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Malachi

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Malachi last won the day on November 18 2015

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  1. Here´s the first step of my 3D Hull modelling tutorial, the plan selection. In this thread, participants of the community build can choose the ship we´re going to use for the tutorial. Why a community/group build? Well, I wanted to do a hull modelling tutorial for a long time but I just don´t like the concept of a 'one-way' tutorial, I want to learn something, too, after all. The basic idea is that I show my approach to certain aspects of ship modelling (making the frames, applying thickness to the hull shape, modelling head rails etc) and then the participants can decide whether they want to follow my approach or try something different and then post it in the dedicated thread. To make this work properly, it´s important that we all work on the same ship and thus face all the same challenges and can transfer the input/help from other members directly on our own model. What´s the scope of the tutorial? Just the basic hard-surface stuff initially. Getting the plans into the modelling app, modelling the hull, head, transom, decks. Standing rigging and applying textures optional. What do I need to participate? Well, I'm using Blender and Gimp but any other modelling app like Maya or SketchUp and a picture-editing software will do. If you´re also using Blender, I suggest you install Offset Edges and LoopTools, which are really helpful imo. There countless other nice add-ons for Blender (like TinyCAD) but I won´t use them for this tutorial as I try to keep it as basic as possible. If you want to make a plan suggestion, please keep in mind that it should be a rather small ship, the plan should be in a decent resolution (min 3000 pix) and most importantly, free of any copyright. I think I'll leave this thread open for proposals for a week or so, then we should decide which one we use. After that, we can start with the tutorial. Here´s my proposal: Triton (danish, 1790 - 1807) Dimensions: 126 'x 34'x 16' 11'' Armament: 24 12-pounders, 6 12-pound howitzers (howitzers were kind of a scandinavian-navies-only thing and used explosive shot) Crew: 260 Plan Quality: Really good, no real distortions and the body plan lines up with the sheer quite nicely. One of the best contemporary plans I've seen so far. In total, there are 18 sheets for the Triton, including sail plan, cross section, inboard profile and separate drawings for the head and stern (which I put on top of the sheer and body plan, so you get a better impression what the ship looked like). It´s almost like a monograph for the Triton Resolution: 8000*3000 pixels Modelling Difficulty: As far as I can tell, modelling the Triton would be pretty straight-forward. Head and stern are easy as it gets when it comes to 18th century ships (I´m not talking about the figurehead and carvings ) and the hull shape should be no problem, either. Hull Shape Sneak Peak
  2. That´s a fine looking gun, Rob. You´re definitely ready for the tutorial By the way, the reason I´ve been silent for week is because a. I´ve been searching - again - for other plans comparable in quality with the ones I have for the Triton..well, I´ve found a couple, but they´re all danish, too. Anyway, the thread with my plan proposals will be up tomorrow. b. I´ve got four new books - The Battle of Copenhagen 1801, Defying Napoleon (Copenhagen 1807), French Warships 1628 - 1786 and The Warship Anne - and couldn´t stop reading / get my ass off the couch to do stuff for the tutorial. Yes, I´m a lazy bum... Good to have you on board, Tickler! And yeah, doing the rigging is a real learning experience...especially on how to deal with frustration and resist the urge to uninstall the modelling app permanently. Which book(s) did you use as reference?
  3. Merchant Ship Collection (With Plans)

    I to XXVI from the Architectura Navalis are all merchantmen, the larger ones intended for the East/West India route. Don´t use the bark builts or pinks (rather difficult-to-do sterns) if you´re new to 3d ships. And the plans require some work to make them usable, but nothing too demanding. Happy modeling
  4. Okay, then the Heldin seems to be a smaller version of the Euridice. Would be interesting to know if Heldin carried 8- or 12-pounders in dutch service. I think the former was the case. Of course If a plan fits the requirements (especially no copyright and size), then everyone can submit it, all suggestions welcome And I'm thinking about doing a two part tutorial. The first part will heed the advice given by Marion van Ghent in one of her tutorials back in the days of the PotBS shipyard:if you´re going to model a ship, model one of the ship´s boats first. I never really followed this advice myself but it would have saved me from shedding a lot of manly tears in front of Blender if I would have done. It´s much less complicated but comprises all the steps needed for a full-size frigate or SoL, so it´s easier for a beginner to establish a proper workflow. Anyway, I´ll probably make a new thread monday or tuesday with the plans suggested so far (and which will be open for new ones)
  5. Yikes. I had look at your models and dismissed any plan you've already done but since none of the plans on the archieven is named Euridice I thought I'd be on the safe side. She definitely could be a sister -ship of the Heldin. What's the length of the Euridice between the p/p?
  6. Here is my dutch suggestion for the tutorial, the Heldin of 1796. Dimensions: 130' x 36' x 14' (Amsterdam voet, 120' 9'' imperial, Triton's length in feet 129' 11''. Perpendiculars are pretty much in the same position, so a direct comparison is possible) Armament: 24 12-pounders 6 4-pounders (this is her armament in british service) Crew: 190 Plan Quality Good, a couple of spots with distortions, but all the important lines are pretty straight. This is the best plan from the dutch archives I found, all the others for smaller frigates and corvettes aren´t suitable for tutorial, in my opinion, as they would be too tricky to work with. Thankfully, the only good plan was for a genuine dutch design There are two sheets, both with sheer, body plan and waterlines plus inboard profile, one with detailed head and stern decorations and one without. We´d need to work with both, as some lines on the body plan are hidden on the more detailed draught. Modelling Difficulty As straight-forward as the Triton. Heldin had more elaborate decorations, but as sculpting isn´t part of the tutorial that´s no problem There is no cross section or deck layout plan, so that might require some guesswork. So, these are my two suggestions. I initially wanted to propose a third one, La Créole, but her plan from the Atlas de Genie Maritime is too distorted to be useful and I can´t use the monograph due to copyright reasons. Edit: just gave the Heldin a try As with Triton, I just modeled the station lines, so bow and stern are 'open'. The plan is easy enough to work with. The underwater part of the hull looks really nice with a relatively sharp entry and fine run, but I didn´t expect the upper part to be so wall-sided.
  7. Threw the plans of the Triton into Blender and, as expected, they´re really nice to work with. Pleasant, french-style body shape with considerable tumblehome, this would definitely be a nice looking model.
  8. I think I got my first proper suggestion, the danish Triton of 1790: Dimensions: 126 'x 34'x 16' 11'' Armament: 24 12-pounders, 6 12-pound howitzers (howitzers were kind of a scandinavian-navies-only thing and used explosive shot) Crew: 260 Plan Quality: Really good, no real distortions and the body plan lines up with the sheer quite nicely. One of the best contemporary plans I've seen so far. In total, there are 18 sheets for the Triton, including sail plan, cross section, inboard profile and separate drawings for the head and stern (which I put on top of the sheer and body plan, so you get a better impression what the ship looked like). It´s almost like a monograph for the Triton Modelling Difficulty: As far as I can tell, modelling the Triton would be pretty straight-forward. Head and stern are easy as it gets when it comes to 18th century ships (I´m not talking about the figurehead and carvings ) and the hull shape should be no problem, either. The only thing I really don´t like is that some station lines are really close to the gun ports which might require moving them a bit in order to avoid graphical glitches. But I´ll fire up Blender this afternoon and a have a proper look at it. By the way, the other danish runner-ups were this really cool 18-pounder frigate proposal and one frigate of the Freia-class. But @BungeeLemming already modeled the Freia, so I went for the Triton (which is by the same designer as Freia) I'll have a look at the dutch plans tomorrow
  9. Player-selected ship 2017 - Final poll

    Hm, hm, interesting article. But I think the author makes two mistakes. The first one is omitting the tables for the other Establishment years. These would show a steady and evolutionary increase in dimensions till the year 1745. But just showing the years 1719 and 1745 and then comparing it to the Princessa certainly does look better for the purpose of the article For further insight into the Establishments, I suggest 'The Work of The Surveyors of the Navy During The Period of The Establishments' by JP Hemingway. Second one is underestimating the importance of the influence of the captured french 74s pierced for 28 guns on the lower deck (Le Terrible, le Magnanime) which set the standard for 74s for the rest of the century. And they too were far larger than their british contemporary counterparts and also could have played a major part in the increase of dimensions in british ships. Also, I was talking about lines being copied, not dimensions, so my statement about the Christian VII still stands.
  10. Player-selected ship 2017 - Final poll

    The Princess had 19 years of active service, she was hulked in 1759. And the San Jose didn´t have a captain from 1814 to 1841 which suggests that she was laid up in ordinary during that time (but, looking at list of XOs, she also may have been used as a stationary flagship). They didn´t. The only non-french design the Brits copied in the 18th century was Hohlenberg´s Christian VII (for one 80-gun ship, the Cambridge, the Black Prince-class and the Jupiter-class)
  11. That´d be a pretty cool plan to work with, especially if it´s made by Surcouf But I´m not sure if it´s good plan for a tutorial, as there are a couple of issues with it: -the body plan looks like as it´s been photographed, not scanned, the left side is a bit distorted -working with a true french-style draught requires a lot of experience as you have to make some educated guesses, especially when modelling the bow/head and stern (for example, there are no lines defining the shape of the stern aft of the éstain). I´m not too keen on dutch frigates built before the 1760s (except those built at Rotterdam, if I remember correctly) as you essentially would be modelling a british Establishment 20- or 24-gun ship. You have the same 'problem' at the beginning of the 19th century as ships like Bellona, Maas, Rhijn and Lynx, Pallas, Komeet, Proserpina, Hekla are variations of the Sané Pallas- and Victorieuse-class. Concerning the skill level required for the tutorial: as Bungee said, I won´t show you how to move verts around, but if you completed this really good tutorial (parts 1 to 4) by BlenderGuru, you´ll definitely be able to do what I´m doing. And I'll do good ol' hard-surface modelling, so no fancy splines or Nurbs surfaces. And I´m really glad that there´s interest in this kind of project Bungee, I´ll denfinitely you up on your offer! I´ll have look at some suitable plans this weekend and make two or three suggestions, you´re all more than welcome to do the same
  12. I certainly do Unfortunately, I didn´t have much time lately to do anything useful, but I thought about the format of the hull modelling tutorial. Many sites dedicated to wooden scale ships have a group project, where community members work on the same ship with plans provided for by the site (like modelshipworld´s Triton). This is a pretty neat idea, as the members can help and assist each other because they´re working with the same plans, face the same challenges and problems with the model and find different approaches on how to deal with them (and, ideally, share those with the other members :P). I think that´d be great take on a 3D hull tutorial, too. The biggest problem is of course finding proper plans. They should be high-resolution (3000px +), easy to work with and, most importantly, free of any copyright so they can be uploaded and distributed without problems. This eliminates scanned plans from pretty much any book (like L' Amarante) and plans from the NMM. Okay are plans from the danish, dutch, swedish online archives, including chapman.net, and the Atlas de genie maritime. And the ship should be rather small (pierced for 12 to 30 guns), you don´t do a three-decker as your first ship model I already had a look at the archives I mentioned above and at a first glance my favourites would be the dutch Lynx/Komeet and Pallas, the danish Triton, Iris, Venus and Lille Belt shown in this thread and La Créole and la Perle (La Diligente-class) from the Atlas de genie maritime. Other suggestions are more than welcome, of course! This is how the process would look like: I upload the plans as they are and the adjusted versions (according to my first two tutorials), so it´s easy to understand what I´ve changed/adjusted and why. Then you can choose if you want to do the modelling with my version or if you want to edit the original plans yourself. I´ll then make a step-by-step 3D hull tutorial, but as we all are working on the same ship, we should able to help each other more easily when problems in the modelling process arise. This also has the benefit to get eventual questions answered (quicker) even when I´m busy with other stuff as other members may be able to help out. And I may learn a thing or two, too, as there is no single right approach to tackle a certain challenge in 3D modelling, just different ways how to do things. So, is there interest in this approach? If yes, which ship should we should choose?
  13. Small tutorial: How to read a plan

    Explanations of different types of measurements (danish, french and british) added to the OP.
  14. I think there´s a typo in British Warships, the breadth moulded can´t be greater than breadth extreme. 30' 9,5'' would make more sense, 3,5 '' of plank thickness sounds about right.
  15. That deck is the upper deck, though, not the gundeck the British used for depth in hold. The French measured dih from the upper surface of the keel (including the rabbet line) to the lower surface of the deck beams at the maitre couples. And there are a lot of ways to define the perpendiculars, LeBoiteux already described the most common (outside of stern post to outside of stem post). But I've seen quite a few French drawings which used the intersection of the LWL and the rabbet lines (without plank thickness).
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