Dura done right for proper PVP game

[Koltes]

1 dura can easily work, if the rest of the mechanic is adjusted and work in line with it.


1. All ships have 1 Dura if killed/capped by another player;
2. Ships killed/capped by AI appear as wreck in the ocean that can be recovered by whoever, but the exact coordinates are only available to the owner who got sunk;
3. It is still possible to sail back and recover the wreck (just like the tow to another port after DT function) or break down and recover installed mods and sink the wreck;
4. Ship wrecks delivered to the port can be restored / repaired for X amount of labor hours, money, materials;
5. All installed upgrades (permanent and regular) stay with the ship so either sink or being captured;
6. All upgrades are craftable. Those that are rare upgrades just cost much more to produce;
7. All quality ships (common, good, fine etc) have same number of upgrade slots (3-5), but quality of upgrades cannot be higher than quality of the ship itself (fine ship can only have fine or lower quality upgrades installed);
8. There should be insurance in place - if ship is sunk by another player 80% of the cost is recovered by the insurance;
9. Wrecks sink in 1 hour if not recovered

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by koltes

[Powderhorn]

Doesn't this increase a lot of "dead" sailing time?  Just running back to recover a body?

I think we might have similar thoughts though, and I feel that the pain of mods could be resolved by ditching them in favor of officers.  I actually recently wrote a proposal for one duras over here, which you might find spurs some more thoughts on the subject.

[Koltes]

13 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Doesn't this increase a lot of "dead" sailing time?  Just running back to recover a body?

 

No, this is optional. Today if you lost your ship to AI in the mission its gone. Now you have an option to sail to recover your good mission vessel. Combined with insurance this is an incentive to encourage of use of higher quality ships.

[Powderhorn]

Ah, my own proposal encourages a greater mix of vessels, I believe.  Or, put another way, I believe my proposal would result in a healthy mix of vessels of different characteristics, rather than encouraging people to try to stay in the same vessel after it is "lost."  Would be interested in your thoughts on the proposal I wrote up.  Maybe it might sway your opinion some.  But I think we both agree that 1 dura is a better way to go than multi-dura.

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

Ah, my own proposal encourages a greater mix of vessels, I believe.  Or, put another way, I believe my proposal would result in a healthy mix of vessels of different characteristics, rather than encouraging people to try to stay in the same vessel after it is "lost."  Would be interested in your thoughts on the proposal I wrote up.  Maybe it might sway your opinion some.  But I think we both agree that 1 dura is a better way to go than multi-dura.

I did read you proposal and while I haven't disagreed with it as it has lots of potential (I really liked the Officer perks, though I want them to be more of your character build tree) I felt that you still referred to the old OW game mechanic that we have today.

Example you pointing that the economy and crafting as a dull business more of a chore than good a gameplay and thats why you dont want ships to be lost as easy. While it is true that they are more of a chore its also true that in future they most likely to be changed for the better. Time will come and we will work on the economy and crafting.

I believe that my proposal:
a). gives (as you have mentioned) meaning to each battle;
b). with insurance - coves the looses of the player;
c). because losses are not permanent (no more rare drop mods/upgrades - all craftable and 80% is recovered by insurance) thus such a loss will be more of a nuisance, than a real unrecoverable loss that kills the game for a player;
d). there will be more use of lesser quality ships if all of them will have same 3-5 number of upgrade slots available. Players will use what they can afford to lose and still will be competitive;
e). and finally this will create more content, i.e. if I'm a pirate and I accidentally discovered a wreck i could inspect it and see if its a good quality one and if it is I might decide to ambush the player possibly coming back for his ship. Same thing can happen to me if that player brings recovery help. Possibilities of additional player made content are endless. In future, proper economy would allow players to run Insurance businesses, list their services as recovery fleet, when they sail and recover player's wreck on his behalf for a fee etc etc.

Kind regards,

[Crayon]

This brings back the possibility to 'post battle' camp.

10/10

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only thing I'd raise an eyebrow at is if I cap a ship then I want it. I don't want to have to sail around looking for the wreck after I board and capture it. And as I read your proposal this is how it seems you've described the mechanic working?

If the ship is sunk by you (player) then its sunk properly. There is no wreck. If it was capped by you (player) then its yours immediately. Again no wreck to recover, hence why when it comes to PVP its 1 dura only just like 1st rates now.
 

However, if sunk/captured by AI then it appeared as wreck within medium size circle area. Wreck recovery mechanic kicks in.

1 hour ago, koltes said:

2. Ships killed/capped by AI appear as wreck in the ocean that can be recovered by whoever, but the exact coordinates are only available to the owner who got sunk;

[jodgi]

@koltes, what is it this would achieve, what is your goal?

[Thonys]

I personally prefer 1 dura ships 

upgrades and slots and permanents are only possible by the included build of the ship

i do know its a hard way to ,but i sometimes hear people say "who cares i have ten of them in my ports " what mean the ship sometimes have no meaning of them at all and that has to change to, for making surrender situations to  save a crew/or ship  from being sunk .. when making a ship 1 dura they have to think more to make a good decision

[Sir Texas Sir]

I still think we need dura's on the lower tier ships.  I don't think going to 3 on SOL is going to help anything.  The guys that don't take there ships out cause of fear of getting sunk still won't take them out.   Carebears are going to be crebears.   We see tons of Buccs in fights so it would be the same with the multi dura, they bring them until they get to the last and than they stop showing up.  Specially with how expensive it will be to build them if it's three times the resources.  I kinda like this concept, but it would need a bit tweeking and I don't think it should apply to all ships.  I always been a fan of doing something like this instead of all ships 1 dura:

SOL:  1 DURA

Frivates:  2

Lights:  3

Though I'm more of a fan of doing the current system we have with koltes system to retrieve your lost shisp to PvE.  That gives the PvEr's a little insureance, but keeps the PvPers happy with the current system.  Please no insurance either.....I"m pretty sure they didn't ahve insurance back than, but most ships owed a lots of money so in trueth I would prefer to see a cost to maintain the bigger ships not just the repair cost.  They should be expensive.

Ships that newer players will be in need multi duras cause the learning curve is so hard on this game and unless you know the system it's hard to get that first ship you really want.   I think we need a complete wipe to remind folks of that cause we currently have to many folks sitting on tons of mats that can just pump out any ship they want and then we have a bunch of newer guys that are struggling to stay in ships.  The majority folks my clan sinks aren't the old timers, it's the new guys that come out and fight.  It's the guys sitting on the stacks of stuff that aren't helping the new guys.

[Koltes]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Please no insurance either.....I"m pretty sure they didn't ahve insurance back than, but most ships owed a lots of money so in trueth I would prefer to see a cost to maintain the bigger ships not just the repair cost.  They should be expensive.

Pretty sure some forms of insurances existed from the ancient times. In medieval era separate to investment insurance contracts were invented in Italy that later leaded to Marine Insurance in late 15th century.

Personally I would not care if there is insurance or not. But and its a big "but" we dont want people to stop sailing their ships is what most of those who oppose 1 dura are afraid of.
1 dura gives PVPers a good pvp reward.

Insurance reduces loses of those on the other end of the winners table. Well perhaps not 80% recovery but are least 50-60% maybe.
It will be win-win mechanic for both sides.

Edited February 22, 2017 by koltes

[Koltes]

20 hours ago, jodgi said:

@koltes, what is it this would achieve, what is your goal?

It will achieve the following:

1. All ships have 1 Dura if killed/capped by another player;
Hunting rewards becomes real. If you cap a ship its the proper ship that you can use with proper upgrades. Right now 99.9% of ships capped is a break down or fireship business. Rewards become more meaningful as well as loses.

2. Ships killed/capped by AI appear as wreck in the ocean that can be recovered by whoever, but the exact coordinates are only available to the owner who got sunk;
3. It is still possible to sail back and recover the wreck (just like the tow to another port after DT function) or break down and recover installed mods and sink the wreck;
At the same time ships sunk from AI have unlimited life. They become wreck that can be restored. This gives players (especially new players) ways to recover their ships lost in missions. Makes learning curve less risky with a better content flow at the same time, i.e. if newb lost a ship he will be given coordinates to find his wreck. So he has to learn how to navigate using coordinates to sail back and recover wreck. At the same time this might create additional content for players who spotted the wreck and decided to ambush the owner.

4. Ship wrecks delivered to the port can be restored / repaired for X amount of labor hours, money, materials;
There are no free breakfasts. Player still feels the loss through time/materials spent restoring the ship. However this is still recoverable and no absolute loss/damage done to player's enjoyment. Less rage quits (though I can't care less for the latter ones ).

5. All installed upgrades (permanent and regular) stay with the ship so either sink or being captured;
Greater and more meaningful rewards for PVP. Encouraging more PVP engagements. Also allows to somewhat avoid crafting to those who does not want to craft. Proper player loot is always a good thing in PVP game if done right... ALWAYS!

6. All upgrades are craftable. Those that are rare upgrades just cost much more to produce;
Yes if done right. This one allows relatively easy recovery from the loss. No more non recoverable upgrades. If you lose your upgrades on the ship, they need to be craftable.

7. All quality ships (common, good, fine etc) have same number of upgrade slots (3-5), but quality of upgrades cannot be higher than quality of the ship itself (fine ship can only have fine or lower quality upgrades installed);
This makes uses of lower quality ships in the game. If there will be different quality woods available to craft different quality ships and mods and higher quality means lots more expensive then naturally people will be sailing what they can afford to lose. This gives players access to cheap ships that are still usable (all ships have 3-5 upgrades) and at the same time does not make that huge difference between blue quality Frigate and gold quality Frigate, hence why lower quality will be a welcome choice still. Today there is no choice. There is only one quality woods that is a waste if not used on gold ships/upgrades.
Make production of Green 1st rate 5 million and production of Gold 1st rate 50 million and all of a sudden there will only be few gold sailing around. All in all this will give much more diversity to the game and combat as you just never know what you will encounter, thus adds to the overall enjoyment

8. There should be insurance in place - if ship is sunk by another player 80% of the cost is recovered by the insurance;
Personally I dont need that, but I do recognize the fact that some carebears just wont sail their best ships being afraid to lose it. They more into collectors business rather then being a proper captains. Having said that we need to address those players too. Insurance is a way to go especially since it is historical fact that marine insurances existed since late 15th century. It does not have to be 80%. Can be a bit less, but substantial amount still recovered. Again not loosing everything to one fight creates better appreciation of the game and less rage quits.

9. Wrecks sink in 1 hour if not recovered
We can't have 100s of wrecks floating around the sea. Also player who spotted a wreck will know for a fact that it was recent loss.

[lohi]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:44 AM, koltes said:

1 dura can easily work, if the rest of the mechanic is adjusted and work in line with it.


1. All ships have 1 Dura if killed/capped by another player;

I like the idea this will as well revive the economy as much more ships are going to be used, crafted thereby making crafting a viable part of the game

2. Ships killed/capped by AI appear as wreck in the ocean that can be recovered by whoever, but the exact coordinates are only available to the owner who got sunk;

The issue here could be with that many wrecks i do not know how much strain that will put on the servers since we are potentially talking about hundreds/thousands of items that server will have to render but otherwise i like it since it will give newer players a way to recover losses. Maybe make them not visible to all but if you open a bottle you can get a location of such wreck(do not know if that can be made to work with 1h life time of the wreck)

3. It is still possible to sail back and recover the wreck (just like the tow to another port after DT function) or break down and recover installed mods and sink the wreck;

See above 

4. Ship wrecks delivered to the port can be restored / repaired for X amount of labor hours, money, materials;

5. All installed upgrades (permanent and regular) stay with the ship so either sink or being captured;

6. All upgrades are craftable. Those that are rare upgrades just cost much more to produce;

7. All quality ships (common, good, fine etc) have same number of upgrade slots (3-5), but quality of upgrades cannot be higher than quality of the ship itself (fine ship can only have fine or lower quality upgrades installed);

I agree looking at permanent upgrades but maybe regular should be allowed to be gold on a basic ship since it is an addon after the ships is built

8. There should be insurance in place - if ship is sunk by another player 80% of the cost is recovered by the insurance;

Good idea but maybe the insurance could work based on the rank. So that newer players can get 80% if for ex. ensign, 70% 2Lt etc. anad when you reach a higher rank insurance is either gone completely as an option or is decreased to like 5-10%

9. Wrecks sink in 1 hour if not recovered

 

My 0.02$

[Koltes]

41 minutes ago, lohi said:

2. Ships killed/capped by AI appear as wreck in the ocean that can be recovered by whoever, but the exact coordinates are only available to the owner who got sunk;
The issue here could be with that many wrecks i do not know how much strain that will put on the servers since we are potentially talking about hundreds/thousands of items that server will have to render but otherwise i like it since it will give newer players a way to recover losses. Maybe make them not visible to all but if you open a bottle you can get a location of such wreck(do not know if that can be made to work with 1h life time of the wreck)
Point "9. Wrecks sink in 1 hour if not recovered" will ensure that the above is not an issue  

7. All quality ships (common, good, fine etc) have same number of upgrade slots (3-5), but quality of upgrades cannot be higher than quality of the ship itself (fine ship can only have fine or lower quality upgrades installed);
I agree looking at permanent upgrades but maybe regular should be allowed to be gold on a basic ship since it is an addon after the ships is built
Problem is that this will make too little difference between the ship qualities. In theory this will sound like: you would not buy expensive silk sails for a ship that was made cheaply from rough materials and barely hold in medium storms and even if you put those sails on it wont be able to sail much faster anyway. There is no point right? Same quality upgrades as the ship itself is simple and easy to understand. If you want to use gold upgrades get yourself a ship that can fit them  

8. There should be insurance in place - if ship is sunk by another player 80% of the cost is recovered by the insurance;
Good idea but maybe the insurance could work based on the rank. So that newer players can get 80% if for ex. ensign, 70% 2Lt etc. anad when you reach a higher rank insurance is either gone completely as an option or is decreased to like 5-10%
I see were you coming from, but the more expensive ships you sail more people tend not to use them in PVP being afraid to lose them. Insurance will help them to be more active. Insurance should be dependent on the rate and quality of the ship. This is fair  

 

 

[jodgi]

Overall the 1 dura idea is ok, parts of it is really cool.

My perspective is nothing beats (close to fair/even) PvP, nothing else is holy to me whether it is eco, trading, crafting, duras and yes, even RvR. So my input may be disregarded depending on your own preferences.

4 hours ago, koltes said:

Rewards become more meaningful as well as loses.

So real and meaningful it cools down PvP, that is the fear and the reason we have duras. Your statement makes sense but in this case the balance between logic, sense and fun (willingness to fight) is a delicate one. For my part I don't need someone to lose something to make a victory mean something to me.

4 hours ago, koltes said:

Less rage quits (though I can't care less for the latter ones ).

I care a lot about that. I want people to stay here and fight me.

5 hours ago, koltes said:

Also allows to somewhat avoid crafting to those who does not want to craft.

This would be fantastic! I ground to lvl 50 right away because "I had to" but I get no joy or entertainment from it. Crafting and eco does give some context to the game but isn't worth it for me if it makes people avoid fighting.

5 hours ago, koltes said:

All upgrades are craftable.

Agree! I strongly dislike WoW type special things that actually mean something in a fight.

5 hours ago, koltes said:

then naturally people will be sailing what they can afford to lose.

Because EVE is such a great example of a PvP game, right? I will cry my heart out if we get the same PvE/PvP ratio as EVE. I'm extremely sceptical about the whole "what you can afford to lose" principle, I view it as a cool sounding euphemism for quitting players and lack of PvP hell.

5 hours ago, koltes said:

There should be insurance in place

Insurance sounds good. People not having to worry about grinding to replace lost stuff is a good thing.

Tax on fun is an utterly terrible thing. I can find no positives about it based on my motivation to play any game.

I'm not opposed to testing 1 dura gameplay. If it, contrary to my beliefs, works for this game (+fun) then anything goes. Though, I'd rather go with anything you've ground up to you get to keep and use forever. The only thing I want to worry about is a repair bill I'm easily able to pay for with PvP exclusive gameplay. I'm aware this has deep reaching consequences for eco so I only keep it as a secret dream. 

[Koltes]

19 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Overall the 1 dura idea is ok, parts of it is really cool.
Cheers

My perspective is nothing beats (close to fair/even) PvP, nothing else is holy to me whether it is eco, trading, crafting, duras and yes, even RvR. So my input may be disregarded depending on your own preferences.
Mine too so we are on the same page and wanting the same thing. Just believe that its the different mechanics that will bring us there.
 

Rewards become more meaningful as well as loses
So real and meaningful it cools down PvP, that is the fear and the reason we have duras. Your statement makes sense but in this case the balance between logic, sense and fun (willingness to fight) is a delicate one. For my part I don't need someone to lose something to make a victory mean something to me.
This is the fear that I hear all the time mate. Thats why in order to reduce PVP regrets the following mechanics proposed among with 1 dura:
1. Insurance - reduce loss;
2. Lower quality ships are more usable and much cheaper to replace. I see those to be used much more often. Right now people dont want to lose their best gold ships, but more usable less quality ships will allow them to pvp and be competitive still;
3. Today top rank players mainly afraid to lose non craftable upgrades. Hence why I propose all upgrades craftable AND lootable. If you lose you can craft more. If you win you get another set without crafting;
4. Finally "someone loosing" does not make my Victory, but me gaining like loot their upgrades etc, does. Besides, is you are a generous person you could give player's loot back.
5. Forgot to mention - Surrender button needs to have proper option. Spare their life and let them go, or kill them all. Then you could even let them go with their loot too. Imagine how this game will shine when people will be able to do that.

 

Less rage quits (though I can't care less for the latter ones ).
I care a lot about that. I want people to stay here and fight me.
From experience if people rage quit they dont cut for this game and wont last long anyway. Will be waste of time trying to make them happy.

 

then naturally people will be sailing what they can afford to lose
Because EVE is such a great example of a PvP game, right? I will cry my heart out if we get the same PvE/PvP ratio as EVE. I'm extremely sceptical about the whole "what you can afford to lose" principle, I view it as a cool sounding euphemism for quitting players and lack of PvP hell.
This is not true at all mate. If you must compare with EVE then you using wrong examples of EVE. In terms of PVP compare combat vs combat and NA has nothing in common with EVE. NA has way better fighting for me than EVE, yet that game lasted for over 10 years and there certainly some aspects that needs to be taken into account that been successful for it.
"Fly what you can afford to lose" in EVE means that don't waste your money on something that you can't afford or cant fly. Why? (and this is the key point here) Because even small ships like frigates could be fearsome enemy and all of them are capable adversary. So you can take the ship that you can loose and still be very competitive.
This is the key point there with different quality ships. Thats why I want them to be much less expensive and still be competitive enough. They can lose tons of them and it wont break their bank.
 

 

Tax on fun is an utterly terrible thing.
Not sure what you mean by Tax?

 

 

 

[fox2run]

I like many duras. They make me take chances. Now I don't use my many SOLs. Hmmm. Why not? They have only one dura.

Many duras makes PvP more likely.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by fox2run

[akd]

Wait, you have many one dura SoLs but you won't use them because they have one dura?

[Cmdr RideZ]

Wrote to the other thread but...

I have started to think that instead of dura drop we should have quality drop.  All ships crafted as exceptionals.  Sinking twice and your exceptional turns to MC.  Sink couple times more and you have a Fine one.  etc.

Could have different quality drops for each rate.  1st rate could be just exceptional and lost immediately if sank.  If captured, will turn to MC.  etc.

[fox2run]

15 minutes ago, akd said:

Wait, you have many one dura SoLs but you won't use them because they have one dura?

I craft all these SOLs. But somehow I never use them. They takes too long to craft to just sail out to sea. It's too risky. And the mechanisms to ensure I can use them in a big battle are absent. So... No...

If my frigates where more expensive, I would probably avoid risky OW actions and raids. No... I would not play at all. Now I play occasionally. But am bored as too few battles and too much waiting.

Edited February 22, 2017 by fox2run

[Blackjack Morgan]

I'm just not convinced at the end of the day 1 dura ships are going to accomplish anything. I don't see a difference between having one 5 dura ship or having five ships with 1 dura. All this looks like in the end is that more time in game will need to be spent on crafting and running around doing econ crap which not everyone enjoys. I struggle to see how this dynamic enriches the game. I can see it making even more people risk averse to pvp situations they do not have a clear advantage in....which already includes the majority of people. Currently, people have a lot of ships in dock because they simply are not losing them at a high enough attrition rate. That could be due to their play style of avoiding any risky fights, or only fighting in a gank situation, low population making fights less frequent....etc. 

Furthermore, you mention insurance on the ships which would replace 80% of the cost of the ship if sunk. So, what the heck are we achieving if you get most of your money back if the ship sinks? Might be great if you enjoy transporting mats and building ships but other than that it just looks to be a pain in the ass.

[Koltes]

10 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

I'm just not convinced at the end of the day 1 dura ships are going to accomplish anything. I don't see a difference between having one 5 dura ship or having five ships with 1 dura. All this looks like in the end is that more time in game will need to be spent on crafting and running around doing econ crap which not everyone enjoys. I struggle to see how this dynamic enriches the game. I can see it making even more people risk averse to pvp situations they do not have a clear advantage in....which already includes the majority of people. Currently, people have a lot of ships in dock because they simply are not losing them at a high enough attrition rate. That could be due to their play style of avoiding any risky fights, or only fighting in a gank situation, low population making fights less frequent....etc. 

Furthermore, you mention insurance on the ships which would replace 80% of the cost of the ship if sunk. So, what the heck are we achieving if you get most of your money back if the ship sinks? Might be great if you enjoy transporting mats and building ships but other than that it just looks to be a pain in the ass.

It is unfortunate that it is the only thing that you see mate.

I don't see a difference between having one 5 dura ship or having five ships with 1 dura
Difference is that you have to have x5 times more mods/upgrades/supplies on it which means it boosts player economy that can only happen if ships will be sinking.
Also this makes all ships meaningful. Right now if you cap a ship its useless and basically doomed to fleet, breakup or become a fireship.


All this looks like in the end is that more time in game will need to be spent on crafting and running around doing econ crap which not everyone enjoys
No true at all. This gives players ability to enjoy crafting/economy if this is what they like doing, but at the same time it give you (the player who doesn't like crafting) way to acquire same mods/upgrades by looting and avoid crafting altogether.


I struggle to see how this dynamic enriches the game. I can see it making even more people risk averse to pvp situations they do not have a clear advantage in....which already includes the majority of people
Please read OP carefully about different ship qualities becoming more useful. If a player has a gold ship that he really doesn't like using (which is the case now with that type of player anyway) he has an option to preserve that expensive ship and sail cheaper version of it that is still usable AND competitive in combat. I strongly believe that this will actually increase PVP like you have never seen before.

Here is scenario. All ships 1 dura. You have 10 million capital on your account. You have a gold frigate that costed you lets say 5 million or (if you crafted it) days to gather gold resources. You have another 5 mil left on your account. You dont want to use gold frigate too much risking of loosing it. Fair enough. So you have bought from another player a blue frigate that cost 100k or even green frigate for 10k. Even though those ships are really disposable they have same wood characteristics. All they lacking is quality of upgrades so all upgrades on the blue ship are also blue. This actually gives lower rank / poorer guy a chance to play competitively.
Are you saying that in this scenario you are still going to be sitting in the port and not risking to sail on 10-100k ships?  Is this what you are telling me or did you not really thought it through? I'm not trolling. I just really want to know how much of a carebear, carebear can possibly be. Again not addressing this to you personally, but trying to understand different type of player. I have played plenty of carebear style myself, but obviously not to that extend.


Currently, people have a lot of ships in dock because they simply are not losing them at a high enough attrition rate. That could be due to their play style of avoiding any risky fights, or only fighting in a gank situation
Or because they are not loosing them because of the fact that they cant loose them fast enough? You have to sink one ship 5 times before its owner will have to buy another ship.
Making price greatly vary between quality of ships making lower quality dirt cheap and more usable and best quality very expensive. What I'm saying is that with 1 dura we also need very cheap ships to sail. Then people wont care at all if they loose it.


Furthermore, you mention insurance on the ships which would replace 80% of the cost of the ship if sunk. So, what the heck are we achieving if you get most of your money back if the ship sinks?
We add a reason to go and risk PVP so people could actually be rewarded through loot. Because everything on the ship is lootable, thus rewarding the winner. Player who lost everything (and I'm purely proposing this on behalf of carebears or new players) is not fully punished. He still have means to recover means less rage quits.
Remember we want 1 dura not for a reason to take something away from another player, but to add rewarding experience, while not ruining the game for the looser.

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

I think ships of captains under the national flag should be assigned by the Admiralty. 1 durability. The access to the vessels and then would be relatively easy. According on your successes / xp in patrolls will have certain ships can redeem every few days.

Why 1 durability?
Especially because the captured vessels should have the same importance as other. In addition it lasts 1 would give more realism, more attachment to their ship (which would of course customized with figurehead and name).
The system would help redeem the players who play often and that can obviously lose some ships. It would at the same time comfortable for casual players. In any case, those who are always disappointing in patrolls will have less access to redeems.

In this system crafters produce ships for the Admiralty. They will have prize money for this and former craft / carrier stats, awards.

As for pirates and privateers, they have to buy the ships, they also obviously 1 dura. The crafters will build a part of also ships to be sold then.

I also see benefits for players who want to have a ship and fight with her, without wasting time chasing resources and to build ships.

[Gingerbeard]

On 21/02/2017 at 10:15 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Please no insurance either.....I"m pretty sure they didn't have insurance back than,

Insurance was created to protect merchants traveling between colonies to cover losses etc. Insurance was around then.... if anyone was interested/unsure

[jodgi]

On 22.2.2017 at 11:50 AM, koltes said:

This is the key point there with different quality ships. Thats why I want them to be much less expensive and still be competitive enough.

The trick is to have different quality ships be competitive. With upgrades like we have now, and especially if the quality of a ship limits the quality of upgrades, low quality ships will be far, far from competitive. I want what you want, though (I guess?): Even casuals should be able to beat powergrinders if they have skill.

On 22.2.2017 at 11:50 AM, koltes said:

Not sure what you mean by Tax?

To spend time having fun gameplay (PvP ship pew-pew) you have to spend time with boring gameplay (eco, trading, crafting, PvE grinding...).

23 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Sinking twice and your exceptional turns to MC.  Sink couple times more and you have a Fine one.  etc.

Fake feature. We've done this a long time and we've seen that people want the best stuff within a reasonable time or they won't PvP or play at all. Anything below golden quality is viewed as shit and is sold or broken up. This is not an opinion, it is how we are whether we like it or not.

Personally, the only limit I will accept due to lack of play time or unwillingness to engage in boring gameplay is being unable to buy, craft or crew big ships. 

23 hours ago, fox2run said:

If my frigates where more expensive, I would probably avoid risky OW actions and raids. No... I would not play at all. Now I play occasionally. But am bored as too few battles and too much waiting.

fox2run has done quite a bit of shitposting to get his point across, but he is right on the money.  Enable the thousands of potential PvP-heads out there and you have a server full of life.

 

11 hours ago, koltes said:

This gives players ability to enjoy crafting/economy if this is what they like doing

If we had as many eco fans as PvP fans we wouldn't be having this discussion. 1/10 of the players truly enjoy eco stuff as much as fighting yet eco stuff is currently a prerequisite for PvP. The math does not add up even if the numbers are pulled out of my ass.

 

11 hours ago, koltes said:

So you have bought from another player a blue frigate that cost 100k or even green frigate for 10k. Even though those ships are really disposable they have same wood characteristics. All they lacking is quality of upgrades so all upgrades on the blue ship are also blue. This actually gives lower rank / poorer guy a chance to play competitively.

You want people to want lower quality ships or upgrades, yet they don't want. You want them to believe lower quality upgrades are competitive with top upgrades, yet they don't believe, they've experienced the opposite.