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(PVP2-US) Political Situation - Edit* No clan size restrictions - need more Diplo Info Please


El Capitano

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21 minutes ago, Axel said:

Unless I am mistaken the French aren't really getting involved at all. I think mainly theyre just getting help from both of the sides. I could be mistaken however.

Their not in the war directly but they are in the middle of it and this little war has caused setbacks on the original plan for the Antilles.

 

10 minutes ago, Neverdead Ned said:

Windwards

That was the original plan before pirates  went in and took it even after being informed of the plan since Castries had to be discussed. Then bed benny starting a ruckus. I am going back tonight or tomorrow discussing it with other leaders of GB but I dont see it being an issue handing it over since it was what was originally planned. 

Edited by PolishMartyr
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I know pretty much all of the Dutch players wont agree with me because the US have at least been decent allies to them so im not going to even comment on what regions the french could have back. I however do think that Dutch-French-Swede and Dane-French-Swede or some combination of that would probably be the best way to give the Antilles some sort of pause on this constant warfare. At the same time though that does mean having to sail a fair distance to PvP with some of the other nations and some people may not wish to do that when they could just stay at home and PvP

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19 minutes ago, Axel said:

I know pretty much all of the Dutch players wont agree with me because the US have at least been decent allies to them so im not going to even comment on what regions the french could have back. I however do think that Dutch-French-Swede and Dane-French-Swede or some combination of that would probably be the best way to give the Antilles some sort of pause on this constant warfare. At the same time though that does mean having to sail a fair distance to PvP with some of the other nations and some people may not wish to do that when they could just stay at home and PvP

We are going to be discussing this soon. Hopefully bringing fresh ideas to this will help.

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48 minutes ago, Axel said:

I know pretty much all of the Dutch players wont agree with me because the US have at least been decent allies to them so im not going to even comment on what regions the french could have back. I however do think that Dutch-French-Swede and Dane-French-Swede or some combination of that would probably be the best way to give the Antilles some sort of pause on this constant warfare. At the same time though that does mean having to sail a fair distance to PvP with some of the other nations and some people may not wish to do that when they could just stay at home and PvP

However PVP doesn't have to generate enough hostility for a port battle but it seems that every time hostility creeps above 10% or so, we all assume someone is making a play for our port and respond in kind. The nations you mentioned could remain nonaligned or at war, still PVP, but not necessarily go after each other's ports 2 or 3 times a week.

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9 minutes ago, Farrago said:

However PVP doesn't have to generate enough hostility for a port battle but it seems that every time hostility creeps above 10% or so, we all assume someone is making a play for our port and respond in kind. The nations you mentioned could remain nonaligned or at war, still PVP, but not necessarily go after each other's ports 2 or 3 times a week.

Never expect to have full stability in the region. At least have it set up where things can be placed in check. 

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14 minutes ago, Neverdead Ned said:

No nation should have stability on a PvP server but it should have  enough minimum regions to keep people from wanting to migrate to other nations or quitting the game entirely.

Exactly what I meant. Hard to describe that situation. Organized chaos? Anyhow, stability within the confine of the games build.

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1 hour ago, Neverdead Ned said:

Perhaps the French can have the Windwards, Trinidad, and Orinoco?  I understand the Pirates may be willing to give St Lucie/Castries up to the French or Swedes once we secure another silver source but it's going to stay off limits to the greedy Dutch, US, and Brits.

Trinidad is our only spanish hunter bonus, thats pretty much a no. And orinoco is our mahogany and strong hull region. If they touch those. we will kill them. Its like your silver port. Perhaps we should shy away from suggesting ports to give away from other nations to other nations for now. Or some radicals might see that suggestion and take up arms against the pirates in our nation that are capable of triggering PBs very quickly. 

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Here is my Experience, and Axel can attest to this as both of us are ex-Swede. Where ever Badbenny goes, sorrow awaits the nation he chooses.

When he leaves Sweden, which he may never do. I'll go back, but I can't be near that hate spurging, slur yelling human being.

 

When it comes to France, they just need an active playerbase again, or rather, a playerbase that all thinks alike and communicates, ever since PURGE, LMN, and OMG left or went to PvP 1, France has never been the same.

When it comes to the Dutch, they had a small playerbase. Pirates complained about how the US and Brits were zerging everyone. So a US clan decides to join the Dutch. Low and behold, apparently the Dutch are now a Zerg force. Wow.

 

Edited by Teutonic
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49 minutes ago, OneEyedSnake said:

Trinidad is our only spanish hunter bonus, thats pretty much a no. And orinoco is our mahogany and strong hull region. If they touch those. we will kill them.

So in other words, no the Dutch have no intentions of giving any territory.  You guys sound like the US.

Its like your silver port - No it's not, we have the intentions of giving it back to the French or the Swedes when we secure another source.

Perhaps we should shy away from suggesting ports to give away from other nations to other nations for now. Or some radicals might see that suggestion and take up arms against the pirates in our nation that are capable of triggering PBs very quickly.   

First off, you have absolutely no control over what some of your outliers do.  Secondly, we don't take threats lightly.

 

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17 hours ago, koltes said:

It would not have been this situation at all if you were to get into alliance with Danes and Swedes. Danes would have North, Swedes North East, French South East and Dutch South. These territories have enough resources to share among 4 nations via 4 way circle alliance. Then, should have GB or US start bullying you, you would have had 2 nations to show up in your PBs, with pirates screening all over the map. But no, you decided that GB/US alliance wasn't enough to kill the server so you have joined them.
I bet US are laughing right now at how you are taking the heat off them and all of a sudden fighting THEIR war. Well done you!

You reap what you sow.

I will just leave this right here for you to ponder over. The reason it did not go thru is because of actions by the rogue Swedes.


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4 hours ago, PolishMartyr said:

Feel the French are getting worse end of the stick right now with this war for the Antilles. Going to be trying a few things to change that.

The Dutch are still working to help rebuild the French, and I do not expect any of my Dutchmates will be in favor of attacking anywhere the French own.


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3 hours ago, Farrago said:

Basically as long as you have 3 or 4 Swedish players deciding who is at war and where there will be battles, there is going to be chaos. The Dutch are trying to help the French.

Indeed...

Edited by van der Decken
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Yes, the French are suffering for what is really a Dutch to Swedes feud - or more correctly a Dutch to two specific Swedes feud.  The Dutch took our regions to stop the Swedes using them (although I don't think taking them stopped the Swedes from buying War Supply materials).

The French don't need a lot to be productive.  Really just a crafting region.  The two current French regions don't have any crafting bonuses.  The USA took out two main crafting regions.  Texas (Strong Hull) and Louisiana (French Refit).

Several players/nations have donated to the French - The Dutch and the Pirates.  Both have given a considerable number of ships, materials, crafting help, etc.  So please give those folks credit for assisting to help us rebuild.

There are 8 French players in SINK - but all are relatively junior.  250, 350, 650 crew levels, and me with 1100 crew.   There are a couple more French players other - and a few Alts voting in the wrong direction...

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21 minutes ago, Neverdead Ned said:

So in other words, no the Dutch have no intentions of giving any territory.  You guys sound like the US.

We gave Sweden Bovenwinds at the same time the Brits gave them Leeward. Try again. And when we were working on the Swede/French/Dutch Antilles Treaty, the rogue Swedes and their alliances wrecked it.

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1 hour ago, Neverdead Ned said:

 

what other regions that we own give us mahogany? Especially so close. The pirates want their home regions, we want ours. Its the same thing Stroop. The regions on and around butterfly were agreed to give back, but only once we were secured and not threatened. You do not know the politics of the Dutch nation any more, and as such do not talk like you do. We wouldnt even mind a french swede dutch dane alliance if it were to truly mean peace and security in terms of not getting wiped. However it doesnt. And let me ask you the last time our rogue players raised hostility in the castries, let alone trigger 3 port battles in two days. They havent in a while and didnt. So dont play all high knowing here this time, the situation with the swedes is different. Their rogue clan of 5 has triggered about 12 port battles. We want to keep our ports secured. I am sorry that france allied with the swedes, that is not my problem only theirs. it is however our problem to deal with if they ever act on that alliance again. Security is everything. We have little faith in agreements that say dont put anyone down to such and such ports or take these regions. Instead we have faith in standing strong and keeping those regions through pvp in a pvp server. If the pirates ever attack our regions we will turn on them with our full force. Just as we would expect you to do the same. This isnt just some Dutch thing. And after being dutch for a while stroop you know that our regions are valuable and we dont have a lot, not nearly like the US or GB, each region gives us something valuable that we need. So dont play like you dont understand that. Which is why we have sympathized with the pirates because we know that struggle, which is why we havent triggered Castries. We could care less about your threat on us if we do at this point. Its more of a materials thing. We get it. we have the same issue if we lose any of these southern ports. 

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I think these roundtable discussions are amusing.  Let's help the French, let's help the French.  Can't remember how many times in the last year I've heard that shortly before all our assets were wiped out.  They should just reset the map every 3 months and let all you self-proclaimed kings re-choose your faction and start over.  It would save a lot of time on the backstabbing and lies and allow players to just play the game.

And Chailang screw you with your viva la france.  You're no different, I remember last year's overrun.

Edited by Jean Ribault
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10 hours ago, van der Decken said:

We're not in an alliance.

Until next week?

10 hours ago, PolishMartyr said:

Great Britain doesnt want you back either. Vote took me by surprise and couldnt get the other leaders together.

Sadly not all brits think this as it looks like it will be back next week.  Just by the grid votes so far the super alliance will be back.

10 hours ago, Neverdead Ned said:

Grats guys on knocking the bully alliance back.  Keep up the good work! ....next, sinking some US ships at Ponce! :)

Both Pounce and now San Domingo are going to be in US/Brit prime time not Dans.  Not sure how many they will pull, but it won't be what they will pull with there alliance and that means US/Brits are jumping into a fight that doesn't involved them and going to once more take more regions and not help any of the small nations. I include Danes as a small nation and think the little skirm between them and Dutch help.  It's ports that can just be handed back and forth and not truly needed.   Dans aren't pushing south to conquer any of the Dutch regions.  This is why we didn't see them show to the port that Badbenny guys flipped down there.  Just helping Swede and prob France if they flip one of the local regions.   It would be Nice if the US and Brits fight each other since they have so many players that would be a nice looking equal size port battles.  Though even Brits would be hard press against US alone cause it can and has fielded 25 players in most time zones while no one else could do that.

8 hours ago, Axel said:

If someone can bring the Swedes to the table to make an actual agreement without having Benny back out immediately please do. On that day there can be peace between the Antilles nations until then there cant really be any sort of working together. I personally would like to not be allied to the largest nations in the server but if we need to defend ports from numbers larger than ours and screeners we should be able to have one as an ally. Or are the Dutch not allowed an alliance except to Spain? I am all for an alliance between Sweden, France, the Dutch and maybe even the Danes but thats not possible from the players in the nations (not just Sweden) currently as I see it.

If you can't fight off 4 players than something wrong.  All you need is to have some guys for both the main time zones.  Dan won't show up to any of the battles down south that Benny and his buddies flip.  Pirates have pretty much said we won't screen those either.  Pretty much anything south of Castries we aren't getting involved with other than maybe Windward.  If some one will let France have it.  What folks can't get in there head is you will never get every one to agree on the same thing.  Even in Pirates BLACK does not speak for all Pirates and we  can only make agreements for our clan.  So you have a few bad apples out therein Swedes that bug you.  Just keep showing up with decent numbers and get your free ship/paint chest and some PvP in.   If you can't handle that than you would never make it on a high pop server which hopefully will happen after release or just think if we merged with PvP1?   Your little ports will not be yours any more.  They will constantly be attacked and on all fronts and all hours.

Instead of picking up US or even brits every time go pick up Spain and help them out.  They will never get any regions if no one helps them them or tries to give them a region.  We really need to shack this server up again and make some changes.  To many of the old timers are set in there way and that makes for a boreing game.  Honestly think they should reset resources when they do the ship update and maybe even the regions.  Gives folks a reason to fight over certian resources if they don't have stacks and stacks of them saved up from the last year of game play.

7 hours ago, PolishMartyr said:

Feel the French are getting worse end of the stick right now with this war for the Antilles. Going to be trying a few things to change that.

Let them flip Windward and not show up.  That was exactly what we where going to do with them when we took it.  They just needed the time for the cool down to come over and flip it, but brits rushed over and flipped it instead.  If ya'll stop freaking out you will find out when we do take some regions that we don't want we are doing it to give to the little guys.  The problem is US/BRits won't give ports to any of the little guys.  Some one should give the Spanish hunter region next to spain back to them and maybe the old pirate shallows south.  We didn't want to keep those and was trying to let spain know to take them until brit took them.   To many folks just want to take dots and not help the status and health of this server.  

So ya'll take Dans Pounce and San Damingo?  What will be next you take there last region?   Danes made it very clear they aren't trying to take any regiosn so US  and Brits are safe even dutch.  Do you keep pushing and take the rest of the Swede and French.  Once they are done who you turn on next.  The Dutch?  They will be the only ones with ports/Regions.  I bet you if it goes long each one of you will turn on them?  

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4 hours ago, van der Decken said:

We gave Sweden Bovenwinds at the same time the Brits gave them Leeward. Try again. And when we were working on the Swede/French/Dutch Antilles Treaty, the rogue Swedes and their alliances wrecked it.

Yah but as soon as badbenny attacks you you take them back.   That isn't helping any one. Ya'll have the numbers to fight off two rogue swedes don't ya'll?  Your showing your true intentions as soon as you take something back that you gave some one.   How about ya'll keep below windward and out of others affairs and worry about your own regonis?   

7 hours ago, PolishMartyr said:

That was the original plan before pirates  went in and took it even after being informed of the plan since Castries had to be discussed. Then bed benny starting a ruckus. I am going back tonight or tomorrow discussing it with other leaders of GB but I dont see it being an issue handing it over since it was what was originally planned. 

You mean the dutch?   We flipped it cause the Dutch started to run agro up on it and we don't want the dutch right next to castries when they have a few rogue players that wants to take Castries from us.  You know like Swedes have a few rogue players.  We ignore them and counter grind the agro down and hunt them down.   We don't go to war with the rest of Dutch cause we know it's not them doing the grind.   The word we heard wasn't that you where going to give it to the France but instead the Brit/Dutch wanted it to flip back and forth for PvP.  Well you want that go do it where your other side meets.  Fight over that region.  For now we don't feel safe having Dutch right on the back door of our silver production when many have made it very clear they want castries for them selves.    We will give it back to France once we are given our silver port back or one that is equal to it.   But US will never give us back Little Harbor cause they get Pirate refit out of it.  Just like they prob won't give Texas or La back to the french.   They don't give ports back they have never done so and I expect they will never do so.

5 hours ago, OneEyedSnake said:

You have had your alt at the PBs calling the danes a weaker nation is just a blatant lie.

One level 3 alt that I'm letting every one know is my alt cause every one think all the Dans are pirate alt.  In each of those battles you might seen one or two Pirates alts on either Dan or Swede side.   We have most our alts in other nations cause of Econ.  My only other alt use to be Spain and now he's Pirate.  He's my shallow water Pirate while I keep Sir Texas to deep water activity.  You just don't get it.  Those are all the Dans in the whole nation pretty much.  Right now Dans and Dutch I would say are pretty well balanced the only problem is Dans are SEA time zones and Dutch are more US time zone.   Just think what an alliance between those would do to say US or Brits, but it will never happen unless you get your little fingers out of that region and let Swedes and France get some ports/regions.  Than an alliance will happen and it will never happen as long as you keep riding and running back to US coat tails.  

And speaking of alts we know many others have alts and while they might not use them in fights we know for sure you use them for votes.  This isn't a pirate only thing, every nation has them.  Like the Devs said, every nation had it's spy's and traitors just like in real life.

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4 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

Yes, the French are suffering for what is really a Dutch to Swedes feud - or more correctly a Dutch to two specific Swedes feud.  The Dutch took our regions to stop the Swedes using them (although I don't think taking them stopped the Swedes from buying War Supply materials).

The French don't need a lot to be productive.  Really just a crafting region.  The two current French regions don't have any crafting bonuses.  The USA took out two main crafting regions.  Texas (Strong Hull) and Louisiana (French Refit).

Several players/nations have donated to the French - The Dutch and the Pirates.  Both have given a considerable number of ships, materials, crafting help, etc.  So please give those folks credit for assisting to help us rebuild.

There are 8 French players in SINK - but all are relatively junior.  250, 350, 650 crew levels, and me with 1100 crew.   There are a couple more French players other - and a few Alts voting in the wrong direction...

If you can get your guys to grind Windward we will see if we can get the rogue pirates that keep putting agro on it to back off and give ya'll safe passage for doing it.   As long as the brits can agree upon this.  

Cause I'll be honest with you US is never going to give you Texas and LA back.   Any one notice there is never any one from US in here talking and they are the largest nation.

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9 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

You mean the dutch?   We flipped it cause the Dutch started to run agro up on it and we don't want the dutch right next to castries when they have a few rogue players that wants to take Castries from us.  You know like Swedes have a few rogue players.  We ignore them and counter grind the agro down and hunt them down.   We don't go to war with the rest of Dutch cause we know it's not them doing the grind.   The word we heard wasn't that you where going to give it to the France but instead the Brit/Dutch wanted it to flip back and forth for PvP.  Well you want that go do it where your other side meets.  Fight over that region.  For now we don't feel safe having Dutch right on the back door of our silver production when many have made it very clear they want castries for them selves.    We will give it back to France once we are given our silver port back or one that is equal to it.   But US will never give us back Little Harbor cause they get Pirate refit out of it.  Just like they prob won't give Texas or La back to the french.   They don't give ports back they have never done so and I expect they will never do so.

 

as i asked Stroop. when was the last time our rogues even tried to raise hostility? we got them under control. unlike sweden. not to mention they never triggered any PBs. benny has triggered 12.

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3 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

If you can get your guys to grind Windward we will see if we can get the rogue pirates that keep putting agro on it to back off and give ya'll safe passage for doing it.   As long as the brits can agree upon this.  

Cause I'll be honest with you US is never going to give you Texas and LA back.   Any one notice there is never any one from US in here talking and they are the largest nation.

Elric, join us in the meeting on the 29th, that is a discussion topic. The american regions are not out of reach for you, and we have great sway with a good amount of the US. 

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Caught me in mid-reply. :D

8 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Yah but as soon as badbenny attacks you you take them back.   That isn't helping any one. Ya'll have the numbers to fight off two rogue swedes don't ya'll?  Your showing your true intentions as soon as you take something back that you gave some one.   How about ya'll keep below windward and out of others affairs and worry about your own regions?   

I agree it was counter productive. It is just Dutch politics. It is spastic at the slightest change.

10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The word we heard wasn't that you where going to give it to the France but instead the Brit/Dutch wanted it to flip back and forth for PvP. 

There were multiple ownership concepts brought up one of which was that. After seeing the French would not be having a national refit of any sort it was accepted that Windward would go to them. The next day it was agreed upon, Pirates. Nothing I could do to halt the re-capturing of Windward then. 

 

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