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Fluffy Fishy

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Fluffy Fishy last won the day on June 16

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About Fluffy Fishy

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    Lieutenant
  • Birthday July 19

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  • Location
    : La Arsenale di Venezia
  • Interests
    Venetian History, Maritime History, Martial Arts, Watersports

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  1. Fluffy Fishy

    After battle loot screen

    The thing is ships would rarely ever sink in battle historically, they would slowly sink hours or days after fighting, if at all. The old system had its issues but it was much better than the annoying loot rush we have now days. We already have plenty magic anyway, its a game not a simulator.
  2. Fluffy Fishy

    Pellew - Falmouth Pilot Cutter

    There's a project going on right now where they are remaking a Falmouth Pilot cutter at the Rhonda Mary Shipyard, owned by the Rhonda Mary Trust, a charity which specialises in teaching historic maritime skills to young people in Cornwall, UK. The shipyard is named after the famous ship of the same name, which they built a reconstruction of previously. The whole place is great little project making reconstructions of historic styles of vessels combining both traditional and modern methods of construction. I will leave a link below for anyone wishing to find out more, both the featured vessels are from outside of the NA timeline, with Rhonda Mary being a 1867 speed built trade schooner, whilst Pellew, named after the famous Cornish-man Edward Pellew, who people may be familiar with from their Maritime history and the Pellew sights in the game, is based on the 1852 ship Vincent, one of the best documented and historic of the Falmouth cutters. https://thefalmouthpilotcutter.co.uk/ http://www.rhoda-mary.co.uk/
  3. Fluffy Fishy

    Name 5 things you would like to see in NA

    It somewhat depends on the metallurgy of the nations that cast them at the time, where a lot of nations didn't have particularly advanced bronze smelting techniques because of its price, being around 5-10x as costly (depending on the period), although it was almost indefinitely recyclable. Good quality bronze was excellent for casting guns out of, but poor quality or the wrong mix of alloy makes somewhat mediocre cannons, for example the Ottoman guns at Lepanto were mostly made of melted down ingots from confiscated catholic church bells which were made of quite a spongy alloy so to reverberate sound well in call for mass rather than decent quality stuff used most commonly on land as a preferred material by men such as Napoleon because of its great characteristics when cast properly. On the whole bronze is a far superior material to cast artillery from, it doesn't rust, is less easily distorted and brittle, it also creates less friction which makes the guns longer range, with more stopping power and accuracy, whilst also having a far lower risk of exploding upon firing, something that was slight always a worry to artillery teams of the period, it would distort rather than break open, so had less chance of killing/wounding its crew, and when it did break it could just be recast. Another benefit to bronze is it cools much quicker, which means it can be used for longer periods of sustained fire, while iron guns need to be cooled somehow, either by waiting or with water (which could create fissures due to extreme changes in heat leading to detonation). Bronze cannons were also notably lighter, despite bronze being on the whole about 20% denser as a material increasing its weight, its better structure and resistance to heat and strain meant the guns were cast notably thinner whilst retaining values as good as, if not better than similar iron guns, see the table below. I'd really like to see them in the game, but i would worry it would create a bit of a meta, although its massively increased price should be reflected and make it far more risky to arm ships with. The main limiting factor of bronze is easily its cost and improvements in iron casting technology meant that the gap between iron and bronze guns gradually shrank over time to the point where superior bronze guns were less favourable when compared with being able to supply with more iron guns in total despite the noticeable quality difference between the two during the game's period.
  4. Fluffy Fishy

    Name 5 things you would like to see in NA

    I'd personally just like to see more ships and some minor customisation features for the ships, like naming, paints, sails and figureheads ect. A more diverse selection of ships in general from different nations trying to highlight their historical strengths and weaknesses of their design and construction doctrines, especially around the 3rd and 4th rate areas. Oh and it would be cool to get a more diverse selection of cannons like the french howitzers and the option to fit your ship with more costly bronze guns, things like that
  5. Fluffy Fishy

    L'Ocean thickness Meta

    The Russian artillery funt is roughly 494g, where as the French livre is 489g, compared to the British pound which is 453g, while the Spanish libre is 459g. Here is a table showing how they compare in terms of modern kg: Common NA lb British (453g) French (489g) Russian (494g) 6 2.718 2.934 2.964 9 4.077 4.401 4.446 12 5.436 5.868 5.928 18 8.154 8.802 8.892 24 10.872 11.736 11.856 32 14.496 15.648 15.808 36 16.308 17.604 17.784 42 19.026 20.538 20.748 64 28.992 31.296 31.616 Its worth remembering though that the 36s in game are based on the French 36s, where the 42lb cannons are based on the British 42s.
  6. Fluffy Fishy

    L'Ocean thickness Meta

    Nerf thickness in general, make structure and firepower the true might of 1st rates as it should be. Also taking away the 42lbs from Santi and Ocean and Bucentaure for 36s would be a good move too.
  7. Here is a nice video looking at the Venetian arsenal, it only really goes into the basics and doesn't really cover the period after Lepanto but its still a really nice introduction to the facility. Also it is a little misleading at the end where it downplays the complexes importance into the 19th century. Enjoy
  8. Fluffy Fishy

    Stern rake and damage model

    What structure are you damaging? The reason you take more structure damage form when the sides are depleted is because that's where the knees are, the thin pillars in the ship aren't really there for major structural integrity they are mostly to limit hogging but aren't properly load bearing, they just stiffen the ship while large cross beams distribute the weight of the decks into the frame. If the vertical supports are destroyed they wouldn't lead to many issues beyond a bit of sagging, but there is little to no damage done to the cross beams or knees from a rake, the masts also tend to offer support for the deck areas too, which are too thick to do serious damage to low down. The main issue of rakes is they bounce about and ricochet inside the ship, losing meaningful stopping power that is able to as they do but doing considerable damage to crew and guns, as is reflected in the game fairly well. A rake simply doesn't have the stopping power to significantly damage the arrangement of structure lengthways down the ship, even when its a 1st attacking a 5th.
  9. Fluffy Fishy

    Ocean is still to Tanky

    You seem rather upset with the things I have said, so I will take some time to clarify them and explain to you why I said them, there's no need to get emotional about the points I have made or claim pretty much everything I have said is complete bullshit, which frankly isn't true. I hadn't really wished to go into great detail why because its not overly relevant to the discussion and reality is that gameplay comes first, but even then you have to consider the compromises made and how the game is. Firstly Victory isn't just made of any old oak, she was made from the finest select oak from the Weald, where heavy clay soil makes a much slower growing, denser and tougher timber than typical European white oak, which when compared to the typical woods used in Havana makes it more damage resistant than Cuban Teak, but not quite as strong as the Mahogany available on the island. Looking more at detail, teak is held in high esteem due to the species that are grown in Asia, which is a much better wood type than its American cousin, although it still retains similar rot resistance characteristics with exposure to sea water. Cuban Mahogany on the other hand is harder and denser than English Oak, but also less resistant to rupturing under weight. You can compare the three woods here, but do bear in mind local growing conditions. http://www.wood-database.com/english-oak/ http://www.wood-database.com/cuban-mahogany/ http://www.wood-database.com/teak/ The differences between English Oak and the Teak and Mahogany of Victory and Santissima aren't enough to make up the dramatic difference in structural thickness, Victory being built 2ft thick at the waterline, whilst Santissima is roughly 1.6ft thick, a difference of almost 25%, something that not only wouldn't be made up for by wood types but realistically should reflect in the game when changing the wood of the ships being built, meaning a typical Oak built Santissima will always be flimsier than an Oak built Victory, something that goes through all woods. Secondly, Victory has very little influence taken from Princessa, while Slade drew inspiration from all kinds of prominent ships and captures Victory is almost identical to HMS Valiant, a previous design by Slade. HMS Valiant is a 74 gun ship who's lines are taken from HMS Invincible (l'Invincible) another 74, a capture from the French navy during the war for Austrian succession. While there are a couple of minor differences comparing the hull lines of the two gives a staggering resemblance, with minor structural changes because you can't just scale ships up and down and still retain good characteristics, this is also largely why Victory behaved much more like a 3rd rate than its typical contemporary 1sts, thus the reasoning behind making her agile. Looking further into the comment where I said about British ships being stronger than French, in turn being stronger than Spanish ships this is mainly a doctrinal thing, it by no means makes Spanish ships bad ships. The Spanish simply chose sailing characteristics over toughness, which is partly due to natural geography with good ship building timber being more scarce in Iberia than Britain and France but also due to things like the vast expanse of their colonial empire, Spanish ships tended to be much better cruisers than British ships, able to complete journeys in better time and also being somewhat more weatherly. So referring to your point on consideration of Spanish ships being the finest in the world, it depends entirely on what parameters you judge them by, in terms of sailing, definitely. Turning back to wood Its also important to remember Southern European Oak being a little lighter and weaker than Northern European Oak, which combined with the more limited supply is the reasoning behind the magnificence of the naval facilities in Havana and their use of tropical woods. Moving on from history and going back to gameplay, it would be incredibly unbalanced to give Santissima the most tankiness, not only is it ahistorical because of its much thinner hull, but you would end up with a ship that's not only faster but also heavier armed and heavier armoured which necessarily creates a ridiculous Wasa style meta in first rates much worse than the current Ocean issues. Either way I do hope Santissima gets a nicer design at some point, currently Santissima model is just an ugly red brick which is a shame because she is such an iconic ship but then I suppose the in game appearance reflects that rather inaccurate replica in Alicante.
  10. Fluffy Fishy

    What is this?

    Because it wasn't particularly necessary to put them particularly high, similarly to conditions below decks knees and beams often meant sailors had to be careful when moving about, but at the same time designs had to allow crewmen to move about with relative ease. Beams being low enough to hit your head on aren't a major disturbance if you know they are there and crewmen would just have to duck under them, as a sailor you would only make the mistake of bumping your head and being laughed at by the more experienced crewmen a couple of times before you learnt not to. It just depends on how generous or compact the design of the ship is and humans have a great ability to process danger in the subconscious and seen in peripheral vision especially if its a setting they know well, such as a ship they are going a long period of time stationed on. You could say the exact same thing about something like the boom, even on on modern pleasure yachts, at least crossbeams aren't live parts. If you get caught by a boom you can easily get knocked out, overboard or even killed even despite modern health and safety laws.
  11. Fluffy Fishy

    What is this?

    The Beams are just a way to offer cross structural strength, which improves sailing characteristics and resistance to damage. A lot of larger ships had these beams but they should be around head height or above though so crewmen can move around them with relative ease which fits with the cannons and other modelled features of the ship without much scaling issues, so as Batman says its just the capstan is unusually sized and should probably be adjusted to somewhere around 1/2 to 2/3s its current size.
  12. Fluffy Fishy

    Ocean is still to Tanky

    A lot of first rates carried 68lb Carronades on their weather decks, its not even the largest guns ships equipped either, with some of the Turkish first rates commonly mounting short 300-500lb guns (because why not). Victory is a lot better design than Santissima though, mainly due to the brilliance of Slade which reflects how she behaved in the water and why she is commonly considered the best 1st rate of the 18th century. Its also important to remember Victory removed her 42lb guns in 1803 to improve handling and get a better rate of fire. What isn't really represented is that Victory should be more tanky in general. British Ships are almost always tougher than their French equivalents, who are in turn tougher themselves than comparing Spanish ships, while I can't comment too deeply on L'Ocean, Santissima had a notably thinner structure than Victory. As a General rule looking at the 3 options I'd personally go: Victory: Tanky and Agile, able to equip 42s but at cost to speed and manouverability. Santissima: Fast in a straight line, packs a huge wallop but somewhat poor comparative structure and poor turn, able to equip 36s. L'Ocean: A kind of middle ground, although her huge nature should be taken into account, able to equip 36s.
  13. Fluffy Fishy

    Ocean is still to Tanky

    That leaves you in a weird place where things like grape can be more penetrative from a large gun than ball is from a smaller gun, why should grapeshot from a 24lb penetrate a 1st rate but ball shot from a 9 not? There's no logic to that due to the way force dissipates between the smaller projectiles. If you were going for a more realistic approach a 6 would be quite hit and miss, but 9 would be fine, although it would do minimal structural damage.
  14. Fluffy Fishy

    Ocean is still to Tanky

    You make the same mistake as the devs in my oppinion. You think 1st rates should be balanced with other first rates. This is exactly why oceans are meta and 2nd rates and 3rd rates are useless. 18 pounders and 12 pounders should be able to pen any ship at 300 meters with a perfect angle. This is not the case. The devs said a 9 pounder would be able to pen anything at 250m when they nerfed them last time. 9 pounders are useless even against carthagena frigates with a 10-20% angle at 200m.... I'm a bit late to the conversation but why should that actually matter, Constitution has very similar hull thickness to Victory historically, both at around 2ft at the waterline which as far as I understand is give or take a few cm the same as l'Ocean. Why should an 18 long have no issue penetrating constitution but not Ocean? While History shouldn't be the be all and end all of balance it does beg some questions, especially with the current relationship between structure and thickness, an 18lb gun shouldn't struggle the way it does at such close range.
  15. Rather than type it all out methodically I have taken a couple of pictures for you. From British Warships in the Age of Sail 1793-1817: From British Warships in the Age of Sail 1817-1863: Enjoy
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