Pirate alts Griefing PB fleet

[Anolytic]

In today's port battle for Cap Francis, pirates exploited to avoid a 25vs25 PB and win the defence without contest.

The following pirate alts were involved in the exploiting:

[CRT]GriezMann

Saddam

[FUHRE]Sir Sepp Stuart 

The accounts GriezMann, Saddam and Sir Sepp Stuart sailed with our PB fleet in Lynxes and basic cutters. GriezMann tagged a small fleet of pirate frigates to drag our PB fleet into battle just 10 seconds after the PB started, while we were 500 meters from the edge of the joining area and waiting for the 2 minutes to pass in order to ensure that all our players would get in. There was no pirate screening fleet in the vicinity that would be anywhere near enough to drag our fleet into battle.

Inside the PB the pirates had less 25 1st rates. This was clearly an intentional action to prevent the PB from happening.

The use of lynxes to tag also meant that some of the 25 slots in the battle we were dragged into was taken by the 3 exploiting players and their fleet. Meaning that some of our L'Oceans that were inside the pull circle were not dragged into battle and were left outside as easy pray alone for other pirates screeners to capture.

Inside of the battle we were pulled into, Sir Sepp Stuart and GriezMann quickly left, while Saddam stayed in the battle to do Green on Green at our 1st rates to keep them tagged. In the end we had to sink his basic cutter to get out of there. By the time we were all able to leave the battle the port battle was already over at 850+ points.

Several F11 reports were made from the battle and can be checked. Several chat violation reports were also made from within the port battle.

Screenshot:

From the PB:

If stuff like this is not dealt with, RvR is pointless. A 25 ship PB rate fleet should not be possible to split up like this. When sailing together like we did they should either all be dragged or none. And alts should not be allowed to drag PB fleets into battle to grief them like this. Because of this the port was defended without a single shot fired in the PB, even though the defending fleet would have been outnumbered severely.

We request that the Danish 1st rates that were lost outside the PB because of this griefing and exploiting are returned to their rightful owners, and that at the very least, invulnerability is removed from the region or the region is turned over as rightful spoils. The offending alts should be banned, and anyone connected to them should have their steam accounts banned as well. Clearly, demotion to first rank is not harsh enough of a punishment to act as a deterrent.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Anolytic

[Xaturas]

Sorry I only have one account and don't like when you threathen me inside a battle that i will get demoted or banned or other things will happen to me.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[akd]

I was there and pirate screeners would not have been able to stop the fleet.  Surprised the fleet couldn't leave immediately given the BR difference (more than 12x I think)

[voyageur]

One more screenshot.

The player with Saddam name pull in two battle our rates.

[Powderhorn]

I just hid 92 posts.  Ninety.  Two.  On a Saturday night.  And some of you have the audacity to complain about a lack of moderation while continuing to bicker in a tribunal.

You know the rules.  If this continues to be an issue, you'll be put on permanent premod.

Accused.  Accuser.  Evidence.

[Chug]

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There was no pirate screening fleet in the vicinity that would be anywhere near enough to drag our fleet into battle.

Yet your screen shot shows pirate screening ships in your OW battle and where in that case were your own screening ships? Screening ships and fleets are a part of the game and many port battles have been won or lost because of the guys in the small ships.

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Inside the PB the pirates had less 25 1st rates. This was clearly an intentional action to prevent the PB from happening.

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Because of this the port was defended without a single shot fired in the PB, even though the defending fleet would have been outnumbered severely.

Your own last screen shot you posted of the PB seems to show the pirates had more than a respectable force inside the port ready to defend it. I see 22 1st rates and a full 25 people on the pirates side in the PB. Your forces seem pretty evenly matched so I'm not sure I see a severely outnumbered defending fleet.

Quote

 

The use of lynxes to tag also meant that some of the 25 slots in the battle we were dragged into was taken by the 3 exploiting players and their fleet. Meaning that some of our L'Oceans that were inside the pull circle were not dragged into battle and were left outside as easy pray alone for other pirates screeners to capture.

 

This is the job of screeners to try and split apart the port battle attacking fleet and try delay/sink the enemies big ships. the fact that other players were in the same fight as you who were not in your big ships seems to be (when there is more than 25 ships in the same pull circle) down to RNG. Picking which ships in a tagging circle are pulled and which are not is not an ability players have.

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Inside of the battle we were pulled into, Sir Sepp Stuart and GriezMann quickly left....

Would this not indicate that they were dragged into a fight that they didn't start or want to be part of? Many players in small ships come to the area of PB's either out of curiosity of what goes own or because they see it in nation/global chat and being "new" want to take part without really knowing how it all works. Either that or they just in the area doing their own thing Trading/pve etc when all this is happening and like many people they close chat as its usually full of rubbish talk. I have random people join my missions or fights in OW fairly often and i'll be fighting a line ship and they hop in in a basic cutter. It can be annoying but its not against the rules.

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while Saddam stayed in the battle to do Green on Green at our 1st rates to keep them tagged

Green on green is against the rules and should be looked into. I was not aware it activated the 2 min tag timer. seems silly that it does and should be looked into. Hope you guys got some screen shots/evidence for this. The ones you posted above don't seem to show it so but perhaps the f11's you sent hopefully do.

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 Several chat violation reports were also made from within the port battle

Again your screenshots here don't show any of this. Your only PB screen shot does not show anything wrong as far as i can tell. looks like it would of been a good fight even though the Danes are outnumbered.

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We request that the Danish 1st rates that were lost outside the PB because of this griefing and exploiting are returned to their rightful owners, and that at the very least, invulnerability is removed from the region or the region is turned over as rightful spoils. The offending alts should be banned, and anyone connected to them should have their steam accounts banned as well...

This is the only bit of your post I have a small problem with. The NA team should decide the punishment not you, due to your conflict of interest. Having said that, I get the sentiment as loosing out on some fun due to a possible griefer is not fun. I am pretty sure the pirates waiting in the PB for you guys to turn up feel the same as it seems they were ready and willing for a fight. You don't bring 20+ 1st rates to the port battle to do nothing with them.

 Some screen shots of the ships you lost would be handy but if there is no accused exploiter in those fight, as seems likely, as you show the people you accused are all in your fight in the first screenshot you posted.. Then the ships must of been lost in other fights and these must of been just another normal open world fight. So how can you punish people by removing their prize they probably spent an hour plus trying to sink/capture and not get sunk themselves when they in all likely hood had nothing what so ever to do with anything you are accusing others of and are just players playing the game as intended.

Asking to turn over the region as "rightful spoils" is also just a little conceited. Sat in the port battle as your own screenshots prove is a full fighting force of line ships equal to your own and to think that your win was guaranteed, well you get my point.

Steam ban seems also to be an extreme call. It's a game mechanic that has potentially been exploited, that already doesn't work well (Just one of many right now) and you say has been used against you. Yes, if the player/s are found guilty they deserve some punishment but some of the blame should be laid at the Developers for not fixing the problem. it's been around for a long, long time.

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Clearly, demotion to first rank is not harsh enough of a punishment to act as a deterrent.

I am not sure if this is a comment on the fact the majority of the guys in the port battle for the pirates are from the clan SORRY or if it is a genuine stated punishment form the NA team for the type of action your accusing those 2-3 players of in your post. I'll just say this, just because people pick a nation to play in NA doesn't mean their actually from that nation in real life. Nor does having SORRY as your clan tag mean you must be some Machiavellian bad guy who is responsible for every bad thing that happens. The game, like any other, is full of good guys and bad guys and everyone in-between. To believe they are all just in one clan and some how responsible for every dirty deed carried out by any player is being a little misguided.

 

As a final note. (yeah its been a long one folks, my bad. almost done) I'd just like to say to PowderHorn I think you did the right thing removing all that "spam" I read 2-3 posts of it last night and wished I hadn't.

Hopefully what I've written above is ok and relevant. Thanks for reading, now back to the game.

[Tomms123]

35 minutes ago, Chug said:

-Snip-

 

 

First of, the screeners on the pirate side didn't start the battle, the tagger is the top left person in the tab screen, thus the small lynxes.

 

There used to be an odd thing in the mechanic that if you had 49 people and you attacked someone which was alone everybody in the tag circle would get in until it was filled to 50 players. I don't remember if this were "fixed" or rather changed in one of the older patches, but don't think so.

[DreamMaker]

I havent screenshots, but sent F11 report. If you check it you can see how accused  Danish players start fight, pulled all Danish 1-st rates fleet in the battle, and after this, accused players start "green on green" fire, friendly fire. These are not just lost new players, it was sabotage with the use of illegal methods. After Danhish rates fleet leave battle, accused do it again and again...

 

P.S (Not in the subject):  Vikus it was dirty... not trust for you more, not respect for you more, u know about what i write.. forum warrior....

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Chug said:

Yet your screen shot shows pirate screening ships in your OW battle and where in that case were your own screening ships? Screening ships and fleets are a part of the game and many port battles have been won or lost because of the guys in the small ships.

BR mechanics would never allow such a small screening fleet to ever pull off an attack like that, and also shows that the lynx is the one who initiated the battle and made it possible.

5 hours ago, Chug said:

Your own last screen shot you posted of the PB seems to show the pirates had more than a respectable force inside the port ready to defend it. I see 22 1st rates and a full 25 people on the pirates side in the PB. Your forces seem pretty evenly matched so I'm not sure I see a severely outnumbered defending fleet.

With the PB circle system it makes a huge difference whether you're 2-3 ships up, so to face 5x 2nd to 5th rates in a lineship battle is pretty huge, not to mention how many of the pirates were Devils, with the 800 crew cap probably contributing to why they're all having to opt for Victories rather than Santis/L'Oceans.

So yes, it was definitely in the Danes' favour had they had their full fleet and no massive point loss. Good luck finding a experienced PB fighter who would say otherwise.

5 hours ago, Chug said:

This is the job of screeners to try and split apart the port battle attacking fleet and try delay/sink the enemies big ships. the fact that other players were in the same fight as you who were not in your big ships seems to be (when there is more than 25 ships in the same pull circle) down to RNG. Picking which ships in a tagging circle are pulled and which are not is not an ability players have.

This has nothing to do with the pull circle tagging some ships but not others, this is about using enemies using your own ships  to block the slots for entering the battle when tagged. The only way for enemies to purposedly achieve that is through the use of alts.

5 hours ago, Chug said:

Would this not indicate that they were dragged into a fight that they didn't start or want to be part of? Many players in small ships come to the area of PB's either out of curiosity of what goes own or because they see it in nation/global chat and being "new" want to take part without really knowing how it all works. Either that or they just in the area doing their own thing Trading/pve etc when all this is happening and like many people they close chat as its usually full of rubbish talk. I have random people join my missions or fights in OW fairly often and i'll be fighting a line ship and they hop in in a basic cutter. It can be annoying but its not against the rules.

...Hence the whole point of having an investigation...If a link is found between the pirates and the suspected alts, then...

Edited June 25, 2017 by Guest

[Hammerhaj]

EDIT: I was there, part of the PB fleet. We had more screeners, but what can one do when the pirates filled tagging alts in our ranks. Its very cute indeed, that you try so hard and break the rules AND the game. All these lengths, just to avoid combat. Its really fun you are like this.

 

Edited out unnecessary parts in your post, please stick to the tribunal rules. - Moderator Team

[Anolytic]

My own video recording of the events was corrupted unfortunately, but I have obtained from another clan-member a recording showing the offending actions in question. I have cut it down to the most relevant parts. The full recording can be obtained by the tribunal officials on request.

The recording shows that the sea was almost empty of pirate screeners after Danish and Swedish screeners had done their job very effectively. There were barely any pirates on the sea when we approached and they were all in small ships with no way of tagging our fleet under the new tagging rules.

The video also shows that at the moment the battle started our fleet was huddled up in a very close group, with everyone inside the tag circle, but because battles are now apparently capped at 25 ships on either side, some of our 1st rates were left defenceless outside while pirate alt cutters and lynxes and fleets were dragged into the battle. This part is a ROE mechanics issue (something really needs to be done about this), but an issue we were well aware of and had taken measures to avoid by not having our own frigates or other screeners sail with the 25-player port battle fleet.

The video also shows the account Saddam with a danish flag and in a basic cutter shooting at Danish ships, tagging them with chain and raking with ball, while ignoring and being ignored by the enemy frigates in the battle although sailing right past them. Saddam also posts in battle chat to troll after being confronted with the fact that he is doing green-on-green.

 

Edit:

Edited out rule breaking parts. - Moderating Team

[monk33y]

**EDIT**

I received a warning in the past for doing the same thing the above post is doing..

 Where is the consistency of moderation??? 

Back on subject! As I'm being accused of cheating. I have the right to reply to this under your own Forum guidelines.

Screening is part of the game, not being able to make it to a port, has happened many times before! Correct or not? The so called proof above only shows Danish characters pulling players into a pve/pvp instance.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AT ALL SHOWN here that myself or any other pirate has committed any breach of rules!

Again there is NO EVIDENCE that land party has done any wrong apart from the Danish players who tagged AI!! 

**Edit2** If your going to pick on the way I construct sentences it may be down the fact I'm extremely dyslexic. Where on my most do I admit to doing anything, apart from screening? Your accusing pirates regarding the port battle for cap Francis a pirate held port!

The fact that I mentioned that someone dragged you into a battles is a statement of fact (hence the tribunal topic)

 

Edit:

Edited out rule breaking points. - Moderator Team

[qw569😳]

On 24.06.2017 at 9:14 PM, Anolytic said:

We request that the Danish 1st rates that were lost outside the PB because of this griefing and exploiting are returned to their rightful owners, and that at the very least, invulnerability is removed from the region or the region is turned over as rightful spoils. The offending alts should be banned, and anyone connected to them should have their steam accounts banned as well. Clearly, demotion to first rank is not harsh enough of a punishment to act as a deterrent.

I see only one rule that has been violated. It's Green to green.
And if you read the rules in RU-section, then there are no violations.

Our clan is ready to discuss the exchange of Danish L'Ocean.

Edited June 26, 2017 by qw569

[Guear]

23 minutes ago, qw569 said:

I see only one rule that has been violated. It's Green to green.
And if you read the rules in RU-section, then there are no violations.

Our clan is ready to discuss the exchange of Danish L'Ocean.

 

On 01.05.2016 at 7:38 PM, admin said:

• Using alts to pull people into battle is not allowed

[OlavDeng2]

This topic has gone its course.

 

-Closed for further investigation. 

[admin]

1. Player saddam will be banned from game for 2 weeks with full reset of his in game progress. 
2. Other players are still under investigation 

New group type will be created 
Port battle fleet allowing 25 members

Port battle fleet if attacks or if attacked will be pulled into battle in its entirety (if in the pulling circle) and will ignore other ships of your nation in the pulling circle

All other ships will have to enter using reinforcements. This will remove the ability for your nation members to interfere with your port battle fleet and if you fleet is full you have 100% guarantee of unwanted ships getting into the battle or splitting your fleet.

[Ink]

Investigation is completed. The players were proven to be alts and were found to be guilty of supporting enemy nations in battle. 

Verdict:

1. Captain Saddam is banned from game for 2 weeks with full reset of his progress.
2. Captain Sir Sepp Stuart is banned from game for 2 weeks.
3. Captain GriezMann is banned from game for 2 weeks.

Please inform everyone that using your account to support enemy nation can result in account XP resets and long or permanent bans