ships Galleons and their respective variants.

[Tim Cutter]

    There is a great number of ships available in the current game, plenty to play around with. And forgive me if I am ignorant to the plans to add these or potentially as many ships as the developers can handle, but I think these ships are so beautiful and versatile that they should be singled out for special attention in the shipyards.

     Their versatility comes in that they are warships, but can be fast (as in the race-built) as well as strong, or they can serve as all but impregnable gunships with more cannons than King Georges army and enough cargo space to start a small economy off of. For a pop-culture reference; the Pirates of the Caribbean featured a race-built Galleon that specialized in chasing her prey up-wind until she inevitably caught them... That legendary vessel is the Flying Dutchman.

    From a tactical point of view these ships will offer a wide range of possibilities for players to experiment with from hunting cocky little Lynx's or living a merchants life in a ship as tough as a concrete fortresses, they could bridge gaps where rage-quits and salt stood before.

[BungeeLemming]

Galleons didnt see much -if any- servicetime in the game's timeframe. Which is 1680 to 1820 +/-5years.

However these shpidesigns already died during the 17th century and to the 1700 year only the spanish had a few left which served as treasure ships. -- Actually to sail to the caribbean and back^^ (and IIRC only!)

Galleons were build when the focus of the fight was boarding action. But the naval gunnery became more deadly and the nations (britain at first) also understood that sailing performance was needed. Spanish - fit for boarding. Dull sailing warships - bad artillery. And then the british who understood the need of long range artillery and exploited that with the addition of their "race build" galleon ship designs. What happened is that they reduced forecastle and quarterdeck to build better sailing ships. And that proved to be the right desicion.

Thats basically it to this shiptype. It eventually evolved into the ship of the line. Very pretty looking designs of all nations - noticably the dutch with the famous famous "de 7 provincien". What a beauty

->

 

Moved the Spanish Armada discussion to this new thread:  

Please stay on topic in this thread - would the game be better with galleons in it? 

[monk33y]

I didn't relise the victory saw service in the Caribbean!!!!  We are not a historic game ffs

[BungeeLemming]

Not sure where you read that into my post. I explicitely wrote that these ships did see service in the caribbean. Unlike other of our ingame vessels. Nowhere did I imply this is a must have for our igame ships. If you want a list of ships which never served in the caribbeans: ontario, mercury, pavel, victory, Ingermanland, Wapen von Hamburg.. the list is long.

What I said is that these ships are out of the game's timeframe. Give me an example against it and I am fine.

But what you wrote shows me that you didnt read my post correctly.

hence why I reply so harsh right now. (using "!!!!!!" is not common tone for me)

[monk33y]

And I state again. We have ships that were not even being built Durring this time period! So I state again naval action Is not a historic game, it's a game! I'd welcome new ships like 99% of us would 

It's a gd idea keep them coming! 

[Hethwill]

It is a game based on credible historic data, from ship plans to territorial holdings in the west indies, spanish main and southern young united states.

The same way I do not see UFOs in a combat flight sim depicting the Battle of Britain I cannot picture ghost ships in two centuries of naval warfare in the caribbean.

Galleons !? By 1670 they were way behind in timeline.

[OlavDeng2]

43 minutes ago, monk33y said:

And I state again. We have ships that were not even being built Durring this time period! So I state again naval action Is not a historic game, it's a game! I'd welcome new ships like 99% of us would 

It's a gd idea keep them coming! 

Which ships to we have that were not even built during the game period of the game?

[Snoopy]

1 hour ago, monk33y said:

I didn't relise the victory saw service in the Caribbean!!!!  We are not a historic game ffs

She sailed there at least once..

[Vernon Merrill]

Not to mention that the basic premise is wrong...  A "Galleon" will NEVER outsail a Lynx.  Well maybe straight downwind in a 70-knot gale, but....,

Besides, isn't the Ingermanland close enough with that tres-gauche stern?!?

[maturin]

2 hours ago, monk33y said:

I didn't relise the victory saw service in the Caribbean!!!!  We are not a historic game ffs

Victory did see service in the Caribbean.

[_Masterviolin]

Sorry for off-topic response, edited!

Galleons are not merely an older version of the game's ships, but an entirely different vessel. They represented an old era of naval warfare based on boarding tactics that is simply incompatible with the game. Galleons were slow, poor sailors brimming with soldiers to board other galleons and carry them in that action. Naval Action's ships are designed for sailing and gunnery performance, with 1650-1820 naval tactics in mind. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by _Masterviolin

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I'll add that the armament on those galleons was pitiful compared to the ships we feature in the game.  They'd be outsailed, outgunned, and flat out outclassed in every situation.

There's a reason we didn't see them being used seriously in warfare by the game's period - they were quaint little relics of a bygone age.  It would be like putting an F-86 Saber into a game that featured modern jet fighters - the Saber would be little bits of confetti 5 seconds into every combat round.

[Tim Cutter]

8 hours ago, Rickard said:

all ships in game have been chosen because they fit in the games Timeframe.

But to be fair, we didn't have fleets of HMS Victories or Bellonas sailing about like we do in-game. But surviving Galleons did take to the sea sometimes even though they were outdated. One particular advantage a civilian merchant might seek is her armament of oars commonly used to aid in up-wind sailing.

[Preble]

Also don't forget--Victory came to the Carribbean as part of the Trafalgar Campaign, searching for the French fleet which had set out on its great transatlantic evasive maneuver before returning to Europe to fight the decisive action on 21 October.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

20 hours ago, Tim Cutter said:

But to be fair, we didn't have fleets of HMS Victories or Bellonas sailing about like we do in-game. But surviving Galleons did take to the sea sometimes even though they were outdated. One particular advantage a civilian merchant might seek is her armament of oars commonly used to aid in up-wind sailing.

No, but those ships did exist and were used with varying degrees of success during the game's time period.

Galleons were extremely dull sailers compared to the ships in our game.  Even sweeping upwind could be better accomplished by the other, smaller vessels we have in game - and if we're going to make an argument for sweeps, then we could make an easy argument for galleys instead.  That said, sweeping only works when there isn't a lot of wind - any ship such as a galleon with that degree of windage (and leeway) isn't going to be sweeping much of anywhere any time soon - anyone they were sweeping towards could easily sail off on a reach, leaving the galleon standing.

There were no real "race built galleons" that could run down a Lynx.  There wasn't a galleon sailing that could catch a modern ship of war at the time - likely not even a merchant vessel.  The technology used in their construction, sail plan, rigging, etc. was outdated and meant that they couldn't point nearly as high as even Victory, and couldn't run with a comparable speed either.  The cannon they carried were puny and underpowered as well - in anything but a boarding fight they would be guaranteed to lose against a captain that knew to keep his/her distance.

What you're asking for is to take a vessel that had been retired for any serious warfare for nearly a hundred years, and to use game mechanics to buff it into something it never was, and never could be, to do things they couldn't do.  This is great for a Pirates of the Caribbean style game, where kraken and sea monsters and ships that never existed (nor could exist) is the norm, but not for Naval Action, which strives to be historically accurate, within reason and with license given when necessary for good gameplay and fun.  Galleons with specialized tasks to make them competitive are just a step too far.

[Pad Seayew]

Those who sail without oars stay on good terms with the wind.  Heh...imagine the crew cost for poor galley slaves.

Hey, might make a fun mini game liberating your galley prisoners?   (I kid)

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Boarding beast or no, it would still have to be able to close with its enemy.  The hull shape, sails, etc. don't lend themselves to competitive sailing qualities.

In the end, it's not my decision, but personally I think there are lots of more deserving ships that are in the time period that I'd like to see implemented before ships that weren't even used in combat during Naval Action's timeframe.

[OneEyedSnake]

I would love to see Galleons in the game simply because of their beauty, nothing to do with war tactics, but as bought ships that have boarding bonuses and are eye candy, i mean NA has such an incredible graphics engine might as well as a side project after release. 

[Pad Seayew]

I agree with Henry, there are so many more deserving ships that could be introduced.