Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Prohibit Alts


Recommended Posts

On 2/26/2017 at 1:04 PM, Kiithnaras said:

As the title suggests, evidence is mounting that alts, alternate accounts owned and played by the same physical person, are causing more and more frustration with the general playerbase (i.e. non-alt-users). Even without shady things like preventative tagging, counter-aggression, and battle-filling, a person with more than one account has that many more crafting hours, outposts, production buildings, and market contracts. It is the very definition of pay-to-win. Individuals like @Anolytic, who have admitted to having no less than six accounts, are capable of easily belting out exceptional first-rates every single day.

This is a major problem for the game at large. Usage of alts in the game, while it is nice for GameLabs, financially, for now, seriously hinders the health of the community and the longevity game. The very ships that the devs have indicated that should be rare and, explicitly, exceptional, are no big deal for people with multiple accounts.

Shady tactics like using cross-nation alts to hide in battles, countering or abusing hostility, and entering large-ship battles in small ships, only to escape shortly after the battle begins, are all examples of game-breaking tactics that ruin the fun for the game.

I propose that holders of alts at least be allowed to surrender their alt accounts for redeemables (paints and ship chests) for a short period of time. Following this grace period, any person found using an alt should be banned permanently.

You cannot prevent someone purchasing a game as many times as they want. We have a right to do what we want with $$$. You are obviously not very well aware of some mechanics in the game that can be somewhat abused by alts. You cannot rid of it, it is impossible. So accept it, learn this tricks and avoid them in the first place.

Edited by Jean Pual Vilvenue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Sven Silberbart said:

I would like to see every player is playing just one account. That would solve soo much problems. But i fear that is a dream.

 

 

 

#noAlts
#noFleets
.
.
.

 

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think most players with more than one acc are playing fair and just use them to make crafting easier for themselves. That players are not the problem. The big problem are the others who exploit their Alts for a advantage in (Port-)Battles. But this whole discussion is just as senseless as Otto Kohl comment above, since there will be no technical solution and maybe devs dont want a solution (who knows)

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

1. Alts barely simulate an additional palyer bringing in his labour hours to craft materials and farm resources. Its like having a mini clan of your own. Alts themselves win you no battle whatsoever unless you use them as spies!

Actually I know for fact they can win you battles in other ways.  The number one way my clan has used them is to be in more than one battle at once or to fill a battle.  What the Nationals on PvP2 can't get in there head is when I say your only fighting 15--20 guys or 10-15 they can't figure out how we can field 25 or even have guys in more than one place fighting them.  I personally have played two Pirates alts in the same port battle to help field the full 25 against a full team of 25+ Nationals or had to log my alt in and sent them over to another port to stop a flip on the old flag system cause my main char was currently in a port battle (one mortar brig and one fire-ship).    When we say it's only 10-15 guys we really aren't joking that you had guys with many of them playing two chars at once beating the crap out of three nations.   Though since we got our numbers up we actually can field a full 20-25 in port battles with a few guys not making it in and not using any of our alts other than for screening purpose so we can get them into the fight since the Nationals where fielding 35+ at port battles against our 20.   The last time they attacked kids we got 25 in the port battle and a few extra out side.   They had over 40 players at that port battle on the British/Dutch/US side.   So yes they can be used to win battles.   The thing is if your 25 players are getting there arse beat by 10-15 guys playing multi accounts against you than it's a skill problem on there side.    These are the same guys that complain about alts and cheats and stuff cause it's not that they are being done, but they using the game mechanics and learning it better than them to get the things done with less manpower.  Some times the alts are all that are keeping small nations alive too.

As for alts in other nations.  As the Devs have said, "LOOSE LISP SINK SHIPS."  There are spies and traitors in every nation so watch what you say.   As long as the alts aren't being abused per game rules than just move on, cause it's basically the same as some one else playing the game.  Instead it's just one person behind that char instead of 2 or 3 or more.   I make it very clear my Dane alt on PvP2 cause I do help them out in port battles and I they have alliance with the pirates so I"m not spying on any one or being a traitor to there nation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

Actually I know for fact they can win you battles in other ways.  The number one way my clan has used them is to be in more than one battle at once or to fill a battle.  What the Nationals on PvP2 can't get in there head is when I say your only fighting 15--20 guys or 10-15 they can't figure out how we can field 25 or even have guys in more than one place fighting them.  I personally have played two Pirates alts in the same port battle to help field the full 25 against a full team of 25+ Nationals or had to log my alt in and sent them over to another port to stop a flip on the old flag system cause my main char was currently in a port battle (one mortar brig and one fire-ship).    When we say it's only 10-15 guys we really aren't joking that you had guys with many of them playing two chars at once beating the crap out of three nations.   Though since we got our numbers up we actually can field a full 20-25 in port battles with a few guys not making it in and not using any of our alts other than for screening purpose so we can get them into the fight since the Nationals where fielding 35+ at port battles against our 20.   The last time they attacked kids we got 25 in the port battle and a few extra out side.   They had over 40 players at that port battle on the British/Dutch/US side.   So yes they can be used to win battles.   The thing is if your 25 players are getting there arse beat by 10-15 guys playing multi accounts against you than it's a skill problem on there side.    These are the same guys that complain about alts and cheats and stuff cause it's not that they are being done, but they using the game mechanics and learning it better than them to get the things done with less manpower.  Some times the alts are all that are keeping small nations alive too.

I think your numbers must be a bit over the top there. I for one couldn't even run the game twice on my computer unless I play at 10FPS. Believe me Id rather jsut fight one and considering I run a decent setup and lots of people run mediocre ones that already heavily limits the amount of people capable of doing this.

I dunno about the spy thing. For us Brits it at some point became so bad that we literally couldn't talk in Nation anymore as we knew of like 20 spies online at once. It ended up increasing hostility among each other and massive distrust. People got kicked out of clans for talkign about port battles in nation and everyone neeeded to be triple vetted before getting any tags on the Nation TS. THat jsut went past the whole scenario of a spy got one bit of info. They jsut got all of it if anybody said anything. And quite frankly I don't play computer games to distrust the guys next to me. I am here to have fun not to run the Gestapo of counter espionage. (forgive the comparison)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

I think your numbers must be a bit over the top there. I for one couldn't even run the game twice on my computer unless I play at 10FPS. Believe me Id rather jsut fight one and considering I run a decent setup and lots of people run mediocre ones that already heavily limits the amount of people capable of doing this.

I dunno about the spy thing. For us Brits it at some point became so bad that we literally couldn't talk in Nation anymore as we knew of like 20 spies online at once. It ended up increasing hostility among each other and massive distrust. People got kicked out of clans for talkign about port battles in nation and everyone neeeded to be triple vetted before getting any tags on the Nation TS. THat jsut went past the whole scenario of a spy got one bit of info. They jsut got all of it if anybody said anything. And quite frankly I don't play computer games to distrust the guys next to me. I am here to have fun not to run the Gestapo of counter espionage. (forgive the comparison)

Very good gaming computer on my part and many other clan members.  You do take a performance hit but it is a price to pay when your getting pounded on by three nations at once.  Though I have to admit I see some very crazy talk in nations about folks being spies and mistrust on our server.  Some of the stuff I hear they are blaming the wrong folks and running off good players. It's the spy's/alts that don't speak up and stir the pot you need to worry about.  Most the time if they guy sin't being very noticeable an alt and he speaks utp, he prob not an alt and just wants to try something differently than the norm. I think we have a group of very toxic players that are doing way more harm than any alts or night flipping we hear the most complaints about.  They are the ones running off players not what they keep saying is doing it.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they enter PB's to grief, screenshot it devs can track if its an alt or not (by checking for suspicious activity) in any other Alt exploit situation do the same and devs will check. As far as crafting goes, if you realy want to pay 40€ extra just to have double the outposts, production buildings and crafting hours...why not. If you're half descent you should be able to manage all your ship needs with one account, or have a clan backing you up to do so.

The devs can't state that they'll "tollerate" it and then afterwards forbid alt use and ban people who payed 40€ for every account thinking that it was tollerated (I heard of people having 8 and more, do the maths).

Besides its not fair for those who genuinly share accounts, for the little trouble alts give its not worth it. This discussion has been made allot of times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@JollyRoger1516 Would it be allowed to set an "important:" note in the steam description saying that you dont want multiple accounts and you would punish violations with perm banns? Behind this a link to a formular for people playing on the same IP. If you bought a second copy accidentally you would still have the 2 weeks refund. This would at least limit the number of alts.

For NA in general there is no real problem with some alts around like we have it now. But imagine, after some steam sales e.g., 50% using alts. Then we would notice this. Assume 2k players playing and sinking ships, but actually 3k players producing stuff. They would need to adjust some balancing, e.g. the labour generation/palyer. This wouldnt be in favour of single account users. Ofcourse purely hypothetical and dependant on eco mechanics, but it is a risk you take keeping mulit accouts legal after release. Reviews saying nice game, but you need to buy two copies would discourage lots of people from buying.

 

Another option would be an abo model. The problem now is the longer you play the more value/money you get out of an alt. Monthly cost would make alts probably not worth the money for most players.

Edited by Fargo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fargo said:

@JollyRoger1516 Would it be allowed to set an "important:" note in the steam description saying that you dont want multiple accounts and you would punish violations with perm banns? Behind this a link to a formular for people playing on the same IP. If you bought a second copy accidentally you would still have the 2 weeks refund. This would at least limit the number of alts.

For NA in general there is no real problem with some alts around like we have it now. But imagine, after some steam sales e.g., 50% using alts. Then we would notice this. Assume 2k players playing and sinking ships, but actually 3k players producing stuff. They would need to adjust some balancing, e.g. the labour generation/palyer. This wouldnt be in favour of single account users. Ofcourse purely hypothetical and dependant on eco mechanics, but it is a risk you take keeping mulit accouts legal after release. Reviews saying nice game, but you need to buy two copies would discourage lots of people from buying.

 

Another option would be an abo model. The problem now is the longer you play the more value/money you get out of an alt. Monthly cost would make alts probably not worth the money for most players.

You could/would have to set such a note but I could in no way be a rule for alts already bought. As the devs gave permission to do so in the past acounts bought udner that understanding cannot just be canceled. It would only govern that from the moment of the note being introduced alts are no longer to be bought (and then used). Former alts would in no way be affected by that.

An abo model or going free to play would be somewhat troublesome. Games have done it before like Call to Arms so it must be somewhat possible. But Call to Arms went F2Play meaning access to the content wasn't limited while an abo model would run you into problems with people who bought the full product and suddenly no longer have access to it! And if you look at Call to Arms that change giganticly backfired as pretty much 90% of the old customers do not feel adequately compensated and Steam already announced that it is therefore under investigation which could still put a major problem on the devs/publisher of that game.

That of course excludes games that are an early access buy in which from the get go it is stated that the game will eventually become free to play (like Fractured Space). As long as informationw as available prior to your purchase it cannot be contested if you decide to buy anyway. That would be your problem then but as NA never announced to desire an abo/F2Play model this would now be problematic.

I do see your problem with release events though. If sold at 50% many might be itnerested in alts and the problem could become worse.

Edited by JollyRoger1516
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Spud said:

If they enter PB's to grief, screenshot it devs can track if its an alt or not (by checking for suspicious activity) in any other Alt exploit situation do the same and devs will check. As far as crafting goes, if you realy want to pay 40€ extra just to have double the outposts, production buildings and crafting hours...why not. If you're half descent you should be able to manage all your ship needs with one account, or have a clan backing you up to do so.

Problem with the spy/disrupting alts is that the devs are very cautious with their punishments (understandably) which renders most tribunals in the eyes of the players a farce. I genuinely think that punishments should be handed out faster and harder however more focused on the offense.

  1. If you block port battle slots or drag in fleets on purpose - 1 week ban from any port battle initiation. You can still be attacked but cannot attack yourself or join a port battle offensive or defensive. That would effectively make you a trader. The game continous to be playable but due to your actions for this week in a limited range.
  2. If you scam in trades or use exploits for trades then you would be blocked from trading with other palyers or the port shops for one full week. This would still allow you to fight yet again lock you out from the area you caused offense in.
  3. If you come to the moderators attention for your language you will have no access to any of the chats for a full week. (TS has to be admined/moderated by the respective owners anyway the devs ahve no say or duty on those)
  4. If you collect more then one offense within an already punished 7 days(effectively also a probation period) you will be fully banned from the game for 7 days.
  5. If you are a repeat offender the next round will get you an additional 7 days meaning 2 weeks lockout from your respective offense/probation. This can be topped up everytime should the need arise.
  6. For alts this could if it can be proven be extended upon the guy controlling the alt. Even if he isn't caught the alt would be put on ice for a full week.

That would be very easy to implement, punish people in the correct areas, allow for quicker punishment as the punishments if incorrect don't lock you out of the entire game and see the playerbase protected in the respective fields of offense.

 

Edited by JollyRoger1516
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think if the devs would have ever had one sollid alt case, they would ban, I still believe that most of this Alt stuff is just players who lack experience. If people in PB's would just initialy act normal towards the "suspect" instead of calling him names and why he entered in a bellona or whatever, you might get an explanation and not someone who escapes the battle because hes not wanted and angry at the same time for not understanding why he got called names. You might even get the person to fight the battle as good as he can and still manage to win.

I don't think many people would put a 40€ account on the line just to join a PB and leave, leaving clear evidence for the devs to use against him. Its easy to spot an alt when he does nearly no fights and most of his activities is just trading stuff with the same person 75% of the time.

I only have problems with alts joining PB's and doing bad tags. If you get scammed its your own fault, this might as wel happen to you IRL. If they use stong language just report them like you would with any other player.

However I still believe that the real hardcore players might still play dirty, but I don't think many will go as low as ruining a possible great and even fight. If they would be realy determined to do so we would see this way more often. Maybe with return of conquest flags it'll be harder to get alts in position to ruin gameplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 0:04 AM, Kiithnaras said:

No, it does not win battles directly, but it does afford the nation with more characters per player to field the best possible ships for the engagement and heavily weights the odds in their favor

You misunderstand. If, for instance, Nation A increases hostility to 90% but fails to hit the mark before the battle-scheduling window closes, it makes it feasible for alts to work in concert with Nation A's enemy and raise it to 100% at a time that isn't feasible for Nation A to attend.

This in particular is a point of contention since this sort of thing was explicitly stated as a bannable offense, "Using alts to abuse Hostility mechanics [or anything other than Spying and Economic Espionage]," by @admin, and to my knowledge not one alt that has been discovered and proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, to be responsible for this sort of behavior (Charles Hunter, of particular note) has received substantive punitive action.

To clarify, this is not an attack on spying or economic treason. I am wholly in favor of these being a player's choice. Some people really love being spies and smugglers, I can dig it. That sort of person does enhance the gameplay experience and make it feel alive and interesting. All I am saying is that if someone chooses to be a spy, they should only be a spy and not playing four different sides on four different characters.

On the flip side, if the developers are really okay with alts - open it up. Let us have multiple characters on one account. There are a host of other means of generating revenue besides buying separate accounts.

Edit: Chief among these options, instead of buying another account for yourself, how about buying a copy for a friend or friend of friend? I would feel vastly more comfortable and engaged in the game having six people with one account each (even if I'm staring down their guns) rather than one person with six accounts.

If you guys had your rear admirals use 1st rates and do curse missions to raise hostility you wouldn't keep missing the hostility. Instead, you guys (Pretty much every player from the carebear alliance that posts here) keep using stupid excuses to justify their lack of skill, courage or knowledge of the game.

The Black Clan is too good to be in the pvp2 server.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@The Spud, We gave the devs a solid case; photographic evidence and first-hand witness accounts of Charles Hunter was provided doing exactly that (abusing hostility, deliberately joining and not contributing to fights, etc.), and "popular sentiment" was not in favor of a ban, therefore no direct punitive action was taken.

@Simon Cadete, I would kindly ask you to keep baseless ad hominem attacks out of Suggestions and address the issue at hand. Your position appears to be that you are in favor of maintaining your disproportionately-high amount of alt accounts in order to field your 35+ first-rate groups faster than they can be captured from you or sank. Also, no one is forcing you to stay on PvP2.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...