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suggestions after some days of testing new build on testbed


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@admin Well, these are my suggestions after some days of testing on testbed

 

GENERAL

- overall, I suggest you to tweak down a couple of notchs the huge time and money sinks you added to each and every aspect of the game (playing NA shall not look like a work, but shall be first of all fun game to play also for players that have only an hour a day, otherwise you will never have enough playerbase for a MMO)

- put a window in ports screen with the layout of the actual tree of the ship slot unlock progression (one shall know in advance which path leads to each "perfect" slot higher level ships)

- avoid, also in PVP servers, to give interesting rewards only for PVP marks (maybe put a very high multiplier - 1 PVP mark is 10-15 PVE marks - but BPs, permits, and some upgrades should be obtainable also with PVE marks) or - in alternative - add to the admiralty shop also BPs and/or upgrades and actually veluable rewards (not only coins and furnitures) that may be obtainable ONLY with PVE marks.

 

PVE (MISSIONS and OS)

- let loot (or at least upgrades dropped by the sunk ships) be lootable from floating crates at the end of the fight or - in alternative - let ships sink much slower than they to now (looting now is way too difficult)

- tune a little down the damage of IA ships, at least in first 4 levels missionos: a newbie will struggle in those battle

 

PVP

- add some mechanics in order to avoid infinite revenge tagging at the end of a combat (1 min invisibility seems not enough)

- grant traders the possiblity to throw away (a % if their) cargo (maybe in the preparation phase of the combat if not during the combat itself) in order to enhance their speed

- grand traders the possibility to surrender in the preparation phase of the combat, thus keeping the ship (in that case, the aggressor will have the choice of moving a part of the cargo in his ship and the rest will be sent - with a delay proportional to the distance - to the aggressor's nearest port where he has a warehouse).

 

TRADE & CRAFT

- remove pine log as a needed material for rigging quality trims in ships crafting

- let the smuggler flag mechanics exactly as it is now

- let players trade directtly between each other when they are in the same port

- if you remove global channel, let trade chat channel in each town (both national and free town) accessible by the players of all the factions

- let IA traders be capturable by players OR put in IA shops in port also trader brigs sold by the IA for money

- put ingame a tool that lets players of all the factions check which buy and/or sell orders are set up in a chosen zone.

- let players look directly from the map at the port resources that can be harvested in each port they already visited.

- add some more copper, silver and gold producing ports for each faction.

- let crafting of ships drop a number of PVE marks proportional to the level of the crafted ships.

- let travel in a trading ship drop PVE marks proportional to the distance covered.

 

After my two cents, from now I will stop commenting on this forum and wait for the wipe.

 

 

 

Edited by victor
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I would add: Keep everything that works and has worked to make it a worthwhile game.

In three years, the Devs must have a list, on paper or on computer or in their minds, of things that have been successful in making Naval Action a great game.

To constantly chop and change cannot be a good idea.

Edited by Lannes
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5 hours ago, victor said:

@admin Well, these are my suggestions after some days of testing on testbed

 

GENERAL

- overall, I suggest you to tweak down a couple of notchs the huge time and money sinks you added to each and every aspect of the game (playing NA shall not look like a work, but shall be first of all fun game to play also for players that have only an hour a day, otherwise you will never have enough playerbase for a MMO)

- put a window in ports screen with the layout of the actual tree of the ship slot unlock progression (one shall know in advance which path leads to each "perfect" slot higher level ships)

- avoid, also in PVP servers, to give interesting rewards only for PVP marks (maybe put a very high multiplier - 1 PVP mark is 10-15 PVE marks - but BPs, permits, and some upgrades should be obtainable also with PVE marks) or - in alternative - add to the admiralty shop also BPs and/or upgrades and actually veluable rewards (not only coins and furnitures) that may be obtainable ONLY with PVE marks.

 

PVE (MISSIONS and OS)

- let loot (or at least upgrades dropped by the sunk ships) be lootable from floating crates at the end of the fight or - in alternative - let ships sink much slower than they to now (looting now is way too difficult)

- tune a little down the damage of IA ships, at least in first 4 levels missionos: a newbie will struggle in those battle

 

PVP

- add some mechanics in order to avoid infinite revenge tagging at the end of a combat (1 min invisibility seems not enough)

- grant traders the possiblity to throw away (a % if their) cargo (maybe in the preparation phase of the combat if not during the combat itself) in order to enhance their speed

- grand traders the possibility to surrender in the preparation phase of the combat, thus keeping the ship (in that case, the aggressor will have the choice of moving a part of the cargo in his ship and the rest will be sent - with a delay proportional to the distance - to the aggressor's nearest port where he has a warehouse).

 

TRADE & CRAFT

- remove pine log as a needed material for rigging quality trims in ships crafting

- let the smuggler flag mechanics exactly as it is now

- let players trade directtly between each other when they are in the same port

- if you remove global channel, let trade chat channel in each town (both national and free town) accessible by the players of all the factions

- let IA traders be capturable by players OR put in IA shops in port also trader brigs sold by the IA for money

- put ingame a tool that lets players of all the factions check which buy and/or sell orders are set up in a chosen zone.

- let players look directly from the map at the port resources that can be harvested in each port they already visited.

- add some more copper, silver and gold producing ports for each faction.

- let crafting of ships drop a number of PVE marks proportional to the level of the crafted ships.

- let travel in a trading ship drop PVE marks proportional to the distance covered.

 

After my two cents, from now I will stop commenting on this forum and wait for the wipe.

 

 

 

I am fine with the cost of items as they are now in Hotfix 4. I do believe though they need to add more resources however to create decent profit with doing trade. Currently there is very few trade goods to move and when you can move them there is very little profit. When I started out I accidentally messed up my gold and practically started with nothing which in turn is probably for the best because when server wipes do occur we start with nothing. I have been taking loans from others just to finance a few things and to keep up pace with everyone else. 

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6 hours ago, victor said:

put a window in ports screen with the layout of the actual tree of the ship slot unlock progression

Admin already said this is coming.

6 hours ago, victor said:

avoid, also in PVP servers, to give interesting rewards only for PVP marks... ...should be obtainable also with PVE marks

Why should PVE grinders get everything? If you want the nice things you have to pay the iron price ;) I think I saw admin state they're done with giving away participation trophies. These PVP marks really work as motivation to go PVP, I think we need as much motivation as possible.

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The game definitely needs a tutorial or a manual. I've started playing in the Testbed and with so few players online, 40-60, very few French players and no one from my Clan, I am finding it is trial-and-error.

First, there aren't enough players to have PvP battles. I've been looking for Great Britain players outside their ports and found no one.

(a) I don't know what Ship Permit is. (b) I didn't know one has to sink an NPC after boarding in order to receive rewards in gold etc. Otherwise one gets nothing. (c) I didn't know one has to put crew on board the NPC in order to do (b). (d) I didn't know PvE Marks (money) can get converted to PvP Marks that you need to get Ship Permits. And so on.

My first impressions are that, all in all, I find it an inferior game to the Naval Action of a year ago; it seems too restricted in action and crafting and supply of materials. I am not sure how to manage the materials that were given to me free initially. It is shrouded in mystery because of its trial-and-error mode.

What I like about the old Naval Action was the number of ships I can have, (I have 15); having ships with from 5 to 1 durability; the possibility to craft ships, upgrades, materials; having resources easily available; having crew at reasonable cost; having ships for sale at reasonable prices; having the possibility to acquire gold; etc.

Perhaps, my view will change by the time the wipe comes. We'll see.

Edited by Lannes
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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Admin already said this is coming.

Why should PVE grinders get everything? If you want the nice things you have to pay the iron price ;) I think I saw admin state they're done with giving away participation trophies. These PVP marks really work as motivation to go PVP, I think we need as much motivation as possible.

yah I hate they are even given them to PvE sever plaeyrs.  Just like any other game out there. If you want PvP or special mission gear than YOU HAVE TO DO THE PVP OR SPECIAL MISSIONS.  That are pay some one else to do it for you.  You should not get the easy way out.  Many games even lock these gears to your player so you can't grind them out for the PvE only players.

2 hours ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I am fine with the cost of items as they are now in Hotfix 4. I do believe though they need to add more resources however to create decent profit with doing trade. Currently there is very few trade goods to move and when you can move them there is very little profit. When I started out I accidentally messed up my gold and practically started with nothing which in turn is probably for the best because when server wipes do occur we start with nothing. I have been taking loans from others just to finance a few things and to keep up pace with everyone else. 

I can turn 600K into almost 2 Million with a 2 way trip.  So you can easly make money. I don't do this every day though or if I do it's one trip and only one trip.  What I do is I watch the shop and buy things until I get a full two LVG loads and than I make the trip.  I only buy the high profit returns goods.  La Tort takes Pirate goods and that what I do that with.  Than I pick up what ever is in shop to fill my ships and bring them back. I make most the profit giong one way, but still make a profit on the way back.   As capitals takek every good but that nations so it doesn't matter what I buy in La Tort.  

It just means you have to be more smarter about when and where you do your runs.  You can't just pop into a port and expect to instantly have goods there and make money.  In time on the live server this will prob be more replaced with players needing goods as I could make one product in a port, but a player is willing to pay if I bring it to there production ports.   I use to offer a killer for coal in Atwood (4 times market price) cause it was my staging hub before I took things to Kidds.   That way I can break any metal goods down before I hulled them to make them lighter and I could bring more.  It was mostly new players that filled that contract that only worked in that area, but they would bring a small load and get a nice pay out to help them keep playing.   And the port that had coal was just a skip over from me but took a shallow water ship.  Perfect for some new player to produce and run from.  

Over all I like the game in it's new form, there are a few things I don't like but I'l  live with them, but a few others I brought up in the furoms and waiting on answer.  Like why do pirates get 1 ship in the Admirl/Pirat Den Shop and all 7 other nations get 8 ships?  As long as we are being trated as a nation we should get the same treatment or give something as a perk back for us since we can't readly builds SOL's and the Aggy and no one ship isn't a perk over them.  Nor is Pirate vs Pirate.  That just means we can have fun kiling each other or policing folks that act out of line over what other nations can do.

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7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

yah I hate they are even given them to PvE sever plaeyrs.  Just like any other game out there. If you want PvP or special mission gear than YOU HAVE TO DO THE PVP OR SPECIAL MISSIONS.  That are pay some one else to do it for you.  You should not get the easy way out.  Many games even lock these gears to your player so you can't grind them out for the PvE only players.

I can turn 600K into almost 2 Million with a 2 way trip.  So you can easly make money. I don't do this every day though or if I do it's one trip and only one trip.  What I do is I watch the shop and buy things until I get a full two LVG loads and than I make the trip.  I only buy the high profit returns goods.  La Tort takes Pirate goods and that what I do that with.  Than I pick up what ever is in shop to fill my ships and bring them back. I make most the profit giong one way, but still make a profit on the way back.   As capitals takek every good but that nations so it doesn't matter what I buy in La Tort.  

It just means you have to be more smarter about when and where you do your runs.  You can't just pop into a port and expect to instantly have goods there and make money.  In time on the live server this will prob be more replaced with players needing goods as I could make one product in a port, but a player is willing to pay if I bring it to there production ports.   I use to offer a killer for coal in Atwood (4 times market price) cause it was my staging hub before I took things to Kidds.   That way I can break any metal goods down before I hulled them to make them lighter and I could bring more.  It was mostly new players that filled that contract that only worked in that area, but they would bring a small load and get a nice pay out to help them keep playing.   And the port that had coal was just a skip over from me but took a shallow water ship.  Perfect for some new player to produce and run from.  

Over all I like the game in it's new form, there are a few things I don't like but I'l  live with them, but a few others I brought up in the furoms and waiting on answer.  Like why do pirates get 1 ship in the Admirl/Pirat Den Shop and all 7 other nations get 8 ships?  As long as we are being trated as a nation we should get the same treatment or give something as a perk back for us since we can't readly builds SOL's and the Aggy and no one ship isn't a perk over them.  Nor is Pirate vs Pirate.  That just means we can have fun kiling each other or policing folks that act out of line over what other nations can do.

I stand corrected. Last time I checked the Dutch Capital there was only two trade resources there and they only formed a profit of just a little over a "K." Now the capital seems to be far more populated. Unfortunately the return trip back still yields little.

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14 hours ago, jodgi said:

 

Why should PVE grinders get everything? If you want the nice things you have to pay the iron price ;) I think I saw admin state they're done with giving away participation trophies. These PVP marks really work as motivation to go PVP, I think we need as much motivation as possible.

Your start from a false premise: I proposed that - also in PVP server - PVP players get A PART of nice things and PVE player get ANOTHER PART part of nice things ot that BOTH have the same (nice) rewards for doing different things.

As thing will stand after the patch goes live - in PVP servers - PVP players have just ALL the nice things and PVE players have just ... RUBBISH (Devs told in fact that in game there will be NO conversion at all of PVE marks in PVP marks).

So the real question is .... why should a PVE player be compelled into PVP action (and - also - succeed in it) just to be able to better play as he wants (PVE) and why - instead - a PVP player could have all the things that allow him to do better what he wants (PVP) just doing more and more what he wants (PVP)!

And, please, do not answer that this is a PVP game on PVP servers: the experience of the developing of other MMO games shows quite enough that PVE is an important part of the game (keeping up the population) even in PVP orienteed sandbox games (EVE online comes here as a perfect example). But until some players (and Devs) do not take heed from the lessons of the past, I guess the end will not be good.

Good luck, then, digital warriors. I hope you will gather a large enough playerbase (in each server) to placate your bloodthirst even without those slacking and coward PVErs.

"I hope you have a lot of nice things to wear (well ... equip) .... Ooohhh babe babe it's wild (but also huge) world"

PS: another thing I do not understand. If PVPers will have shiny things doing what they like, why shouldn't other players have as well the same shiny things doing what they like? What I propose it's a win/win scenario, after all. Otherwise I shall conclude that some answers are the result of some kind of "pride of the (digital) warrior" attitude or - trying to be positive - of the fact that PVPers really think that a part of the players could be willing to play a game also if they get nothing but becoming the cannon fodder of the other part of the players, that - for beating them - will receive shiny prizes. Who can tell? Well ... in both cases it is an attitude that I find very difficult to understand.

 

 

Edited by victor
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29 minutes ago, victor said:

Your start from a false premise

I'm fully open to the possibility.

My premise is that we had everything available to PVE grinders, we lived it and it's concequences are hard statistics. Now the devs have changed that into things being locked behind PVP marks you cannot directly aquire by PVE activities. It is however conceivable that PVP marks could be traded.

Why did the devs lock content behind PVP marks do you think?

I don't think they did it to spite PVE players, but I think they deemed it necessary to lay down some serious PVP motivators.

It seems to me the devs are trying to make OW more PVP than EVE ever was. It seems fair to state that Game-Labs aren't content with the EVE PVP/PVE ratio which leans heavily towards PVE.

Game-Labs have formulated a target audience or audiences and they are tweaking this game with that in mind. They have said that they want OW to mainly be a PVP environment. They have the PVE server for those who enjoy that and are making the arena version for those who enjoy PVP-on-demand.

It seems to me Game-Labs are moving away from enabling pure PVE players on the OW PVP servers. You and me can like or dislike that.

Please continue to fight for what you like, you might contribute to making the game more to your taste.

I will never shed a tear for the PVE woes so someone else has to carry that particular cross.

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27 minutes ago, Borch said:

some people wont be able to afford next loss in their PvP match. They will somehow need to rebuild their assets

Noone is taking that away, you can bully bots 24/7 if you so choose. Maybe these guys are told to stay away from connies, agas or line ships until they can compete?

31 minutes ago, Borch said:

PvE grinders are also a part of OW sailing players which provide "PvP grinders" with targets. Isnt that providing as much motivation as possible too?

Since you ask me the most fun thing is to meet someone who is willing and able to fight, PVE grinders can't sustain my motivation over longer periods of time. I will stress that this is my personal opinion.

We're talking about changes that are not on my account, mind you. If everything was hunky dory why, then, was it changed?

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Since you ask me the most fun thing is to meet someone who is willing and able to fight, PVE grinders can't sustain my motivation over longer periods of time. I will stress that this is my personal opinion.

 

Wow .... I'm sure that no one can stand your power. All the server is scared to the bone and will not dare to put a ship in the same waters where you dwell! Of course this means also that - in order to find someone really "willing and able" to fight with such a pro PVPer as you are - at the end of the story you will have to buy a second account and fight against yourself. This also brings with it the advantage that you will win each and every battle!

C'mon mate, get down here among us poor human players. We play for fun not to be the ultimate warrior of the seas. If you promise not to kill us all in a second with your laser gaze, maybe you could have fun also with us.

Edited by victor
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55 minutes ago, Borch said:

PvP players cant seem incomming fate of this game when limiting people only to PvP rewards.

I'm worried that the OW might not be a place for me too, but for wildly different reasons than you. The arena thing will be perfect for me, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in what happens to OW. 

58 minutes ago, Borch said:

Why population declined lately?

Congratulations on being confident about your perspective. Especially since crew mechanics and non-capturable AI isn't tied to PVP exclusively, one of those things isn't even implemented on live yet and insta close timers were reverted back to (IMO) too long timers.

 

1 hour ago, Borch said:

Again, I dont ask PvE to reward same amount as PvP but it has to reward something.

That's exactly how it is now on testbed. A PVE player has access to the majority of gameplay activities, items and rewards. PVE rewards are something, just not everything anymore.

35 minutes ago, victor said:

<sperg>

Good, get it out... 

I'm sorry if what I said sounded like a challenge or an insult, it was not my intent. We can continue discussing the issue, if you like?

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6 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Good, get it out... 

I'm sorry if what I said sounded like a challenge or an insult, it was not my intent. We can continue discussing the issue, if you like?

Nah, It's all right. I was not offended at all (besides the fact I know you are a good PVP player, better than me for sure). :)

You know I'm an old european man so I am used to strong debates and thus, from time to time, I just like to use my irony in forum wars. Actually I get your point, but the "elitist" attitude in which you expressed it made me laugh a bit, so I tried to take a little revenge!

Edited by victor
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Chop and change, change and chop. What would have happened to the David if Michelangelo started with that huge block of stone and ended up with a hand-size marble figurine? :D

Edited by Lannes
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