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Wind and its role


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how not to make wind a huge, frustrating hindrance to players. (obstacle)

 

Let's discuss

 

So far we have encountered the following problems

 

1. In 90% of cases battle goes in one direction (direction of wind). If we have a wind to the north, fighting fleets most likely move into the direction of wind not using the whole map at all.

2. With a semi-realistic tacking (turning through the wind) it takes time and after trying it once players usually stop doing that and move into the direction of the wind (returning to the problem 1)

3. Maneuver with a realistic wind and semi-realistic turning us rarely used on medium or heavy ships, because 1 mistake with turning and you are either dead, or out of combat for longer time.

4. Collisions with other ships or game objects (stones, land) its usually death of the ship (we need to think through a gameplay way to get off your ship from land or shoals and from collisions from other ships) 

5. Land does not have any influence currently. We have made a nice demo map similar to venice harbor with lots of paths and islands. Players are still trying to fight in the areas that have space for turning and maneuver.Because wind mistakes lead to sudden death.

 

what are your thoughts on wind and all this.

 

 

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I think wind direction and gaining the weather gauge (getting upwind of the opponent) need to be in the game. I believe that goes without question or else the most basic building block of the age of sail is lost. There have to be real benefits from being upwind. The only real benefit from being downwind is you can try to refuse battle or flee.

 

Ships didn't tack in battle. It took too long, required too many crew aloft and for fleets was almost impossible for them to remain in formation due to the different tacking quallities of different ships and the different skills of captains and crews. I mentioned before that in battle almost no-one is in the rigging changing sails. A sail ship did not have enough crew for this. When the enemy was close all hands were on deck (that's what it literally means) manning guns, pumps and acting as marines. Ships were not sailed in battle, they were fought, please get an understanding of this.

 

So in battle ships are only ever going to wear about (come onto the opposite tack by presenting their stern to the wind). This is possible by crew loosing and hauling the lines that swing the yards and these can be controlled from the deck. It still takes some skill though. When a ship wears it should (if the captain/player knows what he's doing) come about onto the opposite tack as close-hauled (to the wind) as he can, so that again he's making upwind. Always make upwind. Always. Make it your mantra. You will never win age of sail battles by sailing downwind. That should be a game design truism.

 

Before battles happen there should be a manouver phase in which ships start far apart (4x , 5x cannon range at least) and players can attempt to manouver upwind of the enemy if they wish. I think that's an absolutely essential factor in naval combat, letting the skill of the player or the weatherlyness of the ship gain them an advantage. I would like to see a world map where 2 players are sailing near each other and when they get close the game takes them out of the world map into a 3D battlespace with a map that replicates the area they met in, centred between them, with the two ships and the wind direction being identical in the 3D battlespace to what it was in the 2D campaign map. A 3D encounter is then played out. This may or may not result in any combat. One player may flee, be downwind and have a faster ship, or he may be upwind and sail away close-hauled and the opponent being downwind cannot catch him. After a fixed time without ships being in gun range, or shooting or landing a shot on target (whatever criteria you want) the 3D battlespace encounter ends and the players are returned to the 2D campaign map.

 

So wind does not just affect combat but it decides if combats even occur. This is really important!

Generally if both sides are attempting to gain the wind gauge naval actions actually should not tend to drift downwind but really should slowly make progress upwind. If in your experience battles move downwind then the captains are either not skilled enough, not trying hard enough or there's something wrong with a game's sailing/wind/combat model.

 

Once you are downwind of the enemy you cannot win. That should really be true in 90% of cases, so battles are all about manouver beforehand. A skilled captain upwind can dictate the range at which action opens and he can dictate if a battle happens at all. If he's got a weaker/smaller ship then obviously he's going to sail away and refuse to fight. If the smaller/weaker/faster ship is downwind, ditto. The ship that is downwind cannot beat up to the opponent with the weather gauge to force a battle unless the upwind ship lets it do so and then it should really pound the poop out of it as it slowly approaches.

 

If a player chooses to flee and refuse battle he should be allowed to try and escape, so you might want to think of your maps not as fixed squares of real estate but as the rolling continuous belts of running machines, providing extra sea in any direction a player chooses to sail with a maximum limit and when that limit is reached ships are removed from the "battle instance" and placed back on the campaign map. As above when a time limit is reached in which nothing significant happens, end the encounter.

 

How big are your battle maps? You need HUGE areas of sea to do sailing naval warfare and tactics justice. I'd suggest at least 10miles x 10miles for 1 vs 1 combats and up to 50mls x 50mls square for fleets of around 30 ships. A WWI naval combat game I played a couple of years back had 3D battle space instances 200miles on a side giving a battlespace of 40,000 sq miles and that did not seem big with light cruisers doing 28 knots and battleships doing 20. We frequently sailed off the edge of the map. Sailing ships will be moving at about 1/3 those speeds and moreover may need extra space in one direction.

 

I am okay with ships turning more quickly than they could IRL, or else we'll all be here til tomorrow lunctime playing. Guns likewise need to fire a little faster than IRL and damage accrue faster. Perhaps you should write a set of combat game code at fully scale speeds and then just 2x it and see how it works. I am okay with wearing being relatively easy and mistakes not occurring. It was a basic manouver and only the worst landlubbers might mess it up. I would prefer not to have a game which penalises players for doing things right but where there's a 'bad luck' element that ruins their game; I'm for a game that rewards skilled play and knowledge of the periods tactics.

 

Yes running onto shoals will indeed ruin your day and be game over. I would prefer combat to be much more based in blue water away from land. All this dodging in and out of pretty islands with white beaches and palm trees stuff is pure Hollywood, please try to avoid that. A map that's all sea or has a straight-ish coastline just down one side is also much easier on computers; land requires much more rendering, and shoal water requires more calculations. If players enter combat in shoal waters they should be allowed to do so but make it unforgiving, especially if its a lee shore. Once they've wrecked their ship on a beach or rocks they'll think twice about fighting near land again. Design a game that teaches people as they go. Make it real enough and they will begin to make the same correct decisions captains of 250 years ago did.

 

I wouldn't say collisions with other ships is fatal unless they are a great deal bigger, but two squareriggers colliding will almost always tangle rigging and become fouled together meaning that one side or t'other tries to board and one ship is usually taken as a prize. I guess fatal in the mid-term then, but not fatal from the initial collision.

 

I hope this is useful, especially my thoughts on how the 2D campaign world should directly influence 3D battles. An online game set up on those principles would be fascinating and engaging.

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I agree wind should be a huge factor in battles, tacking and sailing into the wind should give huge penalties during battle.  

 

A small mention (off topic) about blue water (deep sea) battles vs sailing among the shoals.  I would love to see draft of the ship come into play where a small sloop could escape the heavy frigate by fleeing into the shallower waters, or a smuggler hugging the coastline to avoid heavy patrols and the naval cuter patrolling there looking for them.  This was a tactic that was used and I would love to see it somehow integrated into the game.

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PotBS had one excellent aspect: its combat gameplay. Tactics, knowledge, experience (and communication) were all needed to get the upper hand in 1v1 to 6v6 and 24v24 battles. Skills timing had a share of this, but the sailing physics made for a good basis.

1. In 90% of cases battle goes in one direction (direction of wind). If we have a wind to the north, fighting fleets most likely move into the direction of wind not using the whole map at all.

2. With a semi-realistic tacking (turning through the wind) it takes time and after trying it once players usually stop doing that and move into the direction of the wind (returning to the problem 1)

3. Maneuver with a realistic wind and semi-realistic turning us rarely used on medium or heavy ships, because 1 mistake with turning and you are either dead, or out of combat for longer time.

4. Collisions with other ships or game objects (stones, land) its usually death of the ship (we need to think through a gameplay way to get off your ship from land or shoals and from collisions from other ships) 

5. Land does not have any influence currently. We have made a nice demo map similar to venice harbor with lots of paths and islands. Players are still trying to fight in the areas that have space for turning and maneuver.Because wind mistakes lead to sudden death.

 

what are your thoughts on wind and all this.

1. That's inherent to any sailing combat. A ship is faster when sailing downwind, and speed is needed for quick maneuvers. A jibe will naturally put a ship more downwind than a tack would put it upwind. As bearing arcs or protecting a side quickly is very important, players will more often rely on jibing tactics than tacking. The only case when a combat could overall not go downwind, would be if both sides actively try to get the wind, either as a pre-combat positioning tactic, or as an in-combat mainly used tactic. The latter could happen more often in 1v1, but the bigger the fleet (numbers and sizes) the more difficult it is to execute tacks. A situation where 2 lines would fight for a long time sailing upwind (or at beam reach) at the same speed would be rare, because most of the time the windward line or the fastest line would  try to use their advantage.

 

2. Tacking should be a valid tactic (to increase the number of interesting situations), but an unforgiving one if badly timed or performed (without enough speed for example). Agile small ships should tack almost as quick as they could jibe, but ships of the line (SoL) should require knowledge of the sailing caracteristics, anticipation and an appropriate situation.

 

3. In a line vs line battle (i.e. bearing more arcs than the opponents and protecting the damaged ships), slow turns and using speed would be the basic in-fight "maneuvers". Bigger turns could be used to quickly change the distance (for fire accuracy optimization), to disengage, to re-position, to engage a "break the line" or a "cross the T" approach. Turns would be performed "in line" (one after the other) or "as one" (all at the same time), by the whole line or only parts of it. Badly thought or badly performed maneuvers (i.e. mistakes) should lead to bad consequences.

 

In a 1 vs 1 battle, SoL vs SoL would be like a slower sloop vs sloop with more fire rate. Thus the fight is more about gun management than maneuvering, but there is more time to think about maneuvers. PotBS had a good adage: "scout: easy to learn, hard to master - warship: hard to learn, easy to master".

 

4. What about a flooding system ? The hull could be more or less scratched, leading to more or less water inlet flow, leading to more or less sailing caracteristics decrease, eventually leading to a sink. This way, draft would be important to sail around reefs.  Pumps could counter the water flow up to a point.

 

Ships shouldn't be able to survive sailing directly into a coast or a shoal. Collisions should scratch the hull (send the carpenters), and entangle the rigging (send men with axes, or grappling irons).

 

5. Coast or islands bring novelty. Land shouldn't disable space for turning, but should shape the battles to enable more interesting tactics. Open sea battles sometimes become boring especially in a fleet vs fleet situation. All PotBS port battle maps included land, but some of them also had large open areas. Land diversity is the key.

 

 

Ships didn't tack in battle. It took too long, required too many crew aloft and for fleets was almost impossible for them to remain in formation due to the different tacking quallities of different ships and the different skills of captains and crews. I mentioned before that in battle almost no-one is in the rigging changing sails. A sail ship did not have enough crew for this. When the enemy was close all hands were on deck (that's what it literally means) manning guns, pumps and acting as marines. Ships were not sailed in battle, they were fought, please get an understanding of this.

I think players should be able to send crew aloft and change the sails areas during fights, for gameplay purposes.

 


Once you are downwind of the enemy you cannot win. That should really be true in 90% of cases, so battles are all about manouver beforehand. A skilled captain upwind can dictate the range at which action opens and he can dictate if a battle happens at all. If he's got a weaker/smaller ship then obviously he's going to sail away and refuse to fight. If the smaller/weaker/faster ship is downwind, ditto. The ship that is downwind cannot beat up to the opponent with the weather gauge to force a battle unless the upwind ship lets it do so and then it should really pound the poop out of it as it slowly approaches.

A faster fleet could choose to disengage, but a leeward fleet should be able to fight with reasonable chances, or too much time would be spent fleeing/chasing and sailing on the 2D map.
 

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I think players should be able to send crew aloft and change the sails areas during fights, for gameplay purposes.

 

A faster fleet could choose to disengage, but a leeward fleet should be able to fight with reasonable chances, or too much time would be spent fleeing/chasing and sailing on the 2D map.

 

1) Yes, sure, they can choose to, but it would mean taking men off the guns.

 

2) In writing this I meant that the side with the wind gauge dictates if there is a battle or not, and if they bring on a battle they clearly would be expecting to win it, ergo, more/better/bigger ships or more skilled players. A side that expected to lose and had the weather gauge would be pretty stupid to let themselves be drawn into a battle.

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True, combat was the most appealing part of PotBS, but its engine was not good. Too arcadish. Apart from the magic and spells (which are luckily not  incorporated in Naval Action).

It never gave me the realistic feel (even though true realism is not possible). Even the engine of East India Company (Paradox) was better.

 

The thing is, the game should combine certain factors and simplify them in such a way one player can deal with it. There is no other option. Its not flight simulator (which also always remains just a simulator). On a warship with sails there are so many factors, you simply can not handle them all in a simulator dashboard (and you also got to do the fighting). So you need to automate them to a certain extend. Maybe in such a way you can influence the settings (such as the number of crew you assign to do certain tasks). Most important is that you get the right feel of simulation. An order to raise or lower sails would take some time to be executed. It could cost you precious time, make you miss opportunities or mess up a formation. Just like changing course or the changing of speed. A large ship should feel really sluggish and a nimble fast ship should give you the feel you are on the edge of capsizing your ship when seeking the ultimate limits. A simulation in the Age of Sail should not be too fast paced, actually it should be much slower than you really want it to happen. Just like the reloading of your guns. Actually it should be that slow that you really have to be careful if and when to perform the action. If someone decides to fire his broadside he should know his opponent has enough time to strike back before your guns are loaded again. Or if you strike at the right precious moment, you could prevent the other from doing such thing. The same goes for handling the wind. (I would love to see ships almost come to a stand still when going through the wind. A ship should really loose all its momentum then.)

Wind should not be forgiving. Its both your enemy or your friend. Wind is the most important role in this game, otherwise we could as well add another 100 years to it and go for steamed ironclads or even dreadnoughts. :-)

 

I think it would be wise for the devs to go and play games like Virtual Skipper (if they haven't already) . Just to get the feel.

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I would like to reiterate and re-emphasize Verhoeven"s statement that the game should not be too fast paced. The time it takes to re-load guns for instance is some of the most hair raising moments in a battle, losing the wind during close quarter maneuvering can make you feel so helpless as you see a broadside approaching. To endure these situations adds so much to the experience, these are special moments that are very unique to age of sail battles, and makes it one of the top gaming experiences I have ever had in gaming.

Regards,

Gibson

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I'm really in line with Digby on this. When they called 'all hands' it really meant 'all hands'. Tacking was never done lightly in a fight. A smaller ship or a crack crew could do it, but the guns would be under-served while you carried out the maneuver.

 

So, your problems, one by one:

 

1. In 90% of cases battle goes in one direction (direction of wind). If we have a wind to the north, fighting fleets most likely move into the direction of wind not using the whole map at all.

 

-- Use open-ended maps. If you want a map with lots of land, or with an objective on-shore, then leaving the map should result in failure for the retreating party.

 

2. With a semi-realistic tacking (turning through the wind) it takes time and after trying it once players usually stop doing that and move into the direction of the wind (returning to the problem 1)

 

-- It should be very clear (as in represented in the UI) what's going to happen if they attempt to tack, including a chance of failure. Also, the tutorial should be comprehensive on this issue. It is a high-risk tactic, and these ships don't have motors. That has to be made very, very clear.

 

3. Maneuver with a realistic wind and semi-realistic turning us rarely used on medium or heavy ships, because 1 mistake with turning and you are either dead, or out of combat for longer time.

 

-- I'm afraid that I love this aspect. I know that it's not quite the thing for a game, where we should all be having lots of fun. Learning not to die from this kind of error is 'fun' for me. And, while I'm sure it'll result in my death more than once, I'm happy with that.

 

4. Collisions with other ships or game objects (stones, land) its usually death of the ship (we need to think through a gameplay way to get off your ship from land or shoals and from collisions from other ships) 

 

-- Well, when you collided with other ships in battle, the crew usually hacked away at the entangling lines, masts, etc... Or maybe you took advantage of this and boarded. I'd actually just give both ships horrible, catastrophic damage to discourage it as much as possible. There could be a stat called 'ship's stores' which is a numeric representation of replacement lines, spars, and sails, and is very expensive to replenish. If you ram an opponent, you're both going to pay for it, the bigger the better.

 

Of course, there's the question of determining if a ram takes place just out of spite, but maybe there could be some incentive to a surrender. Especially a surrender that can't be refused. POTBS has a problem with surrenders because while you can give your enemy cargo, they're usually after Marks. If the surrender allowed Marks, then they'd be accepted far more often. Naturally, there are abuses there that need working out, but the concept of surrendering should be a more attractive to the loser than ramming out of spite.

 

As for getting stuck on shoals, etc, well, yes: this sucks. Make it very clear just how much leeway a ship is taking and what your current course is getting you into. If you do strike, take a crapton of damage, and, if you don't sink, then let yourself be heaved off, very very slowly. This was usually done with anchors rowed out attached to the capstan. You hoped that the anchor found enough purchase to grab hold and that the tide wasn't slacking. Again, I think this is an area where I'm going to be far less forgiving than the game needs to be, alas. I really like this aspect.

 

5. Land does not have any influence currently. We have made a nice demo map similar to venice harbor with lots of paths and islands. Players are still trying to fight in the areas that have space for turning and maneuver.Because wind mistakes lead to sudden death.

 

-- Well, yeah, I mean you didn't find many frigates dueling close to shore. They'd use it if there was an advantage, but the risks were huge. If you want close-in duels, you want those to be in very small ships. If you're looking for an excuse to have 'terrain', well, I'm sorry to say there aren't many ways to do that in a sailing game. Sailors used it when it was available, but it was usually life-or-death with no real chance for middle ground.

 

I'd restrict 'land fights' to missions where the objective is landing or escaping. These are probably going to be rare.

 

--Adair

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3. Maneuver with a realistic wind and semi-realistic turning us rarely used on medium or heavy ships, because 1 mistake with turning and you are either dead, or out of combat for longer time.

 

-- I'm afraid that I love this aspect. I know that it's not quite the thing for a game, where we should all be having lots of fun. Learning not to die from this kind of error is 'fun' for me. And, while I'm sure it'll result in my death more than once, I'm happy with that.

 

 

 

I agree.

Even from a gamers perspective. Actually over the last years there has been an absolute trend in gaming that being hit is end of game. You will see it in FPS shooters, and if it is not in the game very popular mods will quickly be made with more realistic damage models. The motto is: "don't get shot". Dying in most cases is not good for the team and the chances for victory. The risk of being out of the game quickly (just as friendly fire will kill your teammate) is a game changer. It will filter out the fools. Now, I don't think one broadside would be an instant killer. But a crucial mistake against a skilled or even average player should highly decrease any chances of victory, or of getting away with it. (In real life even the best flying aces could be killed by a rookie pilot. It actually often happened).

 

I love to play games like Mount & Blad Napoleonic. They have great line battles (100 vs 100). Imagine standing in the ranks exposed just waiting for orders, and than a bullit just kills you and not the guy next to you. And you're out of the round. On the other hand charging the opposite line alone is totally useless and suicidal. That is simulation! (actually in Line battle events, lone wolfing is forbidden as it tends to be a game breaker if everybody does it).

 

Same goes for faster games like Word of Warplanes. If you make a mistake, it takes a few seconds and you're out. In that game I remember being the last plane alive against 4 other opponents though. I had height and a fast climbing 109. So I used the zoom & boom tactic. They kept chasing me as I climbed and everytime they stalled, it was time for me to dive on them, I could pick them off one by one, while my dead teammates were cheering in chat. So basically I could use the game physics of height and gravity, and a plane that was suited for that job. If I had opted for a game of turning I would have been killed quickly.

 

So I think it is not a game breaker, it's a game maker.

 

S!

Verhoeven

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I support both the above posts. A game can also be a great educational tool, making modern gamers realise how sailing ships manouvered and were fought. A lot of us have only films to watch and these are rarely realistic. A game that punishes mistakes and has a steep learning curve in its tactics and sailing model will also be extremely rewarding for a player who learns the system and can become a good sailor. There's a big ego boost in just sailing a ship well and being able to efficiently deal with problems that arise like a sudden wind veer or gust, or getting off a lee shore.

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Your descriptions sound like sailing a PotBS first rate :) I'm fine with some movie feeling as long as we don't have to spend most of the time looking at the scenery once a ship is in range of fire.

 

I also like the feeling of everything being anticipated, thought out, waiting for the real events to happen - which fits well with SoL fleets battles. However, a frigate vs frigate fight should be more about reflexes than thought: once a player has learned to recognize the possible situations, he should have to concentrate on a succession of the best tactical choices.

 

 

 

Speaking about surrenders, being able to tow a captured ship to bring it back to a port would be a great addition.

 

Speaking about seabeds, maybe there could be an indicator showing the risks of shoals or reefs. Knowing the coast would give a more precise approximation.

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Your descriptions sound like sailing a PotBS first rate :) I'm fine with some movie feeling as long as we don't have to spend most of the time looking at the scenery once a ship is in range of fire.

 

I also like the feeling of everything being anticipated, thought out, waiting for the real events to happen - which fits well with SoL fleets battles. However, a frigate vs frigate fight should be more about reflexes than thought: once a player has learned to recognize the possible situations, he should have to concentrate on a succession of the best tactical choices.

 

 

 

S!

 

I agree that a frigate master is more impulsive and should make quicker/faster decisions. I would not name it a reflex though. :-). When a captain acts on reflexes he would also be ultimate prey, and predictable. :-)  I love to compare the frigate as a predator. It does not have the stamina for long lasting battles, but don't give it opportunities or it catch you and will finish you off. (the Japanese underestimated the danger of destroyers and frigates many times in WW2). Also when the prey is not weak enough or too strong, it can avoid the action and fight another day.

 

Still a frigate is a big ship. And as his ship is more manouvrable a frigate man should be able to make fast decisions, or his opponent will do it. It's more like quick chess. But the pace should still be much slower than you actually want it to be. Imagine how sluggish a 1st rate would be. That is not a problem as a 1st rate would rarely fight a 1 vs 1 battle. It would have its spot in the line, or have a frigate to cover its flanks.

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It's true, first rates didn't ever really duel. It was absolute suicide for anything other than another lineship to start exchanging fire with one. First rates did escort duty, blockading, and battling in the line. Consider that the only encounters where a frigate 'beat' a lineship were in incidents where the frigate either forced the lineship into an unfavorable position and it disengaged, or the frigate led them off from the lineship's real objective.

 

In O'Brian's HMS SURPRISE, Aubrey's frigate engages a French 74 to delay it long enough for the half dozen Indiamen he was escorting to begin an encircling maneuver. The 74 disengaged, having lost its decisive position and was in danger of being mauled (even if not necessarily sunk). Note that Surprise was brutally damaged in this action, and Aubrey could only attempt it because of the heavy seas. The lineship couldn't open its lowermost ports. In fact, at one point, the lineship wears along with Aubrey and very nearly gets it's 36's to bear. If it had, Surprise would've been sunk.

 

In MASTER AND COMMANDER, Aubrey in HMS Sophie is pursued by a French squadron of a corvette, two frigates, and a lineship. Aubrey has the weather gage at the beginning of the engagement, but he can't run without risking their line. He uses every caper in his book to bring the lineship out of position and fool the enemy as to his own sailing qualities. At the last minute, he puts Sophie before the wind, runs the line (still gets shot at) and gets through. However, one of the frigates was brand new, a damn fine sailor, and Sophie was captured after a long chase. Still, it was a fantastic example of the kind of gameplay and scenarios Naval Action could feature.

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S! Adair.

 

Another great (true) story of a small vessel fighting a much larger vessel is ofcourse Cochranes Speedy (a 14 gun Brig with only a crew of 50) against the Spanish frigate Gamo (with more than 300 men). Cochrane used a cunning list (using a false flag and raising the British flag at the very last moment) to gain precioius time to position himself. He evaded several broadsides and eventually came that close that the Spaniards guns could not aim that low. Cochrane than repulsed several Spanish boarding attempts before sending his entire crew to capture the enemy ship. 

 

Cochrane eventually become too overconfident and made a huge mistake when he tought to see 3 Spanish Gallions on the horizon. They appeared to be three French ships of the line. After a chase of 3 hours. When he concluded he could not outrun them, he actually tried to outmanouevre them. Thus bringing his ship even closer to the enemies. At last with his mast and rigging heavily damaged he struck the colours and surrendered. Still it remains a accomplishement with no equal that he and the Speedy managed to survive that chase.

 

I really love Thomas Cochrane!

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Cochrane's exploits are the basis for several Age of Sail characters, in fact, the two best known being Horatio Hornblower and Jack Aubrey. :)

 

The Speedy vs the Gamo was the final culmination in the first O'Brian book MASTER AND COMMANDER when Aubrey's sloop HMS Sophie took the Spanish frigate Cacafuego, similarly outgunned and undermanned. It's a very fun read!

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Still a frigate is a big ship. And as his ship is more manouvrable a frigate man should be able to make fast decisions, or his opponent will do it. It's more like quick chess. But the pace should still be much slower than you actually want it to be. Imagine how sluggish a 1st rate would be. That is not a problem as a 1st rate would rarely fight a 1 vs 1 battle. It would have its spot in the line, or have a frigate to cover its flanks.

 

After a few months of gaming, a player should know all the possible combinations of a frigate vs frigate chess game, and just link the maneuvers that would give him the upper hand (mistakes or luck sometimes changing the best tactic).

 

A frigate fleet vs frigate fleet battle would offer a lot more possible combinations.

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Here is a battle illustrating the effects that land and wind can have on SoL vs SoL tactics. Wind is from E, the player fleet is attacking a port but can't land troops yet , fleets are mostly composed of 4th rates. The player fleet manage to get a better fighting position at the start (until 0:20). Then land is shaping the battle. And from 7:50, we can see the effect of wind and some possible fleet fighting maneuvers.

 

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Three reactions to that:

 

1) Terrible, terrible game interface, its so crowded I can't see a thing!

2) Dreadful choice of music. WTF? I switched off after 10 seconds.

3) Clicking between window and full screen on YouTube briefly brings up a view of a naked female. You need to watch what kinds of links you give.

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I did not like the game. The interface however could be fully customized. The guy who used this set up was probably intoxicated by the music he was playing. I always used a minum of information.

The little thumbs you see on the left and bottom left are all the magic spells that came with that game. You could pin them on your screen. Still, a customizable screen interface would be great for Naval action.

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Three reactions to that:

 

1) Terrible, terrible game interface, its so crowded I can't see a thing!

2) Dreadful choice of music. WTF? I switched off after 10 seconds.

3) Clicking between window and full screen on YouTube briefly brings up a view of a naked female. You need to watch what kinds of links you give.

 

That was more about the minimap maneuvers than the rest of the image(s?).

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Slipknot is not that bad. Naked females are ok too. Only the guy that did that video is a dickhead.

 

I don't really want a sailing simulator, i don't care for magic skills. All i want is a game in the age of sail that is fun to play and a worthy substitution of potbs, which is imho the best mmo in the age of sail atm.

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That was more about the minimap maneuvers than the rest of the image(s?).

I couldn't even see the minimap, or concentrate on it with all that distraction.

 

Music? What music? I just heard about 20 bulls being slaughtered.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found this: http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol13/tnm_13_4_29-39.pdf

 

It seems most of the warships had terrible close-hauled angle (67° or more). As fleets had the close-hauled angle of the worse one, they rarely managed to gain winward progress by sailing into the wind only. They usually relied on wind changes or currents. Also tacking required skilled crew, calm sea and good breeze. Otherwise it was preferable to wear (jibe), because a failed tack would put a ship more leeward.

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