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Sir Lancelot Holland

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Everything posted by Sir Lancelot Holland

  1. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Game: Return Of The Obra Dinn

    Yeah, I know what you mean, we actually held a mock trials of Guy Fawkes and King Charles I in school, but that was many years ago. I do think though that such games, mock trials, and debate are healthy, it promotes independent thinking over dogma and that is truly a great thing.
  2. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Game: Return Of The Obra Dinn

    Sounds a bit like the Board of inquiry and Admiralty court proceedings into the mystery of the Marie Celeste, long on supposition and short on facts. It should provide entertainment for those with inquiring minds though.
  3. Sir Lancelot Holland

    predator of the requin needed

    In a way it is like WW II aviation, In the RAF the prestige appointments were in Fighter Command as opposed to Bomber, Coastal and Transport commands, within Fighter command there were only two airframes worth flying, the glamourous Spitfires or the maid of all work Hurricanes, no sane fighter pilot wanted to fly Gladiators or the Defiants, Every man and his dog wanted Spitfires, yet it was the less desired Hurricanes that carried the load, mainly because Hurricanes could be produced faster than Spitfires, Hurricanes won the Battle of Britain, the Gladiators of Malta did far more to defend that Island than Spitfires and Hurricanes did, yet everyone wanted to fly Spitfires. Likewise in the 18/19th Century Ships of the Line were the commands everyone trained for, or wanted, few got them, those who did were on fast track to Flag rank, they were the pride of the fleet, unlike the Frigates which were the maids of all work and steppingstones to the prized SoL commands, yet, there were some officers who'd sell their mother for a berth aboard HMS Endymion or the Indy, the prestige ships of the Frigate world. Who, as an ambitious Midshipman, wanted a berth aboard small ships, why have the Bounty or the Snow when you could have Endy or Indy, better still, Royal Sovereign or Victory? However, then, as now, you go where you are needed not where you want to be, in game, we can choose our own commands, we have accelerated promotion which means we don't stay on one type of ship long enough to appreciate their characteristics, to learn thoroughly the intricacies of sailing and fighting small ships before driving a Victory, then, losing her quickly because we don't yet know enough to use her wisely. Some of the best combat Captains in game are masters at sailing small ships, Gregory Rainsborough and his Snow's, Hatchirouku and his Trincomalee's, to be the best SoL Captains you have to learn from the bottom up, that means transports, sloops, small ships, Frigates and ultimately Ships of the Line, If you cannot handle a Frigate at a Commander's level and are promoted Post Captain how can you sail and fight a Third rate never mind the Victory! it's why Midshipmen/Ensigns were required to of had at least one prize command under their belt, preferably more to iron out any issues arising from the first command, and, sit the Lt's examination, perhaps, in game the first half of the tutorial could include promotion to Lt, with Master and Commander qualification on completion of the full tutorial, by this point Captains should be competent enough to work for higher promotion. New players should take the time to practice what they have learned in one part of the tutorial before attempting the next, (assuming that they take the tutorial) learn how ships perform at given weights or wind states and points of sail, promotion may be slower, but, there is no point in learning combat skills if you can barely sail the ship, the knowledge you gain may mean the difference between a successful cruise or dining with Davy Jones Esq. Try all the ships out, use the ones you feel most comfortable with, just because someone else believes the Endymion is the best ship since weevil free hardtack, it does not mean it is the right ship for you. Working as a trader for a while provides that sailing experience, learning combat skills is easier once you are confident in your ability to actually sail the ship as you don't need to second guess the sailing part. Even Spitfire pilots learned to fly in Tiger Moths before training as a combat pilot, so it is with learning to sail and fight warships. Sailing supplies, troops and plunder, as dull as it is, earns gold, xp, and sailing experience, especially if you learn how to evade your friendly, local pirates, or, enemy warships, and, particularly, the commerce raiders, who make life so interesting for traders and warship commanders alike!
  4. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Economy rework needed

  5. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

    An interesting point raised by the site is the recycling of components due to ship redesign as in the use of the 15" 'X' gun turrets and guns of the Battlecruisers HMS Renown and HMS Repulse which were fitted to Monitors saving costs on their build, or, from ships paid off to scrap, or, too battle damaged to be salvaged, like, the main and secondary batteries of KMS Gneisenau which were used as shore gun batteries. The ability to keep parts that have been built then not used due to redesign, or, surplus to requirements due to battle damage to the ship, then, used on a later design could be an interesting construction point in the game.
  6. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

    It is, I think, also an tribute to those men of all nations who go to sea on boats, as a young man I maintained the Helos that hunted the boats with little or no thought of what those men had to endure, to those who sailed on, are sailing on, or will sail on submarines I say Salute, they truly earn(ed) the respect they command for doing a difficult, highly dangerous job with skill and courage.
  7. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

    As My lords of the Admiralty said at the time, " Submarines Sir? Never Sir, most unsporting and not British Sir!" lol.
  8. Sir Lancelot Holland

    History of the captain

    There were all kinds of 'pond life' inhabiting the Military during this era, emptying the prisons to make up numbers was normal, like the Black and Tans of WWI, or the Dirlwanger Brigade of WWII. Criminals in the 18th/19th centuries were often given the choice of, or were sentenced to, taking the King's Shilling or deportation in Court, some even volunteered to avoid prosecution for their crimes, once in military service they were untouchable. Little wonder then, that, Wellington considered his troops to be the scum of the Earth. It is not so long ago that the French Foreign Legion accepted recruits and asked no questions, today of course, they are more select in their recruits, as befits an elite Regiment. Some Clans in game ask for minimal requirements for members, most do not, and there are tells that give away players who have changed their names or wiped their careers to start over, after all, anyone, who joins a clans at a very low rank and immediately wipes the floor with the enemy is either very talented or has done this before. There has to be a degree of trust in clans, even in organisations where vetting is extensive the odd traitor gets in, even intelligence organisations like MI5, the CIA, the KGB, even Mossad have had rogue members, if they can't keep them out, then, we certainly cannot, unfortunately 'bad boys' go with the territory.
  9. Sir Lancelot Holland

    It's time for Justice

    Justice, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, in the same way that history and the justification of the conduct of any war is written by the victors. It has always been the case that one man's justice is another man's injustice, wars are not fought for justice, but, because those who hold power cannot come to a reasoned agreement, or, they want something their opponent has and cannot obtained through diplomacy. There are no politics, very little diplomacy in game, indeed, there is not even the concept that 'the enemy' has something we need that is worth the fight, I think that right now the only real justification for sinking anyone is the colours flown from the Mizzen mast of their ships! If ever we have causus belli, defined conditions for victory and a method of resetting the status quo once victory is achieved then such rhetoric will have a place, it will have the meaning that such inspirational writing deserves. Right now Naval Action is good, it has issues to be worked out still, but, with a little direction regarding why we are at war, the conditions needed to fulfill victory, a simple map reset when victory is attained, the game could be great, Nations can decide whom they can fight with, or, against, or, take on all comers, yet, allow the game to be played sandbox as intended, as, the strategy and tactics dictate.
  10. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Retag griefing

    It may well be the case that F11 will be removed on launch anyway, if so, then, that part of the issue would resolve itself. Whatever mechanics are proposed are going to have their pro's and con's, and will create 'round robin' debates such as this, so, perhaps we could take an idea from the very men who lived in this era, and, who actually fought these battles. Most of us, I think, are aware of the code of honour between nations that paralleled the articles of war, the ones that governed the treatment of captured Officers and Ratings, or, that prohibited the Captains of ships of the line from engaging Frigates and below unless attacked first. Perhaps the adoption of such 'Gentlemen's agreements' could have a place in the game, it would be very much in keeping with the era, and, some of this code still exists today, the picking up of combatant survivors (subject to potential risk to the ship) is still in force. It is something that to my knowledge has not been attempted in game, but, if a code of honour' could be established, then, the need for mechanics in this instance could be partially negated. Granted, there will still be incidents like this but hopefully most will see the advantages and such incidents will become rarer. Perhaps then, it is something to be considered as another option in game.
  11. Sir Lancelot Holland

    OW Flags and "Ruse de Guerres"

    Which indeed it would, although the articles of war are very specific, naval Captains who failed to investigate strange sails had very short careers, if they engaged overwhelming forces again their career was over so disengaging from such was permissible under those circumstances. That said, some Captain's did so on principle, Captain Kennedy of the Rawalpindi engaged both Scharnhorst and Gneisenau in an Armed Merchant Cruiser and was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross. I actually like the idea, it is unfortunate that the option to communicate with all vessels was removed, since, interrogatories could be conducted quickly with variations of Popham's signal book which was in use during this period using numbers to convey phrases and orders.
  12. Sir Lancelot Holland

    OW Flags and "Ruse de Guerres"

    The Ruse de Guerres is I think a natural part of naval warfare, it is well known that pirates would often fly national colours to attempt to evade naval patrols or keep their victims off guard until the last moment. Navy's too would do so, particularly if the intent was a cutting out or destructive mission within a port area, and the occasional covert mission. It is known that the Lusitania under Captain Haddock used the Stars and Stripes as a ruse de guerres while transiting the Uboat zone on one occaision during WWI and that the Admiralty were less than happy about it, HMS Campletown and her consorts also flew the Kriegsmarine Ensign entering St Nazaire prior to running up the White Ensign before opening fire, so it was still in use during both world wars. With regard to beatiing to quarters or action stations, it was, and still is normal for warships to assume action stations at dawn until the horizon had been surveyed or upon sight of a strange sail in time of war. In game it increases the chances for traders to complete journey's especially if the Captains name remains unknown, or the Captain uses an alias, it also means that each ship should have a name for interrogatory purposes, which may be problematical due to database space restrictions, unless nations keep an external log of ships and captains, which, may prove to be too great a time consuming activity keeping such a log current..
  13. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Admiralty Missions - Compass rose reverse polarity error

    Like compass swinging a Sea King or Wessex to align the compasses and check variation? Several hours shifting the aircraft by hand in a circle on a Winters day was not a lot of fun! At least the much smaller, lighter, Wasp on it's four wheel castored undercarriage was a bit easier. We could not use a tug as it could affect the Magnetic standby compasses. The F4's, Buccaneers and Gannets must have been absolute hell on earth.
  14. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Classic Connie--Your Killing Us Here!

    The First Sea Lord uses Nelson's Great cabin for ceremonial purposes, there is also a contingent of Royal Naval personnel drafted to her, she is a commissioned warship in the Royal Navy in exactly the same way as HMS Heron aka RNAS Culdrose is. Were the USS Constitution permanently dry docked, she too, being in commission, maintains her status as a warship within the United States Navy just as any other shore establishment does. In no way do the facts detract anything from the USS Constitution, her achievements stand, as they always have, and, as they always will. Nothing, or, no one can take away, or, deny the fact she is the oldest Commissioned warship afloat, or, the the place in history she holds, the same holds true of HMS Victory's achievements, original date of commission and the fact that she still holds that commission be she afloat or dry docked. On the facts there is no argument to be had.
  15. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Classic Connie--Your Killing Us Here!

    There is not very much left of the original Victory either, a few cannons and some of the wood is still there.
  16. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Classic Connie--Your Killing Us Here!

    Yes, which is why I accept that USS Constitution is the oldest commissioned warship still afloat as stated in my original post.
  17. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Classic Connie--Your Killing Us Here!

    The claim that USS Constitution is the the worlds oldest commissioned warship is incorrect, HMS Victory is both older and still in commission in the Royal Navy, she is currently Flagship to the First Sea Lord. That being said, her claim to be the oldest commissioned warship still afloat is valid, and, like HMS Victory is a reminder not only of the traditions, values, honour, and, courage of the men and ships of both the Royal Navy, and, the United States Navy, but, also of both Great Britain and the United States of America. It is to be hoped that both ships will continue to serve their nations for many years to come. https://www.hms-victory.com/
  18. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Classic Connie--Your Killing Us Here!

    I think that if realism is required then both the advantages and disadvantages should be accepted, as they were by the men who sailed them. In a game however that may not always be practical, just because a ship is rated at a set speed it does not mean that the ship can maintain that speed, many ships never achieved maximum rated speed throughout their whole careers while, another ship of the same class could hold speed records in excess of rated speed. Clearly, what Captains did with their ships had influence on speed, weather, too, had influence on speed, as did loading and outfitting, how two ships of the same class were constructed could marginally influence speed even when constructed to plan, by the same builders. It is not a question of fairness but one of minor differences in build, operation, rig and many other minor differences, and that is before weather, fouling, and sea states played their part. That being said the differences were in fact measured in fractions of a knot, although, fouling could and did reduce speeds by well over a knot over time making careening a necessary evil, and, I suppose we should be thankful that fouling, like variable wind speeds (to any major degree) are not considered factors in game! Trafalgar was fought at speeds as low as 2-4 knots, it took the whole morning to position before the first shots were even fired, and the better part of the rest of the day to complete. That is realism, i doubt that in those circumstances you will find many players with the time, or, inclination to fight under those conditions. The problem is, as always, finding a compromise that allows a good degree of realism, yet, still remains playable and interesting.
  19. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Useful Marines

    Yes, and to good effect, it is believed that the man who fatally shot Nelson was a French Marine, Sadly the name of this man is unknown, he would certainly have known he had shot a British Officer, possibly a high ranking officer due to the Star and Garter Nelson habitually wore. Such was the fear of how the crew of HMS Victory would react that they covered his face as they carried him down to the surgeon in the Orlop deck. The Fleet was not told of Nelson's death until the battle was over.
  20. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Useful Marines

    It is conceivable that Marines may have had light duties in the mizzen, it is well known that Marines did climb rigging if only as far as the fighting tops, equally likely they would have been part of the Mizzen division for administrative purposes, it would go a long way to explaining why in later years they only ever manned 'X' and 'Y' turrets which were the aft main gun turrets aboard Royal Naval warships (Ceaser and Dora aboard German warships, and, if memory serves, turrets were numbered aboard U.S. Warships). Certainly, in later years, Marines functioned as stretcher bearers, it is, I think, reasonable that Marines would have been involved in damage control, manning pumps and passing fire buckets would free up badly needed able seamen for leak repairs and other duties, while it may not have been Admiralty policy, no doubt, many Captains would have employed them in such roles.
  21. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Idea: (Pt3/4) Fleet Commanders Companion [FCC]

    In this instance the positions are reversed, the French would have give ground to gain sea room in order to wear in succession, tacking would leave the French Van vulnerable to broadside fire from both the GB Van and Centre leaving GB Rear free to pass close inshore and very possibly intercept the merchants as they try to flee. The French Rear would find themselves close ashore with the wind driving them onto a lee shore so their option would be to tack onto 225* then pass through the wind astern of GB Van attempting to catch up. the counter move would be GB steering about 315* hoping to catch the French Rear mid turn, or, forcing them to reverse the turn so as not to get caught in irons, either way the French Rear is in trouble. The GB Centre could hold course leaving them in a position to either break the the French Van's line creating an opportunity for a general chase, or turn to either 090* or 270* to engage with Broadside in line of battle, on the downside they can then either support the Frigates (who should be in a fair position to cross the 'T' and rake the lead ship of the French Van as they go by) or the Van by being between them and the French Van, who, of necessity will need to wear ship simultaneously to keep position and avoid running onto the lee shore. If the maneuver is left too late they would be forced to tack through the wind. The Frigates would by now be passed and in good position to carry out their task of catching the merchants. In this instance the advantage lays with the attacker as the proximity of land to the French reduces their options to a greater extent than it does to GB especially if GB Centre and Van can keep to seaward of the French. Tacking or wearing in succession or together is something we don't do, neither do we form echelon in order to form line faster (on the rare occasions line is used), which involves a series of incremental turns to make the line from 45* off of the lead ships course, reducing collisions while forming the line astern. The formations are easy to learn and form, and once line is formed turning in succession or together is relatively easy. Unlike the 'blob' no ones 'A' arcs are obscured for long periods of time, the risks of collision are also far higher in a blob, and, in line, support from the ship ahead and astern is usually available. Now, none of the formal formations or tactics means that individuality is wrong, any tactic that works is a good tactic until countered, simply put, the formal tactics are the result of hundreds of years of practical experience, and, they work, Individuality is good for shock value, it can, and, does win battles, but, if two well disciplined lines ever start funneling individual ships from a blob between the lines from astern then the Blob has to break cohesion in order to break the lines or die because they cannot get sufficient guns to bear on target. Of course, the lead ships can escape, as can any ship that is not tagged, or, slowed down and funneled, what may be waiting for a depleted fleet that escapes, will, naturally, be a whole different story.
  22. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Idea: (Pt3/4) Fleet Commanders Companion [FCC]

    An interesting, if unorthodox plan of attack, and, as always, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. To paraphrase a British quiz show, Hethwill You are the weakest link, Sorry Hethwill, the splitting of your squadron is a major disadvantage, and the destruction of two Half Squadrons is easier than a complete Squadron, it would force the remaining attacking Squadrons to either defend you, or, attempt to carry out the plan without you, assuming, of course, that all Commanders are willing to accept a high risk strategy to do so. "I will not stand by, and, have my ship shot out from under my arse" Captain Ernst Lindemann to Admiral Gunter Lutjens @ 05:55, 24/5/1941. I think defensively I would prefer to fight on a 225*/ 045* axis and try to keep to seaward of the attacking forces with the hope of leading some of them away from the port area (with the Rear Squadron) and keep half of Blue Squadron and White Squadron close to shore with the Van, I would also wish to keep Red Squadron engaged to prevent support, and, if possible, take down the M-brigs giving me the forts to fall back on if things go badly wrong. Denying room to maneuver to the the White Squadron and half of the Blue Squadron limits their options while denying support from the Red Squadron makes their position worse. In any event the battle could still go either way. I think many experienced Battle Commanders in game would consider this to be extremely risky, which, of course, it is, but the defender is only required to deny the circles and run down the clock, the attacker has to take them and also fight through a defence that is trying to keep them as far from their objectives as possible. Cutting the hawsers, and, getting under way, I think, is preferable to attempting to warp ships about their hawsers to open the 'A' arcs for broadsides, weighing anchor is not an option due to time considerations, and, anyway, cutting the Hawsers takes fewer crew, less time, and enables the guns to be manned while getting under way. In principle I think the general idea of the FACS and FCC is sound, it adds depth, and content in a different form to what most players are used to. It is fair to point out that military planning is not a specialised field, anyone with a working knowledge of wind, ships and positioning can do it, they are skills instinctively used in every battle that we fight, the Officers, NCO's and Ratings at the Department of Naval Operations are all serving members in the service, and, are subject to reassignment like everyone else when their tour of duty is up, indeed, assignment to the DNO is often an indicator that Officers are on track for Flag Ranks.
  23. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Useful Marines

    By definition Marines were soldiers, they had no training in matters of working the ship. Their duties aboard were considered 'light' functioning as policemen/guards on the officers quarters, magazines and rum stores, they also provided ceremonial troops when the occasion demanded. In action however their duties differed as they provided marksmen in the rigging, guards on the rum store, shore landing parties or as the support for boarding parties. In time they also became bandsmen, first aiders/stretcher bearers and within the Royal Navy, also gunners, manning 'X' and 'Y' turrets aboard the later cruisers and above. In game, they could indeed influence close quarters fighting, if, marksmen ever get a role in the game. The Royal Marines and their foreign equivalents did have an effect on many battles as they targeted Officers and NCO's which could seriously demoralise an enemy crew and wreck the command structure, in boarding's, with most of the Officer corps dead or injured it would have been very much harder to defend or attack.
  24. Yes, however it could take several hours to get under way, such operations tended to be cutting out missions by small boat at night, which is partly why Aboukir Bay was so unorthodox. I strongly suspect that an enemy fleet would be upon them before they were even half way through raising anchor, if they even tried, as would be quicker to cut the Hawsers. I have always been at a loss as to why the French Admiral elected to remain anchored, the port batteries seem to have been redundant, and most Admirals would have preferred Maneuverability to being a sitting target.
  25. Sir Lancelot Holland

    Idea: (Pt4/4) Old Admiral Ch.1 References

    Hi, I took a look at your 4 part idea, There seems to be several ideas running in parallel. A short back story coupled with orders, A squadron/Flotilla sized tactical unit within a fleet, a form of Janes Fighting Ships with optional links to the history of each ship class, Suggestions for balanced Fleet/ Squadron/Flotilla operations using ships with differing characteristics for flexibility. 1, I liked the back story, it gave me a sense of immersion into a bigger story, It was also fairly typical of a captains meeting aboard the Flagship in the period, such meetings would often involve dinner and or some form of buffet. The use of spies was commonplace, and dressed as priests would be creditable, they tended to travel to places where the average man could not go and raised little comment or suspicion. Orders were and still are phrased specifically, with key words and phrases denoting the urgency of the mission and the degree of autonomy the Captain held or how much co-operation he could expect from Port Admirals. Terminology of the period is not so different as to today, some terms have of course changed meaning over time, for example the term Executive Officer is the US equivalent of the Royal Navy 1st Lieutenant, which is a position that may be held by a Master and Commander/ Lt. Commander on Ships of the Line or a Lt on smaller ships Lt's would be numbered, for example 1st -6th Lt's, according to seniority on the Navy list aboard ship, the earlier their commission date the higher their position aboard ship. 2. Something, like Jane's as an information centre is much needed, Not only for ship ID purposes but also for fleet/ Squadron/Flotilla structure, for example an 8 frigate flotilla could be composed of 4 good upwind sailors and 4 good downwind sailors, or Aggy/ Endy as a combined, balanced, Squadron, 2 half flotilla's in a Flotilla of Aggies and Endies would provide training for potential fleet commanders as well. Overall, I like the ideas as a whole, with a little polish, research, and with the use of good intelligence, balanced fleets sound planning it is a step towards small campaigns, subject to available numbers and ability to carry out them out. With a defined background, Orders from London, orders and missions could be generated at clan level possibly with clans providing needed SOL and Frigate/light ship Squadrons, to create fleets for specific tasks from small raids to PB's, from OW hunting groups to Screening missions.
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