Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

A letter to Snow Flake, The Truth Hurts


JobaSet

Recommended Posts

29 minutes ago, Zooloo said:

Yes we agree on many thinks im very sure of this. Why are we fighting right now ? Because you don't adress the improvements the game needs in a very positive way. And also because i have my nerves and i dont like to receive t-shirts ;) Come on everyone loves the Carebears lol But i'll take the hand you offer and make peace if you want it, i share your frustration with the game problems and we shouldn't escalate like that.

About the RoE, i sugested several time a full open battles system with a spawn distance depending on time of arrival.  Problem here is depending on wind and what way your heading after start of fight if you know what you are doing (Note got to have people in battle that know how to do this and tell them were to com in on) you can still land right on top of them. We did it with the 1 circle all the time. we do this now with the 2 circles. Kind of fun to look like you are running then have even numbers. and kill every one.The later you join the fight the farther you spawn. It would allow big fights, give a chance to the outmatched party to attempt an escape, and the reinforced forces could try to slow the escapers. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

I agree with Joba when he said that the dynamic of both servers is the same ( very few hardcore pvpers, about 30% average pvpers and the rest carebears) The only difference being the numbers .The  proportion is the same.

This game is a lot better than we think. About a year ago, I played in pvp1 with over 2000 players online and it was great. The game had a lot more limitations back then but they hardly got in the way of you having fun. There was so much to do!!!

All we need is more people, a lot more people!!! If the amount of people avoiding pvp as much as possible decreased it would make it even better.

With 1 durability ships and no upgrades or officer lives, maybe in the long term, people will be less afraid to fight and less afraid of losing their stuff.

Last thing I have to say is get rid of the alliances!!! It killed pvp2  and messed up pvp1 as well (bigger population being the only thing that made it last this long)

Yea i been on pvp1 under a different name for about a week now.  Its just numbers real close to the same break down if you went % wise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Skokauckas said:

Well lads besides the fireworks on this post providing excellent reading and reflection, it did afford me an added bonus...now I know what the hell a "CareBear" is...!!!   ?

dont tell everyone but Naval action loves its carebears

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

How about bringing back the old tag circle. Cut down the number of AI fleets greatly. Get rid of the stupid forts except on a few major ports. Have ships open world speed match their in battle speeds. Don't start that 2 minute exit timer until ships have made it 2000 meters from the attackers. Keep battles open till they're done. 5 minutes till you get kicked from battle results screen to open world and 5 minutes to get kicked from an empty battle. Let hostility rise from sitting in the open world and blockading a port with a port battle as soon as a limit is reached. In the port battle one big circle that everyone fights in. Attackers bombard the city and if the defenders don't stop them they lose.

I second that!

 

12 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

You do know an LGV with 80br probably cannot counter tag a Connie. So if you can get up closer, reset your tag. Plus an LGV is one of the few ships that can pretty much escape anything. Best bet if you are LGV hunting, use a surprise (fir built for hunting traders). 

Nope. LGV has 100 BR which means it can tag anything 500 or below. Can definitely tag a Connie (250 BR). Also traders tend to take their fleet with them so ships like Surprise can't tag them.

 

10 hours ago, Zooloo said:

Sure let's go back to battlescreen camping... Come on it was the most stupid way to "play" a game i had ever seen. you talk about dumping cargo beeing not realistic - and i agree to this - same applies to players calling counter gank squad with a futuristic radio chat and time warp in open world.

If you dont want a TP back to friendly port then we need a 1/2 min invisibility + not allowed to initiate / join battles.

Look man, battlescreen camping is an issue and no one argues about that. Our vision of sorting this problem is to remove Teleport AND remove exit to OW timer which prevents the entry to OW after timer is expired. Instead what @Duncan McFail said - 5 minute timer that kicks you out of battle screen into the open world COMPULSORY! Of course you can exit any time before that too.
Also for this to work properly as intended all ships in the OW needs to match their setups in battle instances so if you have faster ship than your enemy in the battle instance it should also be able to be faster in the OW. Taking into account speeds in the open world, considerably faster. Not 0.5kn or 1kn when ships speed go 25kn and its impossible to catch between ports. But be around 3 kn difference would be sufficient and not OP.

 

7 hours ago, Zooloo said:

This is BS. NA is a multiplayer game that emulates the life of sailors blablabla etc. Ships were sailing "solo" very often. It's the way i like to play, it's part of the game design and i don't care if you don't like it.

I've never been waiting, but i happened to take a break after a fight while 2 to 20 people were waiting outside, and i felt sorry for them. It was just bad game design combined with standart human behaviour. Kicking players to open see after battles is no solution. There's no reason for me to risk to be ganked after every duel i play. It would not be realistic, and it would not be a good game mechanism.

Now bring constructive critiscim to the game, with ideas that can work for every playstyles the game was designed for and give up with the rants, the arrogance and the shit talks.

I'm not playing solo, i'm sailing alone in a multiplayer game, i'm playing with my beloved opponents. And i'll keep playing like that so you can paint your ideas about how the game should be on your stupid t-shirt, wear it yourself and look like the fool you are.

That's right man, but what you are missing is that @JobaSet and myself are mostly solo players. We sail solo. We also get ganked all the time so ARE in the same boat as everybody else who are their on their own. Still prefer to have forever open timers. I for one do not gank people. This is not my style. Sometimes I end up being in the gank squad, but this is something that happens when you have friends following you, but never myself I call out to clan mates to jump battle instances 1vs25.

So we sail solo and NOT complaining about the fact that we are being ganked time to time. It should be like that. There are OTHER means to balance ganking than closing battle instances and denying players PVP or team support etc.
Those other mechanics that would help with the constant ganking issue are:
1. Green zones around Free ports same as capitals;
2. Removal of GPS so no one can pin point locations. Instead introduce celestial navigation. All it is, is a button that when you click after 5 minutes it shows your approximate location of a size of PVP Event zone. So you can't get lost, but you also can't pin point your location and get gank squads to travel across half of the map.

See you can address those issues without even touching the battle timers.


14 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

On everything else, I agree with everything but forever open timers. If teleports are removed, longer timers but still not forever open would be fine. Players in battle cannot see what is happening on the open world. Battle instances are the fault but cannot be avoided.  

Yeah this is another issue solution to which can be added to the list above:
3. Anyone who joins the battle if they where OUTSIDE the visible range from the TARGET when he got tagged, after clicking the JOIN button they have to wait 2 minutes before they can join the battle. So they just have to sit outside the battle and wait being all exposed for attacks too. Everyone in the battle instance got notification that more ships are incoming (representing the fact that they would have been seen in the OW during the battle).

Again no battle timers or insta closing battles are needed to sort that issue.


 

5 hours ago, Liquicity said:

So simply because that applies to you you assume it to be the same for everyone?

It also applies to me and pretty much our entire clan. It also applies to thousands of those players who left the game because they couldn't deal with all these carebearness.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who don't know, here is my playstyle: I will hunt PVP, whether I'm alone (as is often the case), with a small group, or with a large group, I will look for PVP. I have perfected my shipbuilding technique to give me a fleet of vessels suitable for this playstyle. When I'm alone, I sail a fast ship so I can catch the targets that run, and escape the target's I can't outgun. I usually run one or two AI to help me distract the enemy AI or even-up the fight for me, or just in some cases doing all the boring chaining work for me :ph34r:.  When I'm in a group, I'm comfortable in any role, whether it be the fast tagger, the tough brawler, or the in-between support frigate.

Now, I'll say this about the battle mechanics:

1. Tagging: tagging is difficult because open world speeds are EXTREMELY similar across most ships. I have a couple speedy (13+ knot) ships (Bellona and Ingermanland) that would easily catch a tough (read: live oak and slow) second or third rate in battle, but in open world, I have a hard time catching them. This needs to be fixed so that the ships fastest in battle, are also the ships fastest in open world. This will help to solve several problems, but most notably this one:

          Counter tag: if I'm fast enough to catch you in open world and you counter tag me, I'll still be catching you with good speed as the timer counts down to battle, not hovering at the very edge of the tag circle, slowly inching towards you [the way it is now]. 

2. Running and chasing in combat: laser-guided stern cannons and drunk gunnery crews on the forecastle currently ensure escape if you know how to make an effective counter tag while upwind of your opponent. This should not be the case. Here is my proposal: give ALL ships bow and stern chasers (I have been planning to start another thread detailing this further). Why give all ships bow and stern chasers? Because any ship could mount them, all you need to do is move a broadside gun over. Its really not rocket science people. Do not favor one end of the ship having better gunnery crews--give the same accuracy at either end!--(people can say the stern is the most stable all they would like, it is simply not true: the bow has a pitch and yaw from waves and the stern is quite similar, often rolling just as much as the bow). 

3. A new type of control perk is default and effective to 2000 yards. If you are inside 2000 yards, you cannot escape for 10 minutes, if you are outside 2000 yards, you can escape any time unless you are somehow tagged (or sinking/on fire), then you have an escape timer, similar to what is used now, except the timer is 5 minutes instead of 2. A second feature to this is the ability to "allow escape" if you want to allow your opponent to leave combat, you hit that button and he has no timer and no control perk applied to him, he can leave if he so chooses. If you are being chased and want to leave, you can turn on your "allow escape" button (won't do anything but notify your enemy he can leave if he wishes to), but unless your enemy toggles his as well, you cannot leave until you have outran the 2000 yard control perk, or spent 10 minutes inside 2000 yards without being tagged.

4. Battles open for how long? The best solution that I have heard, IMO, would be battles open for 5 minutes for anybody who was within the draw distance (sight distance) so if you are sailing together, you can fight together, but you can't just pop out of port and join a battle, that is not sailing together. In addition, the timer is 2 minutes open to the rest of the players (who were not in draw distance) this allows people who happened to be sailing by your battle the ability to jump in and fight, but still prevents people from jumping out of port and into combat. I don't like a forever-open battle because of the time compression in open world, people who were not even online in the game can jump on and hop into an open world PVP fight that they had nothing to do with starting...something about that bothers me. 

5. Teleport to friendly port. In my opinion, this was one of the best features implemented to ROE, it ends the problem of people camping battle screens and logging out in battle for fear of the massive counter-gank. If you escaped the ship, you don't have to escape it 8 more times as you hop your way from one instance to another towards port.  It was a great idea, but due to the current mechanics flaws I pointed out earlier with open world speed discrepancy and the ever-present counter-tag, it has become a "get out of jail free card" for almost anyone who wants to run. If you make it so that I can catch you in open world as well as I can catch you in battle, and give me a reasonable chance of keeping you in that battle, you are going to be caught. If I can't catch you in open world, or if you can out-sail or out-smart me, then you have nothing to fear. 

     Now, I know how often that button is used for moving goods around, and that is unfortunate, but until some better method to      end the battle screen camping is thought of, it seems to me to be the best strategy.

6. Signalling: it is a fine perk, If it keeps the fight open for 10 minutes to all friendlies to join in to even up the BR, up to 100 BR above the enemy's.

GET RID OF THE RIDICULOUS AI FLEETS! WHY ARE THERE MULTIPLE FLEETS OF 25 SHIPS OF THE LINE SAILING ABOUT IF THERE IS NO HOSTILITY BEING RAISED!?! For goodness sake, limit the standard AI fleet patrols to something like 8 frigates or 2 SOL's and 3 frigates (that would be a more rare one) sailing about. Increasing the number of AI traders and sixth rates is fine, it gives the (almost) empty open world some sails for us to enjoy, and some targets for the low-level guys :)

Just my $ .02 plus some change, not trying to offend anyone.

EDIT: I see several of my sailing buddies have posted similar ideas: @koltes and @Duncan McFail.  My ideas are quite similar on some points, but have some differences on others, I honestly think any adaption of these ideas would be better than the current system...

Edited by Willis PVP2
Giving credit where it is due to people who posted with similar ideas while I was wording mine in my head and typing it out :)
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Willis PVP2 said:

1. Tagging: tagging is difficult because open world speeds are EXTREMELY similar across most ships. I have a couple speedy (13+ knot) ships (Bellona and Ingermanland) that would easily catch a tough (read: live oak and slow) second or third rate in battle, but in open world, I have a hard time catching them. This needs to be fixed so that the ships fastest in battle, are also the ships fastest in open world. This will help to solve several problems, but most notably this one:
Counter tag: if I'm fast enough to catch you in open world and you counter tag me, I'll still be catching you with good speed as the timer counts down to battle, not hovering at the very edge of the tag circle, slowly inching towards you [the way it is now].

Yes definitely agree on the ship speeds issue. OW speeds dont match Instance speeds. They need to work out percentage difference and apply it to OW.
 

2. Running and chasing in combat: laser-guided stern cannons and drunk gunnery crews on the forecastle currently ensure escape if you know how to make an effective counter tag while upwind of your opponent. This should not be the case. Here is my proposal: give ALL ships bow and stern chasers (I have been planning to start another thread detailing this further). Why give all ships bow and stern chasers? Because any ship could mount them, all you need to do is move a broadside gun over. Its really not rocket science people. Do not favor one end of the ship having better gunnery crews--give the same accuracy at either end!--(people can say the stern is the most stable all they would like, it is simply not true: the bow has a pitch and yaw from waves and the stern is quite similar, often rolling just as much as the bow).
Agree and disagree. We need to have an OPTION to put chasers on and this is what I agree with. Not a compulsory thing. Devs already said that they will want to have a cargo hold that can carry certain amount/weight of everything. Putting chasers in front should be captains choose of ships setup to address certain purpose. Thus remove some space from cargo, requires more people to man etc. While traders will never need bow chasers so don't have to use them.


3. A new type of control perk is default and effective to 2000 yards. If you are inside 2000 yards, you cannot escape for 10 minutes, if you are outside 2000 yards, you can escape any time unless you are somehow tagged (or sinking/on fire), then you have an escape timer, similar to what is used now, except the timer is 5 minutes instead of 2. A second feature to this is the ability to "allow escape" if you want to allow your opponent to leave combat, you hit that button and he has no timer and no control perk applied to him, he can leave if he so chooses. If you are being chased and want to leave, you can turn on your "allow escape" button (won't do anything but notify your enemy he can leave if he wishes to), but unless your enemy toggles his as well, you cannot leave until you have outran the 2000 yard control perk, or spent 10 minutes inside 2000 yards without being tagged.
Agree with that, just think that Duncan's idea in regards the actual timers is better. While within 2000 meters there is no timer. When they have made it past 2000m 2 min timer kicks in. Simple.
Also very much like your idea of mutual disengagement. Sort of like Surrender button without surrender and both have to do it in order for it to work.
On that note I want to add that Surrender should be reworked completely. Right now Surrender denies winner the kill. While in reality this needs to be Surrender to winners mercy. The winner should be able to see the cargo, the crew, upgrades etc and decide if they want to be a nasty scum pirate and slaughter all crew and the captain and thus get his Murder reputation up or ask for ransom and let the crew and the captain go. Or agree on something else whatever. But all done by player's interaction.
I know for a fact that 99% of pirates will not get any mercy from Nation players, but I for example would love to get a trader in the battle, fire warning shots and order them to drop sail. Inspect their cargo and decide to let them go if there is nothing of interest.
 

4. Battles open for how long? The best solution that I have heard, IMO, would be battles open for 5 minutes for anybody who was within the draw distance (sight distance) so if you are sailing together, you can fight together, but you can't just pop out of port and join a battle, that is not sailing together. In addition, the timer is 2 minutes open to the rest of the players (who were not in draw distance) this allows people who happened to be sailing by your battle the ability to jump in and fight, but still prevents people from jumping out of port and into combat. I don't like a forever-open battle because of the time compression in open world, people who were not even online in the game can jump on and hop into an open world PVP fight that they had nothing to do with starting...something about that bothers me.
You are forgetting about the players who have sailed together, but were outside the view range. This happens alot ALSO because of the fast speed travel and the fact that when catching a prey we sometimes have to stretch our fleet. But doing so also denies other the entry. I see this as an issue. They were sailing together, just forced to be further away to find the prey. Still cant fight the same battles.
Port camping will be 90% obsolete if we get a green zone of visual distance around all Free Ports.

 

5. Teleport to friendly port. In my opinion, this was one of the best features implemented to ROE, it ends the problem of people camping battle screens and logging out in battle for fear of the massive counter-gank. If you escaped the ship, you don't have to escape it 8 more times as you hop your way from one instance to another towards port.  It was a great idea, but due to the current mechanics flaws I pointed out earlier with open world speed discrepancy and the ever-present counter-tag, it has become a "get out of jail free card" for almost anyone who wants to run. If you make it so that I can catch you in open world as well as I can catch you in battle, and give me a reasonable chance of keeping you in that battle, you are going to be caught. If I can't catch you in open world, or if you can out-sail or out-smart me, then you have nothing to fear. Now, I know how often that button is used for moving goods around, and that is unfortunate, but until some better method to      end the battle screen camping is thought of, it seems to me to be the best strategy.
I don't like it for the following reasons and there are no ways to stop them from these exploits:
1. This has become a "get from jail" card as you have mentioned. Let alone defensive tag, they also attack an AI right in front of you and you can't even enter THAT battle because they are using Battle Instance as a get away exploit. Why can't I join the battle then? I was right there within the tag circle? Then they teleport to friendly from there and you never see them. It is an exploit to avoid being legitimately attacked in the OW
2. There is now no point to make blockades around ports anymore because they can get past the blockage with their full cargo bypassing the entire blockade or near port hunters. All they need to do is to attack AI or an alt that travels with them or their friend. And they just teleport with the cargo. This is just some BS mechanic mate. Actually its not a mechanic. It was a quick fix before devs could come with a better solution to battle screen camp. But this have further negatively affected PVP.
3. Fast travel across vast area. You can cut the time almost half. I can travel to kidds or bermudas in just 15 minutes because of that exploit. This REALLY bothers me.

The battle camping issue is sorted with kick out of empty battle in 5 min due to inactivity, then kick out to Open World in 5 min from Battle Screen. If you are in the faster ship you will run in the OW full stop (providing that they sort OW ship speeds that is the real issue here). If you are not you will get tagged and sunk and that should be OK with everybody because this is fair. Alt-F4 force loging off from Battle Screen should kick player straight into the OW and normal 2 min logout timer kicks in. This stops all battle screen camping and loging off issues.
Teleporting should be removed from the OW in any form and shape (I can live with teleport to capital once in 3 hours). Instead rework on teleporting ships from town to town. Everyone sling ships in an instant using ship sling exploit. This is hardly realistic, but is not OP and proved to deserve being part of the gameplay to make it less timesink. So ship delivery between ports needs to become instant. Ships delivered in that manner can't start or join battle for 15 minutes..
Personal teleporting. Anyone who teleported from town to town cannot join battles for 15 minutes. They can start battles themselves, but can't join an open battles. This will also sort ganking outside ports issue.
 

6. Signalling: it is a fine perk, If it keeps the fight open for 10 minutes to all friendlies to join in to even up the BR, up to 100 BR above the enemy's.
I also proposed this as 20% above enemy BR when joining. This way when there is a battle in OW and 2 sides sail to it they all can join one at the time. Those battles will balance themselves out. The trouble is - its an OW and that mechanic will crate "OW lobby matches". Too fair. Too little risks. Denies newbs ever being able to kill veterans because they cant even gank them with that mechanic.

 

GET RID OF THE RIDICULOUS AI FLEETS! WHY ARE THERE MULTIPLE FLEETS OF 25 SHIPS OF THE LINE SAILING ABOUT IF THERE IS NO HOSTILITY BEING RAISED!?! For goodness sake, limit the standard AI fleet patrols to something like 8 frigates or 2 SOL's and 3 frigates (that would be a more rare one) sailing about. Increasing the number of AI traders and sixth rates is fine, it gives the (almost) empty open world some sails for us to enjoy, and some targets for the low-level guys :)
There should be no AI fleets sailing around whats so ever. The Ai fleet should be "hidden patrols" around capitals and should spawn and hunt players if they commit crime against that nation. We don't need them to over load the server. I would rather have more real players cap that server could afford to have. Other than that, there should be no AI fleet by default. If we ever will be able to claim ownership of a region as a clan and be able to work on regions prosperity, then AI fleet spawns could also be added to each prosperity level (the higher the defenses the stronger the AI fleet).
 

Cheers for your input!

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its not the carebears creating carebear patches, its the people using tricks and shady game mechanics to get an unfair advantage in a battle. Log outs, hide in port to join bait battle, etc...

I won't complain when I run into an enemy fleet and get caught, I will complain however if the oponent "bends" the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage. Allot of these rules have taken care of these things. In battle I don't care what tactics are used, chain, demast, grape, stern rake,... those are all real mechanics that I don't have any problems with obviously.

So I wouldn't put all these timers etc... on the account of carebears but on those using shady game mechanics to get an unfair advantage.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Spud said:

Its not the carebears creating carebear patches, its the people using tricks and shady game mechanics to get an unfair advantage in a battle. Log outs, hide in port to join bait battle, etc... 

Like broken tag mechanics where a handful of small ships can drag in a 25 man 1st rate pb fleet? Yeah, those are annoying.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Kloothommel said:

Like broken tag mechanics where a handful of small ships can drag in a 25 man 1st rate pb fleet? Yeah, those are annoying.

Those amonst many, basicaly the things that would never have happened IRL (Although 25 man 1st rate fleets are not realistic too). A small group of frigates would never have engaged a SoL fleet. I thought they fixed this? Or is that still in the testbed, with the BR rating having to be a certain % to be able to tag?

If this game would be played in only one world (OW = battle world) it would probably be solving 90% of this games issues. That should be the goal for NA2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, The Spud said:

Its not the carebears creating carebear patches, its the people using tricks and shady game mechanics to get an unfair advantage in a battle. Log outs, hide in port to join bait battle, etc...

I won't complain when I run into an enemy fleet and get caught, I will complain however if the oponent "bends" the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage. Allot of these rules have taken care of these things. In battle I don't care what tactics are used, chain, demast, grape, stern rake,... those are all real mechanics that I don't have any problems with obviously.

So I wouldn't put all these timers etc... on the account of carebears but on those using shady game mechanics to get an unfair advantage.

These are carebear driven patches. Carebears don't want to waste time hiding in battle screen then give them a teleport to safe place. Multiple enemies hiding in port and hopping into a battle? There's a 2 minute timer to jump into a battle and 30 seconds protecting you from being attacked. Maybe a better solution is to have people who join after initial battle start placed farther from the action, but not to make battles close instantly. An obvious carebear patch. Any thoughts that the mechanics aren't being changed because of carebear tears is silly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Number of Ships and BR curve for the new RoE calculations as posted earlier. No only one nor only the other :)

Although testbed cannot be fully used to test this we will certainly see a more credible way of engaging fleets, and for sure the commitment needed prior to a PB.

In truth, with the 30 minutes timer prior to enter a PB, a conquest fleet can be stopped in the OW by a defending fleet which decides to sally forth instead of defending inside the port itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JobaSet said:

About the RoE, i sugested several time a full open battles system with a spawn distance depending on time of arrival.  Problem here is depending on wind and what way your heading after start of fight if you know what you are doing (Note got to have people in battle that know how to do this and tell them were to com in on) you can still land right on top of them. We did it with the 1 circle all the time. we do this now with the 2 circles. Kind of fun to look like you are running then have even numbers. and kill every one.The later you join the fight the farther you spawn. It would allow big fights, give a chance to the outmatched party to attempt an escape, and the reinforced forces could try to slow the escapers. 

Position to wind could be fixed and distance would depend on closest enemy position, not fight start position.

Reinforcement spawning at close range after 2 or more minutes in a gamebreaker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

These are carebear driven patches. Carebears don't want to waste time hiding in battle screen then give them a teleport to safe place. Multiple enemies hiding in port and hopping into a battle? There's a 2 minute timer to jump into a battle and 30 seconds protecting you from being attacked. Maybe a better solution is to have people who join after initial battle start placed farther from the action, but not to make battles close instantly. An obvious carebear patch. Any thoughts that the mechanics aren't being changed because of carebear tears is silly.

The battle screen teleport favours the gankers more then it benefits the carebears. And the 2 minute battle open timer and the 2 minute can't join battle timer were implemented because some people used it to set up unrealistic ambushes, one ship baiting a couple of enemies and then his friends undock to join the battle. Hiding behind an iseland or somewhere out of sight is all perfectly fine, and even clever. The undocking and joining battles was not.

For sure the spawning when joining a battle should be looked at, sertainly if we're going back to 2 or 5 minute timers. But again thats less of an issue when the battle insta closes. I think Hethwill proposed to have the insta battle close ROE + ALWAYS signaling ALWAYS control. Which I think we should test and then evaluate with a poll to have the 30 minute, 5 minute, 2 minute or insta close, with the options to have signaling or control always on.

If we would remove all "restricting" ellements like timers etc... it would just be more frustrating fights less fun fights. Like in real life, the rules are made cause some people stopped using common sense.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, The Spud said:

The battle screen teleport favours the gankers more then it benefits the carebears. And the 2 minute battle open timer and the 2 minute can't join battle timer were implemented because some people used it to set up unrealistic ambushes, one ship baiting a couple of enemies and then his friends undock to join the battle. Hiding behind an iseland or somewhere out of sight is all perfectly fine, and even clever. The undocking and joining battles was not.

The only thing the teleport favors for attackers is if you get a loaded trader and now you don't have to sail it back. That is BS just as much. You still don't get the point on the battle closing instantly. The people who care about the battle closing are the ones who don't want anyone joining because it's "not fair". Because "fights should be even" on the open world. If someone joins in your battle have your clan mates come back you up if you're that worried. You attack me any where near a port my clan mates have and the gank squad will roll in. This is a carebear attitude to want battles to close instantly so you can feel safe you have the match up you initially got.

3 minutes ago, The Spud said:

For sure the spawning when joining a battle should be looked at, sertainly if we're going back to 2 or 5 minute timers. But again thats less of an issue when the battle insta closes. I think Hethwill proposed to have the insta battle close ROE + ALWAYS signaling ALWAYS control. Which I think we should test and then evaluate with a poll to have the 30 minute, 5 minute, 2 minute or insta close, with the options to have signaling or control always on.

And I disagree with Hethwill. Battles should be open until they're finished. Any one should be able to come in and piss on your parade. Let them spawn farther away(btw Zooloo my idea from beginning of patch) if they come in late. I saw a previous post you made suggesting this poll. You should put it up. Don't forget to add always open. We can see the percentage of harcore players, carebears, and the inbetweeners.

4 minutes ago, The Spud said:

If we would remove all "restricting" ellements like timers etc... it would just be more frustrating fights less fun fights. Like in real life, the rules are made cause some people stopped using common sense.

Except this is a video game. A timer on a battle staying open is a change to comfort people who don't like conflict unless it's on their terms. I'm pretty sure when I started playing this game there was no timers on battles and anyone could pop in at anytime. Again a response to people crying about being ganked or not being able to do missions in peace. Hell, even with hostility in the game battles were lowered from 30 minutes to 5 minutes to cater to carebears wanting to flip ports without having to pvp.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Duncan McFail said:

Battles should be open until they're finished. Any one should be able to come in and piss on your parade.

What is the perfect battle in your opinion? Is it an even battle where tactics and skill matter or the battles where you cry help in the nation chat and have a dozen of your mates show up to put your team in an advantage.

For me its the even battle where if you win you know you were the better team not the bigger team, therefore i support anything that promotes more even fights. There is no skill needed to fight a 5 vs 1, you're going to win always, for a 5 vs 5 only the better captains can win.

And especialy since the nation population is unbalanced, it would be stronlgy in favour of the bigger nations to have always open battles. Thats why I say, insta close + always signaling + always control.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, The Spud said:

What is the perfect battle in your opinion? Is it an even battle where tactics and skill matter or the battles where you cry help in the nation chat and have a dozen of your mates show up to put your team in an advantage.

For me its the even battle where if you win you know you were the better team not the bigger team, therefore i support anything that promotes more even fights. There is no skill needed to fight a 5 vs 1, you're going to win always, for a 5 vs 5 only the better captains can win.

And especialy since the nation population is unbalanced, it would be stronlgy in favour of the bigger nations to have always open battles. Thats why I say, insta close + always signaling + always control.

The even, structured, team battles needs to be the PB's. This is the type of battle to get the team work and preparation done prior the battle and where training as a team in fleet tactics will pay off.

Open World needs to be opportunistic and not restricted to timers. I want to be ganked. I don't want people to come at me in the same numbers. The truth is that 90% of players will not fight us if they can't gank.
Fight the equal number? There is no glory in that.

I had done plenty of this:
vhyhpqK.jpg

 

To provoke this:
eSrvrGn.jpg


And when I chose to stay to do this:
bZY7pV9.jpg

 

Please don't get me wrong. This is not showed to boast. Just to explain that solo people can play in gank fest environment still. My personal believe (and you are entitled to disagree with me of course) that sailing in such hostile environment asking for trouble is in fact the hardcore pvp mode.
And if all you want is even fights you are probably looking for a fair session type game. A lobby game. Effectively you are trying to make a lobby in the open world.
There is no difference, just have to sail to it...

So what we are saying is that OW needs to stay opportunistic where either best or groups survive. See either or. Still options. As Joba said being part of the group is a good thing. When we were ganked by US outside Mort for months we had to come up with tactics. We could not sail out of our own capital to do missions so we started doing pvp with them full time and most of us levelled all the way doing just PVP. Outnumbered most of the times.

Gank fest teaches you to always be on alert. Play on the edge of your seat. Your senses needs to be sharp. Your judgement quick. Your must start fast and aggressive and finish rapidly or make decision to disengage.

I don't know man. Ever since Brits lost their rightful prerogative to come out and gank me outside KPR and protect their newbs and traders... they lost all interest in hunting me altogether. In return I lost interest hunting their newbs and traders, because no one is coming out to help them anymore.

That is the game killer as I see it. Too much restrictions and evenness and that is what @JobaSet is trying to communicate to you.

The most interesting yet annoying part of this is that lots of those people who were so loud and demanded the instances to close instantly, demanded fairness in fights.... they are no longer playing the game. They got what they want. Still don't like it. They don't play it. Yet they are on the forums expressing their opinions... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a measure of timescale transition. Do not twist the main request for battles being looked upon, and not about "fair" fights as flying Squadrons are drawn into the same instance and from a fair distance, 2 minutes OW sailing at average speed.

Full circle diameter is roughly 50km even if assets are not to scale :)

We agree to disagree that scale is important and travel time is even more important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, koltes said:

That is the game killer as I see it. Too much restrictions and evenness and that is what @JobaSet is trying to communicate to you.

The most interesting yet annoying part of this is that lots of those people who were so loud and demanded the instances to close instantly, demanded fairness in fights.... they are no longer playing the game. They got what they want. Still don't like it. They don't play it. Yet they are on the forums expressing their opinions... 

Yep 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/84842993830825101/97A6DCAF733827F037507B7485C074FE4600B0BE/ 

this is my best 4 ver 1 and only reason Blue got away was time ran out

 

Take note what tiger was in

 

Edited by JobaSet
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...