Rabid_Infidel

Isn't that a sad irony in itself? A naval game WITHOUT a competition in it's niche that barely tops 800 players at weekend peak times! I think this speaks volumes more about the state of the game that i could ever write in my lifetime!

A kickstarter?? For a game that in a year's time added very little in meaningful content that can be summed up in a few words.. Land in PB's, some forts along the coast, fishing and a prey button? For a game that is still balls deep in alpha dev stage with a steep price tag of 37€.. For a game in which most of its patches consists of mainly balancing and mechanics changes.. This thing is nowhere near completion and by the looks of it it will be a long time before it seas the light of day. At this point one might as well call it "abandonware"! Majority who played already left for the greener pastures with only the faithful few remaining, and now there is talk of a "kickstarter"? The roadmap for 2017, more rebalances, cutting off what little content no matter how boring it may be (missions), and actually NO new content. This is a joke!

You are mixing apples and oranges aka single player and multiplayer! Fractured space, World of..., War Thunder, Mechwarrior online, LOL, and Naval Action NEED players and player retention in order to live on. Maybe not stellar or even good but somewhat stable at least. Or you would need bigger influx of players buying into NA then what is leaving NA. But is this possible for a non F2P game? On the other hand your GTAxx, civxx, fallouts, witchers, whatever else singleplayer game does not give a rats ass does player spends 2 hours or 600 hours into their game after it has been bought. One does not care nor depends on how much players are online, while the other is totally dependent on it and if player base drops too low it's light's out. I will give you "Evolve" as a good example of this happening. They reverted to F2P in order to bring new blood to the game as their servers hang so empty months after release that nobody was playing and those few that did could not find a match. Concerning Fractured Space. I bought the game in EA and actually only installed it 2 weeks ago. I played 1 tutorial match and 1 vs AI as you must play 3 before being able to play with players and haven't launched it again. I found it somewhat boring and uninteresting. If what you say about player numbers (in FC) is true then i consider it a failure yes! And it's probably the reason why they went F2P so early. Same goes for Dreadnought. Played about 30 matches, lost interest. By long waiting matchmaking queues i perceive they have same problem (not enough players). However that was not the topic. Conversation was about development speed and not about player rating or the game quality.

Player base numbers are not maybe so important per se, it's the conclusion that i hiding behind that number. Player retention. This rating is showing do players want to play your game. As NA has bad retention and mostly daily player consists of your regular fan base and a few of new guys+random drop in casuals i find this to be a problem. Maybe it's not a big deal now in EA state but if you do not find a more stable formula it will become a death sentence. Reasons being: 1. MMO sandbox game that in order to have fun you are reliant on other players = the more the merrier! 2. Future monetization of the game and your studio. You gotta keep the lights on somehow? We are talking about the future of NA here so i am looking 2 steps ahead. If you think you can keep this game with 500 fiercely loyal players and a few random drop ins then this conversation is kinda pointless. NA not having a bright future would be a hard blow for me personally as i waited the game of this type for half of my adult life. In most cases when i take a dislike to a game i just leave. I dislike being all doom and gloom here but if i see a problem i will try to express it as a fan of this game. You guys made a great achievement with this game already and if somebody asked me now i would say i got my money back threefold by now in playing NA. It's just that these 2 months have been very hard for us players and at least for me personally it seems that you as the dev team lost focus or are confused in what direction you should go. I may be way off the mark and wrong but that is how it's looks from my perspective.

Edge Case has about 25 devs. (http://www.edgecasegames.net/careers/) If i understand correctly you guys have about 10? So no 5 times bigger.. Doesn't really matter. What it does matter is player count. Every game has its lifecycle and if left half baked too long you will lose potential customers. There are already topics on your steam page of people asking is this game worth buying and how populated it is! You can play the early access card only so far.. NA is having abysmal player retention rating. Meaning that most people who bought it already left it never to return again. This is bad. No Man's sky bad! Getting more guys in your dev team would mean more content on a faster pace, which would mean more satisfied player base = more guys playing the game= better game statistics = more new players = more money for you company! After your planned "release", i think you will need to resurrect this game a new. Your big steam EA release has been and gone. What i suggest (after what you think this game is in a released state) you hop on the steam discount/event bandwagon and try to hook new players relying on very positive steam rating that it will attract more new guys on a steady rate after. Also, some advertising the game on whatever media you find most efficient would help as well.

Indeed, those guys from Fractured space and Mechwarrior online are like on crack! Fractured space get's a patch every few days. MWO is putting it out at a fast steady pace as well. Fractured Space went from early alpha pre EA version to release in a year's time and looking good so far! On the other hand you have guys who are making Dreadnought (Greybox) and they are still in closed beta after promising open beta at the first quarter 2016! Reportedly they are working on a major overhaul of the game, being the reason for the massive delay.. However devs spin this NA is having slow development progress. Is this good or bad, do we like/dislike it, everybody will have differing opinion. But while we here are arguing amongst each other NA has hit a new low in player numbers playing. Sure, some of it can be attributed to waiting for new patch but that has been said every time again and again but every time it happens fewer players return to the game! As NA is a sandbox mmo type rather than theme park mmo where a player can count on having his fun in content by himself, fun in NA is very dependent on other players. Low player numbers is the worst thing that can happen to this game. I guess you will always have your die hards who will stay online no matter what but slowly and surely rest will leave, leaving NA a vacant and empty game. So a honest suggesting from a player of NA who has this game success at his hearth i suggest you start asking this questions: 1. What will keep new players to play this game? 2. What will keep veteran and more casual players to play this game? Or? Or keep pandering and tailoring the game to the liking of only one type of players (we all know who they are and what type of game they want this to be) just be aware that this strategy left you with a game that is struggling to keep it's most populated server over 600-700 players at prime times..

I would actually like they gone this route instead of time compression mode+battle instance we have now. When it was debated how they gonna do this time comp+instance was a solution to curb long sailing times. All well and good but we still have very long sailing times as the world is large. So in trying to fix one problem they made two problems, still long sailing and battle instance RoE that everybody has different opinion of. Why not just downsize OW to size that will match sailing time in OW now but now to sailing mode like in battle instance. All problems solved i guess.. No battle timers, no exit timers, no battle result screen waiting, no enemy vanishing up in air if you do not hit it with cannon ball in under 60/120 secs... Many here stated about breaking immersion, well for me everything about this battle instance breaks immersion nor is in any way, shape or form realistic or even maybe needed. We could still have instanced combat for missions as to enable player to have a chance to do it in peace and not spawning large amount of ships in the world that could interfere with other players passing by. Only issue i can see in this proposition is that it will be harder for smaller nations to survive as they would not be able to compartmentalize and break big fleets into few smaller easily manageable ones getting ROFLstomped in the process by nation with larger player base. But then again i can see a rough time coming to lesser nations as the next conquest patch will make it harder for them to take ports as they need to create conditions for capture. No more false flagging and keep enemy guessing where the attack will land..

If you wish to refute something i stated about sandbox and how it is connected to Naval Action battle timer then please feel free to do so. Playing a vague smartass will not get you nowhere (except in the kindergarten, that tactics is still valid there) As for your situation about ppl being mugged and nobody caring... I'm happy that does not happen in my country and i sure would not want to live in a country where people think this acceptable or normal. No wonder you are so thick with this smug attitude living there.

Probably better than you. What "sandbox" type game has with battle timers mind telling me? EVE is sandbox, yet no timers or battle instances at all? Or will you now claim that Eve is not sandbox? Sandbox is a broad term that does not imply specific game mechanics but game FEATURES! It pretty much implies that there are no linear level designs and players are free to explore the world at their own pace or liking. In some games you can build and effect the world (minecraft, RUST), in other you can travel where you wish without game forced boundaries (like EvE or NA). Many have crafting elements in place as well. Battle instance and timers involved are unique to Naval Action and are not a part or definition of "sandbox".

Kudos to them for sure! But what they did they did not with superior skill or with effort. Stupid game mechanics allowed them to come into heavily populated home waters and gank a player with 100% chance of success! And FUN? Where was the fun in that? I surrendered the moment the battle started as i had no chance of winning or getting help and thought better to save myself half an hour of pain. Cut my losses and went to other activities. I had no fun. I doubt they had either. There was no glory to be had, no fun fight to be enjoyed that one could tell about somebody afterwards.. Literally nothing. As for lost Vic, i did not care as i have plenty more, and i doubt they cared as they probably have plenty themselves.. Add a min or 2 to the timers, maybe somebody would join in and now i would get a fight out of it and they as well... Works for everybody. That is PvP... Ganking is NOT. Let's make a IRL comparison: Let's say you are coming home late in the evening in the dark street and get mugged! All are sleeping, nobody in sight, nobody to help you... Pretty common right? You cut your losses and carry on aware that it was a situation you could no do nothing about. (you would now say: Walk with friends right?) Now let's make another scenario: You are passing a police station at noon. It's a pretty relaxed day. Then somebody starts beating you with a baseball club with police officers watching from the station entrance. Just standing there meters away. Would you feel awkward and stupefied later in the hospital? Well welcome to Naval action! This scenario is exactly how this 2 min timer works in this game and how majority feel about it.

So we had a "scale" and now we're back to "poor decisions" and well, mind reading me. You "know" i will not be happy even with an hour open battles... For fuck sake will you get off that self appointed throne you build for yourself.. Some modesty will not hurt in your case. About your "poor decisions". Did i make one when i tried to relocate my Vic from KPR to Carlisle and got ganked right in front of it with no chance to get help even from guys in my sight? Fuck a Vic, i have 4 more but a game mechanics that allows 100% no risk ganks in the square middle of heavily populated nation waters is BAD! Bottom line is we will never see eye to eye as our vision of the game is vastly different. No arguments you make will not change my mind as i find this game in this state not worth playing and i guess adding a min or 2 to timers it seems would break this game for you. We are different players liking different stuff. You happen to hold opinions shared by a small fraction of players playing this game. Truth is, RoE will be changed in some way or another but if it still stays "gankers paradise" guys like me leave, and guys like you will follow suit right after as the game will dwindle and die as it can't survive without a fresh blood.

Whatever you smoking is very potent as i have not stated ANY of things you mentioned! Never have i stated that i DON'T WANT/WANT play with other players... What i DID state that i do not want to be forced through tiresome process of finding other players for EVERY ACTION i plan to take in this game! Please do not attempt to strawman me another time. As for your 3rd point you accuse me off it's it seems to me more of your own mindset as you seem to be deeply offended/protective about a change to this game you consider helpful to your game style. All we have proposed is adding a few mins (1-2-3) to battle timer and with it adding a chance of a ganked victim of getting some help. Help that would be only available in waters populated by friendly ships anyway. What that means to you is your ganks in front of enemy towns would be a bit more risky, yea we can't have that!

Funny how you mention "sliding scale" yet you do not believe your own words. Yes it should be a sliding scale but ATM it is NOT! Now, it's either sail with a fleet or face annihilation if spotted. No "scale" in this scenario. The scale is ALL DOWN on gankers side! But if we added 1-2-3 mins to timer then IT BEGINS to be a sliding scale as now you have a chance of a nearby friendly ship to assist you but not a whole nation to join your side! And tell me who mentioned "safety"?? NOBODY! But many others mentioned, a chance!

You really believe in that BS? Let me break it to you, if for any single action you take in this game you must go through a process of assembling a fleet of other players then it STOPS being a game and begins to be a CHORE! Plenty of times there are calls for mission runs in chat that last for half an hour or more for only a few players to assemble and go. It's maybe hard to believe it to you but most do not live in Naval Action nor have the time finding a fleet for everything they want/plan to do in the game. Not to mention how hypocritical you are. You are unwilling to budge on this issue even for 1 minute yet are happily proposing other players moving through a long, boring and time consuming process...

Okey, time to add one more worthless opinion... Every time i leave a port i do it with a knowledge i may not return with my ship into it again. As i play on PvP server i have no problem with this. I am rear admiral rank, lvl 50 crafter with full warehouse full of resources and craft materials. What ever loss i take on OW i can compensate it fast and easy. I have whole array of ships in my outpost that are tailored for every mission you can think of. Scouting, PB's, missioning, random Pvping, hunting, etc.. When i go missioning i usually go alone but i choose my mission and only take those that are very close to harbor and often take them from couple of ports and then proceed to do the one that is the safest and closest. I watch the nation chat for reports of enemy activity and plan accordingly. Before starting a mission i turn my ship in the direction of the port i plan to return to as to not lose time in order to turn my ship after it. At mission end (in battle report screen) i take a minute to scroll through chat in order to find out if there are any gankers/raiders reported. When taking a trade run i take the ship most appropriate to the run's role. I do not use fleets as i do not find them useful. I play it safe and generally i stay safe. With all that said, i believe we have an issue regarding RoE in this game and i think it plays a major part in bad player retention this game suffers from. i can not provide any numbers but from my experience playing NA for this 2 years (pre steam sea trials to now) i will put a player retention at about 15%. That means from all the player who bought/tried NA only about 15% is still somewhat active. This may be normal for early access title but one has to wonder how many players have left with a bad taste in their mouth never to return again.. Some of you will maybe dismiss this out of hand claiming that these players were bad, carebears, whiners, entitled children, (and i saw many a time those words used from the users who use this forum on daily basis) but consider this as players are the MEAT of this game. Players are those who give you content and a reason to play! Without players who will participate in Pb's, huntings, trading and who will you gank in OW? Low player count will hit hard core PvPiers the hardest as PvP implies PLAYERS! So i believe WE MUST HAVE COMPROMISE! PvP or not this game should be a bit more "player friendly" and those of you that i see every time commenting on EVERY single forum post berating other players who do not share exact vision of what this game should be would benefit from a bit of compassion towards your fellow humans. Not everybody plays this game for the same reasons nor enjoys the same things you do or has the same conditions. I understand that there are about 50 of you hard core pvpers very active on this forums who jump on every thread that in your opinion endangers your PvP heaven, be it timers, fleets, sociable perk or perks all together... 2 min timers are a joke, people DO NOT LIKE IT. Sociable perk is still mentioned in chat and most thought it was a good edition making for more PvP and better Pvp! 30 mins was dumb and over the top. However most will agree that timers would do a good job if they were 3-4-5 minutes long. Personally i would kill timers all together but that would probably brake balance as the nations with numbers supremacy would be able to rule the OW. Often i am at sea in my home waters sailing or patroling and seeing a distress signal in chat that somebody is being ganked but i am unable to be of help as i am aware that by the time i get there the battle will be closed even if i am very close by. Even if i am in a position to help i will do it reluctantly as i know that i will (and the ganked victim) will ​be facing a superior enemy and i am entering a losing battle. From any standpoint (military, fun, economic,ego) surely it's better to lose 1 ship then 2. Sociable for me brought a whiff of fresh air into the game making the PvP more readily, exciting and fun. Fighting a battle not knowing what will happen during its course was a blast! Will enemy get more ppl in, will i get more reinforcement? Bringing it back to 2 mins made me not wanting to play this game AT ALL! You ppl say use escorts or patrols...Yeah well, gankers use speed rigged ships and are generally very skilled in running away only attacking if they have a superiority. Those stories of "honest gankers" who sail around looking for honest combat are BS and you all know it. I saw it happen sometimes but for every "honest" one there are ​50 cowardly ganks. For all that is wrong with this game, catering to only one play style (ganking) is surely the worst offender. If a working compromise is not found none of us will be playing NA in the future. With all this potential and a beautiful game in the making it would be a sad, sad affair.