Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

Ahoy Matees!

 

I want to mention a couple observations and suggestions on the sailing mechanics in regards to leeway and currents.

 

LEEWAY

I don't know if this has been covered yet and forgive me about lacking clarity in trying to convey but I haven't noticed any LEEWAY (the sideways drift of a ship to leeward of the desired course).  When on a beam reach (the wind is coming from the side {65-125 degrees }), my ship should move slightly down wind or leeward.  Leeway should increase the more lateral wind there is pushing your sails.  Leeway also increases with heel. I know this is a very complex mechanic and not neccessarily neccessary, but it would enhance realism, strategy, and players' appreciation for sailing. 

 

DANGER OF LEEWAY: LEE SHORE

Also, historically, especially with square-rigged sails, a lee shore was a dreaded thought for sailors.  This is when shore is within sight but the wind is headed directly towards it.  This is bad because even if a vessel is close hauled, the wind pushes the boat back towards the wind. Sure, the boat may be moving "forward" but in reality the boat is veering and will innevitably head closer to shore and if the wind never changes, would innevitably run aground, despite best possible efforts at tacking. Anchoring is the only hope here.  But I digress, it may not be necessary.

CURRENT and TIDES

Now in the sea trials I have tried to crash into the lighthouse and found that it is not programmed to be crashed into. (I just flew right through it).  I know that open world will be the more appropriate time to test the mechanics of running aground and currents.  But I just want to reiterate the importance of currents in sailing.  Tides and their ebb and flow were crucial to timing when a ship would enter or leave a port efficiently.  Also, open water currents would often perplex sailors in navigation and could be a fun addition to long distance travel in the game. 

I hope this was somewhat clear and I would be happy to try to re-explain.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In practice any vessel sailing near the coast is on a lee shore quite regularly, and any tolerably well-found and well-handled ship should be able to make progress to windward, leeway or not.

 

Given that, a lee shore is only really dangerous in two general situations:

When there is a headland or line of shoals protruding into the sea so that a vessel can become embayed;

In rough seas that force the ship to lie-to, or otherwise slow it down to the point where it loses ground to leeway.

 

At the moment there's no leeway in the game, and we're unlikely to get it, although currents and tides would be very nice and are worth agitating for.

Modeling leeway is just a little out of scope, as things stand. Or rather, there's no point adding leeway when other aspects of windward performance are so far from reality.

 

Currently, square riggers sail according to the true, and not apparent, wind. This gives them a 10-15 degree advantage over a real ship.

In addition, the game's square sails can remain full and drawing when braced a point or so sharper than a real one. So add another few degrees.

Finally, the game's overpowered fore-and-aft sails can propel a square rigger to windward even when all the square sails are flat aback. So in actuality they can make progress to windward like a schooner. And the game's actual schooners can sail quite fast when a mere 15(!) degrees off the wind.

 

So in this case asking after the last 5-12 degrees lost to leeway is pointless.

 

 

 

Just for reference, no real square rigger can ever hope to sail closer than about 65 degrees to the wind, before taking leeway into account. A weatherly vessel might sail fast enough to make leeway negligible, however.

A schooner or cutter would be very lucky to get 45 degrees from the wind.

 

Keeping in mind that the game should remain playable, I would like to see the square riggers unable to beat to windward when their square sails are no longer full. In theory, they have thousands of square feet of staysails and jibs, but in practice the thrust they provide would be overcome by leeway all but entirely. Let our digital ships have an advantage over real ones, but a moderate one. At the end of the day, we can probably do without apparent wind, leeway and precise angles of incidence for wind on sails.

 

However, leeway could and should be a very real concern in the storm instances. Which is to say, ships should find it much harder to make windward progress in heavy seas, in proportion to their size. the Snow, for example, should be extremely cautious when sailing upwind in those conditions. If we captains ever have to worry about a lee shore, it will be in a storm.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are excelent points.

 

Leeway would be more effort and calculation that it's worth at the moment with sea trials.  It is always present however very slight in battle conditions; too slight to worry about in this aspect of the game.

 

Leeway should only really matter in the line of navigation.  Like you said, a leeshore would be a problem mainly in a storm. But that should be a possible situation that developers and players need to keep in mind. If they plan to simulate exploration and have rewards for documenting bug species in open world, then it would stand to reason that they should include that danger.

 

As you said, you can be at a full run with the wind directly behind and the front sails are still full.  I noticed that right away as well. I know sail trim is a hot topic and the devs are doing what they can, but this in particular bothers me.  It's lubberly behavior. (NO OFFENSE DEVS ;) )

 

And yes, current is probably more important.  It wouldn't have to be terribly complex, just something to keep in mind when navigating channels, ports, and long voyages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point, leeway would be nice to see in the open world.

 

In the prototype, you often have to point your bow into the empty horizon and follow a compass bearing to the nearest land. Ten degrees of leeway would complicate that somewhat.

 

Of course, it's still uncertain as to whether ships in the open world will have the same complex sailing model as they do in battles. Let's hope.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although your initial analysis of both the causes and dynamics of leeway is erroneous, you raise an interesting issue, and I would like to see the major causes for concern over a lee shore modeled if possible: reduced headway when facing storm waves, and currents. Even moderate waves -- and, if possible, the modeling of storm surge --and a strong tide -- i.e., the modeling of currents --should give sailors concern if they find themselves too close to shore with headlands on any possible upwind course.

I understand if this is asking for too much, but it would considerably enhance realism if sailors had to take waves and current into account when approaching and trying to leave port, or when sailing around in shallow, close to shore waters.

Edited by Tom Pullings
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bascially tried to forumulate the same idea in another thread, so I agree with OP... :P

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3580-wind-current-draft-and-ship-behaviour/?p=95030

 

And I think it should actually not be too difficult and a simple relation between wind vector and vessel type should be sufficient to implement a lee way drift. In combination with implementation of the apparent wind, this would be really outstanding for this game genre and not to difficult to realise.

For simplification the factor for the vessel type could a constant, even though it depends on really many variables. This constant gets multiplied with the wind vector and you get an additional movement vector for the vessel independent from the direction of the bow.

Edited by Ole Pinelle
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are excelent points.

 

Leeway would be more effort and calculation that it's worth at the moment with sea trials.  It is always present however very slight in battle conditions; too slight to worry about in this aspect of the game.

 

Leeway should only really matter in the line of navigation.  Like you said, a leeshore would be a problem mainly in a storm. But that should be a possible situation that developers and players need to keep in mind. If they plan to simulate exploration and have rewards for documenting bug species in open world, then it would stand to reason that they should include that danger.

 

As you said, you can be at a full run with the wind directly behind and the front sails are still full.  I noticed that right away as well. I know sail trim is a hot topic and the devs are doing what they can, but this in particular bothers me.  It's lubberly behavior. (NO OFFENSE DEVS ;) )

 

And yes, current is probably more important.  It wouldn't have to be terribly complex, just something to keep in mind when navigating channels, ports, and long voyages.

If one modeled this we'd need individual sail controls so we could furl the main course and brail up the mizzen when on a run, thus avoiding the lubberly behavior! B)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...