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Liquicity

Testbed - Demasting & Accuracy cap

Question

Posted (edited)

I've been testing demasing on the testbed for a bit.
There seem to be quite a few new +accuracy upgrades / skill books. The ones a clanmate has found so far are the following:

  • "Table Of Parts Of Ships Of War" -10% Dispersion
  • "Flag Officer" -8% Dispersion
  • "Sir William Congreve's Sights" -5% Dispersion

Additionally, if running carronades, the perk "Carronade Expert" lowers the Dispersion by another 5%.

All these buffs combined result in an accuracy bonus of +28%.

Now, I'm wondering, is there a cap for dispersion? Because I think the point of Carronades is to be somewhat in-accurate close up damage dealers and they're not meant to be laser guided missiles.
Combined with the buff regarding demasting (It takes 7 32pdr hits to demast a surp's main mast, see the video below), and the repair time being upped to 15 minutes, demasting might actually become a more often used thing to do in battle. We will know once it goes to live servers :) I'm very curious to see.

(In this Video I didn't have any accuracy buffing upgrades / skill books, so imagine if someone stacks all possible upgrades together, that might result in some crazy sniper action.)

 
Edited by Liquicity
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Posted (edited)

I believe admin said accuracy cap is +100%.

Also there's more accuracy mods than that.

  • L'Horizon Balistique-7% 
  • Notched Angles-10%
  • Grande-Terre Equipages De Ligne-4%
  • Sur Le Canonnage A Bord-6%

I think that's all of them combined with yours.

Edited by Duncan McFail
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Tommy is good but SeaWolf is better :rolleyes:

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Or just watch some of the you tube videos of the NA tournament not so long ago, de-masting at its finest.

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Posted (edited)

I think it's wrong to assume that ping 500ms is equal to a delay in the game of 0.5 second.

Because we do not know how many TCP/IP packets need to be transferred from client to server and back.

In my opinion, the influence of ping can be estimated as follows. Calculate how long it will take 14 single shoots from gun deck of trincomalee. In ideal conditions It must take 13 seconds.

===rus===

На мой взгляде, не корректно считать, что при пинге 500мс задержка в игре 0.5 сек. Потому что нам неизвестно, сколько TCP/IP пакетов необходимо чтобы передать информацию от клиента на сервер и обратно.

Влияние пинга можно оценить, путем подсчета времени необходимого, чтобы выполнить 14 выстрелов из нижней деки тринкомали. В идеальных условиях это должно занять 13 секунд.

Edited by qw569
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On 13.05.2017 at 0:19 AM, maturin said:

Almost all

the typical battle ended up looking like this.  

ot9RmNB.jpg

There are a lot of sketches from Glorious first of june (as one of the famous painters was present in the british fleet) and most of lineships are demasted on them. 

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Agree completely. Thanks for the test!

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arent the accuracy upgrades affecting only vertical dispersion? (except the carronade perk)

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I've been doing some demasting practice on testbed. I am by no means very skilled at it, but "practice makes ...blah blah blah you know the rest." Like the others, I think *most* of the accuracy upgrades are just for vertical dispersion.

Personally, I don't think demasting will be any more popular with the new system than it is now. Especially since you can now repair masts every 15 minutes, and get some pretty good repairs once you unlock enough slots and perks to start stacking. If anything, they should make demasting the lower masts harder to do, but permanent [as in, you can't repair those in battle]; while making demasting the upper masts--topmasts and above--ever so slightly easier, but less rewarding because your enemy can repair those ONCE in battle.

Something that was recently brought to my attention, and makes perfect sense, and I am glad it is implemented, is this: the upper masts are thinner, and can be penetrated by lighter shot. I was doing some testing and saw a Trincomalee be demasted above the main-cap by ball [not charge] from 9pdrs on a Surprise. I also used double-charged 18pdrs on my Trincomalee to demast an Indefatigable above the foremast cap. Now this is probably common knowledge among the dedicated "mast snipers" here, but I did not know this, and I found it to be quite a nice touch. 

More to the point of your question:

Firstly, keep in mind that the penetration of those carronades will still fall off quite considerably at range... Also, with the way HP is distributed on ships on testbed, if you are not darned sure of yourself going for masts, you'd best watch out because you may find yourself sinking before he loses a mast the second time [demast, repair, demast, then get a few minutes to shoot a less-maneuverable ship before he repairs again].

By the way, I think I read a post somewhere that the cap on dispersion was 100%, but not sure if this is true or even an attainable percentage.

Also, unless they changed something, "notched angles" skillbook is also a dispersion modifier: like Pellew's Sights but with a different [and strange] name. "Master gunner, notch those angles properly now, none of this radius business: I want those angles notched properly. Understand?" :lol:

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horrific tactics, I don't like to fight against. Prefer classic style, but if is it sufficient, why not use it.

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Thanks Liq from the video.

I do not think buffing mast sniping was the idea here, it is already the meta on Live.

Hull should be the meta.  I am pretty sure that would create the most realistic scenarios, and the best possible gameplay.  Hull meta does not make raking and mast sniping to be useless.  Small ships use raking vs big ships, and big ships use mast sniping vs small ships.  Also Chains would be useful once again in this scenario, big ships vs big ships.  After hull is down, Grapes would work just fine.  Also wind and positioning is well included in this one.  Also realistic tactics would work just fine.

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38 minutes ago, Suricato Rojo said:

@Liquicity... I count 8 shots. One more between 6th and 7th according to the video.

That one didn't register properly (in the top)

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Posted (edited)

Said this in another thread: Stepping a new mast is an all day affair having a lot of risk is you are not in dry dock. It would not, should not, and could not be done on open water, in battle, at all. It is beyond stupid to think thi should be a thing. It's like pulling and replacing an aircraft engine while you're falling out of the sky.

Edited by Challenge
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1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Hull should be the meta.

APFf3Hl.gif

Anyone can bash hull. Hull, masts, crew- and cannon raking needs to be balanced, but if you balance everything towards hull meta the game becomes dull.

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Angles were notched during exercises. Markings carved for presets ( we don't have to worry much as we have a mouse control stabilizer ). The more elevation angles were notched and noted into the batteries the easier it would be in real combat.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Anyone can bash hull. Hull, masts, crew- and cannon raking needs to be balanced, but if you balance everything towards hull meta the game becomes dull.

I believe anyone can bash masts, crew and cannons as well.  Point and click gameplay is not really where Naval Action skill should be measured, at least not with the current UI.  I believe that average players are well able to snipe masts.

Sniping masts is the only thing that matters atm.  So if you want to be good in this game, just snipe masts.  Mast meta simplifies the game and brings the skill cap down.  I actually have to say that it is a pretty boring meta.  When people figure this out and practice, sniping a mast down with one broadside will be a standard. (And probably needs only those bigger cannons from a broadside)

Things that I wrote in my previous posts, will be applied with Hull Meta.  Hull Meta probably raises the skill cap.  Surprising right?  It is just that with Hull Meta it seems simple, you just bash and dont have to aim etc. like you point there...  But there is a high change that everything else gets way more interesting and important with Hull Meta.

With Hull Meta I mean that Hull should be our primary target.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ
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Posted (edited)

Now we have a sort of firing assistance and shoot in this game is like a Leopard 2 tank.

Maybe we need remove autoleveling. If you need to know when fire (and fail) with the movement of the sea would be a good advance in gameplay skills. With a little delay between the order (press fire button) and the actual broadside shoot. This would be a good reason for more skill books for improve this delay.

"Pellew sights" type skills would add a broad firing reference and not the actual thin red line. That "gunsight" would be thinner with improved gunnery skills. Without gunnery skill books you haven't any sight reference to shoot and need trust in the range shoot or your skill or experience.

Limiting the firing of one gun to only one every (5-6seconds maybe). If the captain (we) would fire a cannon for himself, he cannot to change to another cannon in only 1 second.

The same with autoskipper. Remove the F key and set the sails angles only in manual. Or at least make that the autoskipper don't set exactly the best point of sails.

With this changes, demasting would be more based in skill or/and number of cannons in the broadside.

Edited by Siegfried

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Dummy targets do not move ( and we do have stabilization )

reklamni-celi-300x199.jpg

 

At the moment all combat opportunities have a real chance of crippling the opponents. Raking can demast as much as mast snipe, for example. Hull damage can be decisive with a good pass, leaks can be catastrophic, and so forth.

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I can't claim to be an expert in the matter, but based on what I have read on famous duels between frigates, brigs and such it seems if a captain wanted to target rigging they used disabling shot such as is already in the game.  Demasting was often a side effect of volley fire to the hull of the ship and the inherent inaccuracy of such broadsides in combat conditions.  In other words, demasting was something that happened sometimes over time of firing round shot along the decks or broadsides at the hull, the ships could take so much punishment and wooden ships so rarely actually sank that eventually everything above deck would be leveled along with the swiss cheese of a hull if my memory serves.

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Posted (edited)

I think demasting is a bit more than just 'point and click'; You're risking a lot by dedicating yourself to taking down masts. If you take too long / miss too much, you will pay the price.

Edited by Liquicity
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How do you even take down a mast? I've tried many times and just can't be THAT accurate.

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2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

I believe anyone can bash masts, crew and cannons as well.

Sure, but I know some people who are better at it than others.

 

2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 Mast meta simplifies the game and brings the skill cap down.

"Simplifies" is not the word I'd use but I agree with your general drift. I disagree about lowered skill cap, tho.

2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 sniping a mast down with one broadside will be a standard.

Poke me if that ever becomes a problem and I'll help you get it back to balance.

2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

But there is a high change that everything else gets way more interesting and important with Hull Meta.

I don't understand. How can hull bashing (including crew and cannon loss) be more interesting and challenging than keeping an eye on hull AND sails AND crew AND masts?

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I'll be damned if I ever let someone with carros EVER get that close to my vessel....  If I do, I've already lost the battle, in my mind....   

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If I recall proprely, the "real" demasting (I mean the one made on purpose, not the causal effect of a ball boardside) was carried out trying to cut and slash the ropes that linked the masts to the ships and to each other. And that was done firing bar or chain shots.

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14 minutes ago, Sir Joseph Blaine said:

I'll be damned if I ever let someone with carros EVER get that close to my vessel....  If I do, I've already lost the battle, in my mind....   

Are you thereby confessing that ingame do exist failfitters that are more failfitter than a carronade pointblank faifitter? :blink:

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