We need better look outs!

[Magnum]

In reality any Captain would have in his crew many men and boys whose job it would be to "Lookout" for other ships. This game models having crew load the guns and turn the yards so why not lookouts in the OW (and perhaps in battle)?

It would be pretty clear if the Dev's put in a mechanism to show graphically when enemy and friendly ships came into a certain range (say 8 nautical miles) - like this:

Current sailing gizmo        :

 

Two Enemy ships show up:

 

Then three Friendlies show:

 

This would save the Captain from always having to do the crews work and look out for other ships. I might even go a step further and ask for a "ding" when a ship shows up to take the place of a lookouts call "Sail HO - off the larboard taffrail"

On a frigate at least three people would be on lookout duty at any one time - and they would be thrown overboard if they didn't know a friendly from an enemy ship for the most part.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Magnum
Dang words

[monk33y]

Most of use sail with the map up. Only going into ship view to fire.

I like the idea but I wish it was a vocal key not a visual one (more immersion)

[JollyRoger1516]

39 minutes ago, monk33y said:

I like the idea but I wish it was a vocal key not a visual one (more immersion)

Like the idea as well. I think both should be in combined with a little better 'radar' view in the bottom. But similar to the whole grid square question - options - let us choose how much of it we want to activate. (you can say about Ghost Recon Wildlands what you want but the variety of options regarding the HUD were awesome)

[Richard Whitby]

I think this is a great idea.

Especially with a vocal key it would be a very nice addon to the game. 

[Sir William Hargood]

I would much rather love to have an Audio Call from the masthead: "Deck There!!! Sail HO 3 points off the Starboard Quarter/Beam/Bow" this followed by the Ships Bell giving a few rings or three and the Officer of the Watch repeating something similar. Way more realism and immersion. I would also like the ships only able to show friendly or enemy tags through the Spyglass...or even no Tags...just simply flying colours. The Devs seem to be moving more hardcore-ish...this would lend a great deal to more realism I would have thought.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Sir William Hargood

[Hullabaloo]

Yeah i like this idea

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

1 hour ago, Sir William Hargood said:

I would much rather love to have an Audio Call from the masthead: "Deck There!!! Sail HO 3 points off the Starboard Quarter/Beam/Bow" this followed by the Ships Bell giving a few rings or three and the Officer of the Watch repeating something similar. Way more realism and immersion. I would also like the ships only able to show friendly or enemy tags through the Spyglass...or even no Tags...just simply flying colours. The Devs seem to be moving more hardcore-ish...this would lend a great deal to more realism I would have thought.

Indeed, you pretty much have it. Ships often carried more than one ships bell, the main ships bell which would count off half hours during the watches with single and double strikes, odd numbers being on the half hour even on the hour, It also functioned as an alarm for fires or other emergencies at sea by continuous ringing. There would also be a lookouts bell  in the maintop which the lookouts manned as the highest manned point in the ship giving maximum visual range, traditionally it was rung three times to attract attention on the Main deck before making the sighting report, (those who have watched Titanic will have seen how the system worked).

The Idea of showing the position of ships in sight on the hud is a good one, seamen of that age who stood lookout were at the least Able Seamen, with many years of service, they would easily be able to define a ships nationality by the cut of their sails, all would recognise ships they had served aboard or in company with from considerable distances so I think coloured ticks would reflect that knowledge on the hud, The only criticism I would have is in heavily travelled waters where the hud may become a little cluttered.

[Mrdoomed]

Dont ships already have a lookout ? Isnt the player the lookout? I think what you are asking for in a clever way is a warning signal for all you afk players so you can do other stuff till the computer gives you an audio alarm. 

Leave it the way it is, its one of the fee things left that rely on player skill or alertness rather than just special abilities rewarded for time sinks.

Yes im aware my view isnt popular since most players seem to have ADD and have to afk sail.

[Magnum]

3 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

Dont ships already have a lookout ? Isnt the player the lookout? I think what you are asking for in a clever way is a warning signal for all you afk players so you can do other stuff till the computer gives you an audio alarm. 

Leave it the way it is, its one of the fee things left that rely on player skill or alertness rather than just special abilities rewarded for time sinks.

Yes im aware my view isnt popular since most players seem to have ADD and have to afk sail.

As I suspected, the "Ambush Predators" are sour on the idea of another player (er victim) having any tools to reduce their "victimness". So how about we take away the mods like sir congreavs sights and melee training and - I know - lets make the trader ships even one more knot slower than the warships!. You know help the ambushers all we can!

Never mind that Lookouts are way more realistic than many parts of the game we are all quite happy with used to, such as the day long North Sea rainstorms we see so much of.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Magnum

[AngryPanCake]

9 hours ago, Magnum said:

when a ship shows up to take the place of a lookouts call "Sail HO - off the larboard taffrail"

 

@Magnum  That is a great idea and will add more immersion to the game. I do like the voice warning better than a ding.

The only thing I foresee as a possible annoying issue would be sailing in crowded shipping lanes and hearing the lookout/ding every other second! Adding some "Lookout options" to filter the warnings would be a good addition as well. For instance: Lookout warning at 8, 6 or 2 miles only. So if you choose 2 mile warning and you are in a crowded sea, you will only hear the lookout when ships are within 2 miles of your ship.

But again, anything that would add immersion to the game would be welcome.

[surfimp]

Can't you guys watch Netflix on your own time? We're trying to play a game here.

[Guest]

UI crutches, not a fan.

It's up to the player to maintain awareness of his or hers surroundings, and get punished for failing to do so - it's good fun to do things to try and avoid it (e.g. sneaking into enemy capitals by mimicing/hiding among the AI ships, ambushing folks from behind islands e.t.c. If I were to make a trade run using this I would frankly set the course, minimize the window to only show the compass and be on my merry way only paying attention to red dots.

[AngryPanCake]

6 minutes ago, Aegir said:

UI crutches, not a fan.

It's up to the player to maintain awareness of his or hers surroundings, and get punished for failing to do so - it's good fun to do things to try and avoid it (e.g. sneaking into enemy capitals by mimicing/hiding among the AI ships, ambushing folks from behind islands e.t.c. If I were to make a trade run using this I would frankly set the course, minimize the window to only show the compass and be on my merry way only paying attention to red dots.

I see what you mean and you are right, this might not be great content/feature for PvP servers, but it surely is great for the PvE server!

Edited June 11, 2017 by AngryPanCake

[surfimp]

 

Sailing the open world, especially when you have valuable cargo aboard a trade vessel (or you've just capped a player trader and are trying to avoid a revenge gank) is one of the most exciting and nerve-wracking parts of the game. The fact that so many player traders go AFK while sailing just blows my mind... but I am happy to alleviate them of their burden.

For my part, I'm spinning 360s all the time, always on the lookout for bad guys and always having an escape route in mind. It's one of the best things about OW sailing on the PVP servers and a core gameplay experience.

Because NPC ships don't attack player ships on PVE, I can't imagine why this proposed feature would be needed on those servers. If you are hunting NPCs, you should be looking for them... if you are a trader, there is no risk because it's the PVE server. Does not compute.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Sansón Carrasco

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

7 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

Dont ships already have a lookout ? Isnt the player the lookout? I think what you are asking for in a clever way is a warning signal for all you afk players so you can do other stuff till the computer gives you an audio alarm. 

Leave it the way it is, its one of the fee things left that rely on player skill or alertness rather than just special abilities rewarded for time sinks.

Yes im aware my view isnt popular since most players seem to have ADD and have to afk sail.

Fine, perhaps a reduction of visual range is in order since the view is from deck level if you cannot get reports from the watch keeper in the maintop where visibility is greatest,  where is the point in spotting ships at deck level at ranges when only the lookout would see them from the main top? 

[Hethwill]

Reported, in a clear day, 16 miles with the sun in the back. Would be the same as 20/20 eyesight correlation.

[Magnum]

2 hours ago, Aegir said:

UI crutches, not a fan.

It's up to the player to maintain awareness of his or hers surroundings, and get punished for failing to do so - it's good fun to do things to try and avoid it (e.g. sneaking into enemy capitals by mimicing/hiding among the AI ships, ambushing folks from behind islands e.t.c. If I were to make a trade run using this I would frankly set the course, minimize the window to only show the compass and be on my merry way only paying attention to red dots.

Total bullpucky - You just want to ambush anyone actually enjoying this beautiful game by looking at the clouds, the sea and the beautiful islands - make it selective so you can turn it off if you don't like it - not everyone is a total hardcore no life ganker like you. Why don't you load your own guns?

Holy crap - the trader already has a 1 knot initial nerf, plus a % speed nerf with load, plus no guns - and of course you like him blindfolded even!

Proper UI that reflects the REALITY of the age (lookouts and all) ---- big fan! even EVE (the most hard core MMO) has a proper Tactical View so you can spot enemies sneaking up on you.

If this "minor" MMO had a proper Tactical View - then NP. But it doesn't.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Magnum

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Total bullpucky - You just want to ambush anyone actually enjoying this beautiful game by looking at the clouds, the sea and the beautiful islands - make it selective so you can turn it off if you don't like it - not everyone is a total hardcore no life ganker like you.

Proper UI that reflects the REALITY of the age (lookouts and all) ---- big fan!

Well then, let's not stop there.

The captain isn't the lookout - let them warn him of everything and everyone.

The captain isn't manning each gun. Let him tell which side that he wants to fire and don't bother aiming or timing, the crew does that for him.

The captain isn't the quartermaster, let him bother with maintaining the stock of repair kits, rum and cargo.

The captain isn't the navigator, why should he have to check where he's going, just click a point on the map and auto-sail there.

There you go, "realistic", "immersive", all at the expense of gameplay. There are far better ways to achieve those things.

Now since you couldn't maintain an argument without inane ideas of thinking that it's not an issue if you can 'just turn it off' and I'm supposedly a 'total hardcore no life ganker', I'm not going to waste more time on your terrible idea. Good day.

[Magnum]

15 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Well then, let's not stop there.

The captain isn't the lookout - let them warn him of everything and everyone.

The captain isn't manning each gun. Let him tell which side that he wants to fire and don't bother aiming or timing, the crew does that for him.

The captain isn't the quartermaster, let him bother with maintaining the stock of repair kits, rum and cargo.

The captain isn't the navigator, why should he have to check where he's going, just click a point on the map and auto-sail there.

There you go, "realistic", "immersive", all at the expense of gameplay. There are far better ways to achieve those things.

Now since you couldn't maintain an argument without inane ideas of thinking that it's not an issue if you can 'just turn it off' and I'm supposedly a 'total hardcore no life ganker', I'm not going to waste more time on your terrible idea. Good day.

You prove my point and then say good day? - would you play if you had to go to each gun and supervise the loading and aiming of it while under fire?

You just like your style of activities and want the game mechanics bent to your style (as frankly so do I) - that's all this is about - try not to take it personal like poor Mrdoomed did.

And I might add this is much more realistic than the Romulan cloaking exploit the Pirates can and are pulling by just "attacking" each other then waiting in their so called "outlaw" battle while their alt spy calls passing traders for them for free PvP Marks - TOTAL RUIN of the game.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Magnum

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Magnum said:

You prove my point and then say good day? - would you play if you had to go to each gun and supervise the loading and aiming of it while under fire?

You just like your style of activities and want the game mechanics bent to your style (as frankly so do I) - that's all this is about - try not to take it personal like poor Mrdoomed did.

Terrible comprehension yet again. It's a halfway measure to make balance act between what isn't feasible and what is passive and easy, yours is the latter. If you think that your point was actually proven with such terrible examples that would hollow out large chunks of the game, then it's a hopeless case.

Sod off with your silly assumptions, ever since the wipe I've gone trader hunting...twice? And instead spent lots of time doing trading runs all over the place. At least some of us know the difference between what makes for good game design and our own selfish desires. There's a server where you can look at pretty clouds in peace.

[Magnum]

16 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Terrible comprehension yet again. It's a halfway measure to make balance act between what isn't feasible and what is passive and easy, yours is the latter. If you think that your point was actually proven with such terrible examples that would hollow out large chunks of the game, then it's a hopeless case.

Sod off with your silly assumptions, ever since the wipe I've gone trader hunting...twice? And instead spent lots of time doing trading runs all over the place. At least some of us know the difference between what makes for good game design and our own selfish desires. There's a server where you can look at pretty clouds in peace.

I said don't take it personally. Hey, just because all the men on your ship won't speak to you out of fear of your "wrath", don't lump my men in that group.

My men are quite willing the cheer when we knock off a mast, or create loading shock on the enemy gun deck. They are also quite willing to shinny up to the tops and lookout for prey and/or enemy we should avoid.

Sadly, they are silenced by the programming limits artificially imposed.

[JollyRoger1516]

3 hours ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Sailing the open world ... is one of the most exciting and nerve-wracking parts of the game.

I have been playing this game for over 1750 hours now. The sea has been blue for the first 10 hours, the next 90 still blue, next 900 still blue and another 750 hours surprise, surprise its still blue... And I'll betcha it will still be blue for the next 250 hours as well. Elite Dangerous not only offers varying visual scenarios but also requires constant activity of you. While relaxing it still keeps me active. Trading in Naval Action on the other hand is an absolute and utter borefest... I commit to it out of the sheer necessity for money and absolutely nothing happens along the road. Hence why everyone watches youtube or whatever while sailing. And even when you end up in combat you either can't fight or run(trader brig) meaning immediate surrender after 10 desperately useless minutes or running away in the LGV (lay in the course and wait for the timer to run out)... That describes like 90% of the traders I have attacked and the rest only were interesting for either side because those guys had fleet ships. The trader was still boring.

[CaptVonGunn]

On 6/11/2017 at 0:43 AM, monk33y said:

Most of use sail with the map up. Only going into ship view to fire.

I like the idea but I wish it was a vocal key not a visual one (more immersion)

Huh? I think his idea is for OW not combat instance 

[monk33y]

If it is for open world then I say no!

hello kitty sake you have eyes and a mouse right! If I misinterpreted the ideal apologies! 

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

13 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Reported, in a clear day, 16 miles with the sun in the back. Would be the same as 20/20 eyesight correlation.

Yes sir, in the best conditions that would be so, but conditions are seldom at their best, haze, fog, low cloud all limit visual range, the height of the viewer also limits visual range, the sighting range from a Snow is considerably less than that of a Victory. You speak of having the sun at your back, what of the lookout who is looking to the up sun side of the ship? His view is restricted by the brightness of the sun itself, indeed should he look directly at the sun or near to it he gets dazzled and is ineffective for several minutes, or even fails to see the sail coming over the horizon. At 16 miles a ship is very small, (at 15 miles the spotters aboard Hood could not tell the difference between a cruiser  and a battleship, In fact Capt. Leach of the Prince of Wales had to query the target and point out the error to Capt. Kerr aboard Hood to refer the matter to Adm. Holland, Adm. Lutjens aboard Bismark thought he was facing two cruisers until just before Hood opened fire) if visible you may only see the upper masts, you certainly would not see frigates at those ranges, though a ship of the line may be possible, the hull could take hours to come over the horizon if the wind is not good. As demonstrated the role of a lookout is more complex and demanding than at first sight.

After a while the eyes get tired especially while viewing at long distances, it's why lookouts were changed more frequently than other watch keepers, at sea things can also appear to be something they are not, low lying cloud can and has been mistaken for land. One of the best illustrations of failure to see an object until it was too late occurred on a clear night with calm seas, and according to some, rare conditions which proved to be RMS Titanic's undoing. Some also say that a lookout lower down in the bows may have seen her nemesis sooner rather than later.

While Naval fire control stations and radar are beyond the scope of the topic it would be fair to say the main sighting equipment was mounted high on the foremasts, and on top of the after structure so they could see beyond the horizon as seen from the deck, even then a ship was more likely to spotted by a lookout lower down first since spotting tops were only manned at action stations.  Even with Radar ships collide, run aground for various reasons, the Captains of those ships were not AFK, they may not have been on the bridge or quarter-deck but they were 100% dependent on their lookouts to warn them of impending danger.

Now I do accept that in a game you cannot model everything, maybe you should not even if you could, but a good lookout and the reports they issued were a fundamental and vital part of ship board life. Having sighting reports does not, nor has it ever meant that every man from the Captain down does not have a duty to keep one eye open for the safety of his ship and crewmates, that means that you should still keep a good watch and that sighting reports are an aid to, not a replacement for a good lookout.