Wesreidau

Greatly Increase Contract Cap

21 posts in this topic

We currently have a maximum of five contracts per player, and are all flooded with dozens and dozens of stacks of materials or goods which we'd like to sell, but don't want to waste a contract on. For example, I'd sell tobacco and sugar and live oak and gold and rum and iron and planks and oak logs and fir logs and bermuda cedar logs and bermuda cedar frame parts and carriages and cables and hemp and tar...

But I only have five contracts, so I can only sell five at a time, or buy five at a time, which is very prohibitive for my ability to engage in trade. Unless I can put bids out for every material I need, or to sell every material I have, I'm really only using the market at a limited efficiency. And with the diminished active player base, this is severely impairing our ability to use the market.

I propose the limit on contracts be moved to twenty-five, fifty, or even (with a Merchant perk) one hundred. Contract limits didn't prevent price fixing and gouging, and I'd even think contributed to it, since it limits how many price signals can go out into the marketplace. We need a free flow of information about who wants to sell or buy what in order to have a functional economy.

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The limit is actually 10. But I agree that even 10 contracts is too low. There should be no limit for selling. I think the best solution should be to put a limit of contract just for buying. Therefore, the inflation would be not so high and new player can craft easier than now.

Edited by n0el

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There should be a benefit for outposts and also reasons to upgrade your outpost with for example a Trading post so that they can handle your affairs when your not there/online. Meaning a increased contract availability in those ports in which you are represented and even more benefits in those where you have upgraded your outpost to cover a merchantman to aid in your affairs.

 

This is a feature that hopefully will be added later when the devs manage to take a complete overhaul on trading to find a system that works for both the super active and those who play casually with reasonable profits depending on time and money spent when trading.

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Well there's nothing wrong in giving both casuals and hardcore the freedom to do howevermuch economic activity they want. Where's the problem in a casual placing a few dozen small buy and sell contracts while a 'hardcore' places a few dozen large contracts. No disadvantage. If anything, the casual is now disadvantaged. He doesn't have crafting alts and the ability to constantly check the markets.

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Weisreidau, making big contract does not work really well. With big contracts your not flexible with the price. The prices change all the time. If you put a big contract, let's say 20,000 iron for 300 gold/piece. And then the prices drops to 100 gold/piece. Your contract won't be sold in a long time. If you cancel the contract to reduce the price, you loose a big amount of gold by the commission. Therefore, it is much more interesting to have a lot of small contracts with different material or to sell it in different towns the same product. But this is sadly not possible due to the limit of 10 contracts. The consequence are that I got a huge inventory of products which I don't need. And I will never sell them because I don't have enough contracts to sell it.

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On 12/11/2016 at 7:45 AM, n0el said:

Weisreidau, making big contract does not work really well. With big contracts your not flexible with the price. The prices change all the time. If you put a big contract, let's say 20,000 iron for 300 gold/piece. And then the prices drops to 100 gold/piece. Your contract won't be sold in a long time. If you cancel the contract to reduce the price, you loose a big amount of gold by the commission. Therefore, it is much more interesting to have a lot of small contracts with different material or to sell it in different towns the same product. But this is sadly not possible due to the limit of 10 contracts. The consequence are that I got a huge inventory of products which I don't need. And I will never sell them because I don't have enough contracts to sell it.

This is what my proposal aims to fix, not the total size of each contract, but the total number of contracts you can open.

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The limit on contracts stops people manipulating the entire market.

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Rather than changing contract caps we need to have NPC traders that make long distance trade runs, to move products on the open world between people producing them in certain ports and those people with buy contracts at others. The reality is there aren't enough people to support a player-driven production/consumption/trading economy, and one way to tweak it is to support player-only production but do it so goods can flow between producers and consumers without the necessity of player traders (and at the same time not precluding it).

If these goods flowed on the open world via NPC traders then that opens up doors for economic warfare through blockades of enemy ship production ports, etc. It supports new players capping AI traders for lucrative, player-produced goods that they can then divert or sail back to harbor to sell to buy contracts of their choice, etc.

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3 hours ago, Fletch67 said:

The limit on contracts stops people manipulating the entire market.

Yah and you still get bid wars and lock outs that folks do.  Kinda wish I could pick who I fill contracts with and who not.  Just cause some one has the highest prices doesn't mean I want to fill his contract.  Why would I fill a nations contract I'm at war with over a friendly contract?   Maybe a good reputation system would be instore for Traders and well every one.  Unless they have a good reputation with our nation that trader can't do the contract in a nation they are at war with.  Puts a true meaning of why your using a smuggler flag.  Even during war some merchants traded with all sides.

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23 hours ago, Wraith said:

Rather than changing contract caps we need to have NPC traders that make long distance trade runs, to move products on the open world between people producing them in certain ports and those people with buy contracts at others. The reality is there aren't enough people to support a player-driven production/consumption/trading economy, and one way to tweak it is to support player-only production but do it so goods can flow between producers and consumers without the necessity of player traders (and at the same time not precluding it).

If these goods flowed on the open world via NPC traders then that opens up doors for economic warfare through blockades of enemy ship production ports, etc. It supports new players capping AI traders for lucrative, player-produced goods that they can then divert or sail back to harbor to sell to buy contracts of their choice, etc.

+10000

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On 12.1.2017 at 6:37 PM, Wraith said:

Rather than changing contract caps we need to have NPC traders that make long distance trade runs, to move products on the open world between people producing them in certain ports and those people with buy contracts at others. The reality is there aren't enough people to support a player-driven production/consumption/trading economy, and one way to tweak it is to support player-only production but do it so goods can flow between producers and consumers without the necessity of player traders (and at the same time not precluding it).

If these goods flowed on the open world via NPC traders then that opens up doors for economic warfare through blockades of enemy ship production ports, etc. It supports new players capping AI traders for lucrative, player-produced goods that they can then divert or sail back to harbor to sell to buy contracts of their choice, etc.

I like the idea, this would be much better than npcs buying/selling stuff. Problems could be that there needs to be a transport fee that would limit player traders. So the fee shouldnt be too low. On the other side its safe to buy from a player trader, the goods cant be sunk. Could also be frustrating to loose deliveries multiple times in a row, but it could be an option to hire additional warships as convoy. I guess the main point are technical problems, and the amount of work this would need.

Regarding player only eco, and in general, we should assume that after release the servers have optimal population and all other mechanics are working/balanced as intended. Also this would bring lots af traders back to NA. The problem is we couldnt test it before release. On the other hand, its easy to do statistics to set up basic balancing and to predict the effect of adjustments. 

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On 1/12/2017 at 3:20 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Yah and you still get bid wars and lock outs that folks do.  Kinda wish I could pick who I fill contracts with and who not.  Just cause some one has the highest prices doesn't mean I want to fill his contract.  Why would I fill a nations contract I'm at war with over a friendly contract?   Maybe a good reputation system would be instore for Traders and well every one.  Unless they have a good reputation with our nation that trader can't do the contract in a nation they are at war with.  Puts a true meaning of why your using a smuggler flag.  Even during war some merchants traded with all sides.

I agree.

Every merchant should have the "freedom of choice" to whom they want to sell to or buy from. Just because someone has a high bid on product doesn't mean we should have to sell it to them. Could be opposing warring nation or their reputation.

Same goes for the "locked out" low price for product. Personally, I wouldn't want to sell to someone who low-balls product only to purposefully "lock out" that resource from other sellers/buyers,

I would rather like to be able to scroll thru ALL possible bids for buy/sale of said resource/product. It's already being done with Ships for sale. Why not for resources? (but without the expiration dates).

Freedom of choice.:)

 

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13 minutes ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

I agree.

Every merchant should have the "freedom of choice" to whom they want to sell to or buy from. Just because someone has a high bid on product doesn't mean we should have to sell it to them. Could be opposing warring nation or their reputation.

Same goes for the "locked out" low price for product. Personally, I wouldn't want to sell to someone who low-balls product only to purposefully "lock out" that resource from other sellers/buyers,

I would rather like to be able to scroll thru ALL possible bids for buy/sale of said resource/product. It's already being done with Ships for sale. Why not for resources? (but without the expiration dates).

Freedom of choice.:)

 

That and I know it's a trend to out bid some one so they can't buy resources.  Hell we have done it for war supplies traded at kids.  We know it's there alts building them, but they put in a contract for it to trade it.   With who ever is going to enter with a trader and bomb it.  They also out bid us and we done it too.  Just to lock out that resource from others of the opposing nation.    I like the fact they are adding clear of contracts that are over 15 days old.  Some of them I see on the market are pretty old.

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1 hour ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

I agree.

Every merchant should have the "freedom of choice" to whom they want to sell to or buy from. Just because someone has a high bid on product doesn't mean we should have to sell it to them. Could be opposing warring nation or their reputation.

Same goes for the "locked out" low price for product. Personally, I wouldn't want to sell to someone who low-balls product only to purposefully "lock out" that resource from other sellers/buyers,

I would rather like to be able to scroll thru ALL possible bids for buy/sale of said resource/product. It's already being done with Ships for sale. Why not for resources? (but without the expiration dates).

Freedom of choice.:)

 

I dont think we need this. A few more players and without infinite gold this wont be a problem.

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I disagree Fargo,. More players would help, but even with lower gold you can raise a bid high enough to lock up a market.

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The gold inflation in the game is definitely clouding the issue.  When and IF its gets locked down to a reasonable faucet:drain ratio, there would be more risk/reward to attempting to lock out a market.  Not that it isn't a viable tactic for economic warfare, but it isn't a sustainable operation over the long-term.

Limiting what I and other market inclined players can do economically, limits enjoyment and log-ins for me.  It isn't every day that I can log in and spend a few hours sailing/pvping.  I still want to play the game and help grease the wheels of the economy with supply and trading.  Letting me and other market players fill that econ vacuum allows others that don't enjoy the economic part, to spend more time doing what they want to do. 

I realize at the moment the game is only about sailing and the economy is an afterthought add-on.  It is my wish that the game will some day include a vibrant functioning economy.  Letting players enjoy the parts of the game that interests them will benefit all players of the game.  Limiting contracts, multiplies the need for alts... perpetuating the fear/boogeyman aspect that it seems many players have towards the skeleton economy that currently exists. 

Edited by Kiefer Cain
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I look at this thread and then think if we could suggest dynamics in production instead of linearity.

You know, veins of rich metals ending, new ones being found somewhere, draughts and low crops production, scarcity of luxury european goods due to european wars, etc etc etc

We have it easy and monotone, as opposed to a complex trading symphony :)

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Kiefer, I'm a trader as well. I like building up the resources for crafting that i can get and trading wihth other players who have stock piled what I haven't. I'll even sell them to the shop if I find a resource I need or want more. I think that's important for any resource game.

I also don't think the OP and resource building limits are helpful. Limiting the amount of cash in the game, then making each new OP considerable more expensive will go a lot farther toward building an economy than a hard cap. Not everyone want to trade, craft and/or fight. (Don't understand it myself.) Most of my OPs are for production, but I needed two so I could be in the Free Port trading centers favored by traders. Not nearly enough coverage to sail across the Caribbean -- I want a really big trading network.

 

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I have played other games with unlimited contracts. Rich people simply by everything in one place and sell it all back at a higher rate inflating prices. A limit on contracts means you have to specialise in a certain market area and cannot dominate the entire market.

Edited by Fletch67

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The only thing that inflates prices, is the unlimited (uncontrolled) flow of currency into the game.  I, too, play a game with unlimited contracts/listings, the only time the prices inflated was when the currency was allowed to flow unrestricted.  The only thing that introduces inflation is when currency is allowed to be created at rates that would make a Zimbabwean blush.  Limit the flow of currency, and you limit the ability of single players from dominating a market for any length of time.  I could dominate an entire market for a few days, but soon enough, without some artificial entity preventing others from entering, others will hear about it, and move to undercut.  Until the game prevents players from entering a market, there is nothing that prevents a player(s) from breaking a stranglehold.  Its the access to unlimited gold that enables the inflation. 

Free the contracts, limit the gold.   

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