John Sheppard

Ok thanks for clarification , i missread the flag v flag thing my bad One more clarification if possible just to be sure , let's say i'm British , a couple other brits tagged nation X but i wasn't pulled in due to being too far away so i join the battle latter on my own side, will i still get the negative reputation or this reputation thing is only for joining under "false" flag? (i understand and assume the latter but just want to make sure it is)

Also one more very important thing just got brought up in discussion . What about when nations do agreed fights for practice? this will no longer be possible . This is very important thing that @admin needs to think about . At the very least there should be a "i forgive you" button that you can press and not have the battle count against the enemy's reputation

This honestly seems very exploitable like Anolytic has said , most serious clans have alts in most if not all nations which they can bring along and hide in battles from gank fleets . It's really not that hard to know who is friends with who and use the appropriate alt . This feels worse than the old alliance system , way worse IMHO , it poses the same restrictions on PvP without the benefits of stopping rogue clans like the alliance system would . Honestly if you can't be bothered to deal with griefers all the time just bring back the alliance system it's way better than this , perhaps tweak it a bit something like Chrissy proposed above (except the going pirate part) There are other games that i remember having similar successful systems like X3TC/AP (also very good economy systems)

TL : DR Havoc does something bad and people ask them why/ complain about it Havoc: Shut up you noob and keep on working / IT's just a game / HAHAHA you're so funny/ Jeez don't over-react . (Pretty much every time) Anybody else : Does something to Havoc once, ALL HELL BRAKES LOOSE Havoc: opens up tribunal posts and thratens with war, screaming and complaining for days Havoc : OW PvP Treaties are impossible and you are an idiot to think otherwise Also Havoc : We want PvP Treaty if we are to have peace, we don't want you to camp our waters with 20 players GB : But that's what we have been asking for all along, and the reason this war started , we asked simple no 20 lineship camping and this is same like you asked . If you had accepted, war would never start Havoc : You are stupid shut up and take my money , i mean offer GB : No go F yourself Havoc : You are unreasonable and we will destroy you for this insolence Havoc : We like challenge and we don't like winning easy battles Also Havoc : Avoids fighting against russia and makes long post on forum about how happy they are that they won a battle against GB Noobs GB : GG

Oh i love how the swedes love to play the poor victim but thing is you were given plenty warning that if you don't stop your BS , there will be war as i explicitly stated in my (now removed) screenshot

Sorry mate but my screenshots were not private convesations with one person but rather a diplomatic channel where many people had access to. Why is that not ok to post for me but ok for other people to post (for example some people's signature on here)?

I don't actually own a TV at home , never had a use for it , sorry to dissapoint

You obviously didn't read anything . No it was about the way we were being treated , like a dog with 0 respect or courtesy , being used as a meatshield and target practice at the same time .In fact we were treated with more respect by Anolytic and North despite our differences. We simply didn't want to put up with Swedish/Havoc bullshit anymore. If you expected us to keep on being your dogs well you were wrong

Finally some constructive criticism. Pls substitite wherever i say "sweden" with "HAVOC" well i can be excused for thinking "sweden" whenever i think "rediii" those 2 things are kind of synonymous wouldn't you agree? Keeping track of who and exactly when switched nation to where is a bit hard for everybody on the server so i generally remember the people who were involved as it doesn't really matter which flag they're flying , it's the same people. Yes true you didn't have 20 people in HAVOC at the time but there were other players in your nation . Maybe you couldn't motivate them fine . But how about when you switched to sweden? Our main problem and annoyance was that , you never seemed to have enough people to help us , always coming up with excuses . But somehow you could easily field 20 people usually in lineships (4th rates and up) to camp SdC . This seemed like total BS , you were fine with us being a meatshield and a toy. As to the claim that those were old issues thing is that it started to build up slowly over the month with us swallowing our pride everytime, listening to excuses . And thing is that this kind of behavior never really stopped, if anything it got worse. I don't recall us camping your crafting waters with 20 players (and proportionally we should had brought more) almost everyday while saying "sorry we didn't feel like joining multiflip today we were too busy" . This would be pretty much a slap in the face and you did exactly that at beginning-mid december for a multiflip YOU asked (by you i mean rediii) . If we had done anything like that you would imidiatelly declare war on us just like you threatned to do when BASTD finally flipped and said they'll do to you what you've been doing to us. (which happened in the following days after the incident at hand and ultimately lead to the battle that redii opened up in tribunal) Thing is that this action (again to clarify , you asked organized a mutflip and we ended up being the only ones who did it, meanwhile when we asked you why you weren't participating in your own multiflip you said you didn't feel like and instaed were ganking our guys with 20 ppl who could had gone flipping something... WITHOUT telling us you were gonna call it off so you used us pretty much ) was the last drop in the cup that pushed the vast majority of the GB clans to say "hello kitty THE SWEEDES WE AREN'T HELPING ANYMORE ,WE WILL GIVE THEM SOME OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE" From that point relations deteriorated and the rest is as you know it. Some people kept trying to justify your action but they were met with very little sympathy

You saying he was always like this? I stand corrected then my appologies for that point

LOL @Gregory Rainsborough "sorry i missed" is that really what you could come up with mate? Everyone who even haves a small clue who Greg is, would know very well that it's pretty much impossible that he would miss at such a close range especially considering he's so used to fighting in a snow he knows exactly where to fire and by how much to lead the target . Probably better than a computer . Furthermore looking at the map it seems that gregory's ship is not even angled enough to be able to shoot at his clanmate who he claims to be really aiming at . Regardless to miss by 3 ship lengths from such a close range for someone so experienced like Greg and "accidentally" hit the guy square on the main sail? No sorry i call BS I recomend a firm slap on the wrist and a demand to write "I shall not inflict green on green damage ever again" 50 times with the left hand While might seem trivial it might have forced the player out of the battle earlier than prefered and force him to use rig repairs which he might be short on

No unfortunately i did not screenshot everything like Liam and silentwraith insults over the months coz i thought that yeah they are asholes but atleast you will uphold your honor . Obviously i was wrong . Thank you for the screenshots they demonstrate perfectly some of my points That's exactly the dismissive tone we have been treated with from Liam and silentwraith for months , each time when we bring our concerns to you . Shut up and suck it up , oh btw will you come to screen/flip something tomorrow or keep complaining about how we treat you? Yet despite this (mostly LAMA) was still trying to justify your action in GB council and still get people to help you altho BASTD was pretty much pulled out from this BS at this point and were looking to screw you along with the majority of GB clans. You have only yourself to blame for this as you managed to force us to overcome our huge hatred for the russians and hate you even more than them . Congratulations! And nice you chose those screenshots on the 23rd when we had barely enough people to fill a PB because of the holidays . What about all the other times we came to screen for you? both defensive and offensive PBs? We have been screening for you since before you joined sweden , If you remember attack on Santo Domingo as an example ? What about all the attacks on Mugeres Conttoy where we consistently screened you in over the 3-4 attempts or however many it was that you needed to actually win the PB against the russians? We were even coming on your TS , left there without any information or contact and then being screemed at by some rude old dude (don't remember who it was) for not being in position lol. It was 25 of us . 5 groups of 5 people . And we screened out or scared off pretty much every russian that was in the area allowing your fleet to get into both ports . When have you EVER screened for us in such numbers? You were coming to gank us when you were supposed to be flipping yes . Just as Cid said in my last screenshot it was about start to mid December . And that's when we decided we will have no more of your bullshit so BASTD ofc started to engage you in OW and call it PvP EXACTLY LIKE YOU HAD BEEN DOING LITERALLY 50k FROM RVR ACTIVE TARGETS. At which point you started to complain and open tribunal posts about us if you remember In case you did not notice , Frosty was trolling you by giving you pretty much copy pasted excuses that you had been giving us for months but i forgive you for not realizing it , it's hard to recogize your own image in the mirror sometimes . I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by pasting the discord discussion spam . It doesn't have any valid points except that we didn't outright declare war on you and i will give this to you . Yes that was bad and i wanted to do it the honourable way but i was not allowed by the rest of brits who wanted to surprise attack you , then give you some made up excuses lifted from your own excuse book . Basicly we wanted to give you some of your own treatment . There was literally nobody who felt any sympathy for you in GB and that's saying something . The only thing some people had problem with was the way this war was NOT declared but it makes very little difference coz you had ample warning that this MIGHT be coming . My screenshot was not the first time you were warned

OMG i'm so fed up with swedish crying about GB "backstabing" them . In fact they don't shut up about it lol . They like to twist facts and forget others so much that it wants to make people puke I'm tired of writing this over and over again only for some swedish troll to grab onto one phrase and twist it out of context , ignoring the rest of the argument(s) If you disagree consider explaining why exactly, like a structured debate with logical arguments and not just "this is BS" which does not explain why you hold a certain point of view, and which exactly arguments here you disagree with . Again this is not a post of brits complaining about what the swedes have done but rather a post aimed at informing people, who have heard only one side of the story , about what drove the brits to this controversial decision. This WILL be lengthy and if you can't be bothered to devote 5 minutes to quickly read over a post then consider NOT posting any snarky comments and look like an ignorant fool , who doesn't contribute anything to the topic . Thank you for you understanding So why DID GB leave the swedish alliance REALLY? Let me start from the beginning , how this alliance came to be in the first place Havoc (along with many others) wanted to overthrow the russians as they felt they are too powerfull and should be counterbalanced GB was approached to join the alliance . As we had already been at war with russians and losing we shared our concerns that if we enter the alliance we will serve only as a meat shield against the russians who will focus us even more (atleast till that point their attention was split) SPOILER it happened exactly that way Russians came down from tumbado like an unstoppable force and started taking every port in their path . When we asked help from our swedish and dutch allies we were met by comments like "We can't afford the outposts you've got to deal with it on your own . But do come screen for us tomorrow" or "WTF you crying about??? you haven't lost your crafting port yet so shut up and go flip port X" Only by a fluke accidnet /miracle we managed to NOT lose Salamanca (a port we would never had been able to re-rake as it is very easy to defend) only due to some russian captains paniking and joining the PB few seconds early which then allowed our screening fleet (which untill then did not have enough BR) to tag the rest into battle which was very costly for GB. The swedes did make a reluctant appearance with a bunch of 3rd rates and a 2nd rate or 2 , in total i believe it was 7 (seven) swedes "Screening" with possibly 2 more joining later After that we started losing ports one after the other yet our "allies" were nowhere to be found we informed our "allies" that if nothing will be done to assist us we will be forced to capitulate to the russians as they are offering us reasonable terms and the huge effort of building up all the ports was fresh on everybody's mind. The swedes ignored this , so few days later we signed a truce with RUS with the entire area around of our crafting waters being protected and RvR allowed on certain ports like Bluefields to train GB players . The only request Russia made was that we do not screen for their enemies in offensive port battles . EVEN tho some GB captains ignored this , the russians did not break the truce recognizing the impact of taking such a large nation as GB out of the game. The swedish and other allies met this turn of events with , quite francly , hilarious outrage and mockery saying that we should had consulted/informed them before withdrawing from the alliance and saying that it was a mistake since they would apparently come screen for us IF the russians had reached our crafting port . Ofc this was all just talk as when the russians came within 15K of belize to try do hostility missions , our allies were never there . I'm sure it would be just like the other times when they said "we don't have time" "it's a bad day" "we're not in the mood" or "we don't have outposts there and it's too far to sail" . We informed them that our truce with the russians is only temporary untill we regain our depleted strength (as scraping combat marks to make 1st rates was very difficult at the time) to fight them once more (and we had made that thing clear to the russians aswell and they were fine with it since they wanted REAL PBs) Fast forward few weeks and @Captain Cid's crew joins GB and specially thanks to @Shocktrooper Basteyy's excellent leadership we start fighting and actually winning against russians for the first time. We resume active role in the alliance helping and screening where we can , sometimes even when it's only few minutes after our own port battles yet we begin to notice some strange patterns. For example : On more than one occasion when going to attack a russian port , our screening fleet was attacked by duch or swedish players and when we ask our allies why is this , what's going on , again we get excuses like "it was not directly like in front of the port you are attacking , it was 50k away therefore it's free for all OW PvP". We argued that it's not coz this is part of RvR operations and hinders the ability of our PB fleet to get into the actuall PB. We were silenced with a very dismissive attitude but we swalled it for the good of the common goal In time this sort of things kept happening even going as far in some cases of us going help screen our allies into their PB , then on the way back our screening fleet gets attacked by other "allies" . Again gets called PvP . When we bring it up we get dismissed again. We swallow it for the common good aswell... Multiple more offences of our "allies" attacking our screening or hostility fleets sometimes already very damaged and running back home with russians on our tails , then getting tagged and finished off by "allies" who were supposed to help us against the russian fleet chassing us but no they choose the easy target. Again we are crazy and it's just PvP and no OW Pvp agreement is feasible . We swallow this aswell for the common goal Multiple instances of reporting our position , heading , fleet composition and possible intention in gobal chat in-game and we dare ask our allies why they did it? "WTF don't over-react it was just a joke , oh you got all killed? LOL well it's war , stop crying and deal with it , you can't tell us what we can and can't type wherever we want. But do come screen tomorrow" We said ok but don't do it again pls we're losing ships for no reason . They laughed at us.... Soon after 15-20 , sometimes more swedes camping outside SdC in big ships became a usual sight , this being discussed multiple times in nation and decided to try not fight them to avoid generating further hostility between us . In any case at the times, our best players were usually busy either flipping or defending our ports We asked the swedes multiple times to stop coming with such big numbers everyday as it was causing an increasingly problematic logistical issue not to mention that a lot of people became unwilling to help the swedes . We informed them about it on multiple occasions but the swedes chose to instead mock and insult us for suggesting such a thing "OW agreements are impossible only idiots would think one is possible" We suggested them alternative , more productive targets like Esteros / Tumbado just like we had a lot of people ganking russians there succesfully but again no . We even asked if the swedes could arrange ONE day per week that they would NOT come with so many people in front of our crafting port so our crafters could peacefully move around stuff and build us more ships to throw at the russian ship-grinder . Aparently this one small compromise was an outrageous request so all we got was more insults and mockery for our trouble. Me personally and others had repeatedly asked the swedes to find a compromise for those issues and informed them that the "balance of hate" (for lack of a better description) was shifting from hating the russians to hating the swedes coz atleast the russians were honest about things and were not causing us so much damage as the swedes. We were ignored and mocked as usual. As time progressed and things continue to be discussed in our own nation and ,contrary to popular request, i informed the swedes that 70% of the british clans have decided to terminate their alliance and will no longer help screen for sweden , on the contrary will be going to war if the above situation persists, so all the claims of GB suddenly backstabing their great allies , sweden is a total lie fabricated by HAVOC as can be proven by the screenshot Even this was met with insults and mockery as usual . So it was decided to screw the swedes and go to war . I was not allowed to formaly declare it , as it was felt that i had given more than ample warning and as it turned out the swedes knew about it already due to some people having lose tongues so them acting all surprised is total BS . They were on scene to stop the hostility within minutes. As myself and others have said this was a predictable move , if you treat someone like a dog and beat them too much they will bite you in the ass . In our case we did issue many warnings. The deciding point and what pushed us over the edge was when @rediii himself ordered us to do a multiflip the next day ,which we agreed to without any protest ,so we went out and did as ordered . However while we were grinding hostility we noticed that we are alone in doing so and that there was no other hostility generated by the swedes on the ports they were supposed to flip . When we contacted the swedes to inquire about the reasons for this turn of events we were met by a dismissive "we simply didn't feel like it". The fun thing is that we saw 20 swedes being reported outside SDC in lineships and soon combat news filled up with swedes sinking GB noobs and traders (as pretty much every experienced player was bussy with the multiflip). We had received no prior communication from the swedes to inform us about the cancelation of the multiflip. Contrary to rediii's assertion and lies LAMA was one of the leading clans advocating for the end of the swedish alliance and consequent attack on them. To prove that redii is a lying little wench once and for all i will share some screenshot from british discord that i managed to find with a quick search and hope that my friends in prussia will forgive me as this was certainly not aimed against them but rather prove my point As you can see i have provided irrefutable proof unlike rediii's lies which he regularly tells to his "allies" to make them follow him and ofc they did not have any way to verify that what he says is true so i'm mostly making this post for them. I had been contacted by some swedish captains asking why GB is so stubborn and won't agree to peace but when i explain to them what really happened they were surprised as apparently it was all presented very differently to them I also attach a screenshot of Cid saying much of the same things i'm saying here in the forums On the issue about why LAMA left GB , perhaps you should ask them directly if you really wanna know but all i will say is that there were other important factors involved and it was not because GB attacked sweden without their consent like rediii likes to claim Also in contrast i would like to point out how funny it is when some BASTD guys after being fed up with the state of affairs and while we were still allies , organized a little ganking group in swedish waters which was meant again with outrage for tha one single time . However when the swedes did it for weeks it was fine lol. Also everyone remembers rediii's post in Tribunal where he complained because some brits kept him in battle for 2 hours to bring heavier ships and the incrediblue metric ton of insults our diplomats received in the joint discord aftewards for that one battle . Such comments as "you've wasted our time how dare you do that as our ally" were especually hilarious when you consider that they had ganked our hostility fleet before which had to first get organized , sail out to russian port , do hostility mission , get ganked by the russians and fight our way out , sail back fighting multiple battles , just to be ganked by swedish "allies" for another hour or so . Total? 4hours? Did we make tribunal? did we start a post on forum complaining about "backstabing" ? no we simple asked the swedes why and told them it's not nice But the most funny part of all is this : Sweden : OW PvP agreements are impossible and you are idiots for even thinking otherwise Also Sweden : We will offer you peace but you have to agree to non PvP agreement in crafting region (3 itterations of their peace offers included this condition) Which is ironic coz this is what GB has been asking from them ALL ALONG and if they had not been selfish uhmmm.. certain male genital organs , this war would had never happened , so our position is that this war happened because of the swedes . As a closing statment i would like to say that it should be obvious that english is not my first language and ofc there are mistakes. Hopefully this post is good enough to convey the main issues. Thanks for reading this longer than intended post [ private conversations screenshots removed ] . Hethwill, the moderation team Edited by John Sheppard: Fine i have cropped the screenshot to only show my message and Cid's post here on the forums which does not vialoate any rules and thefore isn't supposed to be removed @Hethwill

As someone who has been held in battles by a fir/fir DLC ship for 3 hours (actually wasted my day) more than once , i fully support this idea and would even say 5 minutes as that gives plenty of time for someone to catch up to anyone they're actually pursuing and can't be abused OR if it has to be 15 minutes there should be some kind of protection (either spawn out of visual or just not be able to be tagged by same griefer repeatedly) coz the current system is being abused by people with alts on laptops etc . I know some smarta**es here will say it can easily be avoided but that's BS . If you are pulled in battle like this by someone who's got no intention of fighting and has a purpose built dlc ship fir/fir with some cheap mods , there is NOTHING you can do like suppose you're in a trinc or ratvisan or whatever and you're getting tagged by a speedcapped hermione Another alternative is make it so that mast hits that don't penn do not tag the enemy therfore if you're sitting with your sails down you can't be tagged

Like others have suggested i think crew damage should be lowered for ships in brace and also there should be Hull damage for nearby ships and quite significant at that if the ship is touching the exploding ship , with a dropout to zero hull damage at 150m But i also have another suggestion which i didn't see from anyone (didn't read all the posts tho) and it's that crew damage should be dependant not only on distance but also on the health of the ship in question . Ie if a ship is heavily damaged and lost most of its armor it would not protect its crew well as it's become "swiss cheese" full of holes . Also i think there should be a cooldown when coming out of brace aswell as i imagine in this situation in real life i would order all the gun ports closed ASAP , even firing the guns in order to do that if neccessary and then all crew bellow decks where they should be quite safe from the explosion unless it was so close enough that it would damage the ship's planking but in no case would it kill EVERYONE sorry if it doesn't make sense i'm half asleep