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In response to our most honourable enemy the spanish nations tribunal complaint 'British using basic cutter exploit'


JCDC

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Hello, I open this thread to denounce the abusive action of several players of the British faction. These players have used illicit mechanics to combat my ship with an IA fleet. I think it's a clear exploit of the rules. I add that I do not know how 6 basic cutters can put in combat a fleet with 3 Trincomalees and an L'Ocean with the BR that they have. It is clearly seen in the video how they make a friend fire to catch fire and let themselves explode next to my boat. In any case you should take action against this type of exploit as it damages the gameplay of this magnificent game. Obviously this request is from a case different from another one raised today by a colleague of Vltra. Thank you.

The dear Captain Jorge of his most serene highnesses Spanish navy opened the above complaint in Tribunal about an action yesterday.

I thought it important that we show where we learned these cutter swarm tactics.

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The answer being, from him and his friends! What irony! what perfidy! My complaint about that action is not Tribunal worthy, because I understand the difference between mechanics and exploits which is why we did not complain but took the battle in good spirit. however here it is:

"Hello, I open this thread to denounce the abusive action of several players of the hypoctrite faction. These players have used illicit mechanics to combat my ship with an IA fleet. I think it's a clear exploit of the rules. I add that I do not know why 13 basic cutters were put in combat a fleet with of small ships, when they could have just bought other small ships from the same ports. It is clearly seen in the screenshot how they swarmed us with these small ships, and we soundly defeated them, achieving nothing for anyone. In any case you have already taken action against this type of mechanic as it damaged the gameplay of this slightly dodgy game . Obviously this request is from a case different from another one raised today by Jorge in tribunal, one of the very captains who used this tactic himself. Thank you." Captain Ranger - His majesty's privateer 'Hypocrite hunter'

 

Anyway, all a bit of a laugh but seriously, you cant use a stick on someone and then complain when the same stick is set on fire and shoved into your l'Ocean.

 

'Be the change you seek in the world' - Ghandi

 

 

 

Edited by JCDC
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Being more serious, it is clear that the basic cutter used in any form of PvP is just broken, but the devs have 90% addressed that now so good on them. its a non issue really now.

 

The real issue is that for a number of reasons, mostly not linked to effort or organisation but due to situation/geography/CM issues/Alliances, some nations have fleets of L'oceans, and some have not a single one. so if you bring your big shiny ships down, you must expect asymmetrical tactics used against you. We would love to fight you in 1st rates, but we have none. so, do we give up? we cant fight you in frigates, so we use whatever is allowed. in this case, fireships. if cutters weren't allowed, we would use brigs etc.

There is a reason 1st rates would be escorted by lots of smaller ships, you didn't take that lesson on board clearly, you just arrogantly rolled in in your doom fleet, thinking it made you invincible. It doesn't. don't get mad, get smarter.

 

 

So, really the lesson is to bring appropriate ships for the enemy and the situation, understand the tactics that will be used against you and take preventative measures (and not be a hypocrite.)

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11 minutes ago, JCDC said:

 

The answer being, from him and his friends! What irony! what perfidy! My complaint about that action is not Tribunal worthy, because I understand the difference between mechanics and exploits which is why we did not complain but took the battle in good spirit. however here it is:

 

It seems you like historical quotes, I have one for you:

 

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."   Albert Einstein.


 

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3 minutes ago, Pablo Frias said:

It seems you like historical quotes, I have one for you:

 

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."   Albert Einstein.


 

Well, I wouldn't describe bringing a fleet of insufficiently escorted and prepared L'oceans down to grind hostility and getting upset if they get hurt as 'infinite stupididy' but ok if that's what you think.

 

2 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Tribunal is not        

 

Carry on :) 

Well exactly. :)

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1 minute ago, JCDC said:

Being more serious, it is clear that the basic cutter used in any form of PvP is just broken, but the devs have 90% addressed that now so good on them. its a non issue really now.

 

The real issue is that for a number of reasons, mostly not linked to effort or organisation, some nations have fleets of L'oceans, and some have not a single one. so if you bring your big shiny ships down, you must expect asymmetrical tactics used against you. We would love to fight you in 1st rates, but we have none. so, do we give up? we cant fight you in frigates, so we use whatever is allowed. in this case, fireships. if cutters weren't allowed, we would use brigs etc.

 

So, really the lesson is to bring appropriate ships for the enemy and the situation, understand the tactics that will be used against you and take preventative measures (and not be a hypocrite.)

The issue isn't fireships nor is it asymmetrical tactics.  It's using a workaround to get a free ship meant for PvE into a battle it really shouldn't be in.  Bring brigs or lynxs or whatever you want.  the issue is that the Basic Cutter is absolutely free, you get no PvP marks for sinking it and so carries no risk. 

 

Seeing as your tactics have been sanctioned by the tribunal we intend to make it impossible for your puppies to do missions or operate safely doing pve and we will carry no risk.  But we will get PvP marks, we already tested it out this morning on one of your captains in a snow :)

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I heard of a Snow that was attacked by a Trincomalee and actually survived. And captured the heavy frigate, beware of the newcomers and non-pvp ships.

I hope to see less salt and more RP newspaper stories :)

 

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Just now, Senhor Lenhador said:

The issue isn't fireships nor is it asymmetrical tactics.  It's using a workaround to get a free ship meant for PvE into a battle it really shouldn't be in.  Bring brigs or lynxs or whatever you want.  the issue is that the Basic Cutter is absolutely free, you get no PvP marks for sinking it and so carries no risk. 

 

Seeing as your tactics have been sanctioned by the tribunal we intend to make it impossible for your puppies to do missions or operate safely doing pve and we will carry no risk.  But we will get PvP marks, we already tested it out this morning on one of your captains in a snow :)

oooooo, internet threats!

if we had done the same thing in dead cheap lynxes, I am pretty sure you would have been just as sad. but seriously, if the issue as you put it was the use of lots of free ships with no risk, why was it ok for the Spanish to do it to us the week before? that's really the whole rather obvious point. you cant cry in tribunal about tactics you used yourself first.

 

and you are welcome to interdict our captains on the open water, its what this game is about. I wont be complaining as long as you follow the rules of the game.

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1 minute ago, JCDC said:

oooooo, internet threats!

if we had done the same thing in dead cheap lynxes, I am pretty sure you would have been just as sad. but seriously, if the issue as you put it was the use of lots of free ships with no risk, why was it ok for the Spanish to do it to us the week before? that's really the whole rather obvious point. you cant cry in tribunal about tactics you used yourself first.

 

and you are welcome to interdict our captains on the open water, its what this game is about. I wont be complaining as long as you follow the rules of the game.

It wasn't.  It was fixed or at least an attempt was made to fix it.  And there should be more than just the 'rules of the game' things should be done in 'the spirit of the game' this is a ridiculous loophole that seems to have been sanctioned by the devs. 

 

PS had you used lynxs, with 5 or 6 lynxs sunk that's near 100,000 worth of ships.  That's a fair trade off.  I'm not sure how much the British faction would be prepared to lose that way.

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Just now, Senhor Lenhador said:

It wasn't.  It was fixed or at least an attempt was made to fix it.  And there should be more than just the 'rules of the game' things should be done in 'the spirit of the game' this is a ridiculous loophole that seems to have been sanctioned by the devs. 

 

PS had you used lynxs, with 5 or 6 lynxs sunk that's near 100,000 worth of ships.  That's a fair trade off.  I'm not sure how much the British faction would be prepared to lose that way.

Still not hearing why its ok for Spanish to use basic cutters to damage paid for ships, but tribual worthy when we retaliate in kind.

100,000 is nothing. we have money, we just don't have conquest marks for well known reasons.

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Just now, rediii said:

noone said it's ok that spanish used them. Let's agree that it's a bad mechanic which should be patched out.

Totally agree that its a bad mechanic that should be ended.

 

however, there is an implicit idea when people who use a tactic then complain about others using it that they think its ok.

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3 hours ago, fremen said:

 

 

 

few points there:

 

1. Calling the devs absolutely stupid achieves nothing, its not constructive. they have already patched most of the Basic cutter use out. I am sure the rest will follow soon

2. The british lack of 1st rates is not down to lack of organisation or hard work, we have the money, members, big clans and resources required. its down to lack of conquest marks. The system of conquest marks was totally broken, where some nations could immediately get loads, and others not due to circumstances/alliances etc. Once a nation has CM's it makes a fleet that cannot be beaten by a nation without them. so for example, we cannot take any ports from you, because you have full PB fleets, and we don't. The british had already captured most of their ports before the CM system was changed, and we had no close allies to flip ports with like the rest of you did. we cant get CM's without a PB fleet, and we cant get a PB fleet without CM's. easy to understand yes? THAT is the reason why the Brit nation has crumbled, a nation that was strong enough for a whole year to fight 3-4 others and win, including you, is not full of 'losers' we simply have got the wrong side of a bad mechanic. such is life.

3. You probably will get banned with that attitude and language, but that's your fault really.

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7 minutes ago, fremen said:

I could imagine many forms before about the absolute stupidity of the devs, but in this case, cross the line definitely. 

The devs conduct the game to make more and more difficult make 1st rates, with the intention to make the game more cooperative. The Spanish faction achieve this point before other factions with a hard work, and using the game as the devs design.

 

 

hard work aka port activating with pirate help. But then freaking out when danes and brits do the same. Heresy!

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3 minutes ago, JCDC said:

few points there:

 

1. Calling the devs absolutely stupid achieves nothing, its not constructive. they have already patched most of the Basic cutter use out. I am sure the rest will follow soon

2. The british lack of 1st rates is not down to lack of organisation or hard work, we have the money, members, big clans and resources required. its down to lack of conquest marks. The system of conquest marks was totally broken, where some nations could immediately get loads, and others not due to circumstances/alliances etc. Once a nation has CM's it makes a fleet that cannot be beaten by a nation without them. so for example, we cannot take any ports from you, because you have full PB fleets, and we don't. The british had already captured most of their ports before the CM system was changed, and we had no close allies to flip ports with like the rest of you did. we cant get CM's without a PB fleet, and we cant get a PB fleet without CM's. easy to understand yes? THAT is the reason why the Brit nation has crumbled, a nation that was strong enough for a whole year to fight 3-4 others and win, including you, is not full of 'losers' we simply have got the wrong side of a bad mechanic. such is life.

3. You probably will get banned with that attitude and language, but that's your fault really.

Brits have a deal in place flipping ports for the Danes, I have seen them doing it (Royal clan)  if you are telling me that is a one way deal then you need lesson on negotiating instead of crying about lack of marks!

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6 minutes ago, Bountyhunter said:

Brits have a deal in place flipping ports for the Danes, I have seen them doing it (Royal clan)  if you are telling me that is a one way deal then you need lesson on negotiating instead of crying about lack of marks!

Yes, we do. but that deal is for 3 ports, and started yesterday.

So, we get 75cms per day, starting today. that is hardly a basis to be able to fight a full fleet of L'oceans is it? expecially not when the Spanish get around 200 per day, and had a massive headstart.

So no its not a one way deal, but others were able to do such things easily with friendly neighbours, we had to cross the entire map to do it with an 'enemy'. it took a long time to arrange and achieve because of that. But the danes were smart enough to realise that if they wanted to have fun wars with us, they should let us get some ships first. the Spanish on the other hand refused to do a deal with us because they were afraid and only like to fight weak enemy, and now complain about our alternative tactics.

I know for a fact that the Swedish have offered war to spain, but it was refused, for fear of fighting an opponent with the ability to fight back. instead you choose to in the words of your colleague 'attack our puppies and prevent them from doing PvE'.

That is the great Spanish nation, self confessed hunters of puppies, scared off by some basic cutters while in your full battle fleet!!! how we quake in fearitude.

 

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Just now, JCDC said:

Yes, we do. but that deal is for 3 ports, and started yesterday.

So, we get 75cms per day, starting today. that is hardly a basis to be able to fight a full fleet of L'oceans is it? expecially not when the Spanish get around 200 per day, and had a massive headstart.

So no its not a one way deal, but others were able to do such things easily with friendly neighbours, we had to cross the entire map to do it with an 'enemy'. it took a long time to arrange and achieve because of that. But the danes were smart enough to realise that if they wanted to have fun wars with us, they should let us get some ships. the Spanish on the other hand refused to do a deal with us because they were afraid, and now complain about our alternative tactics.

 

It started weeks ago not today and I have screen shots to prove it ! your excuses are absolutely pathetic tbh ! They have made the game the biggest grind ever and you want to justify a mechanic that allows you to counter someones 100 hours of effort with zero hour exploit (basic cutters).

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3 minutes ago, Bountyhunter said:

It started weeks ago not today and I have screen shots to prove it ! your excuses are absolutely pathetic tbh ! They have made the game the biggest grind ever and you want to justify a mechanic that allows you to counter someones 100 hours of effort with zero hour exploit (basic cutters).

so, you can prove that the bluefields port battle, that happened yesterday, or the old providence port battle, that is today, happened weeks ago?

interesting. please show me screenshots of Danish triggering port battles in britan weeks ago. please.

I mean the actual deal might have been done a week ago, but you understand that you get CMs after the battle right? not the day the deal is signed?

 

Also, if you actually read my posts you would see I don't like the basic cutter pvp stuff at all, but since you used it on us first, we have to reply the same.

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32 minutes ago, Senhor Lenhador said:

The issue isn't fireships nor is it asymmetrical tactics.  It's using a workaround to get a free ship meant for PvE into a battle it really shouldn't be in.  Bring brigs or lynxs or whatever you want.  the issue is that the Basic Cutter is absolutely free, you get no PvP marks for sinking it and so carries no risk. 

 

Seeing as your tactics have been sanctioned by the tribunal we intend to make it impossible for your puppies to do missions or operate safely doing pve and we will carry no risk.  But we will get PvP marks, we already tested it out this morning on one of your captains in a snow :)

The marks have been the same as earlier. This is exactly the same. Before the "PVE SHIP" patch the basic cutter had been absolutely free too and you also got no PvP marks earlier for sinking it. The only thing they "fixed" is that you can not directly attack an enemy ship with the basic cutter!

So everything you said here is totally meaningless and you only embarrass yourself even more.
I hope that not the whole VLTRA clan is that ridiculous but right now it looks like it.

Sad story for such a proud nation as the Spanes that they got such a foolish clan.

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