200/day, it;s your, you can sell it to other player, or to port

you can can install 5 mine x 200/day which give you a total of 1000/day (again its your to do what you want with it)

5 guy can install 5 mines, they all produce 1000/day, port still produce the original 3000

 

As for academy, i think they will be produce officers and crew member crafted like any upgrade and actually will act as regular upgrade

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Additional proposed changes to economy

  1. Delivery quests - ports will generate delivery quests if there are a lot of player contracts on the market at high price

 

What about smuggling quests ordered by port / manufacturers from enemy traders when a ressource/good is lacking or in order to sell goods / ressources in an enemy port ?

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While i pretty much like the concept i would hope you would revert your decision to wait with overall ressource limits. Port depletion and ressource respawn may indeed wait, but i am pretty sure each ports need an overall hard cap on producable ressources per day. At the moment limited port production forces nations to reach out. Wheras production buildings in national ports would, as you state, made port holding more important, with the initial proposal it would be sufficient to hold one port of each type and you are good to go.

 

If there is a cap on ressources and if it's calculated nicely, it might actually help smaller nations who'll be able to be content with a few towns but force larger nations on the perilious path to expand and try to defend larger areas. We need to fight for ressources, fight for them hard, and if the amount of ressources produced is basicaly only restricted by the overall player number and the closest port to your capital with the needed node, i fear powerfull nations will become ever more powerfull and conquest matter actually less.

Edited by Nathaniel

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What about smuggling quests ordered by port / manufacturers from enemy traders when a ressource/good is lacking or in order to sell goods / ressources in an enemy port ?

 

those could be fun, but to make it better i would make it that now npc would attack you, near the port..

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those could be fun, but to make it better i would make it that now npc would attack you, near the port..

 

Both players and Bots from both involved nations (and btw from any other nations as there's no peace treaty and official alliances atm) could attack you as a smuggler everywhere.

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I would advocate for different sizes of shipyards. In our time period there were very few major shipyards in the Caribbean, Havana being an example of a major shipyard like the ones in Europe, the Santisima was built there for example. I think it would be important for conquest strategy to limit shipyards capable of building 4th-1st rates. Also repair and maintenance of large ships would have been limited in ports without major shipyards.

 

Most if not all of the production of parts crafted for ship building was done in the shipyard. So here are some building suggestions from historic dockyards which were used for ship building and maintenance, including converting of raw materials, hemp into cordage, timber into frames, etc.:

 

Slipway – used for ship building until the hull was completed that the ship floated out for mast stepping and fitting out.
Dry dock – used for ship maintenance.  In a port without a dry dock ships had to be careened which would have been more common in the Caribbean.
Ropewalk – long building where all the lines (rope) was made
Sail Loft – sail making need large open space to lay out patterns and sew the parts together.
Saw Mill – making and seasoning ships timbers, framing and planking.
Carpentry shed – wooden fittings, carvings
Tarring house – tar and tarred lines for standing rigging
Smithy or Forge – iron fittings, anchors, etc.
Ordinance Yard – made and stored cannon, carriages and powder.

Just a suggestion instead of having a generic “shipyard” that produces all crafted ship parts.

 

Here is an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Dockyard

 

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