Proviant, crew in OW, long voyages

[Koltes]

With the recent notification from the devs that we can finally use fleet's hold I suggest the following:

- AI hold is also manageable from Battle Screen not just in port;
- Out in the OW captain has what he has taken with him including crew, proviant, special ammo (if implemented later), trade goods;
- Crew requires proviant to survive, thus proviant is a consumable sustenance that is reduced every day at sea;
- It is possible to carry reserve proviant on merchant ship that is in the player's fleet;
- Thus very long voyages require plan route to fill in the consumables or make a choice to risk crew's lives and attack other ships to get proviant

Goal is to add more gameplay though sensible mechanics without adding too much of a routine. Crew management was always a big part of sailing games naturally adding content and another variant - hungry crew might fight/sail with a penalty or eventually even start dying.

This is easy enough to implement as it requires no graphical patch. Testing this feature might reveal another interesting aspects. Worse case scenario this wont work and will be scratched, but as testers we have a good opportunity to check this out.

Edited February 23, 2017 by koltes

[shaeberle84]

The feature will add realism, but after a short period wil only be an annoyance.

[Koltes]

20 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

The feature will add realism, but after a short period wil only be an annoyance.

And you are so 100% sure of it that you wont even test it? Isn't it what we are here for?

To test and prove that your are right. Or mayby prove that this will bring more macro management, more side effects and unpredictability? Your call. But I'm here to test my ideas as well as yours too. What are they?

[shaeberle84]

I think we should test things that make the game more enjoyable. Right now, the game is already pretty complex and pretty realisitic. If changes should be made, then in the other direction.

Take crew management. It is just a money sink. Of course you will always try to have full crew, so you spend gold or take officer perks that let you capture crew. But it does not add any deepness or tactical options to fights.

If the crew requires proviant, everyone will stack their ships with proviant. Nobody risks a ship because of dying crew. It is just another money sink.

PLUS it will discourage people from taking long voyages or even from being on the open water, and instead to duels and challanges. This should not be the target of a suggested change. If anything, people should be more on the open water.

 

[Corona Lisa]

No, because its fking boring and adds nothing to the game.

[Guest sruPL]

Would be another time sink leading to less time for PvP. We better think how to revive PvP on PvP Server. This sounds like kinda cool idea for PvE Server, no offense.

[Fargo]

I dont think the general idea is so bad.

With different types of food you could compile different proviants that could have different (slight) effects on your crew. Would also be good for economy that needs different people producing different goods and enough money sinks.

Just dont make it another resource that simply needs to be refilled, or that just more expensive food provides better boni. Crew should consume proviants very slowly, so people are not afraight of loosing money by sailing around for fun.

However right now there are more important problems.

 

[Guest sruPL]

24 minutes ago, Fargo said:

I dont think the general idea is so bad.

With different types of food you could compile different proviants that could have different (slight) effects on your crew. Would also be good for economy that needs different people producing different goods and enough money sinks.

Just dont make it another resource that simply needs to be refilled, or that just more expensive food provides better boni. Crew should consume proviants very slowly, so people are not afraight of loosing money by sailing around for fun.

However right now there are more important problems.

 

We have lots of resources that has to be produced and most shops are empty in capitals...

[Fargo]

Just now, sruPL said:

We have lots of resources that has to be produced and most shops are empty in capitals...

Markets are dead right now nevertheless, just ignore that.

We have lots of resources, but most of them are used for the same purpose. Imagine we had professions, there wouldnt be much choice. But forget about it, its really not important or worth to discuss.

[Koltes]

10 hours ago, shaeberle84 said:

Take crew management. It is just a money sink. Of course you will always try to have full crew, so you spend gold or take officer perks that let you capture crew. But it does not add any deepness or tactical options to fights.
Yes it does, you just need to elaborate on it. Devs told us they are working on proper cargo hold mechanics. Crafting a ship will be like using runners, choose extra crew space and you get less cargo for example. Proviant takes cargo space too means less for everything else. Today you have nothing that actually affects crew morale, health, ability to fight. Are you telling me the game should stop at that?
Regarding deepness or tactical options to fight: more supplies you take with you less ammo. med kits etc. More cargo = less crew space etc, thus affects sailing parameters of the ship.
There you are in the OW hunting solo for days. Sooner or later you will have to make decisions to go back to port. On a way back you tagged a trader. Fighting him will be harder, because your crew is tired and hungry and fights in half strength. Thus it affects your ships parameters too. It actually gives trader some hope. But during the battle you finally board him and take his ship. The day is saved and you get his proviant and his ship to carry extra for you.

This is not just a time sink. It gives you content. It creates options, side effects of your decisions etc.
 

If the crew requires proviant, everyone will stack their ships with proviant. Nobody risks a ship because of dying crew. It is just another money sink.
Ships were loaded with huge loads of proviant for a reason. They had to survive the voyage. If you were on a military ship it was loaded with proviant, yes. And capturing another ship will make you think should you through some provisions away and take full cargo?
 

PLUS it will discourage people from taking long voyages or even from being on the open water, and instead to duels and challanges. This should not be the target of a suggested change. If anything, people should be more on the open water.
Don't be a drama queen. Listening to your theory people would stop playing FPS games just because they have limited ammo. Would never touch GTA because they have to fill in the gas. Would never play RPG like Fallout just because they can run out of everything...

 

 

9 hours ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

No, because its fking boring and adds nothing to the game.

It adds nothing to your game because you are "fking bored" already.
Important to note that partial reason why you are "fking bored" is because you refuse to add or even test new things.

 

9 hours ago, sruPL said:

Would be another time sink leading to less time for PvP. We better think how to revive PvP on PvP Server. This sounds like kinda cool idea for PvE Server, no offense.

No offense taken mate. Every opinion matters, as long as it is constructive.
We all know that whats killing PVP is the carebear mechanics. People can't understand that hardcore PVPers don't need babysitting. They want freedom to roam and attack anybody. They want to suffer consequences of full on PVP world. Today we have too much features that deny PVP. Towers, defenses, tag circles, inability to attack anyone you want, carebear alliances, ships that you can't sail if they are not gold, but if they are gold players dont want to sail them... errr
If this gets sorted you wont have an issue of lacking PVP players.

I'm not saying that this feature is a priority one. Not at all. I'm merely discussing another way to add content to the game through OW ship management tools.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by koltes

[Corona Lisa]

Just now, koltes said:

It adds nothing to your game because you are "fking bored" already.
Important to note that partial reason why you are "fking bored" is because you refuse to add or even test new things.

I dont know what you want to test about it. Its literally just an annoying extra button you have to press before you leave the port. And its not like you get a feeling like "whoa, my food is empty, now I have to go back to a port again and afk sail for half an hour extra. Feels great."

Thats just my opinion ofc, which you asked for in your poll: "No (if no, pls state why)".

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

I dont know what you want to test about it. Its literally just an annoying extra button you have to press before you leave the port. And its not like you get a feeling like "whoa, my food is empty, now I have to go back to a port again and afk sail for half an hour extra. Feels great."

Thats just my opinion ofc, which you asked for in your poll: "No (if no, pls state why)".

I said that because you have chosen to conclude your opinion only on the partial mechanic proposed. Its called selective hearing. All you have visualized is the "time sink" seeing this as you have to sail there and there to recover proviant blah blah blah. No more play - only sailing around hunting for the proviant blah blah. This is your verdict, which shows that you have spent about 5 seconds analyzing it.

I dont know what you want to test about it.
I want to test Open World simplified ship management. Why? It somewhat equalizes players of different ranks if they sail same ships. Two Reno's sailed by different rank captains (none of them undercrewing) should have same number of crew available to them. Today this is not true, because higher rank captain will always replenish his crew from the magical pool and be able to retag fully crewed again.
It also adds to the content. It makes existing content different. How? It makes ships and player abilities vary too. Two same setup ships with equal players wont be the same if one side is hungry. Hmm this is called diversion and immersion and always leaves an unknown factor in the game without being OP.

In terms of time sink. During long voyages your crew will be fishing so its not much of an issue anyway. You can also attack NPC traders to get their supplies if you are too far from your destination and stuck without food.
But during raids being on a navy ship you will have to make decisions/ You can't just perma camp ports for example. Just to replenish food supplies you must leave an area for at least short time giving people chance to get out.

Its just one example. The other is that it will be part of crew mechanics that we all wait.
(!) In today's battles if I'm top rank Curse sailing Reno and attacked another player say Master and Commander sailing same Reno we should be equal because none of us undercrewing, but in reality he is still in huge disadvantage. After the battle when he looses his men he can't replenish his crew from the magic pool that Curse can. If I retag him I will always stay with more crew and even though my opponent was not undercrewing he now have less crew then me. Why? We sailed same ships. Surely we supposed to have same number of crew?

Combine this with another mechanics proposed many times - that in OW you only have what you have taken with you (which means that in order to carry more crew you will have to take more fleet) surely this will make everyone to carry all their available crew on fleet ships with them unless... provisions will make this a hard decision. At the end of the day, more crew you take on the mission - more food you need to keep them happy.
This gives guys with smaller ranks some hope of being more competitive vs higher ranks.

Edited February 23, 2017 by koltes

[Macjimm]

I wouldn't want see an additional requirement imposed on those who really hate this kind of stuff.

But. Perhaps there is a way to make this optional.  Currently players are not required to complete a mission but if they choose to do so, they receive gold and XP.  Maybe there is a way to allow a player the choice to add provisions without forcing other to use it also.

Personally I would be very enthusiastic to toggle on a feature that allowed my crew to consume provisions and entitled me to extra reward for the increased risk.  Perhaps add sickness and crew loss too.  If it was optional then those players who don't want to bothered with it (boring, annoying, too complicated) do not have to deal with it.  The players who choose to enjoy the added feature would be the only ones who have to click an extra button.

But alas ... it has nothing to do with fighting, so is a very low priority and unlikely to be considered seriously.

I would vote yes if it was added as a option.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Macjimm
Spellingk and grammar

[Koltes]

1 minute ago, Macjimm said:

I wouldn't want see an additional requirement imposed on those who really hate this kind of stuff.

But. Perhaps there is a way to make this optional.  Currently players are not required to complete a mission but if they choose to do they receive gold and XP.  Maybe there is a was to allow a player the choice to add provisions without forcing other to use it also.

Personally I would be very enthusiastic to toggle on a feature that allowed my crew to consume provisions and entitled me to extra reward for the increased risk.  Perhaps add sickness and crew loss too.  If it was optional then those players who don't want to bothered with it (boring, annoying, too complicated) do not have to deal with it.  The players who choose to enjoy the added feature would be the only ones who have to click an extra button.

But alas ... it has nothing to do with fighting, so is a very low priority and unlikely to be considered seriously.

I would vote yes if it was added as a option.

 

Thanks for your constructive input! I actually like that - not having provisions makes no penalty, but having provisions adds crew bonues

[Pad Seayew]

It seems an unnecessary complication, the necessity being making things fun.  Realism is fine, but make it fun in a game.

It's kind of like crew management, just a numbers game, numbers and sliders.  NA reels from these extremes, one to the other.  From combat that looks like a Geoff Hunt painting come to life, with sounds that set your heart beating faster, to the ultra mundane UI and an accountant's idea of a fun night out.

Less calculator gameplay, more gunpowder and the spray of the sea.

[Marques]

 

[Farrago]

I initially said "Yes" let's give it a try. I thought it might get folks visiting more freeports to re-provision creating more PVP opportunities. However, with the (necessary) time compression in OW, you can sail across the map in just a few hours real time. I don't think anyone wants to add rest stops during an already tedious task. I mean, realistically, how many game days do you stay out before putting in to a port? Certainly not more than any of these vessels could sustain themselves.

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Farrago said:

I initially said "Yes" let's give it a try. I thought it might get folks visiting more freeports to re-provision creating more PVP opportunities. However, with the (necessary) time compression in OW, you can sail across the map in just a few hours real time. I don't think anyone wants to add rest stops during an already tedious task. I mean, realistically, how many game days do you stay out before putting in to a port? Certainly not more than any of these vessels could sustain themselves.

No this means that to suvive voyage you have to load your ship for the long voyage with as much proviant as you can means less fighting loads like special ammo. Less repair kits (those spare planks took alot of space as well as spare sails). No problem for trader though.

You cant just sail for months and get into 25vs25 fights. You need to prep your ship first

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

If I am reading this correctly DayZ and a few Arma gametypes such as Wasteland and Altis Life does a similar mechanic. It adds realism but after a while it becomes the biggest nuisance in that game. Majority of your kit is full of canned goods and pop. Many community owened servers remove those mechanics for sake of fun.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[Farrago]

36 minutes ago, koltes said:

No this means that to suvive voyage you have to load your ship for the long voyage with as much proviant as you can means less fighting loads like special ammo. Less repair kits (those spare planks took alot of space as well as spare sails). No problem for trader though.

You cant just sail for months and get into 25vs25 fights. You need to prep your ship first

Okay. If we start needing to provision ships with other consumables like ammo, I'm okay giving it a try.