Thomas Blackwell Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Wow i didnt know about El Gamo, what a beauty indeed. Ramblings Ahead>> I believe El Gamo was the ship Patrick O'brian based the Spanish Xebec-Frigate, 'Cacafuego' on. The very real fight that took place between the Brig HMS Speedy and the El Gamo, which ended in the El Gamo's capture was an inspiration for the book Master And Commander. We have the El Gamo to thank (in part, at least) for helping spark the series so many of us have come to know and love. One of my favorite parts of the entire series was when Aubrey and the crew of the Sophie went to board the Cacafuego, leaving only the doctor behind. During the fight, Aubrey called back to the doctor in Spanish ordering him to send fifty more men. When the crew of the Cacafuego heard him say this, they threw down their arms in surrender. Why this is my favorite? Because that is exactly what happened during the action between the Speedy and El Gamo. A fantastic display of tactics, ingenuity and luck over brute strength told to us in a fictional storybook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Does anyone have some clear images that show a typical 'xebec-frigate' ? I would love to draw the sail plan for one of those. ~Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Blackwell Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Does anyone have some clear images that show a typical 'xebec-frigate' ? I would love to draw the sail plan for one of those. ~Brigand Best I could find. I hope it helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneironz Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Best I could find. I hope it helps. Are you sure that it is a regular xebec? Since this vessel has two kinds of rigging, squared and tri sails, it should be called a Polacre. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Blackwell Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Are you sure that it is a regular xebec? Since this vessel has two kinds of rigging, squared and tri sails, it should be called a Polacre. Am I right? I believe it is a Xebec-Frigate as the foremast rig is interchangeable between a triangular lateen and a more traditional ship rig depending on the captain's wishes, at least this was the case with the El Gamo. A polacre is identical from what I gather, minus the interchangeable rig. The reason I would love to see a ship like the El Gamo, is because captains would have the choice between a lateen or ship rig depending on the circumstances they are faced with in game. It would add a customisable feature that effects the ships sailing and handling qualities, giving it roles that other ships may not be able to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 The term 'polacre' (sometimes called 'polacca' in English) can be a confusing term, mainly when applied to the (18th/19th century) habit of classifying vessels by type of rigging. The distinctive feature of a 'polacre' is that they carry pole-masts. Thus, there are many vessels that can be polacres; there are 'polacre brigantines', 'polacre ships', 'polacre frigates', etc. The rigging usually was usually a bit different too, because of the pole masts: the (main) yards would be lifted from/lower to the deck. This difference is however very hard to spot on anything but a most detailed images. With the comming of aluminium masts, the term lost its significance. Hope this helps, Brigand 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If I recall correctly a xebec frigate switches between square and lanteen yards at will, so the rig will be utterly different depending on the day. That is not a xebec frigate because the mainmast is permanently square rigged (with separate topmasts) instead of having one-piece masts that taper, allowing them to accommodate both sliding square and lanteen yards. It goes without saying that a real xebec frigate would require a ton of unique coding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion van Ghent Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I am surprised no one has linked out to either the Danish Orlogsbasen or Chapman's Architectura Navalis. Admittedly the 1st is very hit-and-miss -- lots of ships listed, only about half of which have plans, and most of the plans are of rather poor resolution but could be reconstructed by someone with some effort and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The devs are currently constructing a yacht-sloop from Chapman. They asked the community about some details and deck plans, which I'm sure you could help with if you pull up the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Beautiful pirate ship: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 That ship can belong only to a fantasy world, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I just stumbled across this website full of ship plans and related resources of very high quality: Antology of ship model plans : general index of different ships plans (examples: a, b, c, d, etc) > Sail ship archive : archive of unsorted ship and boat designs. > (book) Rigging period ship models : by far the most detailed resource I've ever seen online. > (book) The neophyte shipmodeller's jackstay : a guide to modelling ships, full with very detailed and usefull diagrams. Most draughts seem to be of French design. ranging from ships' boats to Xebecs to 120-gun Ships of the Line. Cheers, Brigand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Ramblings Ahead>> I believe El Gamo was the ship Patrick O'brian based the Spanish Xebec-Frigate, 'Cacafuego' on. The very real fight that took place between the Brig HMS Speedy and the El Gamo, which ended in the El Gamo's capture was an inspiration for the book Master And Commander. We have the El Gamo to thank (in part, at least) for helping spark the series so many of us have come to know and love. One of my favorite parts of the entire series was when Aubrey and the crew of the Sophie went to board the Cacafuego, leaving only the doctor behind. During the fight, Aubrey called back to the doctor in Spanish ordering him to send fifty more men. When the crew of the Cacafuego heard him say this, they threw down their arms in surrender. Why this is my favorite? Because that is exactly what happened during the action between the Speedy and El Gamo. A fantastic display of tactics, ingenuity and luck over brute strength told to us in a fictional storybook. Yeah, Thomas Cochrane was a very interesting character. The characters (Aubrey, Hornblower, etc) we all know from historical fiction are heavily influenced by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BungeeLemming Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I just came across this beast of a ship: Le Commerce de Marseille. Built as the first ship of the "Océan-Class" ship of the lines. She was considered one of the best 1st rates of her time. Armed with 120 guns and still - in terms of 1st rates - pretty seaworthy and maneuvrable. She was laid down in Septemer 1786 and finished in October 1790. The french fisrt armed her with 118 guns but soon modified the armament and upgunned her to a max of 136 guns. The most significant difference between her and The Satissina Trinidad: no need to construct an additional gundeck. There are multiple websites where one can buy shipplans. Those on this page are the best I saw for free. I will get more informations once I am back from vacations. http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/118/plaquette-e.htm Another class of ships we should be able to play is the "Tonnant Class" ships. French two deckers, armed with 80 guns. Built from 1790 until 1834. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 For free? They cost 150 euros. But well worth it, Delacroix´s monographies are excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Le commerce de Marseille - what a beautiful name By the way.. What is the best known and most famous french ship? Like British Victory or US Constitution or spanish galeons. The one that says France - just by looking at it. (1680-1820 period preferred) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'd suggest googling French sailing ship models, since the companies that sell models likely pick popular ships (there are many versions of Victory, Constitution, Surprise, etc available). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion van Ghent Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Le commerce de Marseille - what a beautiful name By the way.. What is the best known and most famous french ship? Like British Victory or US Constitution or spanish galeons. The one that says France - just by looking at it. (1680-1820 period preferred) I would have to say Le Soleil-Royal, though sadly (for you ) she was completed in 1670 and burned in 1692. The problem with other -- and later -- French ships is that outside of the francophone community virtually none are so distinctive visually, and many of the better ones were captured by the British and used in their navy. I doubt, for example, anyone not enthused about the Napoleonic navy would recognise L'Orient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'd suggest googling French sailing ship models, since the companies that sell models likely pick popular ships (there are many versions of Victory, Constitution, Surprise, etc available). Well of course there are lots of superb french vessels there. But is there one that just says "vive la france" so to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Fleuron (one of the most elegant ships ever, imo), Belle Poule (1765, quite a bit of history for this one and the only vessel I know that inspired a hairstyle ) and pretty much any of the frigates or 74s designed by Sané. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well of course there are lots of superb french vessels there. But is there one that just says "vive la france" so to speak? Well, your HMS Surprise is already a lovely little French design, in point of fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barberouge Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well of course there are lots of superb french vessels there. But is there one that just says "vive la france" so to speak? France lost almost all its naval wars during those centuries. And lost its first colonial empire to Britain. There's no superb vessel saying "vive la France" The superb vessel of those centuries is the blood of the "grognard", the Napoleonian soldier. There might be one though, called "Soleil-Royal" in reference to Louis XIV. But the chauvinist propaganda couldn't make it very known The idea of superior privateers is nurtured though (privateering was forced by British blockade). The famous captains are privateers such as Duguay-Trouin, or Surcouf and his sloop Le Renard. A British officer discussing with Surcouf: "You French fight for money, while we British fight for honour." "Sir, a man fights for what he lacks the most." I've been asking on my old soc forums, maybe there will be more answers there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Blackwell Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 A British officer discussing with Surcouf: "You French fight for money, while we British fight for honour." "Sir, a man fights for what he lacks the most. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneironz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Le commerce de Marseille - what a beautiful name By the way.. What is the best known and most famous french ship? Like British Victory or US Constitution or spanish galeons. The one that says France - just by looking at it. (1680-1820 period preferred) May I suggest the ship 'La Couronne'? She was laid on 1632 and got scrapped in 1645.I know that it is an early ship but she was very advanced for the time, that could count as a later era ship no? In my opinion this is THE ship that screams la France! It has a french design and fleurs as decoration, the French symbol. Like other people said, most french ships were captured by the british, so people regard those ships as truly british ships. This is not the case of La Couronne. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Couronne_(1636) As it is tough to find another ship, you could give her a chance to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) not really french as you asked admin but it will fill the Royal Navy lineup with a 50gun 4th rate Portland class: HMS Leopard/Bristol/Isis Shiplines: Sail plan: Running and Standard a nice top view: and even some guns dame i'm in love with this site: http://woodmodelbuilding.blogspot.de/p/plans-and-drawings.html personally this will be one of my ships of choise to sail next to the HMS Bellona, 1th and 2nd rate Sol`s are overrated and i dont want to dock outside the habour with the chance of a brander atack and i dont want to go to the town by a rowboat. Edited February 26, 2014 by Mirones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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