Limiting SoLs

[Taranis]

Instead of docks, why not have command points that allow you to have ships - then you leave it up to the players to decide what ship types they have in ports.  Thus SOLs that require more command points would be limited in their numbers.  Another way of simply limiting the number of 1st rates would be to have players allowed to only have 1 1st rate at a time.

[Liq]

I'm in general not a fan of setting a limit to what you can obtain.

Admin stated it'd take 2-4 weeks to get a L'ocean, for example, crafted. Should be tough enough for now.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Liquicity

[Anolytic]

Reducing the number of ports that most SoLs could enter in to could help. I.e not able to enter freetowns and even only able to enter ports with the deepest drafts (current Lineship vs 4th rate ports or make a 3rd draft in addition to the shallow and deep that we have now).

Your idea is also interesting. Although, to your second suggestion, how would someone craft a lineship for another player if they already own one 1st rate and they can only possess 1 at a time?

[Taranis]

39 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Reducing the number of ports that most SoLs could enter in to could help. I.e not able to enter freetowns and even only able to enter ports with the deepest drafts (current Lineship vs 4th rate ports or make a 3rd draft in addition to the shallow and deep that we have now).

Your idea is also interesting. Although, to your second suggestion, how would someone craft a lineship for another player if they already own one 1st rate and they can only possess 1 at a time?

Good points.  So, limit the number of 1st rates to 2 then, if we opt for the simple solution (ie: not using command points).  Though other solutions could involve the use of clan docks, perhaps (now that we have a much tighter limit on the number of ships in play). 

[Fenris]

I am wondering why are so many obsessed with an idea of limiting the SOLs.

Even now,before the update there are so many crafted, and very small amount of players is using them.Although relatively easy to make, still, losing a one, is a painful matter.

So even if they are limited, everyone would still try to craft or gain one.

So if those big boats are not able to enter each port,and especially if they cannot be stored at Free ports, that would satisfy the most.

 

[Sven Silberbart]

I am supporting a limit to SoLs. Why? I want to make it like a special moment if you sink or capture an enemy SoL. If everyone is sailing such a ship and is having multiple of them at different ports, then there is nothing special. Then it is a ship like every other ship. I dont want to see big player groups with mostly 1st rates inside. I want to see more or mostly support frigates in such groups. It makes the gameplay more interesting, because of different ship types.

[Fenris]

Just now, Custard said:

@ First Point

Because in reality they were as rare as rocking horse poo and I think they should be ingame

@Second Point

I do not understand what you are trying to say apart from the last, it is clearly not painful enough it should be bad news for a Nation if a 1st Rate is lost let alone a player

Ok, once again for all of them sitting behind...

I could, right now, without any limitations, craft 5 SOLs at PvP1. Besides 7 or 8 i still have. And still would not use them all the time or each time i sail out. And most players don`t use SOLs like they use other ships.

It is part of human nature to hoard and gather things. Not to spend them away.

Means, even if i am able to "throw" 1st rates away, i don`t, and even if i am able to sail and lose each day a 1st rate, i don`t.

 

[Fargo]

Wait for the new eco balancing. With less income, no gold exploits and reworked ship cost balancing, maybe were going to have a nice 3rd rate meta.

For those still not understanding that artificial restrictions are bad for this game, they really are. Restrict first rates from entering ports and the first rate fleets will sit infront of the ports. Restrict the amount of ships per player and people will stack resources instead of ships. This is not solving anything, just shifting the problem.

[Taranis]

42 minutes ago, Fenris said:

I am wondering why are so many obsessed with an idea of limiting the SOLs.

Even now,before the update there are so many crafted, and very small amount of players is using them.Although relatively easy to make, still, losing a one, is a painful matter.

So even if they are limited, everyone would still try to craft or gain one.

So if those big boats are not able to enter each port,and especially if they cannot be stored at Free ports, that would satisfy the most.

 

Well in all fairness we have suggested other solutions before - like having BPs be based on total BR per side, rather than ship class limitation, as a means of fostering variety.

My suggestion was in straight reaction to the admin stating that 1st rates should become a statue/prestige thing, and otherwise expressing concern over the abundance of 1st rates.

[Fenris]

4 minutes ago, Taranis said:

Well in all fairness we have suggested other solutions before - like having BPs be based on total BR per side, rather than ship class limitation, as a means of fostering variety.

My suggestion was in straight reaction to the admin stating that 1st rates should become a statue/prestige thing, and otherwise expressing concern over the abundance of 1st rates.

The only way to limit the USE of 1st rates is to limit the number of ports which they can enter.

You can`t limit their numbers or make them "uncraftable". That would not be good for the game.

Players always try to achieve the highest possible goal, and one of them is sailing and being able to craft a SOL.

 

[Taranis]

4 minutes ago, Fenris said:

The only way to limit the USE of 1st rates is to limit the number of ports which they can enter.

You can`t limit their numbers or make them "uncraftable". That would not be good for the game.

Players always try to achieve the highest possible goal, and one of them is sailing and being able to craft a SOL.

 

I am not a fan of hard caps - I think that you can promote a balance through other incentives.  At the moment there is no cost to maintain SOLs - suggest that a  number of times.  At the moment deep port 1st rates promote the use of 25 1st rates per side.  The way things are going, we will see a reversion to very rare BP drops for 1st rates - which would not be great IMHO.

[Taranis]

10 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Wait for the changes to crafting before asking for more limits.

I am not asking for more limits - just suggesting an alternative to a course of actions already expressed by the admin that would be (IMHO) even more detrimental.

I for one want to eventually be able to craft any ship and play any ship.  I also assume that I am not unique in that.  It is a separate matter to think that all players should have up to 20 1st rates at their docks at all times and that this would be healthy for the game.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Taranis

[elite92]

step 1: make a line ship (especially a 1st rate) worth the time and effort spent to get it, a frigate should not be able to 1v1 a line ship and survive.

step 2: limit the line ship per captain.

u cant invert the step, cause line ship are already nerfed as hell, frigates masts are almost indestructible, they bounce a lot of shots with little angle, they camp ur ass and they will sink u thx to new "structure thing".

so first u need to make line ship a real terror for frigates, then u can limit them. otherwise no point to limit cause no1 use them to PvP in OW at least in small groups.

who the hell would cry for weeks to get a 1 dura 1st rate that can be stolen easily by a frigate that camp u and board u?

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Anolytic said:

Reducing the number of ports that most SoLs could enter in to could help. I.e not able to enter freetowns and even only able to enter ports with the deepest drafts (current Lineship vs 4th rate ports or make a 3rd draft in addition to the shallow and deep that we have now).

Your idea is also interesting. Although, to your second suggestion, how would someone craft a lineship for another player if they already own one 1st rate and they can only possess 1 at a time?

I brought this up before that they should only be ported at ports that are deep enough for them so ones that are for line ship battles and well maybe a few others that aren't capital ports.  This would limited them to only certain fronts and area.  I don't think there should be any other limit other than making them rare and hard to craft so it will take a player a good while to get up to that level by himself but still a good bit of work for a clan too.  

1 hour ago, Fenris said:

The only way to limit the USE of 1st rates is to limit the number of ports which they can enter.

You can`t limit their numbers or make them "uncraftable". That would not be good for the game.

Players always try to achieve the highest possible goal, and one of them is sailing and being able to craft a SOL.

 

As state above limit there docking/perm docking to only ports that can hold such a ship and only ports your nation owns.

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Wait for the changes to crafting before asking for more limits.

Yah I'm  all for talking about changes, but we haven't even seen the new crafting stuff yet on testbed.  So lets wait and see how the limits are going to effect us.

[Sir Texas Sir]

43 minutes ago, elite92 said:

step 1: make a line ship (especially a 1st rate) worth the time and effort spent to get it, a frigate should not be able to 1v1 a line ship and survive.

step 2: limit the line ship per captain.

u cant invert the step, cause line ship are already nerfed as hell, frigates masts are almost indestructible, they bounce a lot of shots with little angle, they camp ur ass and they will sink u thx to new "structure thing".

so first u need to make line ship a real terror for frigates, then u can limit them. otherwise no point to limit cause no1 use them to PvP in OW at least in small groups.

who the hell would cry for weeks to get a 1 dura 1st rate that can be stolen easily by a frigate that camp u and board u?

If your solo than you should be in trouble, but the problem is folks shouldn't be out by there selves with a 1st rate.  The number one way we have caught so many 1st rates over on PvP2 was folks would run and leave them behind.  Well next thing you know our little group of frigates are doing a circle jerk around that 1st rate until we can board and capture it.  It's not our fault all his buddies left him behind.  1st rates should never be sailed alone.   They should have escorts and support.  This is what I hope to see when they become more rare to see out.  Though I do think they should be more deadly too.  IF they have the escorts to keep frigates off it's stern they should be doing deadly damage to any other ships that they might face other than other SOL's

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

3 hours ago, PYR said:

I love lynx ... but frigates are too strong for lynx.... why not limit the number of fregate too.....

Because 5th rates were really frequent, like 3rd rates; 1st and 2nd very rare.

Easy :-)

I think it's possible limit 1st and 2nd rates, but not the 3rd.

Edited April 19, 2017 by JeanJacques de Montpellier

[Mirones]

the only reason we had so many firsts up until now is because gold became so worthless over time by compasswood and other exploit farming.

[Kpt Lautenschlaeger]

Turning this thing on its head: I grew up with narratives that had 74s (i.e 3rd rates) as the working horse battleship of the Napoleonic wars. With frigates (4th and 5th) being the main combatants in the war of 1812.

So I would really like to see either an incentive or a cap that induces major engagements to be between 3rd rates predominantly, with the occasional 2nd and 1st strewn in for variety.

After all, Trafalgar only had one Santi and one Vickie, innit?  

[elite92]

5 hours ago, Rickard said:

 what whould you guys think about this ?? to make a system where you can only take a couple 1st rates based on the fleet you wanna bring.

and no this would not only be posible for lobby based systems (Wich i think are boring), you just need to know and discuss what composition the fleet will be ,like we do now by choosing to bring a mortar brig, Loceans or the santisima. 

i also think this system would fit the "Hard Core" game style realy good since the devs want this game to become a hard core game.

 

I would propose for Deep water and Regional capital port battles : 

- 1 or 2 1st Rates ships 

- 2 or 3 2nd Rates ships

- 3 or 4 3rd Rates ships

- 4 or 5 4th Rates ships

- 5 or 6 5th Rates ships

 15 to 20 higher Rate ships can be used(1st Rates to 5th Rates)

- no regulations on 6th Rates ships and lower

i ve made this proposal like 4 times, but devs struggle with port battle organization and with slot system cause in this way we will need a lobby pre-PB to fill each slot available otherwise if 20 ppl come with 3rd rates the pb will be empty and thus this is not viable , they dont want any type of lobby anymore.

and dont try to say: one commander can organize differents slot in nation chat or ts cause casuals will f..k all the effort and flame will begin.

he tooks my spot weeeee crying ecc... figure it in ur mind.

in the lobby game Naval Action Arena instead with a nice lobby and matchmaking this will be possible and will be awesome: just queue with ur fav ship

[elite92]

6 minutes ago, Rickard said:

i disagree strongly. 

we have been organizing PBs with specific ships for a long time like i stated.

I keep with this statement ;

and no this would not only be posible for lobby based systems (Wich i think are boring), you just need to know and discuss what composition the fleet will be ,like we do now by choosing to bring a mortar brig, Loceans or the santisima. 

i also think this system would fit the "Hard Core" game style realy good since the devs want this game to become a hard core game.

 

Furthermore this is just a statement a non-clan member could only make :otherwise if 20 ppl come with 3rd rates the pb will be empty clans and nations have for a very long time now created rules of there own to organise PBs the best way, Randomly showing up with 20 3rd rates (other then screening) to a PB where only a few are allowed is just stupid and not appreciated by any clan.

lets talk again when , 2 or 3 months from now, u will finally have ur 1st rate and u have ur spot (only 1 ) in the pb. then another player join the pb and steal ur spot.

whats now?