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JCDC

Misson profit

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JCDC    415

I think the changes to mission earnings are madness. you have increased gold earnings by about 3x what they used to be. i think the effects of this increase in gold is going to be​ very bad for the game. by making missions so much more profitable this will encourage people to do only missions.

 

Before this change, all of these methods of making money were good, you could make money the way you wanted. Now, missions will be the most profitable in most cases. You have built this amazing open world multiplayer world where you can earn money so many ways, trading, fighting AI fleets, missions, PvP, port battles, Assaults, small battles, raiding trade etc. but now you are financially encouraging people to just sit in their home port areas, grinding battles that are mostly 1 v 1AI. that is going to reduce the level of PvP and trading hugely. I cant possibly make as much money trading as I can grinding missions now, I am sure it will be the same for many other players.

 

I know you are under a lot of pressure from people on these forums to make it easier to earn money but people are lazy, so now I think many many more will just grind missions all night long and this multiplayer experience will be wasted. they ask for what they want but they wont consider the effect on the game. now I think it will just be thousands of people fighting their own individual battles no where near enemy nations. how is this a MMORPG?

 

This is a HUGE mistake.

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ajffighter86    497

Prepare for massive inflation.

 

I'm already selling crafting notes for twice what I got for them last week. Now, this change . . .

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ buahahahaha

 

I'll be giving out free gold and rum to everyone in Mortimer Town next week, like some sort of Jolly (Roger) Saint Nicholas. Gonna have pirates walking around with pimp hats and walking canes.

 

EDIT: and I'm on PVP US, where crafting notes are cheaper overall—last week they said crafting notes were going for 40K on the heavily populated EU server.

 

My God. What have we done to those poor fools?

Edited by ajffighter86

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Primus    42

I was just to write a post similar to this when i saw your post.

 

I understand the idea about increasing the xp on missions, however the rewards are now ridiculous.  The idea about an econ is to tweak things. There is a certain amount of fun with the challenge of grinding money and xp. However with econ you need to moderate the changes, and not make sweeping changes like this to the econ. All the econ needed waas a few tweaks to be manageable and fun. the changes now have basically destroyed any aspect of the market system you were trying to create. all this patch does allow inflation to spiral and destroy the markets further. 

 

When you tweak things like repair kits, you then nerf the cost, making them cost more, as was done with iron. My advice to the devs is to tweak not make significant adjustments as they made now.

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Yeah this has got to be reverted. It's a joke. I can make almost 150k and hour just doing missions. With damage im getting around 22k-25k per mission. Why do anything else? They just killed travelling, trading and pirating.

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Kurshuk    1

Agreed and I'm one of those saying gold earnings in the early game need improvement. I was thinking like a per mission bonus for the first X missions. It's like this change is trying to address the complaints of grind and new user experience, but the segment it benefits the most is the one that doesn't need a destabilizing volume of currency pumping into the economy.

 

I'm glad the dev is willing to try ideas. I think the current change needs to be rolled back to prevent hyperinflation of existing market.

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ajffighter86    497

Agreed and I'm one of those saying gold earnings in the early game need improvement. I was thinking like a per mission bonus for the first X missions. It's like this change is trying to address the complaints of grind and new user experience, but the segment it benefits the most is the one that doesn't need a destabilizing volume of currency pumping into the economy.

 

I'm glad the dev is willing to try ideas. I think the current change needs to be rolled back to prevent hyperinflation of existing market.

 

The early game definitely needed improvement, I agree. This change was unnecessary. The same outcome could have been achieved by slashing the rank-up requirements for the first few ranks by half, maybe even quarters. That way, 250 XP (maybe 3 or 4 ensign-rank missions) at least gets you out of the free-cutter and into something more fun. (although some strange people tell me that cutters are indeed fun :wacko: )

 

The brig/snow/navy brig/mercury class is actually quite fun. If not for my Niagara that I got for preordering, I'd still be sailing those ships as a matter of preference. Well, that and the fact that no one is using crafting notes to build quality low-rate ships because of the crafting note crisis, it's all going towards building exceptional frigates.

 

I believe the devs will sort this out eventually. It took over a year to get the sailing/combat aspect of the game up to a satisfactory condition. The economy side of the game is still largely unfamiliar territory.

Edited by ajffighter86

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JCDC    415

Yeah, i get that they are experimenting and getting whinges from all quarters must be very hard to deal with, but changes need to be small, not totally destabilising like this. i just think this undercuts the whole game. too much money is bad.

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Francech    15

i think trading is still more profitable. And remember inflation only means that everything will be more expensive. Especially the crafted stuff. Don't see that huge drama there. It's actually a good thing to give casual players something to work with. Probably what needs to be changed is the mission location, to encourage more pvp.

Edited by Francech

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Tremor    16

inflation will fix it.

for free.

 

the only problem could occur if they turn it back.

than n00bs will have high prices caused by the inflation.

 

So just keep it.

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JCDC    415

Inflation isn't my main worry, its the removal of incentive to take part in the PvP action that this game should centre on. its just not nearly as profitable anymore.

 

Inflation will not in any way fix that problem even if it does fix the trading profit. and yes I have seen price inflation in port royal. many resources are more expensive even though the amount of those resources has been increased.

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Quineloe    1,135

The main reason I did not pvp so far is that I don't feel like sailing for two hours to enemy territory and then get gonked by 5 to 10 players on my own.

Not because I can make more gold in missions.

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ajffighter86    497

Reposting this once, here from another thread. We need to be teaching new guys about how to use the contract system, and how boarding ships makes them money. Or, at least, it did before the recent patch made it more profitable to just grind missions all day long.

 

I still fail to see why people had such a hard time coming up with money, forcing the developers to offer ludicrous payouts on these missions.

 

Board a ship or two.

 

The first AI trade ship I ever boarded had about 30 compass wood and other assorted crap. I sold it directly to the shop in port at the minimum price for something like 236 x 30 ~ 7,000 gold. Sold the ship for another 3,000. That's $10,000 in a battle that took <15 minutes, and that was before I knew anything about contracts.

 

The minimum buy price on compass wood, even when the port selling it is overloaded, is 500. If I had known better, I could have put it in a contract for 400/per compass wood and it would have sold before I even left the port I put the contract up in.

 

400x30=12,000, plus ~ 3,000 for the trade ship that was carrying it. $15,000 minus a few dollars for the contract fee. That's damn good money for someone at the midshipman/ensign level. I understand that compass wood is a random loot drop and not everyone will be so lucky on their first boarding attempt. But traders are easy to board, and the AI has a ton of them sailing around. If you're lucky enough to find a player on a trade ship and board it, 9/10 times, they WILL be hauling valuable cargo, and they WILL be fully loaded.

 

The problem is that no one really understands how to make money in this game using the contract system. There's no tutorial in the game, you have to go on youtube and I don't know that there are a whole lot of video tutorials out there on the contract system (if someone knows how to make one I'm sure it would get plenty of hits). The system can be overwhelming for new players to learn, but the system is not broken. There was no need to increase mission payouts. So unless you pull someone aside and show them how to work their way around the market, they'll keep thinking that sinking ships makes them money. (which they're right, it does, which is kind of silly when it should be the cargo that makes money; I have never been a fan of the gold-for-damage model as it encourages players to sink ships rather than attempt to board them)

 

EDIT: Hell, a Rascal rank (2nd rank) last night on pirate chat in PVP US announced that he captured a higher ranked player's trade ship carrying 280 compass wood. Feel bad for that guy.

 

Ya heard me? 280 compass wood from boarding a ship instead of sinking it

 

Let's do the math on that, shall we?:

 

280 x 236 (if you don't sell through contract, I think that's the minimum sell price)

 

~ $66,000

Unfortunately, like myself, he didn't know about contracts either, the first time he tried to sell something he stole. If he had, this is what he could have potentially gotten for his prize:

 

280 x 400 gold per compass wood = $112,000 . That's the kind of #%)* that makes you feel like a pirate, lol.

 

But, no, what we've done instead, is make missions pay 15,000 gold for just sinking a ship, so people just grind and grind and grind until they have $500,000 and money is worthless in the game.

Edited by ajffighter86

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ajffighter86    497

Reposting this once, here from another thread. We need to be teaching new guys about how to use the contract system, and how boarding ships makes them money. Or, at least, it did before the recent patch made it more profitable to just grind missions all day long.

 

Another instance of a missed opportunity to make good money was when I myself was hauling cargo on a trade brig into La Desconocida just as the Americans were attacking it on PVP US. Awful timing on my part. 

 

I was hauling—you guess it—compass wood. About $20,000 (estimated minimum sell value) worth of compass wood I'd collected from boarding AI traders.

 

I, the pirate, was out-numbered 4-to-1 by USA players, surrounded, and would have been soooo easy to board. But no, even as I told them in "all" chat during the battle that I was hauling valuable cargo, they decided instead to just sink me. :rolleyes:

 

People whining and complaining that money is hard to come by, the developers caved, and yet these same people just keep sending it to the bottom of the ocean, throwing it away.

 

Board, board, board! if you want the money.

 

(of course now you can just do missions instead, so let's just take boarding out of the game.)

Edited by ajffighter86

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Don Alfonso    25

Using the contract system is what ruined the market in the first place - it's a really abusive way to make money.

 

On the topic of boarding however, boarding is still very useful... Capturing ships can earn you multiple things, such as;

Extra Money from selling the ship..

Crafting Materials from breaking down the ship...

Blueprints from breaking down the ship....

Cargo with Crafting Uses (i.e. wood and iron) from capturing traders....

Beasty One-Use Ships, like the masterful privateer I captured.

 

And I'm going to say, money might have been 'easy' to come by for some before this mission patch - but certainly not without quite the grind. People don't want to spend half their time in this game boarding traders... some want to, I don't know... PvP.

 

I certainly didn't find hunting down defenseless traders for 15 minutes as they desperately run from you any fun at all. At least in this way I can make enough money in enough of an easy way to maybe risk getting into battles that I may not win.

 

 

These instances you guys talk about 'omg this guy capped a ship with lots of high value stuff and got 100k gold' are all anecdotal and not commonplace. The size of the world makes it really rare to come across an enemy player, even rarer to come across a trader player and further rarity that they have something of value on board (this thanks to the teleport function).

 

I will also add that 100,000 gold is not that much money... Before the mission patch that would barely pay for a 5th rate, much less a basic 4th rate...

 

Yeah, it took the guy 15 minutes to get that money, but he isn't going to come across that payday again anytime soon.

 

 

If anything, this larger mission reward will actually open people's time up to do other things rather than set up contracts 24/7 or hunt traders 24/7 - maybe people will be more inclined to PvP since they won't lose 5 hours worth of work when they lose (which is what usually happens as most PvPers move in pretty large groups).

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Quineloe    1,135

Compass wood is an exceptionally good drop. Often you will also get garbage loot such as silver, copper, pine, lignum vitae or red wood logs.

Also don't believe for a second that there are any contracts to buy compass wood for that kind of price anywhere. It's exclusively needed for SoL and the players that can make these know better than to burn their money on such an overpriced commodity.

Another issue is that trader raiding doesn't scale. Escorted traders do not drop more or better loot than contraband smugglers. So after a hundred or so traders it gets a little repetitive. I know this because I caught around 120 so far.

Missions are just that much more fun.

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JCDC    415

Yeah ajfighter has massively exaggerated the ease of trade raiding, although his point of people not realising that boarding is more profitable than sinking is true.

 

I have been playing a lot and I have never captured a cargo worth 60,000 although I have done a fair few of 20,000.

 

The simple fact is that you aren't gonna capture a trader with a good cargo every 20 mins, but you can do a mission every 20 mins, so there is no doubt that trade raiding is less profitable than missions but a larger amount now. and yes, we do need the trade fleets to be scaled. there should be traders escorted by frigates with much more valuable cargos or galleons of gold or something. getting a maximum of about 60 wood each time is pretty dumb. why are all trade ships 90% empty?

 

Anyway that's a minor problem of tweaking and balance, not a big deal at this stage. what is a big problem is missions being the stand out way to earn money. want players to have more money? make all combat more profitable. not because that will work, it wont, if you make everyone richer no one gets richer because of inflation. welcome to economics. you CANT make everyone wealthy, its impossible because wealth is relative not absolute. sorry guys, its a competitive system and some of you are gonna be poor. deal with it.

 

The only way to get round this is simply to give cheap ships away on the market for fixed money, thus artificially keeping prices low. this would utterly ruin the player led economy and reduce this to a pretty much combat only game. what a shame that would be for an open world MMORPG game like this.

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ajffighter86    497

Unfortunately, it is clear to me, then, that we may need different servers. I see no other compromise.

 

Half the people here just want to blow stuff up and get paid for it, like some sort of 1980's arcade hall space blaster game where you just try to get the high score and a chance to enter your initials. That's not what the developers had in mind for the game, but, you paid your money as well, so if that's really what you want, then I guess you should be accommodated. [GAME OVER - INSERT COINS]

 

The other half want to play a realistic age of sail game, and have no desire to see the game watered-down into another arcade-style Assassin's Creed Black Flag.

 

These two types of players will never be satisfied playing under the same roof.

Edited by ajffighter86

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ajffighter86    497

Using the contract system is what ruined the market in the first place - it's a really abusive way to make money.

 

On the topic of boarding however, boarding is still very useful... Capturing ships can earn you multiple things, such as;

Extra Money from selling the ship..

Crafting Materials from breaking down the ship...

Blueprints from breaking down the ship....

Cargo with Crafting Uses (i.e. wood and iron) from capturing traders....

Beasty One-Use Ships, like the masterful privateer I captured.

 

And I'm going to say, money might have been 'easy' to come by for some before this mission patch - but certainly not without quite the grind. People don't want to spend half their time in this game boarding traders... some want to, I don't know... PvP.

 

I certainly didn't find hunting down defenseless traders for 15 minutes as they desperately run from you any fun at all. At least in this way I can make enough money in enough of an easy way to maybe risk getting into battles that I may not win.

 

 

These instances you guys talk about 'omg this guy capped a ship with lots of high value stuff and got 100k gold' are all anecdotal and not commonplace. The size of the world makes it really rare to come across an enemy player, even rarer to come across a trader player and further rarity that they have something of value on board (this thanks to the teleport function).

 

I will also add that 100,000 gold is not that much money... Before the mission patch that would barely pay for a 5th rate, much less a basic 4th rate...

 

Yeah, it took the guy 15 minutes to get that money, but he isn't going to come across that payday again anytime soon.

 

 

If anything, this larger mission reward will actually open people's time up to do other things rather than set up contracts 24/7 or hunt traders 24/7 - maybe people will be more inclined to PvP since they won't lose 5 hours worth of work when they lose (which is what usually happens as most PvPers move in pretty large groups).

 

It sounds like you did not set up your attack correctly, if you are having to 'chase down' traders. You do realize that where you start an engagement on the open sea determines your position relative to the enemy when the battle starts, right?

 

So if you see a trader (or any ship, really) sailing with the wind on the open sea, you want to get in front of them and then click 'attack'. All you have to do, is get in front of them, and be as close to them as possible when the countdown timer reaches 0, and you won't have to chase anything, they will come to you (particularly if it is AI, because the AI always sails with the best angle of the wind when trying to escape). A few salvos of chain shot, and they aren't running anywhere. I have yet to have to chase down a trader for ages unless I just utterly screwed up my attack angle (weather gauge) before starting the battle.

 

I think a large part of the problems people are having with the game stem from ignorance of how to play, and there is no need to make concessions with gameplay to appease these people, where it would be more beneficial to teach these people how to play the game as it was designed.

 

You say the contract system ruined the market, as it is an 'abusive' way to make money? As in, you could have made money with it as well, but just didn't want to?

 

Again, I'm afraid we need different servers for people who are expecting something vastly different for this game. I already have Assassin's Creed Black Flag, and there's a reason I play this game instead of that one.

Edited by ajffighter86

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