28 posts in this topic

Seen a few of these posts but thought I might as well have a go :)

The aim of these ideas is to make the pirates a unique 'hardcore' pvp faction with interesting mechanics but also limited economic and military strength compared to the nations. These should also keep a nice balance of power between the industrial and pvp players in the nations.

 

Pirates

Economy

  • One economy building per player

  • 25% tax for all trades between pirates and other nations, including player to AI and player to player (bribes, mistrust etc)

 

Production/ships

  • Largest ship produced by pirates will be 5th rates

  • Cannot purchase ships from other nations, any ships larger than a 5th rate will have to be captured (1 dura)

 

Conquest

  • Pirates will be unable to participate in the current conquest mechanics

  • Nations will be unable to launch a port battle/flag against pirate ports

  • New 'control' system describing the difficulties nations had at the time keeping the peace in their colonies

 

Each national port/region will have a base 'control' score (CS) which will naturally decay over time. Local merchants (AI) will create hauling missions for national players to take goods to any ports that need it (similar to the current missions) to increase the CS for that region. If the CS for the region goes too low the nation then has 24 hours to increase the CS above the base score or the region will flip to the pirates.

To recover a pirate port (any) nation can send goods near the port to reduce the pirate CS. If the CS goes low enough and stays below the base CS for 24 hours the port will flip to the nation that delivered the most goods. Pirate CS is increased by pirates transporting their own goods to the ports or by capturing/sinking enemy (player) trade ships in the region.

These mechanics should create a situation where pirates become strongest on the borders or quiet areas of the national empires. Finding opportunities where nations are fighting each other and playing them off against each other. Small groups of pirates will be able to harass areas and capture a region or two by raiding ports and shipping trying to supply those ports – but find it extremely hard to hold onto those regions when an organised fleet of traders and warships try to take them back.

 

 

(If technically possible)

Pardons could be purchased by a pirate player at any free port which will allow them to join one of the nations for a fixed time (7/14/28 days). The cost of these pardons would depend on the rank and fame of the captain (see Zooloo's fame system for ideas) meaning a famous Curse would find it stupidly expensive. At the end of the time frame the captain would revert back to a pirate (with xp and fame penalties) and lose any of the advantages of being a national captain – 5 dura ships etc.

Any comments welcome :)

 

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19 minutes ago, Fellvred said:

Conquest

  • Pirates will be unable to participate in the current conquest mechanics

  • Nations will be unable to launch a port battle/flag against pirate ports

Well, I had made proposals for a more different and interesting PIRATE LIFE before.

Taking the Port Battles away from them, was not one of my proposals.
In history, there have been attacks by Pirates on towns, and I'd find it unfair, if the PIRATES could not have also some PBs.

Much more important IMHO would be, that they have to fight under realistic conditions,
without being sheltered in the "Battle Closed - Bubble".
Battles must be open, at least for some time after the initial attack.
Everything else is just fake.

There could also be some advantages for PIRATES, like big NPC trade ships or even fleets, full of good stuff,
which will be told to the PIRATES by bribed governors.

I like the idea, that they have to capture ships - but they should have at least 3 Duras then, as a PIRATE-player exception, IMHO.

 

Edited by Olham
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24 minutes ago, Olham said:

Much more important IMHO would be, that they have to fight under realistic conditions,
without being sheltered in the "Battle Closed - Bubble".
Battles must be open, at least for some time after the initial attack.
Everything else is just fake.

Because teleporting from half way accross the Carribbean and sailing 12 hours in OW time compression to join a battle that's been going on for 20 minutes in battle time compression isn't "fake?" :) We make compromises on reality to implement what is fun. And always-open battles, where bait ships can be used for gank squads emerging from ports or battle screens where they've been hiding isn't "fun."

I'm not saying there's not more compromises that can be made to support your desire to gank but leaving their battles open or giving pirates special RoE different from the rest of the server isn't one I'm willing to support.

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Weird propositions. I dislike the tax (Pirates kinda sell their loot on the black market, why put some weird tax on them?)

and 5th rate rule, it would make kind of a nation of frigates and shallow ships only, too big limitation, their nation would suffer a lot from that.

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4 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Weird propositions. I dislike the tax (Pirates kinda sell their loot on the black market, why put some weird tax on them?)

and 5th rate rule, it would make kind of a nation of frigates and shallow ships only, too big limitation, their nation would suffer a lot from that.

Ports that Nassau transported and sold to would buy the contraband goods at a huge discount, therefore the rats would not make as much profit as if one nation bought from another nation. I wouldn't see it as a tax, but a blackmarket tariff.

A small fleet of frigs can cap higher rate ships very easy. It wouldn't take much time for them to be in SoLs anyway.

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9 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Weird propositions. I dislike the tax (Pirates kinda sell their loot on the black market, why put some weird tax on them?)

and 5th rate rule, it would make kind of a nation of frigates and shallow ships only, too big limitation, their nation would suffer a lot from that.

I think the tax is a bit much and make it 4th rates, but make it other nations can't keep captured SOL's.  They can keep 4th rates and below, but if you capture a SOL it goes to the Admiralty and they get paid.  Only pirates get to keep these ships. 

Make Kidds the capital and pirates can produce and build there.  They should have a raid system not a conquest system where they raid a port and can craft in that port while it's raided and get the region bonus.  Once raid is over it goes back to the owner of the region.  All production stops while that port is raided.   Maybe give pirates involved with the raid to get a pool of those items that would of been produced as loot.  

Also make Mort a neutral zone for all.  The port is green zone like Pitt's was but for all nations and pirates, but any one from any nation can use the other ports at there own risk to produce the common goods.  This helps out the one region nations that still can produce stuff, makes it a major trade hub and well risky pirate waters for trade too.

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26 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

A small fleet of frigs can cap higher rate ships very easy. It wouldn't take much time for them to be in SoLs anyway.

Yep just ask a lot of the Nationals on PvP2 about how they have lost there 1st rates on the OW.  It wasn't all ways a iron fleet of ours that took them down.  I'll admit we been using 2nd rates a lot for that, but with a group of 4/5th rates.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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Limiting bigger ships just to capturing for pirates would lead into abusive alt accounts. Sir Texas suggested something that would fix the alt abusing problem.

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18 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Weird propositions. I dislike the tax (Pirates kinda sell their loot on the black market, why put some weird tax on them?)

and 5th rate rule, it would make kind of a nation of frigates and shallow ships only, too big limitation, their nation would suffer a lot from that.

The tax is meant to represent the bribes/lower rates pirates would receive on the black market - so trading would not be a viable full time occupation.

The whole point was to make pirates a unique faction - not a 'nation' per se but a loose collection of captains who could cause havoc in the quieter areas of the empires (like the caribbean) but would find it difficult to stand up to a concerted attack on their ports. Rather than having 'national' waters and front lines against the nations this would make pirate locations much more fluid.

I'm not an expert but historically it was rarer for pirates to have complete control over a port. Even in places like Port Royal you had Jamaican governors turning to pirates to defend against the spanish/french.

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Taxes as opposed to proper smuggling with nation players in "free ports" ? Buildings, when most of pirates were running from plantations, mines and most were dedicated to sea and being professional seamen ? No attacks onto pirate ports ?

Pirates to be unique must be the hard choice, the one where the career matters and not how much grinding is done.

One captain, one ship, a crew. And shares per crew. And infamy for the crew and the captain and the ship. And no holding back any thoughts of a safe life unless the player choses to end the career and start a new one :)

Pros: freedom of action. Renown/Infamy counter. all free ports are Capitals.

Cons: One ship. One life.

How does this sound for Outlaws ?

As for Pirate Republics let's let it run as a "nation".

 

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Let rats, the to be introduced non nation building rats, be able to build an outpost anywhere.  And limit them to lvl 1 buildings.  

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18 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

As for Pirate Republics let's let it run as a "nation".

 

The problem is no matter how the Devs make it folks will complain that we are nothing more than just nats with black flags.  That is why I proposed a Privateer system for them and if your not actively working for a nation than your an outlaw/pirate like how it was in real life.

But the devs kidna shot that down in that last Q&A thing as they answer they will never be privateers they will be pirates...

 

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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20 hours ago, Wraith said:

...leaving their battles open or giving pirates special RoE different from the rest of the server isn't one I'm willing to support.

What is RoE (I hate all these shortages)?

I didn't mean to keep the battles open forever - that wouldn't be fair in days of TeamSpeak.
But they should be open long enough, that all ships, which were in sight of the beginning battle,
could sail to the Sabre sign and enter too.

I am striktly against ANY false advantages given to Pirates, only to make them more happy.
They should fight under almost "normal Pirate conditions" without any 'wormholes'.
And so prove, that they are TRUE Pirates.
 

Edited by Olham
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RoE = Rules of Engagement

 

If I'm not mistaken.

Edited by Jœrnson

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Arrrrrrrr

All I see here is bunch of trader captains whining that pirates stole their candy :P

You can't give pirates all the cons but forget to give them all the pros:

-approach victims under false flag

-20 pirates > 20 regular crew in boarding

-merchant captains being scared to dead of infamous pirates (depending on pirate rank) and more likely to surrender without fight

-damping your cargo into see before fight will enrage pirate captain so much that he will impale you on his main mast so hard that your steam account will delete itself

-changes to captured ships dura

-changes to ROE

-etc etc etc...

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I had thought, for the outposts, to have some hidden ports like Kidd's around the map. It might not be catchable and serve as capitals for pirates. They could craft/modify their ships only here with some bonuses/penalties for ships ...

I do not know if it's feasible, just a suggestion.

Example of the location of these ports

Captuxre.thumb.PNG.a4089695b146ea0043527ddd15cfa436.PNG

Edited by Nick the cursed
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4 hours ago, Zoky said:

Arrrrrrrr

All I see here is bunch of trader captains whining that pirates stole their candy :P...

What I see are people wanting to be called pirates who also want the benefits of having a nation. You really should be willing to take a hard course if you want the freedoms of total independence.

 

Quote

You can't give pirates all the cons but forget to give them all the pros:

I agree with this. There are a lot of benefits to being a pirate. Sailing 4th and 5th rates isn't one of them. Rarely were pirate groups large enough to crew one, let alone have the facilities to maintain them.

 

Quote

-approach victims under false flag

As late as the mid 1800s this was allowable for all nations under the accepted rules of engagement. You needed to change to your nations own flag before you started firing, but approaching under even your enemy's flag was acceptable.

 

Quote

-merchant captains being scared to dead of infamous pirates (depending on pirate rank) and more likely to surrender without fight

I you pirates actually earn a PvP reputation instead on depending on overwhelming numbers, you'll have that on your own. Who going to be afraid of someone who isn't hunting alone: you're just another ganker that way.

 

Quote

-damping your cargo into see before fight will enrage pirate captain so much that he will impale you on his main mast so hard that your steam account will delete itself

I have to agree. This is just bad form. But then so is gathering large numbers of pirates to take on one small trade ship. If you're going to game the game expect others to do the same.

 

Quote

-changes to captured ships dura

I see no reason to change this. Every one has the same issue -- why do you want to have an advantage just for pirates?

 

Quote

-changes to ROE

One set should suffice for everyone. I couldn't tell if you were complaining that there were differences or that there weren't.

 

So all that said, simply put, being a pirate should have limitations brought on by the nature of the occupation. There was never a viable pirate nation and to make one is breaking the expectation made when the devs originally said this was a "historic" based game. They never had shipyards, they never built ships. Rarely, if ever, did they sail anything a 5th rate or larger.  They did have friendly governors and ports, Port Royal, Tortuga, Galveston and others, but they only worked until the Royal Navie started cleaning up the Caribbean.

Pirates weren't builders, they were plunderers. They didn't take and hold cities, the left them minute they heard the real war ships were coming with marines. Why are so many player "pirate" afraid to actually play the role? You want to be a pirate, then act like one.

P.S. Kidd's Island, by the way, would be the perfect spot for centering the pirate "nation" we are getting saddled with. Although I'm sure it will be said it's too far away from the action.

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@Challenge Why so serious son? Did I gank your cookie or something? :huh:

1. What benefit does pirates have from being a nation? We have no ally to help us attack our enemies. We have no ally to help us defend our ports. We have no ally to use his ports for production of rare mats. Saying that pirates benefit from being a nation is mental, if anything being a nation is a weight around our necks!

2. I'm perfectly fine with pirates being limited to max 5 rate. 

3. Time and again you say that pirates are cowards who only gank to justify your arguments. I dare you to say that to my in-game face you...you trader lover :lol: But seriously you can't blame pirates for doing what everyone else is doing too. Its hypocritical from you.

4. What I meant was that currently captured ships are useless because of 1 dura rule. If you intend to limit pirate shipbuilding then we need to introduce changes to captured ship mechanic. And all improvements on that front should be universal - same rules for all nation and pirates!

5. Again, I'm not proposing different ROE for pirates only, I'm proposing more PvP friendly ROE that is same for all nation and pirates.

6. #nofleets

7. bacon with eggs

All in all, when devs do introduce new pirate mechanic they better do complete transformation with both pros and cons of being a pirate, and not a half-assed job like current one. 

And I have one announcement: Tomorrow I'm returning from vacation. After 40 days at brothel I'm ready to sail under black once again! Charles Vane will be avenged!

Edited by Zoky
typos
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No, Zoky, my cookies are fine -- it was my ice cream cone.

1) Free Ports have no player resource buildings. National ports do. And yes, that means I don't think you should have pirates producing resources -- as I said they plundered. If you want to call yourself a pirate: Be a bloody Pirate.

2) Cool, we agree on something.

3) I do not think all pirates are cowards who must hunt in packs to feel superior. And I don't think it should be done by anyone else either. I'm not referring to small groups occasionally teaming up to fight as ganking -- I'm referring to sitting out of reach or view with a few scouts waiting to have a hoard show up to attack an unarmed trade ships. Yes, if you sail in the OW with an unescorted, unarmed trade ship you deserve to be dinner -- but not by people unviewable in the OW.

Since pirates are rarely unarmed, being jumped by two or three Nats should be expected as well. Against all flags was more than a movie title.

4) Let me start by saying... All ships should be 1 dura. I'm not fond of arcade games. DiD! Actually, that's all I have to say on this point.

5) I wasn't sure about that one so yeah, it going to be difficult to work out, but LOS is my guide here. If you can see it you should have the chance to reach the fight. Suck in everything to the "horizon" with relational positioning. Run whichever way you want. If you aren't at sea, and in a position to view the start -- you are out.

6) I don't #tag.

7) No, Eggs with bacon.

I fully agree they need to do more than say: "Okay, let's see what you think of this one."

And finally... Which server are you on.  I started on PvP 1 and some bullies smashed my ice cream cone. I tried PvP 2, and more bullies ... well let's just say they ruined my cornflakes. Almost quit, but went to PvE to learn to sail better. I'll be back on 2; I just need to get up enough for a decent ship on that server. Then we should find a place I can tell you to your pirate face. (I love a challenge :rolleyes:)

 

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I'm in PvP EU 1, and while I do gank from time to time, and exclusively in PvP event zone, I always try to stick to "The Code" B). I would never, under normal circumstances, attack small traders when I'm in reno, pirate frig etc. I would never chase small navy ship either.  And I have advice for you - never ever trust backstabbing french on PvP 1. I learned it the hard way :lol:

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On 13.2.2017 at 1:34 PM, Zoky said:

All I see here is bunch of trader captains whining that pirates stole their candy :P

Nonsense - many PIRATES here are the biggest whiners of all; kinda "false Baby-PIRATES", crying "Ah, don't take my soother away!"
Whenever someone asks to put the conditions for Pirates right, the whining and crying is deafening.

 

Quote

-approach victims under false flag

-20 pirates > 20 regular crew in boarding

-merchant captains being scared to dead of infamous pirates (depending on pirate rank) and more likely to surrender without fight

-changes to captured ships dura

 

Agreed, good points - I would like these - if we could also keep the battles open for at least 7 minutes.

Edited by Olham

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12 hours ago, Zoky said:

5. Again, I'm not proposing different ROE for pirates only, I'm proposing more PvP friendly ROE that is same for all nation and pirates.

7. bacon with eggs

All in all, when devs do introduce new pirate mechanic they better do complete transformation with both pros and cons of being a pirate, 
and not a half-assed job like current one.

Good one - I like bacon! :)

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59 minutes ago, Zoky said:

I'm in PvP EU 1, and while I do gank from time to time, and exclusively in PvP event zone, I always try to stick to "The Code" B). I would never, under normal circumstances, attack small traders when I'm in reno, pirate frig etc. I would never chase small navy ship either.  And I have advice for you - never ever trust backstabbing french on PvP 1. I learned it the hard way :lol:

hmmm good selection of 200+ crew ya harr...How to keep them lads happy for days and days without plunder...

Reckon anything under a thousand pieces per hand at the end of a cruise would end in crew leaving to another more successful venture ;)

That's how Pirate crew management should be. By shares profit. No shiny stuff no crew will stick to the capn'

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Can someone explain the current Pirate Mechanic, or point me in the right direction so I can read up on it.

 

Norfolk.

 

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1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Can someone explain the current Pirate Mechanic, or point me in the right direction so I can read up on it.

 

Norfolk.

 

There is no separate pirate mechanic currently. We are a nation that can't be ally to anyone. In everything else we are same as nationals.

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