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Give First Time Players A Square Rigged and Stable Ship, as Advertised


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( Originally posted in a different thread.  Jeheil suggested I post it here)

If you're going to do a big server reset, there's something I'd like to address.  This game advertises itself as a "tall ship combat" game and there are many new players that would love to try getting into a square-rigger and firing off broadsides at an enemy.

 

The problem is that new players start the game and the best they can use is the highly volatile and difficult to sail basic cutter.

I'd like to recommend some provision be made to allow first time players to immediately be able to sail some kind of a square-rigger; even a small one.  Just so that they can get that delivery on what the game advertises.... tall-ships combat.

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I agree, I remember Dev stating that a large percentage of new players never make it to the brig stage.  Start them at the brig stage with a basic brig being the starter ship.  No offense to the cutter, but with only one mast, mastering it's sail plan does not translate to the 2 mast or 3 mast ships.

 

The grind is very arduous for a new player starting out, making some allowances for that and giving a brig as the first ship could go a long way toward people catching the fire to hook them, or at least give the game a good 50 hours.  Newbies leaving in the very early stages out of frustration hobbles us all.

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What is needed is a tutorial.

As things stand it doesn't take long for a player to get the money and xp buy and crew a brig or snow (the money side may change of course, particularly as it seems NPCs will stop selling ships), but new players struggle to know how to start. Offering a square-rigged ship tutorial to new players, using a loan ship and crew - it could even be offered as a free demo to get new people buying the game - would help enormously. I also recommend a fore-and-aft-rigged  / finding and boarding a trader tutorial as well, as this is how new players need to start their grind.

(copied from server wipe thread)

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

In my oppinion a tutorial is more needed. But maybe it's a little workaround... don't know

basic cutter is difficult to sail? i don't agree.

Tutorial is probably needed as well.

I know people who had/have hard time winning 1vs1 with a Basic Cutter.  Some guys have told that they have tried couples times and cannot just win and they do not know what they do wrong.  They have told that they have got frustrated to burn 1h in combat and fail and advance nowhere.  Starting PvE when you know nothing, can be hard in a Basic Cutter.

Basic Brig, and the same missions.  I could imagine that it might actually be easier to win those 1st PvE fights when you are learning the ropes, especially vs cutters/lynxes/privateers.

Also, Brig is maybe the worst ship in the game.  For end game, I would rather sail a Lynx/Privateer/Cutter, but I would probably skip Brigs.  If I have not understood this wrong, we might even give a purpose for Brigs.

 

Sure, this is not the highest priority item to implement, but I think it might be actually a good idea.

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8 hours ago, blakdog said:

( Originally posted in a different thread.  Jeheil suggested I post it here)

If you're going to do a big server reset, there's something I'd like to address.  This game advertises itself as a "tall ship combat" game and there are many new players that would love to try getting into a square-rigger and firing off broadsides at an enemy.

 

The problem is that new players start the game and the best they can use is the highly volatile and difficult to sail basic cutter.

I'd like to recommend some provision be made to allow first time players to immediately be able to sail some kind of a square-rigger; even a small one.  Just so that they can get that delivery on what the game advertises.... tall-ships combat.

I am new to the game myself (46 hours), I agree with some of your statements. However, this game has a steep learning curve. Sailing a fore-aft rigged ship is much more forgiving than a square rigged ship. I have recently acquired a Snow (thanks to a fellow player who sold it to me at a discount, tremendous community here!) and even though I owned a sailboat in RL, it was much harder to sail in the changing wind and especially in battle.

If new players go straight into a more difficult sailing ship from the beginning, they may easily get very frustrated, add to that the lack of tutorials, the steep learning curve and they will possibly give up the game!

As for the way you described the cutter, I think it is the easiest in game ship to sail and maneuver.

Edited by AngryPanCake
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My problem with the cutter back in the days was not sailing so much as gunnery. I agree that the fore-and-aft rig is more forgiving for sailing on full auto. But the cutter's (and its first opponents) low freeboard, combined with its being tender makes it a frustrating platform for learning gunnery, for me at least.

So, bottom line: brig or snow as starting boat sounds like a good idea to me.

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We dont really need to start in a brig at all. 

 

A good tutorial is all that is needed. I have spent a lot of my 1500 hours teaching new players how to play, and running missions with them to keep them in the game. I didnt mind doing it the first 15 times, but there comes a point where it all blends together and you start forgetting what youve covered and what you havent, and then it becomes a chore. 

 

A basic tutorial a la "the scribe" in old school RTS games would be nice. You could call him First Mate or whatever, or give the appropriate title for the nation. 

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8 hours ago, Æthlstan said:

We dont really need to start in a brig at all. 

 

A good tutorial is all that is needed. I have spent a lot of my 1500 hours teaching new players how to play, and running missions with them to keep them in the game. I didnt mind doing it the first 15 times, but there comes a point where it all blends together and you start forgetting what youve covered and what you havent, and then it becomes a chore. 

 

A basic tutorial a la "the scribe" in old school RTS games would be nice. You could call him First Mate or whatever, or give the appropriate title for the nation. 

That's a great idea.

I'm sure they are going to have some sort of tutorial at the game release. Before you take the plunge into the OW, you will be given entry level ship (or ships), a basic cutter to start with, basic sailing, use of Map (M key), learning coordinates ("Go to Longitude XX and Latitude YY" etc), basic gunnery, switching ammo; Then maybe another entry level square rigged ship for more intermediate sailing with manual sails (tacking), some intermediate level gunnery...etc.

With your First mate idea, a player who elects not to complete the tutorial, then will have to earn extra XP on his/her own to become the current Midshipman we all have started with.

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49 minutes ago, AngryPanCake said:

.

With your First mate idea, a player who elects not to complete the tutorial, then will have to earn extra XP on his/her own to become the current Midshipman we all have started with.

Not sure if I get what you are saying entirely. 

Let me elaborate more and you can then tell me what you think should be different

I'llpoint to a specific RTS. Stronghold. In that game, you dont really get a tutorial. You get a cautious old man helping the young princeling on his first few missions. He is very prominent in the first few campaign missions and you cant turn him off. But as you progress, he fades away and you run more and more of your kingdom without prompting.

 

Its the least obtrusive method of tutorial, and maybe our version of it would end after the guy has reached rank 3 or 4 and has finished learning how to sail a square rigged ship

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16 minutes ago, Æthlstan said:

Not sure if I get what you are saying entirely. 

Let me elaborate more and you can then tell me what you think should be different

I'llpoint to a specific RTS. Stronghold. In that game, you dont really get a tutorial. You get a cautious old man helping the young princeling on his first few missions. He is very prominent in the first few campaign missions and you cant turn him off. But as you progress, he fades away and you run more and more of your kingdom without prompting.

 

Its the least obtrusive method of tutorial, and maybe our version of it would end after the guy has reached rank 3 or 4 and has finished learning how to sail a square rigged ship

I see, I was actually thinking of something different. I think I've played stronghold long time ago and did not think of that.

You mean you start as a First Mate and have a "virtual Captain" teaching you the ropes (pun intended) in a safe zone, without interference from other players. Go through basic (and possibly some intermediate) sailing/gunnery/some aspects of the UI...etc and after completion or the tutorial you earn the Midshipman rank and then interact with other players and the rest of the OW.

Stronghold is mainly a single player game, right? Would it be easy to incorporate this tutorial into an OW with other players roaming around?

The tutorial I was thinking about was some version of World of Warships (which is a lobby style MMO), you select the tutorial before you start going into battles, without interference from other players. That's why I thought of it this way:

In the future final release game, the NA lobby would have PvP Global and PvE servers, there will be an option for Tutorials, which won't be part of the OW, but more like when you enter a battle, it's just you and when you progress in your tutorials, one or more AI ships. If you complete the Tutorial, then you leave and join one of the 2 servers as a Midshipman (maybe with an extra 10-20 XP or whatever is thought to be appropriate to help you level up a tidbit faster). If you elect not to complete your tutorial and jump right into the OW servers, then you start as a First Mate and will have to earn XP to get to the Midshipman rank.

People who have purchased the game during EA, will of course bypass the First Mate rank.

 

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Unless I'm confused the game doesn't state you get to sail only square rigged ships. It says you can!

Black desert online says u cam get to lvl 60. But you don't start at 60. Star citizen says plays hundreds of ships on millions of star systems but you don't start with it all. 

I really hate warcraft players who want it all now without putting anything in!!

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1 minute ago, Christendom said:

The tutorial idea was brought up before.  Dev said it was our responsibility to teach new players and tutorials were expensive .

Which explains why there are no new players.  

Which maybe explains we are not teaching them but giving stuff away and helping them grind away ?

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It's very frustrating for new players.  If they don't have an almost fanatical zeal for the basic concept of the game, discouragement comes hard and fast.

A lot of great tutorials out there for square rig manual sails (I always point to AxeManAnt), nothing fore and aft.  I'd love to see Hethwill or Paederast Pete make one.

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29 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I don't disagree with that nor will I agree. :) It is a social thing, not a mechanic thing.

I've seen nothing but help given to new players in US nation chat.  I of course can't speak for elsewhere.  I've seen people throw more ships, gold and guidance than they could possibly need, but yet still quit out of boredom and a sense of being overwhelmed.  Also starting a very long grind to Rear Admiral might seem like a waste of time in a game that barely cracks 400 people online during prime time.  

This game starts off new players with very little assistance, zero tutorials, pretty much zero explanation of how things work and an ever changing combat system where the majority of the youtube videos out there that do have tutorials are outdated.  Small wonder why they've managed to retain 2% of their 100k copies sold.  If any other type of business were run like this game has been it'd be shut down already.  

There's no reason why they can't throw a couple hundred bucks at one of the more popular youtubers out there like @Jeheil and have them make an official Naval Action new player guide or something and have him updated it once or twice as needed.  

The community is a problem yes, but they aren't responsible for the current situation we're in.

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7 hours ago, AngryPanCake said:

I see, I was actually thinking of something different. I think I've played stronghold long time ago and did not think of that.

You mean you start as a First Mate and have a "virtual Captain" teaching you the ropes (pun intended) in a safe zone, without interference from other players. Go through basic (and possibly some intermediate) sailing/gunnery/some aspects of the UI...etc and after completion or the tutorial you earn the Midshipman rank and then interact with other players and the rest of the OW.

Stronghold is mainly a single player game, right? Would it be easy to incorporate this tutorial into an OW with other players roaming around?

The tutorial I was thinking about was some version of World of Warships (which is a lobby style MMO), you select the tutorial before you start going into battles, without interference from other players. That's why I thought of it this way:

In the future final release game, the NA lobby would have PvP Global and PvE servers, there will be an option for Tutorials, which won't be part of the OW, but more like when you enter a battle, it's just you and when you progress in your tutorials, one or more AI ships. If you complete the Tutorial, then you leave and join one of the 2 servers as a Midshipman (maybe with an extra 10-20 XP or whatever is thought to be appropriate to help you level up a tidbit faster). If you elect not to complete your tutorial and jump right into the OW servers, then you start as a First Mate and will have to earn XP to get to the Midshipman rank.

People who have purchased the game during EA, will of course bypass the First Mate rank.

 

I dont really think it has to be a separate experience. Perhaps for specific missions the player can be made untouchable by all, but after the player has the basics, they could be attacked while still in tutorial. In fact, I'd encourage it. Have the tutorial comment on it, actually, wish the player luck. Then if they get sunk, the tutorial can help them through getting out on the water again

I envision the tutorial helping the midshipman to rank 2 or 3. Just enough to get them into a square rig and explain manual sails. There were smaller 2 mast square rigged ships, so perhaps we could have a sloop with 60 men that can be used at level 2...say 6-8 larger cannons per side over the cutter.

 

Tutorial wouldnt be easy mode. It would just allow the player to learn without delaying their progress. I think we have advanced enough since 2001 to have an adaptive AI "assistant"

Edited by Æthlstan
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While I don't disagree I can see a newcomer virtual pilot crash a lot on take off, burn out the engine and overall spin a lot in the runway as well but eventually have all things come together and rejoice in having made it and learn the why he made it.

Question: Is the newcomer area experience a success or did the veterans abused it ?

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I seem to remember a whole set of videos on YouTube that were of great help when I was learning the ropes, especially where sailing and tacking into the wind came in.

Would it be some great problem to integrate the information from these video walkthru into the first couple of hours of gameplay OR at least plug them heavily with links ingame?

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