jodgi

Ship Speeds - Testing and Discussion

387 posts in this topic

Now, we're expecting ships built out of fir the be the fastest (but most fragile) followed by the "vanilla" oak/teak builds and ends up with the slow and tanky liveoak ships. Each of the wood types are divided into the quality color system we've grown accustomed to, so there are quite a few variables. I was wrong. Fir is grey, oak and teak are green and live oak is blue.

I always want to know "what?" and "how much?", so I've started taking notes of max speeds of the frigs I've bought and captured. I leave out those with speed mods, because they would obviously ruin everything.

I point my bow half a notch below broad reach because many ships have their absolute max speed at that setting and not pure 45deg broadreach. The ships are fitted with long guns all around, simply because that's the most sensible PVP setup, like so:

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Keep in mind planking and reinforced masts weigh and slow you down so those can't be used either. The speed test has to be recorded before taking any damage as that greatly affects speed.

Grey fir:

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Blue Live Oak:

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Temporary note:

?!

I have a green teak ship lying around and will get to that, but I already have many questions. What does the quality do? Does it strengthen the wood's main character or all? Is blue live oak both stronger and faster than grey live oak?

I desperately want to test a blue fir ship, but haven't seen a single one (Duh! Idjiit). I have gold so if you crafters are sitting on one, let me know.

Anyone is welcome to contribute with testing, ofcourse.

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In my experience Live Oak is always shown with blue color. Oak is always green and so is teak. Fir is always grey. 

 

- This is definitely interesting though. I had a 74 made from fir before and i'm now sailing a live oak one. The live Oak one definitely feels more durable and is not lit on fire near as much and it also feels more sluggish. But your SS seems to prove otherwise. 

- Can you make the same test but this time go 90 degrees to the wind? Maybe there is a difference when going upwind? :S

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Are you sure something else isn't at play with your screenshots.  Something is definitely up, because I had a teak frigate with rigging quality and it was going 15.6.  Though I think I was armed with carronades.

 

I do know that a Privateer with Gold Speed and Live Oak goes the normal default speed.

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In my experience Live Oak is always shown with blue color. Oak is always green and so is teak. Fir is always grey...

Ahah! Thanks for that.

...it also feels more sluggish. But your SS seems to prove otherwise...

Actually no, it only shows top speed. I can't say anything for accel and "mobility".

- Can you make the same test but this time go 90 degrees to the wind? Maybe there is a difference when going upwind?...

I did for the live oak ship but not for the fir one. I will grab another fir one and take down the numbers.

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Are you sure something else isn't at play with your screenshots.  Something is definitely up, because I had a teak frigate with rigging quality and it was going 15.6.  Though I think I was armed with carronades.

 

I do know that a Privateer with Gold Speed and Live Oak goes the normal default speed.

I kinda hope something is up, but what?

I know going all carro instead of longs will lighten a ship of that size up enough to give roughly 0.5 knots, so the math makes sense with your 15.6.

I haven't seen any reports of what golden built in speed does compared to the mod you slap on.

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Actually no, it only shows top speed. I can't say anything for accel and "mobility".

Good point. Maybe the difference lies in Accelerations and mobility. 

- To check accelerations we'd need a ship without mods that affect speed in any way nor have lightweight ropes and blocks/rigging quality. 

- To check mobility i guess we'd need a ship without mods that affect speed/turning/acceleration in any way. 

 

I might have some 74's that fulfill those criteria. But i only have live oak 74's so i'd need to capture a fir one that fulfill's the criteria as well.'

 

Jodgi how would i test this? I'd love to help but i'm not sure how i would go about with the test's. If you can write down some steps i'll be happy to perform some of the test's. :)

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Regardless of whether the buffs or nerfs are actually added (it looks like they arnt working yet), i think that the color coding of the different woods is misleading.

 

Perhaps the wood types should just be white as each wood choice has its own pros and cons.

 

Especially frustrating is the likelihood of live oak to make a fine ship with better buffs when id like a teak ship to get the same likelihood of high tier buffs. 

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Especially frustrating is the likelihood of live oak to make a fine ship with better buffs when id like a teak ship to get the same likelihood of high tier buffs. 

 

 

I don't think that is the case.  I've crafted 3 frigates now, all with live oak, and so far I've had gray quality inbuilt upgrades in 2 frigates (basic) and no inbuilt upgrades in another frigate (common).

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Find me a fine fir ship - lowest crafting level, no notes - that doesn't have 1 perm and 2 upgrade slots to make up for being grey level

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Find me a fine fir ship - lowest crafting level, no notes - that doesn't have 1 perm and 2 upgrade slots to make up for being grey level

 

 

That is because the gray fir is built into the quality level.  The quality of the ship doesn't really matter if it is a fir ship with all fine or gold upgrades.  I had a frigate with live oak and 2 basic upgrades count as basic, while a frigate with live oak and no upgrades counted as common.  The common ship in this case is worse than the basic ship and between the two the basic ship would have been preferred.

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If there's no drawbacks on speed I'm going to build everything out of Live Oak from now on....

 

I'm guessing it is just a bug or not fully implemented yet.

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...Jodgi how would i test this? I'd love to help but i'm not sure how i would go about with the test's. If you can write down some steps i'll be happy to perform some of the test's. :)

When collecting numbers for my speedprofiles, to be used in future reviews, I have thought about what tests we can do as some sort of standardized mobility tests.

So far these are my suggestions:

Time elapsed for a full 360 degree turn:

Speed bleed from broad reach to broad reach (note down speed before turn commences and note down speed when passing broad reach):

Beam reach acceleration (from 0 to 8 knots):

Those three numbers say something about the handling of the ships, especially when you look at them combined. I would love to do turn radius also, but that would require some console output access I don't have or understand. In any case it would be really involved.

Maybe others have ideas for standardized tests we could do?

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Live oak should give a small fixed penalty to speed. Will investigate.

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Live oak should give a small fixed penalty to speed. Will investigate.

Maybe the current penalty is there but it's so small the rounding of the display eats it up? fir: 14.94, live oak: 14.86?

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Just to point something out:

Fir (actually pine) construction didn't provide a speed boost across the board. Fir-built Ledas were no faster than their oaken and teak sisters. They were stiffer, though.

Lighter timber will make the same hull float higher in the water, giving you a better sail area-to-displacement ratio. That's great on paper, but many British (and presumably Spanish and American) designs were meant to be sailed deep, packed full if stores and powered through bad weather. The highly successful Lively-class, for instance, saw weatherliness and other qualities suffered considerably when too many stores were consumed.

There's no need to go full realism here, but ideally timber would be balanced by availability. Live oak should eventually make pre-patch iron look abundant.

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Just to point something out:

Fir (actually pine) construction didn't provide a speed boost across the board. Fir-built Ledas were no faster than their oaken and teak sisters. They were stiffer, though.

Lighter timber will make the same hull float higher in the water, giving you a better sail area-to-displacement ratio. That's great on paper, but many British (and presumably Spanish and American) designs were meant to be sailed deep, packed full if stores and powered through bad weather. The highly successful Lively-class, for instance, saw weatherliness and other qualities suffered considerably when too many stores were consumed.

There's no need to go full realism here, but ideally timber would be balanced by availability. Live oak should eventually make pre-patch iron look abundant.

I think you have something here. I thought the reasons behind the use of pine (and teak as in Trincomalee) was the cost and scarcity of oak at least for the British shipbuilders. Also AFAIK pine was used on the Great Lakes in the building race because you could build faster with it or use it unseasoned (with the resulting shortened life span).

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I think you have something here. I thought the reasons behind the use of pine (and teak as in Trincomalee) was the cost and scarcity of oak at least for the British shipbuilders. Also AFAIK pine was used on the Great Lakes in the building race because you could build faster with it or use it unseasoned (with the resulting shortened life span).

 

 

That would be interesting if working with Live Oak took more labor hours and Pine/Fir took less.

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So why would it take longer to build out of live oak vs regular oak? I understand that Live oak is more durable but I can't imagine that working it is that much more difficult. Working with Teak on the other hand is painful. Teak wears out saw blades in no time at all.

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So why would it take longer to build out of live oak vs regular oak? I understand that Live oak is more durable but I can't imagine that working it is that much more difficult. Working with Teak on the other hand is painful. Teak wears out saw blades in no time at all.

 

 

Live Oak is one of the worst woods to work with.   Try and find it for sale that doesn't include what has fallen from storms.  And the amount of people who died trying to get the lumber for the American frigates is shocking.

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So why would it take longer to build out of live oak vs regular oak? I understand that Live oak is more durable but I can't imagine that working it is that much more difficult. Working with Teak on the other hand is painful. Teak wears out saw blades in no time at all.

Working live oak is a nightmare.

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Live Oak is one of the worst woods to work with.   Try and find it for sale that doesn't include what has fallen from storms.  And the amount of people who died trying to get the lumber for the American frigates is shocking.

i demand more information sems intresting to know

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I will try. I am an avid woodworker but I have yet to see live oak for sale. Then again I'm not a big fan of oak for the projects I am into so I'm not usually looking for it. I will now. I prefer exotics for my projects.

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