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Aiming Difficulty


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Most people I have spoke too think the games shooting mechanic is too hard, I for one like the challenge and think that the difficulty should not be lowered or else every one will be a crack shot and instead of there being skill, it will become a game much like EVE online, but spreadsheets at sea, not space.

 

What I was thinking of was how people could improve, and granted this is an alpha, so it is probably on the low down to do list, but a shooting range could help everyone, I find it hard to become familiar with a ship when the only time you get is in combat with it, so a range could help learn the new ships, test out new weapons from the constructors menu and keep people interested in the game. I wouldn't be expecting big spiny targets, but something very simple like the scene from Master and Commander, were they are all just shooting at a boy, its simple and a hard target, which will get people used to firing on something very small making a ship easier.

 

Anyways I don't expect this to happen soon, or not at all, but it would sure help in the long run as it may keep people interested and not push them away due to the challenge of hitting anything.

 

What do you guys think?

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personally i think that for me at least training for the game would mean i was bored in game. In real life gunnery training did happen but more often than not with no live rounds. In fact we will get more practice and see more action than they ever would.

 

I am just not a fan of the whole starcraft practice until perfect and then exploit mechanic. But for new players that are frustrated by being under fire sand having to learn i can sort of understand.

 

Perhaps in open world you can pay parliment each time you use some of your rounds for training as in jack aubrey books.

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shooting is fine as it is it only looks so hard for the new guys since they are siting in anutschell with 4-6cannons on each side.

on the surpise with 12guns on gundeck and another row on top it doesn´t matter if with that 5 shot in total will miss by going to high or too low

but on the cutter or lynx it matters alot.

 

dont give up after 3-4 days

easy to learn hard to master

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Size of ship maneuvering, i.e one for the lynx, cutter and yacht, then another for square rigged, so on and so forth, perhaps a tonnage rating, so as the size goes up so does your skill need to.

 

Tactics, when to make a maneuver, its ok to know how to tack, but when is best to use it and how is it best to hold the weather gage. This can also be linked in with firing with the weather, using your ships lean to get more range, most people don't do this in game and state the enemy is out of range.

 

Group sailing, put them in an AI fleet who has just been jumped with ships heading left right and center, have the AI take control of their ships cannons but leave them in complete control of sailing the ship, the objective can then be to get out of the big mix up without making contact with any ships. 

 

Formations, basically being in the right place, too many times have I been blocked by a friendly lynx or cutter as I am about to unload a broadside upon an enemy they cannot scratch. This can also be tied in with a cannon effectiveness chart? basically stating in what ship should you engage or run, or if you can even run, as I see too many Lynx's going toe to toe with a surprise.

 

I also think that the tutorial system should be skipable, I think that in a game like this, were it is easy to play but hard to master, people who are willing to learn more and put in the extra effort should see the benefit of their efforts.

 

And Mirones, I agree, but I have 4 friends in a skype call, all of them have the game and have alpha access but they are all unenthusiastic as they feel the lynx, cutter and yacht are under powered and don't want to be cannon fodder.

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not really underpowered unless you compare them to the ships you are facing in PvE.

against each other yacht and cutter is fine and durable lynx on the other hand is more a hit and run.

fixes are on the way no need to throw all the work away and change it into an arcade casual game.

 

4x6lb 6x6lb isnt much but demanding an complet overhaul of the gameplay because of the beginner ships without trying out the bigger once is nuts

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personally i think that for me at least training for the game would mean i was bored in game. In real life gunnery training did happen but more often than not with no live rounds. In fact we will get more practice and see more action than they ever would.

 

I am just not a fan of the whole starcraft practice until perfect and then exploit mechanic. But for new players that are frustrated by being under fire sand having to learn i can sort of understand.

 

Perhaps in open world you can pay parliment each time you use some of your rounds for training as in jack aubrey books.

Fail to Prepare, Prepare to fail. Read PO'B, his books are full of Aubrey's crew doing gunnery practice. Trust me the best navies in the world always have and always will practice, whether it is gunnery, missiles, torpedoes or whatever. If you don't practice you don't perform. FACT! So.. the option to go into some kind of "training area" and do gunnery and manual sailing etc without the major distraction ofr shot raining down around you, is to me, absolutely essential.

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I do think adding 2 more range lines. and having each line be a specific range would make it easier without removing the skills. (you would still need to judge the range)

guns

---- 100m

---- 300m

---- 500m

and for Cannonades

--- 50m

 

--- 100,

 

 

--- 200m

You don't need range lines, knowing the enemy is 150 yards away is meaningless, there is no setting on the guns to fire 150 yards...it is only a number, you will still have to fire ranging shots and adjust....utterly pointless

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Game-Labs - to make game more user friendly and fun to play, please reduce ships to just one model (victory), and buy AWP aiming model from Valve Counter-Strike.

 

 

By the way-about practice:

"A typical broadside of a Royal Navy ship of the late 18th century could be fired 2-3 times in approximately 5 minutes, depending on the training of the crew, a well trained one being essential to the simple yet detailed process of preparing to fire. The British Admiralty did not see fit to provide additional powder to captains to train their crews, generally only allowing 1/3 of the powder loaded onto the ship to be fired in the first six months of a typical voyage, barring hostile action. Instead of live fire practice, most captains exercised their crews by "running" the guns in and out — performing all the steps associated with firing but for the actual discharge. Some wealthy captains — those who had made money capturing prizes or from wealthy families — were known to purchase powder with their own funds to enable their crews to fire real discharges at real targets"

 

Seriously-in my opinion, people are disappointed with firing difficulty level, because they try to shoot at extreme (and not realistic for age of sails) range.

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i don't know why people would want the firing to become easier. It requires a degree of skill and that is what the game should cater; the more you practice the better you get and the more skillful players we then get in the game. i for one don't want a game like PotBS where a few people trained to become good at it and the rest sailed straight down the middle of a fleet requiring no skill. If you want to be a successful naval officer in this game and you will be called as an escort to proceed then you need to practice and you can therefore actually attempt to live up to the amazing feat that Captains and crews aspired too in the Age of Sail.

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The aiming does not need training wheels(extra aiming lines etc). Skill is essential and that comes from practice. If everyone was able to master gunnery in little time the game would become boring and players would leave. There needs to be something that players can differentiate themselves by.

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I belive thet I was one who had suggested a range finding feature this past summer. With experiance I would now say that would be counter productive to the game and to the player.

If firing is too hard you can probably make a profitable business trading wool, as I believe that the Admin had stated in an earlier post. ;)

I assume that the rest of your post PrezesOi was toung in cheek humor(?) but I do agree that folks are disappointed when their shots miss from such a far distance that they don't even know who they are firing at yet.

There will be tutorial of course in the future. Including the Admiralty exams for every rank.

If you have suggestions on the key concepts that must be in the tutorials please post them here.

I think if you are going to have Admirality exams to move up (which is excellent IMO) that their are a couple of key components you must include:

1. The first is for those who need to be able to show some progress early to temper their disappointment at not being able to master the sailing and firing after the first couple of days. So, the early exams should be very basic and pretty easy, building up to harder ones so that they can progress to ensign to Lieutenant jg after the first few days.

2. Their should be some component of a minimal "time in grade" and "time in service" (as in current US

Military) before even being considered for a candidate to take an exam. Want to be an Admiral? Great, see you after you have 20 play hours as a Commodore and a minimum of 200 hours total play time (the durations are arbitrary for illustrative purpose)

3. There should be different ratings for sailing and for firing guns. And If I suck and if I will always suck at shooting then when I hire NPC crew they should have differing ratings/skill values so that it may improve my shooting capability by some small percentage. I know that some will argue against that but it would be realistic. As in life, those who are good leaders bring on staff that compensate for areas of their own short comings. Obviously higher skilled NPC officers cost more to maintain and, due to their recognized expertise, would probably get "promoted off" of your ship after some period of time to command their own, leaving you to have to go back and look for a new gunnery officer and start over. So the more highly skilled NPC characters have a shorter shelf life as a member of your crew.

I believe that the basic components of what is needed in the tutorials has been touched on. However, the one area that seems to catch almost everpyone is the ability to successfully tack vs jibe or wearing. I think that the turtorial should have charts of the capabilities of the different ships at the different points of sail ie that many ships may sail faster on a broad reach than when running. These basics of sailing I think were pretty well understood by most of the testers to some degree or another but my observations are that this may not be as generally understood by those who joined at sea trials.

I think that the tutorials should not just be reading but interactive (a mission) and provide certifications upon completion, similar to what you may see at currently sailing cert schools (ex: ussailing.org). You want move on from coastl waters and skipper a bigger ship like a frigate you need to know (and be certified/passed Admirality tests) in navigation (whatever navigation mechanics /tools will be used by the game.)

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The cannons with sights only had so because the Captain of the ship invested in them. Obviously one of the most famous Captains for doing that was Capt. Broke who invested a great deal of money in them being fitted to his guns.

And that was very late in the era. And Broke faced many gunnery challenges completely missing from the game. He would have loved to have had the Naval Action gunnery system at his command. All guns coordinated in bearing and elevation at the twitch of a finger right up until the second before firing? Sure! Ability to disregard smoke? That would be fine. Nearly full broadsides landing on target at max range with several days of practice? Oh, yes please.

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That is one of the reasons that I am more than happy with the current gunnery process. Yes you constantly have to adjust your aim but that is part of the skill level. I don't wish to see markers to make it easier. If one finds it too hard then work at it and then your labour shall pay off.

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I was wondering about the possibility of having your guns split in their firing so you could fire one gun to test the range before firing all the other guns. at least as an option, whether to stagger your gun firing or have them all fire at once.. that way theres no need for extra aiming helpers or anything, just more in game feedback about where your guns are aiming.

Sometimes I've noticed my guns go like this anyway, with one loaded before the other 5, I fire it off and then make any adjustments before firing the other 5.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I'm loving the game so far after only 2 days and think the Devs have done a brilliant job so far. Well done! I'm excited to see how this game develops.

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